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#2006657 03/10/23 11:16 AM
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When you start with pick #42 in the draft. It is hard to expect a major contribution from draft picks.

Sure it can happen. However, most rookies need a year to figure things out. The transition from college to the pros is a big leap in competition.

Most college players who go pro also typically leave college early. Some positions are harder to make that transition.

This year Free Agency is where we need to find fixes. I am not going into the "cap thing." I will let the experts take care of that.

However, who we sign and how we spend will be interesting to say the least.

The needs are obvious. Start at DT and edge. Then depending on what Berry sees as priorities receiver, linebacker, safety.

The free agent names are out there. We know who they are. Now it becomes who do we target and what freeagent decides he wants to play for the Browns.

The first decision Berry faces is how to spend? Should we spread it around 3 or 4 players. Or, sign a high dollar guy and add some less expensive role players.

IMO we need one bonafide DT starter. We can add some backups so we have a four man rotation. At DE we have Myles, Alex Wright, Isaiah Thomas. We need a guy. What guy for how much is tied to how else we spend and who we can get.

At linebacker it must be decided if we will bring Taki and Walker back. Both coming off injury. I think it is wide open as to what is decided.

What do we do at safety? Delpit, D'Anthony Bell, are it. We have Bubba Bolden on IR. So, we need at least some depth. Maybe a starter.

Right now I am leaning on pick #42 to get a receiver. The FA's are really expensive. We have recent draft picks Bell and Woods starting year two. Maybe they make that big jump in year two? If we could a vet cheap on a short deal maybe.

I think the draft this year is about development. Also, I would consider trading this years picks in rounds four and down for higher rounds next year.

Or, maybe trading up to target a guy you love.

bonefish #2006695 03/10/23 01:48 PM
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Parris Campbell, A'Shawn Robinson, Julian Love are the guys I'd like to see us bring in. Not sure what to do about Edge. Arden Key is tempting on the field, but I don't know about the money he's likely to get and off the field.

If Adetomiwa Adebawore is there when we're picking, he's probably who I'm taking. Where we're picking I don't see a receiver who is going to force himself into the field over Cooper or DPJ. While there are some enticing traits, they mostly look like they'll face a steep learning curve.

I might draft DL with our first 3 picks. Maybe even draft a TE before I would go WR, depending on who's there when.

Get a traits receiver later and maybe he develops. Or just keep trying to develop the ones we have.


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Bull_Dawg #2006735 03/10/23 02:49 PM
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What we do in the draft I think will depend on free agency.

We need one pillar at DT. That to my way of thinking is key. Hargrave or someone close would do the trick.

Then we can add role players. The philosophy is rotate four guys at DT and DE. Keep a fresh guy in there. Then in certain situations go with your top four at both positions.

I think at the rest of "needs" we can get guys who do not have to be stars. Solid role players. Guys who can step in there and do the job adequately.

bonefish #2006741 03/10/23 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
What we do in the draft I think will depend on free agency.

And while that's true to an extent, Berry has been known to double dip at positions using both FA's and draft picks in the same draft, at the same position.


Browns offseason: Will Andrew Berry double dip again?

Free agency and the NFL draft have hit on the same position the last three years

While we can never predict what any team will do in an offseason, their history gives us some understanding. For the Cleveland Browns, this is GM Andrew Berry’s fourth year running the personnel department. While Kevin Stefanski’s coaching staff has seen turnover on defense and special teams, Berry is steady in his role.

