you just can't make it up

and just like that... our season is lost to IR.

it's really depressing honestly ... I feel like we're never going to catch a break

I heard that on the radio and thought it was a joke.

Next man up...but damn, simply unreal.

this team just cant catch a break

And people say there is no curse

This is proof of reincarnation. And the Browns were Jeffery Dahmer.

We’re gonna get a real good look at DTR.

If only we had a “next man.”

I would say that we should go with DTR from here on out win or lose. Walker isnt going to getthe job done and neither is grabbing a guy off the couch.

It's one thing to play Walker/DTR knowing it's just a bandaid ... it's another knowing it's the entire rest of the season now

We cannot have nice things. What a nightmare.

I find it absolutely terrifying that not a single person in our FO dared to ask the question “yeah but what if he gets hurt” when debating whether or not to give Deshawn that contract.

No words really.

Hard to take this. Not much else to say.

Season’s over. Find out who will be QB2 next year. It’s literally the only reason to play these 8 games.

The world is cruel.

I feel badly for all of us (and all of the fans), along with our defense and OL etc .. this year deserved more

Damn.

I couldn't believe what I was reading. After a great win like that and the way he played in the 2nd half. I can't describe how awful I feel right now. No one should ever question why as Browns fans we feel like we do NEVER!!!! Just awful!!!

Not much to say also-i am stunned-Is there anybody on the street we could bring in-
I just looked it up-names like Cooper Rush, Matty Ice, Joe Flacco and Marcus Mariotta are out there.

Do we owe Houston any more picks?

I'm not even joking when I say we should pretty much shut it down for the season. We've already lost too many starters, and we're getting into the time of year when season-ending injuries will bleed into next year. We've lost Chubb and Watson, and we've already seen what the offense looks like with Walker/DTR running the O. Walker sucks and DTR (best case) just isn't ready. I would lose my mind if Garrett picked up an ACL or something like that.

It's just a nightmare with it being after the trade deadline too ... the pickings are REALLY slim

hello darkness my old friend

WE really should bring in a VET QB now. Have to!!

Is there anyone out there that could give this team half a chance to at least have a respectable record at years end? I see Colt McCoy and Nick Foles. Any other reasonable suggestions?

I was waiting for another shoe to drop after the Ravens win.

what are the options? Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers ..? Todd Philcox?

I though Cooper Rush and Mariota were signed.

Man I wake up to this?! Not how I wanted my day to start.

That Josh Dobbs trade gets worse by the second.

Ye
I just checked-yes they are; the article I was looking at was from a couple weeks ago (before the trade deadline). So, they are off the table
I think the Matt Ryan and Flacco options are still possible

So it wasn't the team Doctors he saw

It was his own personal Doctor ?

How do you shut down the season at week 9?

How many games can you possibly miss in a 3 year span before you call it a career?

This dude might not play again at a respectable level.

Running QBs get hurt. It is a guarantee.

Glass...

I can't fault DW for breaking a bone in a stellar win, but damn this sucks. Bet Berry wishes he would have moved on a qb now. Would be nice having Dobbs about now...

but he's more a mobile QB, definitely likes staying in the pocket. also, getting it done now protects his health for the remainder of his career instead of just shooting it up with meds like he wanted to.

and pocket QBs get hurt just as often.

So much for theory some had that he had his money and was looking to not play through a minor injury.

The curse is real and is named Art Modell. FML

DTR, DTR, DTR

Carson Wentz, Tom Terrific, Tim Couch, Mike Pagel

I hope the team isn't hanging their heads like the fans are. Elite defense and one of the easiest remaining schedules. Playoffs are still within reach.

The most important thing for this year now is the playoffs. Just get in.

And unleash DTR! No Walker.

I agree ... Walker isn't the answer. This isn't a 1 week thing now .. it's a 1/2 season thing. Gotta play the guy with the higher ceiling

Ain't that the truth. The Browns have no legitimate contingency plan in place at all. Unless they actually felt that Walker or DTR WAS a legitimate contingency plan. And if so, shame on them.

Year 2 of the 230 million dollar man gone. 2 down and three to go.

Somehow through all of the hope of this season I think those of us who have been around long enough felt that some way, somehow, the other shoe would drop. It never seems to fail.

At 6-3 you give up and play the person with "the highest ceiling"? That seems to be the roll over and play dead approach.

and now the SERIOUS questions begin about Watson's future. He's going to be on the wrong side of 30, having missed MULTIPLE seasons, and having MULTIPLE serious injuries

Great news. 😠

This is a friggin' nightmare.

Start DTR. I don't think they will though.

