When you start with pick #42 in the draft. It is hard to expect a major contribution from draft picks.
Sure it can happen. However, most rookies need a year to figure things out. The transition from college to the pros is a big leap in competition.
Most college players who go pro also typically leave college early. Some positions are harder to make that transition.
This year Free Agency is where we need to find fixes. I am not going into the "cap thing." I will let the experts take care of that.
However, who we sign and how we spend will be interesting to say the least.
The needs are obvious. Start at DT and edge. Then depending on what Berry sees as priorities receiver, linebacker, safety.
The free agent names are out there. We know who they are. Now it becomes who do we target and what freeagent decides he wants to play for the Browns.
The first decision Berry faces is how to spend? Should we spread it around 3 or 4 players. Or, sign a high dollar guy and add some less expensive role players.
IMO we need one bonafide DT starter. We can add some backups so we have a four man rotation. At DE we have Myles, Alex Wright, Isaiah Thomas. We need a guy. What guy for how much is tied to how else we spend and who we can get.
At linebacker it must be decided if we will bring Taki and Walker back. Both coming off injury. I think it is wide open as to what is decided.
What do we do at safety? Delpit, D'Anthony Bell, are it. We have Bubba Bolden on IR. So, we need at least some depth. Maybe a starter.
Right now I am leaning on pick #42 to get a receiver. The FA's are really expensive. We have recent draft picks Bell and Woods starting year two. Maybe they make that big jump in year two? If we could a vet cheap on a short deal maybe.
I think the draft this year is about development. Also, I would consider trading this years picks in rounds four and down for higher rounds next year.
Parris Campbell, A'Shawn Robinson, Julian Love are the guys I'd like to see us bring in. Not sure what to do about Edge. Arden Key is tempting on the field, but I don't know about the money he's likely to get and off the field.
If Adetomiwa Adebawore is there when we're picking, he's probably who I'm taking. Where we're picking I don't see a receiver who is going to force himself into the field over Cooper or DPJ. While there are some enticing traits, they mostly look like they'll face a steep learning curve.
I might draft DL with our first 3 picks. Maybe even draft a TE before I would go WR, depending on who's there when.
Get a traits receiver later and maybe he develops. Or just keep trying to develop the ones we have.
What we do in the draft I think will depend on free agency.
We need one pillar at DT. That to my way of thinking is key. Hargrave or someone close would do the trick.
Then we can add role players. The philosophy is rotate four guys at DT and DE. Keep a fresh guy in there. Then in certain situations go with your top four at both positions.
I think at the rest of "needs" we can get guys who do not have to be stars. Solid role players. Guys who can step in there and do the job adequately.
What we do in the draft I think will depend on free agency.
And while that's true to an extent, Berry has been known to double dip at positions using both FA's and draft picks in the same draft, at the same position.
Browns offseason: Will Andrew Berry double dip again?
Free agency and the NFL draft have hit on the same position the last three years
While we can never predict what any team will do in an offseason, their history gives us some understanding. For the Cleveland Browns, this is GM Andrew Berry’s fourth year running the personnel department. While Kevin Stefanski’s coaching staff has seen turnover on defense and special teams, Berry is steady in his role.
Over his first three offseasons, we have seen a significant amount of double dipping from Berry. Instead of free agency wiping a position of his draft board, it has often led to a selection at that position in the ensuing draft. 2020 Browns Offseason
Signed Jack Conklin, drafted Jedrick Wills for the offensive line Signed Austin Hooper, drafted Harrison Bryant at tight end Signed Karl Joseph, drafted Grant Delpit at safety Signed Andrew Billings, drafted Jordan Elliott for the interior of the defensive line Signed BJ Goodson, drafted Jacob Phillips at linebacker
2021 Browns Offseason
Signed Troy Hill, drafted Greg Newsome II at cornerback Signed Anthony Walker, drafted Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah for the linebacker room Signed Malik Jackson, drafted Tommy Togiai again to address the interior defensive line Signed John Johnson III, drafted Richard LeCounte at safety
2022 Browns Offseason
Traded for Amari Cooper and signed Jakeem Grant, drafted David Bell at receiver Signed Taven Bryan, drafted Perrion Winfrey to once again try to beef up the defensive line Traded for Chase Winovich, drafted Alex Wright and Isaiah Thomas for the defensive end room
2023 Browns Offseason
Cleveland’s roster is not as bereft of talent as some would have you think but still has needs on the defensive line, once again, and either needs to bring back a few linebackers or add new ones. The safety position, with Johnson’s future up in the air and Ronnie Harrison a free agent again, is another area that Berry could double up.
With only David Njoku established at tight end, signing a free agent and drafting another tight end would make sense as well.
Where do you think Berry could double up this offseason?
Agent's Take: Target prices for Jessie Bates III, other intriguing defensive players with expiring contracts Asking prices for players who will be unrestricted free agents or were designated as franchise players By Joel Corry 53 mins ago
Target prices for 10 offensive players with expiring contracts were covered in an article earlier in the week. The focus now turns to the other side of the ball.
Things will get moving March 13 when the exclusive negotiating rights NFL teams have had with their impending free agents ends. The agents of prospective unrestricted free agents are allowed to negotiate with teams beginning at 12 p.m. ET on March 13 until 3:59:59 p.m. ET on March 15. Prospective UFAs who don't have an agent can also negotiate with front office executives of teams. Players can't sign deals with new clubs until the 2023 league year and free agency officially begin at 4 p.m. ET. A player's ability to re-sign with his current club is allowed during the period.