Over his first three offseasons, we have seen a significant amount of double dipping from Berry. Instead of free agency wiping a position of his draft board, it has often led to a selection at that position in the ensuing draft.
2020 Browns Offseason

Signed Jack Conklin, drafted Jedrick Wills for the offensive line
Signed Austin Hooper, drafted Harrison Bryant at tight end
Signed Karl Joseph, drafted Grant Delpit at safety
Signed Andrew Billings, drafted Jordan Elliott for the interior of the defensive line
Signed BJ Goodson, drafted Jacob Phillips at linebacker

2021 Browns Offseason

Signed Troy Hill, drafted Greg Newsome II at cornerback
Signed Anthony Walker, drafted Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah for the linebacker room
Signed Malik Jackson, drafted Tommy Togiai again to address the interior defensive line
Signed John Johnson III, drafted Richard LeCounte at safety

2022 Browns Offseason

Traded for Amari Cooper and signed Jakeem Grant, drafted David Bell at receiver
Signed Taven Bryan, drafted Perrion Winfrey to once again try to beef up the defensive line
Traded for Chase Winovich, drafted Alex Wright and Isaiah Thomas for the defensive end room

2023 Browns Offseason

Cleveland’s roster is not as bereft of talent as some would have you think but still has needs on the defensive line, once again, and either needs to bring back a few linebackers or add new ones. The safety position, with Johnson’s future up in the air and Ronnie Harrison a free agent again, is another area that Berry could double up.

With only David Njoku established at tight end, signing a free agent and drafting another tight end would make sense as well.

Where do you think Berry could double up this offseason?

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/2/27/23616070/browns-andrew-berry-free-agency-nfl-draft


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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bonefish #2006774 03/10/23 04:30 PM
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...fensive-players-with-expiring-contracts/

Agent's Take: Target prices for Jessie Bates III, other intriguing defensive players with expiring contracts
Asking prices for players who will be unrestricted free agents or were designated as franchise players
By Joel Corry
53 mins ago

Target prices for 10 offensive players with expiring contracts were covered in an article earlier in the week. The focus now turns to the other side of the ball.

Things will get moving March 13 when the exclusive negotiating rights NFL teams have had with their impending free agents ends. The agents of prospective unrestricted free agents are allowed to negotiate with teams beginning at 12 p.m. ET on March 13 until 3:59:59 p.m. ET on March 15. Prospective UFAs who don't have an agent can also negotiate with front office executives of teams. Players can't sign deals with new clubs until the 2023 league year and free agency officially begin at 4 p.m. ET. A player's ability to re-sign with his current club is allowed during the period.

As a reminder, it was my responsibility while working on the agent side to create target or asking prices for the firm's clients headed toward free agency regardless of whether I was the lead agent. In that spirit, I have set target prices with total contract value, overall guarantees, amount fully guaranteed at signing and first three years compensation (when applicable) for 10 intriguing defensive players who will be unrestricted free agents or were designated as a franchise players.

Players don't necessarily sign for their target prices because free agency is a fluid process where adaptations must be made to changing market conditions. Some players are disappointed in free agency's outcome because their market never develops for a variety of reasons (age, unrealistic contract demands, supply and demand at a playing position, etc.).

Remember the target or asking prices for these players may be on the high side and aren't necessarily what their actual deals will be.


DT Daron Payne ($18.937 million franchise tag)
Contract package: $91 million/4 years ($22.75 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $70 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $47.5 million

S Jessie Bates III
Contract package: $73 million/4 years ($18.25 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $37.5 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $37.5 million

LB Tremaine Edmunds
Contract package: $92.5 million/5 years ($18.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $57 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $41.5 million
First three years: $57 million

DT Javon Hargrave
Contract package: $60 million/3 years ($20 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $42 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $42 million

CB Jamel Dean
Contract package: $72 million/4 years ($18 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $50 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $40 million

CB James Bradberry
Contract package: $43.5 million/3 years ($14.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $30 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $30 million

S Chauncey Gardner-Johnson
Contract package: $40 million/3 years ($13,333,333 per year)
Overall guarantees: $27.5 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $27.5 million

LB LaVonte David
Contract package: $25 million/2 years ($12.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $20 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $17.5 million

S Jordan Poyer
Contract package: $33 million/3 years ($11 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $22 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $18 million

EDGE Marcus Davenport
Contract package: $12 million/1 year (worth up to $15 million with incentives)
Overall guarantees: $12 million ($10.5 million as signing bonus with up to four voiding/dummy years for salary cap purposes)


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
PitDAWG #2006776 03/10/23 04:33 PM
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From what I have read this draft is supposed to be deep at TE.