That’s my point as well. How much more football can you miss in your first 6 years and still be considered a viable option?

on another note, how LUCKY do the Steelers always get?

From their perspective, they are 6-3 and now get to play another 6-3 team with a crap QB

Berry isn't gonna say much of course

We just have to hope we can sign someone

Worst trade in sports history. Fire these idiots. Unreal. Absolutely unreal what they’ve done to the great team that John Dorsey constructed. Fire all of them.

They won’t play DTR until PJ gets hurt.

I mean, Haslam is the one who wanted the deal, so I'm not sure why we should fire AB or KS

The Steelers starter is basically a Walker clone. He's terrible. So two teams, one with an elite defense, and two bad qbs will play this weekend. Browns should still be favored.

Browns are not out of this. Everyone take a deep breath.

Dorsey made his own bed when he brought that moron up as head coach. No GM survives that decision.

On top of everything, someone has hijacked Rishuz account.

Could this morning get any WORSE!?!?

Nick Foles, please.

Literally the Steelers have been winning with a really poor backup QB all year. Nothing saying the Browns can't do the same.

Playing for a pick (if it's ours). Preventing injury to your key guys becomes priority.

Look, I know it's not going to happen but we've already seen what this offense looks like w/o Chubb and a starting-caliber QB. This year is now lost (which really sucks for the D), but there's no reason to affect next season by losing a Garrett or a JOK to a late-season catastrophic injury.

Start churning the bottom of the roster and get depth guys more playing time.

True. But Dorsey didn’t commit 230 million and 3 first round picks for what has amounted to nothing. Worst trade in sports history. Worse than when the Red Sox sold Babe Ruth to my beloved Yankees. Someone needs to be held accountable.

This is a terrible take. Everything is still in front of the Browns.

Get DTR in there and call and get him comfortable. Run heavy offense, play elite d. Browns have an easy schedule to finish the season. In no way, shape, or form should they throw in the towel.

WKNR just read a tweet from Tom Pellissaro (sp)-Deshaun wanted to be shot up and play through the injury.
The doctors told him not to, so he went to multiple other doctors for opinions.

They told him with the injury-if he plays through it and took another hit-"his shoulder could fall apart"

Lolz.

Calling Tom Brady.......

Watson did what he could in the second half against the Ravens, hats off for him, but questions has to be directed against Andrew Berry and his FO.

1. What’s the back up plan? Our current QB’s aren’t good enough if we judge by previous results so what’s the plan?

2. Nobody sign a guaranteed $230m contract without a plan B? Absolutely nobody with common sense. This’s gross incompetence on the highest level. In any other professional organization there would be consequences. How is it possible that the Cleveland Browns are in the middle of a clown show again?

3. Who sanctioned Watson to play if it was a risk he could have a season ended injury? Didn’t we learn anything from the Baker Mayfield fiasco? Again! This question needs an answer.

4. What’s next for DSW? Another wasted season. Another fiasco for the Browns FO. We can’t all the time blame bad luck, unexpected circumstances or other excuses when things go wrong. There’s a GM and a FO behind most decisions, or it should be in a professional organization. Otherwise who’s responsible?

Berry has made an unbelievable good job with our D. 10/10. Everything from JS to all our new players. I just want to praise him but as a GM he’s responsible for everything, good and bad decisions. Right now we’re in a mess and he’s our highest ranking chief. The bucks stop with him.

😆. There’s a difference between naivety and positivity. If you’d like to see this team win 10 games and get into the playoffs, you might have something good in front of you. If you’d like to see this team get into the superbowl, I’m sorry man, but it isn’t happening in our lifetime.

Ken Dorsey is available....

That should be a consideration.

It would not hurt. No as an answer does not come with a cost.

And he will side step and continue to make excuses to justify the Dobbs trade. This guy is a clown.

The problem is that the Browns are still owned by an incompetent person. It's not like anything can be learned from this. Further proof that money is no replacement for brains. It's a continuing CF. SMH

Dobbs got beat out by DTR. We'll never know for sure, but the fact that he's on his 4th (?) team in the last calendar year probably tells us that he's not the savior you think he is.

That said, this right here is the reason why you spend a little money on a capable backup if you consider yourself in contention. I felt like we sat on our hands at the trade deadline by not forcing anything with Brissett.

Nick Foles

Man, the meltdown in here is crazy.

Is it a blow? Yes.

Is the season over? No.

Berry is competent. Stefanski is competent. I have my critiques, but this season is changing my mind.

They will both be here next year and the Browns will be good again.