As a reminder, it was my responsibility while working on the agent side to create target or asking prices for the firm's clients headed toward free agency regardless of whether I was the lead agent. In that spirit, I have set target prices with total contract value, overall guarantees, amount fully guaranteed at signing and first three years compensation (when applicable) for 10 intriguing defensive players who will be unrestricted free agents or were designated as a franchise players.
Players don't necessarily sign for their target prices because free agency is a fluid process where adaptations must be made to changing market conditions. Some players are disappointed in free agency's outcome because their market never develops for a variety of reasons (age, unrealistic contract demands, supply and demand at a playing position, etc.).
Remember the target or asking prices for these players may be on the high side and aren't necessarily what their actual deals will be.
DT Daron Payne ($18.937 million franchise tag) Contract package: $91 million/4 years ($22.75 million per year) Overall guarantees: $70 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $47.5 million
S Jessie Bates III Contract package: $73 million/4 years ($18.25 million per year) Overall guarantees: $37.5 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $37.5 million
LB Tremaine Edmunds Contract package: $92.5 million/5 years ($18.5 million per year) Overall guarantees: $57 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $41.5 million First three years: $57 million
DT Javon Hargrave Contract package: $60 million/3 years ($20 million per year) Overall guarantees: $42 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $42 million
CB Jamel Dean Contract package: $72 million/4 years ($18 million per year) Overall guarantees: $50 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $40 million
CB James Bradberry Contract package: $43.5 million/3 years ($14.5 million per year) Overall guarantees: $30 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $30 million
S Chauncey Gardner-Johnson Contract package: $40 million/3 years ($13,333,333 per year) Overall guarantees: $27.5 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $27.5 million
LB LaVonte David Contract package: $25 million/2 years ($12.5 million per year) Overall guarantees: $20 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $17.5 million
S Jordan Poyer Contract package: $33 million/3 years ($11 million per year) Overall guarantees: $22 million Fully guaranteed at signing: $18 million
EDGE Marcus Davenport Contract package: $12 million/1 year (worth up to $15 million with incentives) Overall guarantees: $12 million ($10.5 million as signing bonus with up to four voiding/dummy years for salary cap purposes)
From what I have read this draft is supposed to be deep at TE.
I think they will go BPA in the draft. So, who and when could be anywhere.
Free agency will be about needs. Clearly from the coaching changes and the results of last season. We have to improve run defense.
There are guys to get. There are options. The question is who and how much?
Linebacker will be worth watching. I like Walker but he is coming off injury. I think we will sign him. Taki? If he is healthy. We know what he can do. So, there is that.
I am curious about safety. They did not want JJ3 back. Bates is a lot of money for safety. He is a good player. But I don't think we can spend big on two positions. I would vote for a DT to spend the most on.
Receiver? I am uncertain what we will do. I think we can get a a good receiver at #42. A guy who could play right away.
After that BPA on guys we hope to develop. I think we will sign 3 maybe four guys in FA.
I agree w/you about FA being about needs. I also agree that we will probably make one high dollar signing, but will probably find less expensive guys after that due to the cap. You and I have agreed about improving the DL in FA and drafting a WR or maybe two. However, Theilen is an interesting guy. I don't think he will break the bank and I am not sure he sees us as a contender, but he would fit well in that 2 or 3 role for us. He can still get open. Makes contested catches. And has good hands. He is also very intelligent against zone coverages. I got the feeling [no proof] that our WRs struggled to create separation and/or get open last year. Teams usually rolled their coverage to Cooper, so that should have freed up more opportunities for the other guys.
I don't think our big dollars will be spent on the Edge, but if we use free agency to bring in a guy [we almost have to] there are a few guys that might be worthy of being part of the rotation.
Justin Houston [Ravens,] Frank Clark [KC, but might be too expensive,] Ogbonnia Okoronkwo [Texans,] Charles Omenihu [49ers,] Melvin Ingram [Miami,] are possibilities.
Really? I have to admit. I would be shocked if we signed him.
It would be weird no matter how you slice and dice it. Makes no difference what side of the fence you are on with Odell.
Odell is not a on time precise route runner. BM needed that. Bad mojo.
DW is not BM. He is not a one read, pre-snap, get the ball out guy. He looks post snap at making bigger plays downfield. He may come back to check downs or, run it.
DW and Odell may actually be a good fit. Odell does know how to get open.
I agree w/you about FA being about needs. I also agree that we will probably make one high dollar signing, but will probably find less expensive guys after that due to the cap. You and I have agreed about improving the DL in FA and drafting a WR or maybe two. However, Theilen is an interesting guy. I don't think he will break the bank and I am not sure he sees us as a contender, but he would fit well in that 2 or 3 role for us. He can still get open. Makes contested catches. And has good hands. He is also very intelligent against zone coverages. I got the feeling [no proof] that our WRs struggled to create separation and/or get open last year. Teams usually rolled their coverage to Cooper, so that should have freed up more opportunities for the other guys.
I kind of feel like Thielen would work out about as well as Dwayne Bowe here. I think the injuries and age are catching up to him. He benefited a lot from teams focusing on Jefferson. I'd rather take a shot on Parris Campbell if the cost is reasonable. I imagine Campbell would be more amenable to come to Cleveland than some FAs as an Akron kid. That and I think his skill set fits what we're missing better and would help open things up for everyone else.
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today It's funny in a years time how the mood And atmosphere of a message board can change. Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in Crisis mode. I never seen such division over A average player.
I think Beckham will want to play for a Team that is ready for a SB now or a team That has already been like the Chiefs.
FA WRs are tricky to evaluate. Most of them Are past their prime and essentially role players At this stage in their careers. And some are Allowed to hit the open market cause they Never reached their potential. And some just never got a chance or much opportunity With their prior teams.