I think they will go BPA in the draft. So, who and when could be anywhere.

Free agency will be about needs. Clearly from the coaching changes and the results of last season. We have to improve run defense.

There are guys to get. There are options. The question is who and how much?

Linebacker will be worth watching. I like Walker but he is coming off injury. I think we will sign him. Taki? If he is healthy. We know what he can do. So, there is that.

I am curious about safety. They did not want JJ3 back. Bates is a lot of money for safety. He is a good player. But I don't think we can spend big on two positions. I would vote for a DT to spend the most on.

Receiver? I am uncertain what we will do. I think we can get a a good receiver at #42. A guy who could play right away.

After that BPA on guys we hope to develop. I think we will sign 3 maybe four guys in FA.

bonefish #2006781 03/10/23 04:47 PM
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Free agent talk:


bonefish #2006788 03/10/23 05:43 PM
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I agree w/you about FA being about needs. I also agree that we will probably make one high dollar signing, but will probably find less expensive guys after that due to the cap. You and I have agreed about improving the DL in FA and drafting a WR or maybe two. However, Theilen is an interesting guy. I don't think he will break the bank and I am not sure he sees us as a contender, but he would fit well in that 2 or 3 role for us. He can still get open. Makes contested catches. And has good hands. He is also very intelligent against zone coverages. I got the feeling [no proof] that our WRs struggled to create separation and/or get open last year. Teams usually rolled their coverage to Cooper, so that should have freed up more opportunities for the other guys.

bonefish #2006797 03/10/23 06:24 PM
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I don't think our big dollars will be spent on the Edge, but if we use free agency to bring in a guy [we almost have to] there are a few guys that might be worthy of being part of the rotation.

Justin Houston [Ravens,] Frank Clark [KC, but might be too expensive,] Ogbonnia Okoronkwo [Texans,] Charles Omenihu [49ers,] Melvin Ingram [Miami,] are possibilities.

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j/c...

OBJ Reunion Tour....


Milk Man #2006801 03/10/23 06:40 PM
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How many were at Baker's?

LOL...........just kidding.

Milk Man #2006810 03/10/23 07:00 PM
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Odell?

Really? I have to admit. I would be shocked if we signed him.

It would be weird no matter how you slice and dice it. Makes no difference what side of the fence you are on with Odell.

Odell is not a on time precise route runner. BM needed that. Bad mojo.

DW is not BM. He is not a one read, pre-snap, get the ball out guy. He looks post snap at making bigger plays downfield. He may come back to check downs or, run it.

DW and Odell may actually be a good fit. Odell does know how to get open.

Ehhhh no way.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I agree w/you about FA being about needs. I also agree that we will probably make one high dollar signing, but will probably find less expensive guys after that due to the cap. You and I have agreed about improving the DL in FA and drafting a WR or maybe two. However, Theilen is an interesting guy. I don't think he will break the bank and I am not sure he sees us as a contender, but he would fit well in that 2 or 3 role for us. He can still get open. Makes contested catches. And has good hands. He is also very intelligent against zone coverages. I got the feeling [no proof] that our WRs struggled to create separation and/or get open last year. Teams usually rolled their coverage to Cooper, so that should have freed up more opportunities for the other guys.

I kind of feel like Thielen would work out about as well as Dwayne Bowe here. I think the injuries and age are catching up to him. He benefited a lot from teams focusing on Jefferson. I'd rather take a shot on Parris Campbell if the cost is reasonable. I imagine Campbell would be more amenable to come to Cleveland than some FAs as an Akron kid. That and I think his skill set fits what we're missing better and would help open things up for everyone else.