For the rest of this season, Stefanski just has to manage DTR/Walker (hopefully DTR), limit turnovers, and play great D. These are all doable things. Everything the Browns want is right in front of them.

The woe is me is depressing.

The Browns will still make the playoffs. The bummer is that the chances of them making any noise now is slim to none. Watson gave legitimate hope of reaching a Super Bowl.

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

I don't think you can blame injuries on the FO or coaching staff. Injuries happen in the NFL. None of us know the condition of that shoulder since it was originally injured or how susceptible it was to more serious injury if he played. He sure looked good in that second half and in previous weeks since the original injury. You can however look at ROI. The bottom line. And the bottom line is that at the end of this season 40% of that 230 million dollar contract will be in the rear view mirror and the Browns will have little to show for that investment.

As it pertains to not having a legitimate back-up plan I have to use the same train of thought to an extent. Injuries happen all of the time. Even casual NFL fans know this. Shipping Dobbs off for a six pack and a ham sandwich was an obvious mistake. The Browns are spending more money out in player salaries this year than any other team in the NFL. To do that without a legitimate back-up QB is unconscionable.

I agree.

They need to pick one of these guys and just get him in here ASAP. Maybe we can squeak by this week, but we need the next guy to get up to speed fast. I’d get Foles, but there isn’t much difference in what’s available - unless Brady decides to play again.

Blah blah blah - Watson played hurt and showed how tough he is. We are proud of our team and this is a fantastic challenge for them. It's never about one guy. Yadda yadda yadda. And now for the questions. Who is going to start? KS will address that. Adding to the QB room? TBD Why not pursue someone before the trade deadline? We feel good about our QB room. What about the Dobbs trade, any regrets? We're focused on our QB room and we will review that in the future. Any other thoughts on creatively adding another QB? We're focused on our QB room. We feel good with DTR. He played well in practice and the preseason. Recovery time line? Not really the time to discuss it. And there you have it. Side step city. Address the Dobbs trade? Not really. This clown should be a politician. He needs to go.

I just can't be mad about this. They guy delivered, and delivered with a broken shoulder. His running style needs to be moderated a bit for next year but hopefully we'll have more running options by then. He did what he had to do to win at Baltimore. Sucks to lose him, but a broken bone is a legitimate risk of playing football.

So depressed.....He was starting to play very well, the ankle wasn't going to be an issue. Coming off a huge win vs the Ravens, felt we were going to steamroll the Steelers this week. And this happens. Like others said, would have been nice to have Josh Dobbs right now. So glad Berry went the cheap route with DTR /sarcasm.

AFC is wide open this year, no one looks unbeatable and I thought we had a great chance this year. Windows close fast, look at the Bills.

This sucks......

Sounds like we are sticking with PJ

Colt McCoy just bought a house in Strongsville.

I agree. We have a D that can win games. Our running game is stout even without Chubb. I don't see the season as over. We can still win 4-5 games down the stretch.

Once in the playoffs, D wins.

Good thing we didn't feel the need to upgrade the basch-up Qb position before the trade deadline.

Who is out there available as a street free agent?

I don't think we could coerce Brady out of retirement, but certainly worth a call.
Foles is the best option I have heard so far

Manziel is out there

That Canadian league Qb sounds interesting but I know very little about him => that includes his name

I am not sure how some people make it through life. If your first reaction to serious adversity is to just give up that tells me something. When I first heard the news, may first thought was, who do we start, how can we help then succeed and to look outside the team for a veteran that can really help. Of course, it is a huge blow, and we may drop off the NFL contender face, but can we at least try?

I dealt with serious for years at work, You don't just quit.

....at least I still have daily fantasy football.

A little comedy relief should always be appreciated in times such as these.

I approve this message.

Another name i just saw is Trevor Simeon. He played for the Vikings when Stefanski was there as an assistant coach.

I feel bad for browns fans. I don't feel bad for the sexual predator . With that being said the Dobbs trade has to be one of the dumbest trades I have seen in a long time. You have no back up qb now that can play even at a decent level. Matt Ryan is still available but probably wants nothing to do with us. How browns... how browns...

This is kinda bad news.
Could not have come at a worse time.The weather is turning crappy and I can waste a Sun.afternoon watching football.But I can't stomach dumb football and I'm afraid the Browns are headed that way.

No, I am not Jason Lloyd.

They have to play the QB that gives this team the best chance to win. Thus far they have decided that is Walker. It's not time to bring out the training wheels.

Some decent options: Mark Malone, Bernie, Brady, Drew Bledsoe, Rivers, Brees, Don Strock, Neil Odonell, Sean Salsberry, Neil Lomax, Marino.