The WR market looks average at best this year. But that Falcons WR looks interesting. His name is Zacca something. He played in their 3 WR sets. He is a burner deep threat guy. But the Falcons QB situation was so poor last year His opportunities were limited last year.
The great thing about Moore besides his age(23) and tremendous upside potential is the fact that he’d cost the Browns only $1.472 million in 2023 and $1.879 million in 2024 unless they reward him with a new deal. With 4.35 speed, he’d be a tremendous bargain and weapon at that price, and could probably be had for a reasonable draft pick.
These are the types of deals where you know what you can get. He has two years of tape. He fell out with the Jets.
Moore, who will only be 23 on March 27, had a promising rookie year, with 538 yards and five touchdowns. But he dropped off last year with Zach Wilson at the helm, catching 37 passes for 446 yards and one TD.
Wilson was a failure at finding receivers.
This guy could be good. I am not up on him myself but for a reasonable pick say a fourth. It could pay off big.
OBJ was being courted by the Cowboys, Bills, Chiefs, Giants, and Packers last year. He had a medical examination in Dallas and he wasn't ready to go. If he is healthy, he will have plenty of suiters. I agree w/you about him wanting to play for a SB contender. I am pretty sure he has already said that.
I looked up the spelling for the ATL WR you brought up. His name is Olamide Zaccheaus. Has a cap hit of $2,433,000. He had 40 catches for 533 yds and 3 TDs last year. There is also Over the Cap Evaluation that says his value is over $6 million. I remember him standing out to me when I watched ATL last year. I wonder if the Falcons will re-sign him? Seems like a good value.
I like Elijah Moore. If the Jets trade for Rodgers, they are going to have to make some tough decisions about who to keep and who to let go. They will also have to move some money around. That's just the way it works if you want to acquire a top flight qb.
OBJ was being courted by the Cowboys, Bills, Chiefs, Giants, and Packers last year. He had a medical examination in Dallas and he wasn't ready to go. If he is healthy, he will have plenty of suiters. I agree w/you about him wanting to play for a SB contender. I am pretty sure he has already said that.
I looked up the spelling for the ATL WR you brought up. His name is Olamide Zaccheaus. Has a cap hit of $2,433,000. He had 40 catches for 533 yds and 3 TDs last year. There is also Over the Cap Evaluation that says his value is over $6 million. I remember him standing out to me when I watched ATL last year. I wonder if the Falcons will re-sign him? Seems like a good value.
Thank you I appreciate it. I remember flipping between games And for 20 minutes I watched the Bengals Falcons He got behind the Bengals secondary for 60 something yd TD catch. I thought " who is this guy" I think he is the kind of WR that could benefit the Browns Offense. Still young. With alot of upside and he has been Injury free. And he has a skill set lacking on the offense Now which is a fast guy that can track down balls
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today It's funny in a years time how the mood And atmosphere of a message board can change. Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in Crisis mode. I never seen such division over A average player.
Just think, 10,000 comedians out of work and here you and Vers are trying to be funny. Just remember, for all of the finger pointing about Baker, you two have more trouble keeping his name out of your posts than any other posters on dawgtalkers. He lives rent free in your minds.
I am interested in certain FA WRs, but the cost for them is pretty much out of hand. One bit of helpful advice for Jared. It should be a Who's Who list rather than a whose who. Not dogging you. Just saying. And I appreciate your efforts to keep us informed.
Browns reportedly have eyes for 6 receivers: 4 free agents & 2 trade candidates
A whose who list of receivers in a weak market
By JaredMueller@JaredKMueller Mar 11, 2023, 5:41pm EST 0 Comments / 0 New
While the Cleveland Browns defense continues to get the most deserved attention from fans and media, adding another receiver is something fans and media are also interested in. In today’s NFL, you can never have enough pass catchers.
The question for GM Andrew Berry is whether he can spend enough resources to make a deal happen. Robert Woods got $10 million guaranteed despite back-to-back down years. Berry is already spending big money on offensive weapons Amari Cooper, David Njoku and Nick Chubb along with QB Deshaun Watson’s big deal.
The team’s second receiver, Donovan Peoples-Jones, could be in line for an extension this offseason after continued growth and free agency awaiting after the 2023 season.
In another free agency rumor/report from Mary Kay Cabot, the Browns do have their eyes on some big names:
Brandin Cooks - Trade Elijah Moore - Trade Adam Thielen - Free agency Odell Beckham Jr. - Free agency Mecole Hardman - Free agency DJ Chark - Free agency
Of the six, only Hardman is expected to sign a relative bargain contract. There are very few good receivers in free agency, the draft lacks a lot of top-end talent and teams are always looking for more playmakers.
On top of Berry potentially being hesitant to spend big money on receivers, the receivers looking for a one-year, bounce-back deal like Beckham and Hardman, may choose someplace where they are not the third or fourth option on most plays.
As Cabot notes, players want to play with Watson including his former teammates DeAndre Hopkins and Cooks but making it work will be a tough job for Berry.
We have a couple of days that will be packed with rumors. Stay tuned as we try to keep you up to date on all of them.
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today It's funny in a years time how the mood And atmosphere of a message board can change. Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in Crisis mode. I never seen such division over A average player.
Just think, 10,000 comedians out of work and here you and Vers are trying to be funny. Just remember, for all of the finger pointing about Baker, you two have more trouble keeping his name out of your posts than any other posters on dawgtalkers. He lives rent free in your minds.