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Bull_Dawg #2006814 03/10/23 07:31 PM
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Bowe was lazy and unmotivated by the time he got to Cleveland. Thielen is not either of those things. With that said, I doubt he becomes a Brown.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
How many were at Baker's?

LOL...........just kidding.
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today
It's funny in a years time how the mood
And atmosphere of a message board can change.
Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in
Crisis mode. I never seen such division over
A average player.

I think Beckham will want to play for a
Team that is ready for a SB now or a team
That has already been like the Chiefs.

FA WRs are tricky to evaluate. Most of them
Are past their prime and essentially role players
At this stage in their careers. And some are
Allowed to hit the open market cause they
Never reached their potential.
And some just never got a chance or much opportunity
With their prior teams.

The WR market looks average at best this year.
But that Falcons WR looks interesting.
His name is Zacca something. He played in their
3 WR sets. He is a burner deep threat guy.
But the Falcons QB situation was so poor last year
His opportunities were limited last year.

bonefish #2006842 03/11/23 08:23 AM
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Elijah Moore is interesting.

The great thing about Moore besides his age(23) and tremendous upside potential is the fact that he’d cost the Browns only $1.472 million in 2023 and $1.879 million in 2024 unless they reward him with a new deal. With 4.35 speed, he’d be a tremendous bargain and weapon at that price, and could probably be had for a reasonable draft pick.

These are the types of deals where you know what you can get. He has two years of tape. He fell out with the Jets.

Moore, who will only be 23 on March 27, had a promising rookie year, with 538 yards and five touchdowns. But he dropped off last year with Zach Wilson at the helm, catching 37 passes for 446 yards and one TD.

Wilson was a failure at finding receivers.

This guy could be good. I am not up on him myself but for a reasonable pick say a fourth. It could pay off big.

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OBJ was being courted by the Cowboys, Bills, Chiefs, Giants, and Packers last year. He had a medical examination in Dallas and he wasn't ready to go. If he is healthy, he will have plenty of suiters. I agree w/you about him wanting to play for a SB contender. I am pretty sure he has already said that.

I looked up the spelling for the ATL WR you brought up. His name is Olamide Zaccheaus. Has a cap hit of $2,433,000. He had 40 catches for 533 yds and 3 TDs last year. There is also Over the Cap Evaluation that says his value is over $6 million. I remember him standing out to me when I watched ATL last year. I wonder if the Falcons will re-sign him? Seems like a good value.

I found the numbers here: https://overthecap.com/player/olamide-zaccheaus/8393.

It's a pretty cool site.

bonefish #2006854 03/11/23 10:11 AM
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I like Elijah Moore. If the Jets trade for Rodgers, they are going to have to make some tough decisions about who to keep and who to let go. They will also have to move some money around. That's just the way it works if you want to acquire a top flight qb.

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I am not stressed about receiver.

There are plenty of options. We should be able to find a guy who can fit into the offense.

I don't think we need to spend big. There are vets like Thielen. Young guys like Moore. Pick #42 we might get a good receiver there. Lots of options.

I do think we need a anchor stud at DT. The rest of our needs can be filled with players to fill roles.

We might be able to get a Edge guy at #42.

Berry has to do his job and I am confident he will. Get the best guys he can while balancing the money and planning for now and the future.

When we look at the roster after free agency and the draft. I believe we will have a good team.

We are better just by the coaching changes made.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
OBJ was being courted by the Cowboys, Bills, Chiefs, Giants, and Packers last year. He had a medical examination in Dallas and he wasn't ready to go. If he is healthy, he will have plenty of suiters. I agree w/you about him wanting to play for a SB contender. I am pretty sure he has already said that.

I looked up the spelling for the ATL WR you brought up. His name is Olamide Zaccheaus. Has a cap hit of $2,433,000. He had 40 catches for 533 yds and 3 TDs last year. There is also Over the Cap Evaluation that says his value is over $6 million. I remember him standing out to me when I watched ATL last year. I wonder if the Falcons will re-sign him? Seems like a good value.