I forgot about Tannehill, but that would have to require a lot of maneuvering

When I read the news, my first thought was: If we were 19-0 our plane would crash on the way to the Super Bowl.

Don Strock! Was he not the greatest back-up Qb of all time?

Sherman nails it

I do like that idea.
He could come in and be play ready pretty quickly

Is DR David Mays still practicing? He beat the Steelers IIRC.

I think DTR has to be in the mix. Maybe a QB rotation. Go with the hot hand.

We kept DTR and traded Dobbs. It might be time to give DTR another look.

The guy wasn't ready when we put him in against the Ravens. It was a fairly late decision as I recall. He probably didn't get many 1st team reps that week.

As long as he or Walker can keep away from being turnover machines, and complete enough throws to keep the D's from squatting on our run game, we can still win 4-5 games.

Before the news today, I was actually thinking we could win out and take home field advantage. That probably won't happen, but we have to keep the faith. We have a very good football team.

Hate to pointnit out man. But Germany never attached pearl harbor... just saying.

the thing working against DTR was that the Ravens/Steelers are such nightmares for rookie QBs ... literally the worst teams to play

I'd even feel better with him against the Rams, Jags, Bears, etc

I think Simean is on the Jets roster as a backup to Zach Wilson.

DTR SZN

Come on man. Try to be serious or get out of here.

j/c...

This team has so much fight in them, yet some are wanting to throw in the towel. I hope that loser mentality only applies to your fandom and not your everyday life.

let's hope he's a bit more settled

He won't be great, probablyt won't even be very good, but he'll be able to step in quickly for the same reason Dobbs has been able to look good in Minny... it's basically the same offense. He could spend the next couple of weeks on Practice Squad, and then, at the worst, he is a capable backup, at best he forces his way up the depth chart.

At this point I wouldn't even go the PS route.

Somewhere on this roster we can sacrifice a player to keep all 3 QB's on the active roster. Somebody on the active gameday roster isn't seeing much action, if any. Somebody can go cover a kick or two.

If we bring in somebody I want him on the sidelines during the game learning as much as possible, as fast as possible.

Quoted for truth. SMH

j/c...

He didn't nail anything. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

The broken bone injury happened in the Ravens game.

Look this is sad for many reasons. But to begin looking to lay the blame on someone is total BS.

Did Rodgers season end? Injuries happen continuously in football. Nick Foles did win a Super Bowl. Backups usually do not.

This is a sad day for the city of Cleveland and all their fans. It is too bad that some will come out of woodwork and begin with all their BS.

KS will move forward and so will the team. They will go out and try to win games. That is what can be done.

Can't slip anything past you!

[quote=vadawgfan07 I see Colt McCoy and Nick Foles. [/quote]

Foles might be the better choice but we must bring in an experienced QB.....

Watson is a tough [censored]. And he played with this injury and a bum ankle vs Ravens.

I don’t agree with you for one second. Excuses has always been losers best option. Shannon calls it yada yada yada….


As a GM for a professional organization you plan for the worst but hope for the best. Not the other way around.

Giving away 230m is one thing. Giving away 230 plus multiple draft picks on top of that is when questions must be asked.
230 + multiple draft picks to someone with a questionable character is something else.

All these stupidities can be forgotten with success. That’s how it works in the world of sports. I agree about that.


But if someone does all this without any sorts of insurance if something goes wrong and present NO success then it’s inexcusable. Full stop.

It's a sad injury day for the Browns but some might say it's "Karma."

In any case, I believe the "defense" will be ok for a few games as long as their effort isn't thwarted with turnovers by the offense costing them games. If that rears its ugly head early, the defense might bail considering their efforts are for naught. That would turn what still looks like a possible decent year into another cluster.

Accountability:
Berry: Whether you believe he has done a good job or not, having had an unlimited checkbook to build a winner (NFL highest cash spend in 2021, 2nd highest in 2022, and highest again in 2023), posting another lackluster season should be looked at as unconscionable. Given the ability to spend whatever, not having a legitimate backup (plan B) at QB is going to be highly questioned or certainly should be.

Watson: Ignoring whether the thought process of Watson being good or bad is not the issue now. The Browns will have spent in real cash 92M over 2 seasons now on Watson with no ROI. A bigger issue though is in 2024, Watson's cap hit balloons to 63.977M per season unless Berry restructures Watson again. Problem with that thought process is that Watson already has one void year on his deal due to previous restructures and another will just extend those future cap costs into another void year. It would also raise his cap cost for 2025 and 2026 to over 72.952M per season. For a player coming off season ending injury to the throwing shoulder, restructuring again would be a huge gamble.