Iam reminded that this is a football discussion board Nothing more nothing less. However for the darenest reasons People tend to take things personally regarding players Can you explain why when it came to Baker Choke-on-field Some Browns fans took it personally? There is no parameters on what to discuss about him or any other Player for that matter. Yet for some it's a no no to be critical Or have fun with Baker. He must live rent free in your head to cause you responded But no he is not in my head.
Iam reminded that this is a football discussion board Nothing more nothing less. However for the darenest reasons People tend to take things personally regarding players Can you explain why when it came to Baker Choke-on-field Some Browns fans took it personally? There is no parameters on what to discuss about him or any other Player for that matter. Yet for some it's a no no to be critical Or have fun with Baker. He must live rent free in your head to cause you responded But no he is not in my head.
I believe you need to look no further than the responses you get on this forum if you're critical about anything.
You are quick to point out "Baker Choke-on-field" fans but not anyone else. Why?
Are not the same guidelines you are posting (no parameters on what to discuss) applicable to anyone in the Browns organization?
Has it not been equal or greater a "no no to be critical" about Berry, Stefanski, Watson, DPJ, Wills or any Browns favorite on this forum?
I find it eerily ironic that the same individuals that complain about the before mentioned Baker support are the same people crying foul even louder when any criticism is levied against a favorite of theirs now with the Browns.
Yet here we are, a full season later and 7 months removed, and any criticism of the Browns in any fashion immediately gets met with attacks and reference to a player long gone and forgotten.
This site takes you to an article that has the best landing site for 5 free agents. The Browns are mentioned as possibilities for two out of the five guys. The best thing is that you can access 9 other sets of 5 guys in each group. So, there are 50 guys who are being talked about and where they might land in FA. It's a cool thing for those who like to read about football players rather than the cap, coaching, front offices, ownership, police reports, etc.
I have a question about Bates. I do not watch much Bengal football, unless they are playing us. I hear he is in line for a top payday. My question is, is he really that good? My sample size of his games is small, but it seems we have had a lot of success against him. Is he really a top safety? I don't mean "is he an upgrade to what we have," that is a different question than, "is he a top safety."
JMO.......I don't think he is worth that kind of money. His PFF numbers are good, but not elite. His Run grade is higher than his coverage grade. With that said, I haven't studied him.
I think Mecole Hardman should be on the Browns radar. I'd even overpay a bit For him than draft another burner in RDs 3 to 5. The Browns really lack speed merchants at the WR spot. Would not hurt to double down
Jones is a good player. One thing that I like about him is that while he is a DE, he also plays DT, as well. He provides a lot of versatility with your rotations. I was very high on him early, but I read that he is going to be expensive. Here is one example of what his cost may be.
Sounds like another bargain bin LB the Browns are desiring He isn't any better than what they have on there roster. When Sinone Taki Taki is your best LB, your LB room Is in big trouble. Look at all the AFC playoff teams from last year. They all had at least 1 really good play making LB.
Insider: Browns and former wide receiver Odell Beckham remain on good terms
Jacob Roach March 12, 2023 3:46 pm ET
We are just days away from the new NFL league year and legal tampering starts Monday. The Cleveland Browns are looking to add speed and dynamic play to the wide receiver room. The team recently attended a workout where former wide receiver Odell Beckham looked like his old self showing teams why they should sign him.
According to Browns insider Mary Kay Cabot, the team and Beckham have stayed on good terms.
“That’s because the Browns and Beckham have remained on good terms since his controversial departure from the team in November of 2021.”
If Beckham is healthy and the player we saw with the Rams during their Super Bowl run he makes the Browns better. He becomes a perfect compliment to Amari Cooper and his ability to create yards after the catch and get vertical is exactly what the team is missing.
Mary Kay would go on to talk about how the Browns have kept tabs on Beckham closely after his injury.
“The Browns kept tabs on Beckham throughout his rehab from surgery in late February, and there were rumblings he wanted to return after they traded for Deshaun Watson. Even last season, the Browns were open to a return depending on his health and how their season played out.”
“The Browns kept tabs on Beckham throughout his rehab from surgery in late February, and there were rumblings he wanted to return after they traded for Deshaun Watson. Even last season, the Browns were open to a return depending on his health and how their season played out.”
Never a dull moment during the NFL offseason that is just starting to heat up next week.
......Just like in most years, Cleveland is rumored to like this big name or that big name to sign in free agency. However, look back to 2021 when there were so many big edge rusher names tied to the Browns heading to the market (Hendrickson, Lawson, Okwara, JJ Watt, Ngakoue, etc) and the Browns got zero of them. They ended up with Clowney a month later. Last year, most of their acquisitions were via trade, not free agency...WR was a need and they ended up with Grant via FA. The biggest "out of the gate" FA signings with Berry leading the ship was in 2020 when he came out firing with Conklin and Hooper. And Hooper did not work out.
I mention all of that to say (1) don't get your hopes up, and (2) even if they do have a lot of guys they like, doesn't mean their coming here. Of course the Browns have guys on their radar, and hopefully the priority is defensive line, I wouldn't get assume some of the big names at positions of need are coming here. I think they have one big signing in them and then I think you see them circle back to second tier FAs once teams spend a big chunk their money for the big names. Maybe a trade to fill a need as well. I suppose I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a second tier FA early just to move on to other stuff like an Ogbonnia Okoronkwo. But maybe second tier isn't fair and should be higher?
I'd also look for them to brings some of their own guys back too....like an Anthony Walker or Ethan Pocic, if the price is right.
I do think we will resign Walker. He should be recovered from injury. They know him and like him.
I fully expect to sign at least one DT. Not sure who but I feel strongly we will get a good player.