I found the numbers here: https://overthecap.com/player/olamide-zaccheaus/8393.

It's a pretty cool site.
Thank you I appreciate it. I remember flipping between games
And for 20 minutes I watched the Bengals Falcons
He got behind the Bengals secondary for 60 something yd
TD catch. I thought " who is this guy"
I think he is the kind of WR that could benefit the Browns
Offense. Still young. With alot of upside and he has been
Injury free. And he has a skill set lacking on the offense
Now which is a fast guy that can track down balls

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I agree. I just wonder if ATL will let him walk? He seems like a guy they may want to keep. Has skills and is fairly inexpensive.

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
How many were at Baker's?

LOL...........just kidding.
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today
It's funny in a years time how the mood
And atmosphere of a message board can change.
Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in
Crisis mode. I never seen such division over
A average player.

Just think, 10,000 comedians out of work and here you and Vers are trying to be funny. Just remember, for all of the finger pointing about Baker, you two have more trouble keeping his name out of your posts than any other posters on dawgtalkers. He lives rent free in your minds.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Wonder what Schwartz thought of Dupree in Tennessee. Could be a relatively cheap rotational piece if PFF's market valuation is accurate.


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bonefish #2006906 03/11/23 07:18 PM
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I am interested in certain FA WRs, but the cost for them is pretty much out of hand. One bit of helpful advice for Jared. It should be a Who's Who list rather than a whose who. Not dogging you. Just saying. And I appreciate your efforts to keep us informed.


Browns reportedly have eyes for 6 receivers: 4 free agents & 2 trade candidates

A whose who list of receivers in a weak market

By JaredMueller@JaredKMueller Mar 11, 2023, 5:41pm EST 0 Comments / 0 New

While the Cleveland Browns defense continues to get the most deserved attention from fans and media, adding another receiver is something fans and media are also interested in. In today’s NFL, you can never have enough pass catchers.

The question for GM Andrew Berry is whether he can spend enough resources to make a deal happen. Robert Woods got $10 million guaranteed despite back-to-back down years. Berry is already spending big money on offensive weapons Amari Cooper, David Njoku and Nick Chubb along with QB Deshaun Watson’s big deal.

The team’s second receiver, Donovan Peoples-Jones, could be in line for an extension this offseason after continued growth and free agency awaiting after the 2023 season.

In another free agency rumor/report from Mary Kay Cabot, the Browns do have their eyes on some big names:

Brandin Cooks - Trade
Elijah Moore - Trade
Adam Thielen - Free agency
Odell Beckham Jr. - Free agency
Mecole Hardman - Free agency
DJ Chark - Free agency


Of the six, only Hardman is expected to sign a relative bargain contract. There are very few good receivers in free agency, the draft lacks a lot of top-end talent and teams are always looking for more playmakers.

On top of Berry potentially being hesitant to spend big money on receivers, the receivers looking for a one-year, bounce-back deal like Beckham and Hardman, may choose someplace where they are not the third or fourth option on most plays.

As Cabot notes, players want to play with Watson including his former teammates DeAndre Hopkins and Cooks but making it work will be a tough job for Berry.

We have a couple of days that will be packed with rumors. Stay tuned as we try to keep you up to date on all of them.


https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/...ts-rumors-browns-cooks-chark-obj-hardman

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
How many were at Baker's?

LOL...........just kidding.
Haha that's rather funny. I needed a good chuckle today
It's funny in a years time how the mood
And atmosphere of a message board can change.
Last year at this time all the Baker Fans were in
Crisis mode. I never seen such division over
A average player.