TOP 5 CURRENT QB CAP Charge for 2024
1. Watson: 63,977,000 (1 void year so far) + (under contract through 2026 fully guaranteed)
2. Prescott: 59,455,000 (2 void years with 2024 final year of current contract - not guaranteed)
3. Mahomes: 57,358,269 (zero void years) + (under contract through 2031, no guarantees after 2025, highest current cap charge 63,2M in 2026)
4. Murray: 51,897,000 (zero void years) + (under contract through 2028, no guarantees after 2024)
5. Stafford: 49,500,000 (zero void years) + (under contract through 2026, no guarantees after 2024)

Stefanski: Much the same as Berry with the added fact that if the Browns collapse, that will be 3 losing seasons in a row with the highest cash spend in the NFL over that time period. 10 wins might get Stefanski another year. Eight (8) wins or less will make his seat very hot not to mention some serious roster moves that will have to be done in 2024.

Hey, Shanahan did it with a 7th round rookie draft pick last year, time for Stefanski to man up!

 

Then just quit.

I mean seriously, if it's layers and layers of things you don't agree with and "stupidity"... topped with "inexcusable". Just. Quit.

You’re right. I’m the only one here trying to make light of this. 👀

I’ll be serious now. Best case scenario: We’ll have below average-average qb play for the rest of the year. If our defense stays motivated despite the latest news, we’ll squeak into the playoffs and lose in the first round. Good times as usual.

Worst case scenario.. I won’t insult your intelligence by even remarking on this.

Season ticket holders, like you, deserve the biggest thank you in the world for supporting this absolute mistake of a franchise.

I'll be sure to run my first reactions to news like this past you from now on.

You're really going to throw around phrases like "loser mentality" while playing message-board-fandom police?

I seriously don't understand how some of our fans think. Haslam, Berry, and Stefanski have put together a football team that is capable of winning at the highest level and we have fans that want them gone. They must have really liked 1-32. Most teams would not have withstood the injuries this team has withstood so far. Heck San Fran lost 3 straight games while Deebo Samual was out. The Browns have been without our best offensive weapon since the 2nd quarter of game 2. They have overcome losing their franchise QB for 4 other weeks and then lost 3 of their top 4 Offensive tackles and still have beaten the Ravens on the road, and the Niners and Bengals at home. This team was poised to make a run at the Division for really the first time since they returned in 1999. Injuries happen and I am as sick as anyone else that we lost Chubb and now Watson for the season. I hope DTR can win us maybe 4 of our remaining games. But if they do fire Berry or Stefanski it would the dumbest decision in franchise history. I do not want to go back to 1-32 but we have fans that seem to want just that. They are more concerned about their agenda's and or they're dislike of our QB or front office for signing him and getting rid of their hero.

Did the Jets expect Rogers to get hurt in the 4th play from scrimmage for them? No. Was it their fault? No. There is not a team out there that could overcome the loss of their best offensive weapon and their franchise QB. The loss of the player can be overcome by QB play and that is what we were seeing here. The loss of a franchise QB could be overcome by the team's best player. I think Myles Garrett and the defense is doing all they can but without Nick Chubb I think it is a tall order for DTR. I will be rooting for DTR to play awesome and help the defense get the team to the playoffs. If he does awesome if he does not, we have to stay the course or return to the draft in our very special way as picking first year in and year out. But maybe that is what these agenda driven posters want to always win the draft!

Is Kyler Murray a possibility?

Matty Ice, Tannehill, Foles, Rivers, Andy Dalton, all make sense.

There a few of those type of fans. But I think by and large it's some people not willing to give them a free pass on every decision they make. The hiring of Schwartz was brilliant. The additions they made to the defense have played out well. They found a great kicker! But going into this season with this mess at backup QB was a bone headed move. People can make all the excuses they like for that. Nobody is perfect and this FO is no different. So are you saying the Jet's did a good job in handling their backup QB position or are you trying to say both the Jet's and the Browns got it wrong?

You certainly can't replace your starting QB with the same level of QB. But you can have a backup that can compete. And this thing you're saying about having to draft a first round QB? You don't need to make that kind of investment to get a decent backup QB. The Browns let one go for a 6th round pick in 2025. It's okay to admit they made a mistake.

No they didn’t expect him to get hurt. Now that I think about it, the Jets have a great defense, like ours. They also have Garrett Wilson, we don’t. The Jets will be lucky to finish the season at .500.

- All things that certify that this season is over. I could care less if we make the playoffs only to lose in the first round.

Season ticket holders get swindled yet again.

Move this mistake of a franchise outta here.