I do not think we will sign Bates. Could be wrong but he wants big money and I think we will spend in other ways. I have mixed feelings about Bates. He has tools and he can play but he takes lots of chances that lead to big plays against him. I wonder how Schwartz sees Bates. If Schwartz really likes him we may sign him.
Receiver? I do not see Odell in our future. My guess is we draft a receiver.
Edge Marcus Davenport is a good player and only 26. He would be a good get.
......Just like in most years, Cleveland is rumored to like this big name or that big name to sign in free agency. However, look back to 2021 when there were so many big edge rusher names tied to the Browns heading to the market (Hendrickson, Lawson, Okwara, JJ Watt, Ngakoue, etc) and the Browns got zero of them. They ended up with Clowney a month later. Last year, most of their acquisitions were via trade, not free agency...WR was a need and they ended up with Grant via FA. The biggest "out of the gate" FA signings with Berry leading the ship was in 2020 when he came out firing with Conklin and Hooper. And Hooper did not work out.
I mention all of that to say (1) don't get your hopes up, and (2) even if they do have a lot of guys they like, doesn't mean their coming here. Of course the Browns have guys on their radar, and hopefully the priority is defensive line, I wouldn't get hopes up getting all these names. I think they have one big signing in them and then I think you see them circle back to second tier FA once a lot of teams spent their money for the big names. Maybe a trade to fill a need as well.
I'd also look for them to brings some of their own guys back too....like an Anthony Walker or Ethan Pocic, if the price is right.
Great post - I totally agree, the fans always have high expectations but consistently it has been a letdown. The DE project in 2021 manifested itself into an identical crisis in 2022 where the Browns recruited zero DE replacements for Clowney and eventually resigning him to a 10M deal for 12 games and 2 sacks. I don't believe we have to get into the Browns draft picks at DT and the 3rd tier or lower DT FA additions.
Now that the Browns have restructured Watson again, Berry is cash happy with funds to make some serious moves. I'm very apprehensive about him doing this knowing his record. Berry will spend some, but I expect many of his additions will be lower tier players while he carries a surplus to have a carryover into 2023 to help cover the Browns cap shortage. I hope he proves me wrong for God's sake but not very confident that he will. We'll see starting Thursday.
I do think we will resign Walker. He should be recovered from injury. They know him and like him.
I fully expect to sign at least one DT. Not sure who but I feel strongly we will get a good player.
I do not think we will sign Bates. Could be wrong but he wants big money and I think we will spend in other ways. I have mixed feelings about Bates. He has tools and he can play but he takes lots of chances that lead to big plays against him. I wonder how Schwartz sees Bates. If Schwartz really likes him we may sign him.
Receiver? I do not see Odell in our future. My guess is we draft a receiver.
Edge Marcus Davenport is a good player and only 26. He would be a good get.
I think we get a DT, too. I think we will smartly get one high-end player and then get a couple of guys who will be more economically friendly. Berry knows what he's doing when it comes to managing the cap and won't do anything stupid.
The big contract of Payne in Washington is concerning. DTs are now going to get paid. It's similar to what we saw last year w/WRs. That might take Hargrave out of the picture. That's too bad because he was the one guy I really wanted.
PFF predicts the Browns to land three of their top-100 free agents
Cory Kinnan March 13, 2023 11:04 am ET
The Cleveland Browns are set to make massive upgrades to their defensive line when NFL free agency begins. And on the day that the legal tampering period beings, the Browns officially cleared $36 million in cap space (now giving them $22 million to work with) to work with. With free agency here, PFF has predicted their landing spots for their top 100 free agents as well, and the Browns are projected to land three of them.
Here are the three players the Browns have been projected to land as they look to upgrade their roster and get themselves back into the playoffs in 2023.
DT Dalvin Tomlinson
The Browns need a plug who can anchor in doubles against the run, making Dalvin Tomlinson a great fit for new defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz. If the Browns miss out on the likes of Javon Hargrave and Dre’Mont Jones, Tomlinson is next in line.
EDGE Samson Ebukam
Samson Ebukam might just be the best pass rusher on the market as free agency opens up. As Jadeveon Clowney departs, this would be the top player to line up opposite Myles Garrett. Ogbonnia Okoronkwo is another solid name to watch, but Ebukam is the A+ land.
EDGE Rasheem Green
Needing depth along their defensive line, getting a tweener with alignment versatility like Rasheem Green would be a solid add. He is not a starter, but a player who can contribute and give solid effort both inside and out for the Browns.
He won't be cheap/ I assume $20M+ per season. Make it essentially a two year deal where the Browns can get out from it and have the majority of this year's salary paid in the form of a roster bonus like Berry has typically done on deals to minimize the cap hit. Tell Haslam to get back to the ATM, more cash is needed!
Mecole Hardman is one FA whom I think will be a FA bust...rumored to be commanding a big amount, and he has underperformed in that highly prolific offensive setting...on top of being rather injury prone.
I think we'll have several value signings...a dark horse who's going to be dirt cheap is C Nick Martin (the brother of the superb Zac Martin) He only made 900k last year, and will be near the same price...He's not very good by any means, but with 64 starts...and with Callahan known to work magic...He could be a dirt cheap veteran for insurance behind Nick Harris.
A linebacker I like whom wont command a ton is Denzel Perryman...Plays attack downhill defense, a steady vet who plays with his hair on fire...I think he'd do well in our core, and will only probably cost 3-4 mill...weakness has always been injuries, but did get a pro bowl nod with the Chargers.
A DL vet I like is Matt Ioannidis...wont command a ton financially, but would be ideal splitting reps or pushing our young guys...always plays through the whistle and chases plays.