Just think, 10,000 comedians out of work and here you and Vers are trying to be funny. Just remember, for all of the finger pointing about Baker, you two have more trouble keeping his name out of your posts than any other posters on dawgtalkers. He lives rent free in your minds.
Iam reminded that this is a football discussion board
Nothing more nothing less. However for the darenest reasons
People tend to take things personally regarding players
Can you explain why when it came to Baker Choke-on-field
Some Browns fans took it personally?
There is no parameters on what to discuss about him or any other
Player for that matter. Yet for some it's a no no to be critical
Or have fun with Baker.
He must live rent free in your head to cause you responded
But no he is not in my head.

bonefish #2006920 03/11/23 09:14 PM
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If they bring Odell back, I'm just done.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Iam reminded that this is a football discussion board
Nothing more nothing less. However for the darenest reasons
People tend to take things personally regarding players
Can you explain why when it came to Baker Choke-on-field
Some Browns fans took it personally?
There is no parameters on what to discuss about him or any other
Player for that matter. Yet for some it's a no no to be critical
Or have fun with Baker.
He must live rent free in your head to cause you responded
But no he is not in my head.

I believe you need to look no further than the responses you get on this forum if you're critical about anything.

You are quick to point out "Baker Choke-on-field" fans but not anyone else. Why?

Are not the same guidelines you are posting (no parameters on what to discuss) applicable to anyone in the Browns organization?

Has it not been equal or greater a "no no to be critical" about Berry, Stefanski, Watson, DPJ, Wills or any Browns favorite on this forum?

I find it eerily ironic that the same individuals that complain about the before mentioned Baker support are the same people crying foul even louder when any criticism is levied against a favorite of theirs now with the Browns.

Yet here we are, a full season later and 7 months removed, and any criticism of the Browns in any fashion immediately gets met with attacks and reference to a player long gone and forgotten.

These reeks of the pot calling the kettle black.

Just watch the replies to the posts.

Last edited by steve0255; 03/12/23 12:28 AM.

Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
bonefish #2006937 03/12/23 10:41 AM
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This site takes you to an article that has the best landing site for 5 free agents. The Browns are mentioned as possibilities for two out of the five guys. The best thing is that you can access 9 other sets of 5 guys in each group. So, there are 50 guys who are being talked about and where they might land in FA. It's a cool thing for those who like to read about football players rather than the cap, coaching, front offices, ownership, police reports, etc.


https://nfltraderumors.co/best-free-agent-fits-smith-david-peterson-poyer-cox/

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
He must live rent free in your head to cause you responded
But no he is not in my head.

Yet you were one of the two people who made a comment about him. Funny how that works isn't it?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
If they bring Odell back, I'm just done.

So watson didn't do that for you but OBJ does?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I have a question about Bates. I do not watch much Bengal football, unless they are playing us. I hear he is in line for a top payday. My question is, is he really that good? My sample size of his games is small, but it seems we have had a lot of success against him. Is he really a top safety? I don't mean "is he an upgrade to what we have," that is a different question than, "is he a top safety."


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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JMO.......I don't think he is worth that kind of money. His PFF numbers are good, but not elite. His Run grade is higher than his coverage grade. With that said, I haven't studied him.

bonefish #2006969 03/12/23 01:22 PM
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I think Mecole Hardman should be on the Browns radar. I'd even overpay a bit
For him than draft another burner in RDs 3 to 5.
The Browns really lack speed merchants at the WR spot.
Would not hurt to double down

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Hardman is definitely fast. He seems to get injured a lot, though.

bonefish #2006972 03/12/23 01:29 PM
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Tackles are tackles.
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Jones is a good player. One thing that I like about him is that while he is a DE, he also plays DT, as well. He provides a lot of versatility with your rotations. I was very high on him early, but I read that he is going to be expensive. Here is one example of what his cost may be.


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Get him. I don’t care how we do it. He might take a bit of a hometown discount, cuz he apparently wants to be a Brown.


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2023: The year we got a legit D.
bonefish #2007072 03/12/23 09:41 PM
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Morrow played and started for Chicago last year. Began his career in Oakland.

Last edited by Pdawg; 03/12/23 09:43 PM.

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Nicholas Murrow PFF Grades 2022:

Overall - 54.0
Run Defense - 46.8
Pass Rush - 54.2
Coverage - 61.2

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