Berry will evaluate the current roster and try to upgrade if the available piece fits their plans.
Facts- Browns have lost their starting RT, LT, All-Pro running back, and THE most important/hardest to master athlete - starting QB. Talking just offense- I can't think of a more crippling set of injuries EVER. Now, you can say- next man up all you want, but statistically there ain't many Brady's pulled out of a hat- nor Purdy's for current reference.

Our next edition of DTR will soon be seen- hopefully, he's a lot better than the first addition. How the running game has continued to produce effectively- MOSTLY- is a wonder of the world. With the so-called 24th easiest schedule remaining- we "could be" still in the playoff hunt. Baltimore won a SB decades ago with defense and a serviceable QB- can lightning strike twice- time will tell. Go Browns!!!!

That's been his MO for years when he shows up to post.

As far as the situation goes with the QB, I think we just need to see what we have in DTR, and if he flops again, I guess we'll have to look at the veteran scrap heap. Not sure what else to do that could salvage things at this point.

Say what? Please show me the proof of this detective.

A detective isn't needed.

You still calling people liars that claim their mother died?

It depends on who it is.

Now if Andrew Berry would just come out and be accountable for this dumb decision, that would be admirable. All we get from him is the spin game. Should probably head to Washington DC. Better fit there.

You do realize that Shanahan is light years ahead of Stefanski, right? No, Stefanski gets a pass for this year too. Thanks for the laugh though.

Quit from what.

Being a critical Brown supporter?
Voicing my opinion?
Watching football?

I started by praising Berry for all his good work.I gave him a 10/10. Isn’t that praise enough for you?

I also concluded that a GM and his FO is responsible for every decision. Is that wrong?

Injuries are a key part of such a violent sport as American football. That’s just a fact.

When a organization spend 230M guaranteed on one key position, on top of that give up multiple valuable draft picks, on a questionable character, with a weak back up QB when the rest of the roster is probably SB quality then it’s every supporters right to have questions.

If we look at our cap space next season then 2023 was the season when our SB window is open. Am I right?

With that in mind it would be wise to enter the season with a better back up QB than what we currently have? Just in case. That's excellent management.

Andrew Berry took a chance that so far has cost the organization approximately 92M in 2022 and 2023. Could he spent more wisely? Yes! Could he have kept Dobbs? Yes!

All I’m saying is that maybe, just maybe, we blew our best chance to win the SB in many many years because of negligence in one single position, the back up QB.

For me that’s inexcusable. Berry is paid to avoid f&ck #ps.

Dawg, you simply have to stop making so much sense. Didn't you get the memo? This is a time for gloom, despair, and defeatism!

Seriously, excellent post

Are you sure Shanahan is light years ahead of Stefanski? I think Stefanski beat him with a backup QB that wasn't on the team to start the season. I think Stefanski has won 5 games this year without Nick Chubb. Shanahan lost every game that Deebo Samuel was out. I think one coach found a way to overcome adversity and one didn't. Now, Stefanski has to deal with more adversity. No best offensive weapon and no franchise QB. If DTR or anyone else can come in and find a way to win 4 football games because I think 10 wins gets the Browns in this year. Stefanski should be coach of the year.

It could be. The QB situation he is facing along with the other injuries are not of his own doing.

Well that's crappy news.

But as others have pointed out - we have a genuine, fearsome, super bowl caliber defense. We don't need great play at QB to go to the play offs and even win a round.

I could be wrong - because I don't see DTR in practice - but I hate the idea of trusting the offense to DTR who is probably going to be limited and more turn over prone than a vet we sign off the street. . . Give me a seasoned, below average journayman Vet please. Run game is okay. Between Njoku and Cooper we have 2 great receiving options. Our biggest risk of losing games is when the offense gives the ball away and the other team has a short field or defensive TD. Please - just get a game manager in who won't panic, won't try to do too much - won't be a turnover machine.

Other than the Tennesse game and the second half vs Balitimore we've had middling to bad QB in all our other games and we are 6-3. We narrowly lost 2 of those games with bad QB play. No idea why anyone thinks we can't just keep on chugging along.

Why is everyone whining over the trade of Dobbs...

#1 Dobbs was/is not the future of the franchise. He was an insurance policy.
#2 Did you like what you saw from DTR in the preseason? If you didn't then I don't know what to tell you....
#3 DTR had/has a huge upside. There is large development potential. And the Browns were not the only ones to see it.
#4 The Brown were only going to hold 3 QB's. 2 on the Active Roster and one on the Practice Squad.
#5 If you think DTR was going to make it to our practice squad or even "stay" there once placed there...you are fooling yourself.
#6 The ONLY way to keep the potential FUTURE talent was to keep DTR on the Active Roster. That is why he was named #2
#7 Since DTR is going to be number 2 that means you are releasing the others. Including Dobbs. No way does Dobbs make it to the PS.
#8 Getting something for Dobbs was better than releasing him.