Where did you get that from? Who said the Browns suck? The last two years the Browns have been 8-9 and 7-10. That puts them firmly in the mediocre category.
Why can't we just designate a pre-tampering tampering period
Originally Posted by tru_dawgs
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Not sure if that was worth posting or not?
Lol...Texans always seem anymore, to sign a bunch of mediocre talent
Texans need another mediocre ≤ crappy season to really propel into the asset stratosphere anyway. May as well be a vet who can mentor the rookie QB. Sounds like a solid plan to me.
Jc... Cincy drafted Dax Hill for him to start in 23, they will grab a safety in FA...they resigned Mike Thomas and still have Brandon Wilson (whom I'd love as our returner) but they do have some work ahead.
I'm fine with Jones going elsewhere for that money. Good for him getting paid. Just give me some affordable 1 year rentals like Calais or Fletcher Cox. Or a moderate deal for one (or both) of the Rams FA DTs.
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · 2m The #Bears' big spending day continues. They've agreed to a deal with former #Titans DE DeMarcus Walker, per his agents Following a 7-sack breakout season, Walker gets over $7 million per year over the next two years.
Daryl is an idiot. The Browns went after the two biggest targets at DT. I don’t know what we offered Hargreaves but we offered more a year to Jones according to a source who reports on the Broncos (Albright)
Daryl is an idiot. The Browns went after the two biggest targets at DT. I don’t know what we offered Hargreaves, but we offered more a year to Jones, according to a source who reports on the Broncos (Albright)
Bargain shopping is not being willing to spend what you need to get it done. Did we get it done? Then he's right.
Daryl is an idiot. The Browns went after the two biggest targets at DT. I don’t know what we offered Hargreaves, but we offered more a year to Jones, according to a source who reports on the Broncos (Albright)
Bargain shopping is not being willing to spend what you need to get it done. Did we get it done? Then he's right.
Overpaying isn’t bargain shopping. We signed Tomlinson so he is wrong anyway I look at it.
Let's save the praises for Andrew Berry when Browns reach the AFC Championship Game. Every season he gets praised and Pats on the back for winning the off season Super Bowl only to end up watching the playoffs at home.
People don't save the criticism before the results are in and I won't save the praise for Berry after Day 1 of FA. Two solid signings at positions of great need.
There is more to be done and I believe it will be done.
It is kinda funny to me how Jet fans are limbo and dreaming of what might be.
I have the utmost respect for Rodgers as a quarterback. IMO one of the best of all time.
The Jets were 7-10 and we know how they got one of those wins. They have some talent on the roster.
News alert. Rodgers does not make them Super Bowl favorites. The NFL is so competitive. The difference between winning and losing so narrow. No team is rubber stamped into the Super Bowl. There are so many factors at play.
Rodgers will no doubt make them a better team.
One thing you learn from following sports. There is no such thing as automatic victory.
Washington's starting qb is Sam Howell. He was a 5th round pick and I believe he has one start. Heinicke was 5-3-1 last year as the starter. Do the Commanders even have another qb on their roster? They cut Wentz earlier. Wouldn't it be wise to keep Heinicke as a backup until you get another qb?
I don't know..........but, what the heck are they thinking.
Moore checks the boxes. He is under a rookie deal for under $3.
He is young 22 years old. His comparison is Brandon Cooks. Fast guy, plays slot, good hands, knows how to get open.
He had issues at NY which is a good thing. Wilson could not get the ball out. He wants out.
He would be a good add that would not be costly to acquire or pay.
I think he would be a good fit in the receiver room. Njoku red zone, seam guy. DPJ solid two who is dependable and makes contested catches. Cooper is a supreme route runner. Moore in the slot. Bell and Woods are good competition and some depth.
Washington's starting qb is Sam Howell. He was a 5th round pick and I believe he has one start. Heinicke was 5-3-1 last year as the starter. Do the Commanders even have another qb on their roster? They cut Wentz earlier. Wouldn't it be wise to keep Heinicke as a backup until you get another qb?
I don't know..........but, what the heck are they thinking.
Maybe Snyder is willing to break ranks on Lamar? Give him his fully guaranteed contract and give other owners the finger?
Washington's starting qb is Sam Howell. He was a 5th round pick and I believe he has one start. Heinicke was 5-3-1 last year as the starter. Do the Commanders even have another qb on their roster? They cut Wentz earlier. Wouldn't it be wise to keep Heinicke as a backup until you get another qb?
I don't know..........but, what the heck are they thinking.
Maybe Snyder is willing to break ranks on Lamar? Give him his fully guaranteed contract and give other owners the finger?
I was thinking that maybe they go w/Lamar as I was typing that. I mean........Sam Howell?
Lol...Texans always seem anymore, to sign a bunch of mediocre talent
I'm not sure why you would say that? Our own FO signed him to work with Baker. Now the Texans are signing him to work with a rookie QB they will be drafting. It seems he is valued highly in working with young QB's.
They are also saying if they get AR that Lazard and Cobb are heading to the Jets. If that happens I think Moore and Mims are out, however we have very little draft capital for the next couple of years and until we can entice Free Agents to want to play here. We had to overpay for Dalvin to sign as a DT because we can't attract the players we want like Hargrave because he can get his money and has a better chance at a ring in San Fran.
I think now that the Browns have watson at QB it will make a lot of WR's want to come here. As of now during this off season I haven't seen the Browns have to "overpay" any FA's to sign here.
What do you think the Jets will want for Moore? I think it would be either a 3rd or a 4th rounder. I think we have one 3rd round pick and two 4th round picks.
Some of the Edge guys I liked came off the board later today. I suppose the plan was to only sign one Edge guy and rotate him w/Wright and even Thomas. I really did like both of the SF guys, though.
The Lions going after Montgomery surprises me a bit. He's a very good back, but they had an excellent two-headed monster in Williams and Swift last year. I guess they are going to part ways w/Williams. It's a tough league for RBs.
The Lions going after Montgomery surprises me a bit. He's a very good back, but they had an excellent two-headed monster in Williams and Swift last year. I guess they are going to part ways w/Williams. It's a tough league for RBs.
You aren't kidding. Penny's deal was for peanuts. I get that he's had injury issues, but when he's right, he was a stud. Surprised he didn't push for more incentives.
Was listening to a PFF Podcast recapping Day 1 of free agency. It was three guys- Sam Monsoon might be the more recognizable name of the three. Anyways, they had to pick their favorite signing from Day 1 and they all went with Ogbo Okoronkwo because of value, upside, fit, team need, etc. That was nice to hear first thing in the morning.
I think you are going to see more teams approach the RB room like Roseman and the Eagles are doing now. They'll invest more in the offensive line as it impacts both the run game and passing game. I bet teams are coming to a conclusion that a good line can make the running game as good (or even better) than the running back based on where you allocate resources.
This probably impacts Chubb next season.....or at least his current contract structure.
Thornhill seems to be a popular guy w/quite a few people. I think he is good in coverage, but he is a terrible tackler. That worries me.
Jimmy Ward signed a contract that wasn't all that big the other day. He would have been a better option. I prefer Julian Love over Thornhill. Chauncy Gardner-Johnson is the best. out there, but he will probably get a huge contract.
Ironically Baker might end up being the best QB in that Division if he actually shows a work ethic and puts in The time to be a student of the position
To expound on your point, it's clear and obvious that there seems to be an unlimited number of really good backs in the draft and in FA each year.
In a passing league where more defenses are shifting their primary focus to stopping the pass and becoming more forgiving of not being as good against the run, even average backs look pretty good and can keep chains moving.
I hope he makes the best of it. I suspect he won't get many more chances if history holds.
Best of luck to him, but yeah, if he comes out cold, he'll be fighting to get signed for backup spots at league minimum. Loved the guy when he was here, didn't think that was the most important place for us to be making big moves at the time as our defense was FAR more suspect (as we continued to see all through the following season), but it remains that he followed a disappointing season with a dismal season and if he is going to reestablish himself in this league, his performances need to be better than his bravado.
I really hope we get another DT. Not a big splash signing. Just another guy who can play. It's important. I'm all in on another DT over a WR in FA or via trade.
A FS would be nice, too. I really don't think this draft class has very good Free Safeties. Not that I know much about the draft this year, but from everything I have read, it's not a good class.
Hmmmmmm, Daniel Jones might actually have the weapons to potentially live up to his new contract. Barkley, Waller, Parris Campbell, Bellinger as TE2, Wan'dale Robinson, Sterling Shepard, and now Slayton. Not a bad skill group, if they can stay healthy.
This guy could be a good option depending on what we think of J. Grant. He had 42 receptions for 423 yds last year in Buffalo.
After the injury, it's hard to imagine that Grant would be a priority for The Browns unless our new ST coach truly thinks he could be a consistent return threat.
Bringing in somebody to camp to clearly win that position over DPJ, Ford or Johnson would be great. I never really liked our #2 WR back there.
I'd only be looking to sign either to one year deals, so age isn't so much of a factor for me. I like Calais' leadership/persona and he has that crazy wingspan to bat passes/constrict passing lanes, neither of which should be affected by age.
I like both Campbell and Harris. That's why I chose them over some of the other options that are still out there. I think either could join Tomlinson in the starting lineup and then we would have Winfrey, Hurst, and Hill as rotational guys. I was just putting it out there to gauge the opinions of others on those guys or if someone thinks there is a better starting option out there that would not break the bank.
I like both Campbell and Harris. That's why I chose them over some of the other options that are still out there. I think either could join Tomlinson in the starting lineup and then we would have Winfrey, Hurst, and Hill as rotational guys. I was just putting it out there to gauge the opinions of others on those guys or if someone thinks there is a better starting option out there that would not break the bank.
At this point I don't think we are really looking for starting options. OK, we may be looking, but they probably aren't there at this point, at least inside our price point. We have 1 for sure, and hope 1 of the others is good enough.
I also think we draft a DT this year, maybe even in the 2nd round...the receiver group is pretty deep.
Last year the group was pitiful. I don't think that will be the case this year. We should be much better. We also have to consider any June 1 cuts, then camp cuts. Let's face it, we probably won't go from pitiful at DT to great this off season. We need to hope for good enough. That can be done.
When was the last time we drafted a DT high? Phil Taylor? That was what 10-15 years ago.
When was the last time we drafted a DT high? Phil Taylor? That was what 10-15 years ago.
Some days I wish I could forget Danny Shelton, too. (2015 1st round)
Edit: Actually I liked Shelton well enough, but he didn't really live up to the draft status.
Heck, I remember the year we traded with the ratbirds 1 spot to draft Kamerion Wimbley, instead of the guy I wanted, haloti Ngata. We see how well that turned out for us
Darn you, Giants. Stay away from the players I want.
First Parris Campbell, now maybe A'Shawn. At least we've addressed DT some. At WR, I find myself starting to wonder if bringing back OBJ might be the best option for the short term. I think he and Watson would freelance together well, and OBJ can pretty much run anything on the route tree, which isn't true for most of the others available. If his medicals check out and we can make the money work on a one year deal, I wouldn't be against it.