It had nothing to do with whether Dobbs is better than DTR at this very moment....It was about going for it now without completely mortgaging the future. And developing a guy that has a similar skillset/playing style that Deshaun has...They can't put DTR on the PS...he is gone if we put him there...and then you would be whining about Berry putting DTR there making him available to some other team...

Dobbs is doing well for himself this year...but we couldn't keep him unless we thought he would be Deshaun's SUCCESSOR. He was a backup...flat out. Dobbs was/is not a developmental player for us with the POSSIBILITY to be a successor...But DTR is.

From literally the most hopeful I’ve felt about this team in 3 years to feeling like it’s toast in 3 days

I never expected to wake up this morning and read 5 pages of a game day thread in the Pure Football Forum.

Backup QB's are rarely ever the future of your team.


Considering he was playing against a lot of people now bagging groceries he looked pretty good.


Is that why he was still sitting there in round 5? When teams see a huge upside in a QB, they don't let him sit there until round 5.


Yep fifth round rookie prospects are on the active roster all the time in the NFL. [/sarcasm]


The Vikings disagree and they won their last two games with a guy you think wasn't worth keeping. Facts are not your friend.


But not better than having him on the roster right now would have been.


DTR is nothing but a fifth round rookie project. If the NFL, including the Browns thought he was more than that, he would have been drafted higher. All of this hyperbole doesn't change that.

I doubt the browns sign someone like foled or Ryan. The ladt thing they want is a QB CONTROVERSY. They would rather tank the season with a rookie qb then deal with the fan base being divided

DTR did not get a fair chance in his only start, that’s for sure. Maybe with the practice reps and time to prepare, we’ll see what the Browns saw in training camp. It’s all we can hope for. But they must get a veteran and banish PJ to the practice squad.

Hope the best for Deshaun's recovery. Nick Chubb just finished his final ACL surgery. Hoping both get back to 100%

D.T.R. OR BUST.
OR
Next Year!

Good post.

I went back to look for some of these "told you so" posters from when Dobbs was traded. None of them were there. Everyone in that thread agreed releasing Dobbs was a good move -- except you -- but not doom and gloom, just the simple notion that we were sacrificing experience and playbook knowledge. Facts.

And then anything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

I'm no longer going to argue with "bone-headed move". I think they've freely admitted that behind closed doors in Berea.

What kills me is the posters that insist this makes our FO "inept" and act like they owe them some "explanation for their stupidity".

"Season ticket holders get swindled yet again."

That stuff gets ridiculous.


This dumb move, at worst, has maybe cost us the Seattle game. No backup was jumping out to 'whip' the Ravens on a moment's notice.

So now we have DTR with seven weeks of psychological rehab since the disaster on Oct 1. If he looks unprepared and we can't generate any offense, this mistake becomes more egregious.

It would just be nice if people would shelve the crystal ball b.s. The FO doesn't have one, and if we were to trust most of the posters', we were destined for disaster since August anyway.

Let's just watch the games

woah.

First I thought when Conklin went down, that would be our major injury for the year. Then Chubb goes out in Week 2, and well, that blows. Now Watson is done, so in all reality the ceiling for our season is a wild card berth and getting bounced in the 1st round, if our D can play as well as they have and the running game takes over.

Baker would have been told to wrap it in duck tape and put WD-40 on it so he could keep playing…


What a difference a year and a half make.

jc

This is why I feel no player is worth what we gave up for Watson. Any chance we can get Brady to come out of retirement?

i am not sure if you are being sarcastic, MY comment was a reference to the Movie Animal House, because the line " My advice is to drink heavily" is also. I assumed it was obvious that no one thinks Germany bombed Pearl Harbor, although, after thinking about it, there are some US HS graduates that probably don't know.

Lets examine this:

The Browns could back a brinks truck up to his home, but Tom isn’t hurting for money.

I’m pretty sure Tom and Baker talk and are friends. I’m pretty sure Baker wouldn’t tell him how great it is to play for KS and JH.

So the ONLY bait we have to bring him out of retirement is a strong D and the high possibility of going to the big dance one more time. I’m not sure that is enough, but I hope it happens too.

And the last point I’ll make, is that I think he would still be under contract to the Bucs anyway. Or did they released him to retire as a Patriot? I’m not sure.