Darn you, Giants. Stay away from the players I want.
First Parris Campbell, now maybe A'Shawn. At least we've addressed DT some. At WR, I find myself starting to wonder if bringing back OBJ might be the best option for the short term. I think he and Watson would freelance together well, and OBJ can pretty much run anything on the route tree, which isn't true for most of the others available. If his medicals check out and we can make the money work on a one year deal, I wouldn't be against it.
Media: Browns among top 5 grades in NFL free agency
NFL free agency isn’t over but after the first week, the Browns are near PFF’s top grade
By JaredMueller@JaredKMueller Mar 19, 2023, 8:54am EDT 0 Comments / 0 New
NFL free agency is a long winding road with a lot o bumps between now and the start of training camp with, generally, a couple of curves after that until the start of the season. That road starts out downhill with a lot of speed but quickly comes to an uphill slog with a few decisions here and there.
The additions have been important for the Cleveland Browns even if the names were not the biggest on the market. So far GM Andrew Berry has added or retained four starters which received high praise already:
Center Ethan Pocic FS Juan Thornhill DT Dalvin Tomlinson DE Ogbonnia Okoronkwo
Beyond those four, the following essential depth pieces are on the Browns roster:
TE Jordan Akins LB Sione Takitaki CB AJ Green
Finally, according to reports, Cleveland added two upside players at defensive tackle that could help fill depth needs and, if all goes well, one can break out:
DT Maurice Hurst - More of a 3-technique with a quick step DT Trysten Hill - Still not officially done, Hill is more of a nose tackle to take up blockers Health and production haven’t shown up yet but taking cheap lottery tickets out on Hurst and Hill makes sense. Hurst would have been a late first, early second-round pick if a heart issue hadn’t popped up on his NFL combine medicals. Hill was a second-round pick of the Dallas Cowboys.
Putting all that together, Pro Football Focus has given the Browns an A-, tied for the second-best grade in the NFL:
A quick look at Miami’s offseason shows why they were given a high grade as they added top-end talent (Jalen Ramsey, David Long Jr.) and a ton of depth (DeShon Elliott, Mike White, Braxton Berrios, Dan Feeney) while losing, so far, Mike Gesicki who didn’t really fit the team’s offense.
Cincinnati’s grade, as the other AFC North team on the list, is more interesting. The Bengals lost their top two safeties (Jessie Bates III, Vonn Bell) and their primary backup running back (Samje Perine). Their big addition was LT Orlando Brown who was PFF’s 19th-rated tackle in the NFL last year. They also retained LB Germaine Pratt and upset OT Jonah Williams, with the Brown addition, so he’s asked for a trade.
In the end, all that matters is what happens on the field but we have a long, long road ahead before we can gather that information. So far, Berry has done what he can and, with some salary cap space left, might have a few moves left up his sleeves.
I saw the text of the Tunsil deal and the smoke before I scrolled down a bit to see the full picture and I thought he was in the news again for rocking a gas mask.
Yep, that's pretty much of what the rest of the board is doing after all the horror stories that hijacked almost every thread in this forum leading up to the FA signing period.
It seems you wish to ignore that term you hated so much. "Kick the can down the road". Because you keep focusing on this year and ignoring what people were actually posting.... now. Which in no way surprises me.
I can show you posts where you guys were talking about this year. Let's make a bet on it. If I can do so, you leave the board. If I can't, I leave the board. Stop lying to cover up your dumb takes.
Oh dear Lord. Everyone who reads this board knows that there was talk about how far over the cap the Browns were going into the 2023 season. They also know that the very same people explained that contracts could be restructured to kick the can down the road but that would make the salary cap even harder to deal with in future years. So yes, you can show where people were "talking about this year" but you also know that the topic was about how manipulating the cap this year would just complicate things further in future years.
Look, I'm not the one who threw a tantrum over a Browns QB and left the board. If anyone is trying to rewrite history here by lying that would be you. Dry your tears.
You were throwing fits about people using the term it would be "kicking the can down the road".
More deflection followed by another lie that you, 888, and WSU continue to spread.
I did not leave the board because of Baker Mayfield. I left because of the constant attacks by you guys. Making up stories about what I said. Bringing up my personal life. Telling lies. Putting words I never once uttered into quotation marks. Etc, etc.
You're board bullies. I had enough.
Just know that the majority of the board knows the truth about the crap you guys were spewing about the salary cap and that there were several of us who continually pointed out the salary cap can be manipulated in multiple ways. I'll let you have the last word, but most folks know the truth.
Speaking of deflecting. Blaming your actions on the actions of others is a perfect example of deflection. Yes, you hated Baker and left. But as soon as he was gone, here you were. Sure Vers. Just a coincidence and it's everybody elses fault. Yes, most folks do know the truth. The term we were using was "kicking the can down the road" and you hated it. It's so funny how you start all of this BS like you did today and when people respond you always blame them for it and try to rewrite what happened.
So you can't seem to see it was Vers who brought up the salary cap in the FA thread and was taking a swipe at anyone who questioned the salary cap? Why am I not shocked that you are pretending you don't? But it's not going to work.
Baker should start a insurance company called Regressive. Cause he has regressed as a QB.
Now that Baker has signed with TBay for 4 to 8 million dollars for one year to start. Is it now technically technically possible they could trade Baker to the Browns straight up for Deshaun Watson and Baker could start for the Browns for one year at 4 to 8 million dollars. Well I can dream. so you're saying there's a chance. I mean, he is a tradeable player if he is signed, so there's that.
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