Uh we won’t be signing Tom Brady. So no need to explain why

What?

Brady is 2 years past being able to play effectively in the NFL.

I'm surprisingly nonchalant about all this. Yes, it's a bitter disappointment, but think about it:

This team has managed a .667 record without Nick Chubb and without Deshaun Watson, for the most part. What that means: the Browns have dealt with catastrophic injuries and an unusually high number of nagging injuries to even get to this point. And, this is key: never once, have I seen any signs of 'quit' in any of them. They have found a way. They have made a way. And our boys are still toe-to-toe with the teams that used to bully them on a regular. That is evidence of the "change of culture" I've been ranting about for 20 years in this community.

These Browns are nobody's door mats. Ask any of the Ravens players who have been sitting in ice baths and lying on training tables, since Sunday's epic. Elves have been for real all along.

We all believed that this team would run on the strength of #24's ground production and #4's ability to return to form. Fun Fact: this year's Browns team has not been able to rely upon either of those assets/weapons all year. And yet, here we are: beginning the second half of the season 1 game out of first place. How long has it been since Fandawgs have seen their team in such a strategic spot at this point in the season? How often, since 1999?

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I'll speak this truth for myself: I can't remember a season when this team has entertained me more. Maybe the playoff year with those back-to-back wins over the Stoolz, but that was weird- empty stadiums, and all...

Njoku: 13 yards gained after point of contact. Freight train.
Tillman drops Van Noy (I loved seeing a Browns player flip the script on a Division rival who's been punking us for >20 years)
The Rugby Scrum
The Pick 6
OL producing another 178 ground yards.

...and that's just the most recent game. You don't get to 6-3 without effort like this overall.
Point: this team has earned its 6-3 record. Without its 'stars.' And with a rotating roster of wounded still giving it all.

I can't wait to see what's next. Why?
...because we're halfway into the 2023 season, and the Cleveland Browns are not 3-6.
Remember what that felt like? I'm certain you do.

_________________

I'm with Rish on this one.
Until I see any signs of "the same old Browns," I'm going to keep watching what this current bunch will do. They are still writing their chapter in this story. There are still many blank pages.

I simply don't have room for doom & gloom.
I'm too busy having fun watching this bunch deal with everything the refs, the NFL and The Fates throw at them. They ain't stopped; they ain't quit. They've dealt with everything up 'til now, and I've seen no evidence that they might start giving up now.

I'm still down for this ride, even if #4 isn't driving the bus.


.02

I don't see that as the reality. It may work out that way, but I don't think the players have given up on the season the way you have. Before the injury news spread, i was actually thinking we might be able to get home field advantage through the playoffs.

That is probably out, but we still have a shot at the division. I can see us still getting to 11 wins. No doubt there will be some close games in there and we will need our fair share of breaks.

At minimum, lets see how DTR plays on Sunday before we start writing off the season. What we saw in the 1st ravens game wasn't any sort of barometer.

As I said at 9:35AM yesterday

DTR, DTR, DTR

DTR, Let's see what the kid has. I think it is much much more than we saw earlier this year vs the Ravens. He only found out he was starting 90 minutes prior to starting the game. This team has an identity and that is of an overcomer. They have proved that so far and they will continue. If they can beat San Fran and Indy and almost beat Seattle with their QB going 1 TD and 5 INT's I think this team can find a way to get to 10+ wins yet this season. They do that and gain the confidence in that and when they get healthy next year look out!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/as-bro...lite-trajectory-is-fading-062356951.html

I'm less worried about Watsons skills and more worried about his durability.

If he starts the season healthy next year, there's no guarantee it will stay that way with his style of play.

I agree. Watson was 8-4 in games he started since he came to Cleveland and he was starting to really get better and better with his last 3 full games vs Tennessee, Arizona, and Baltimore. He was a very good QB in those games. He outperformed Lamer Jackson in Baltimore. He is older than he was when he played in Houston and when he comes back next year will need to protect himself better. Slide more when he runs and scrambles. I can't get over that hit he took vs the Titans at the 3-yard line and not think that was the hit that has cost him this season. They say this fracture happened vs the Ravens but I would not be surprised if it actually happened then and was just discovered or at least started the crack that became a fracture vs the Ravens.

Neither you nor I have a crystal ball to see what the future holds. I would have hoped that the FO would have been smart enough to consider that they were signing a player with that style of play who had previously had both knees reconstructed and put a plan B in place with a "What If." What I find comical and concerning is with the amount of money the Browns have spent the last 3-years (the most of any team by a longshot), the Browns have been reluctant to invest in reliable quality backups at the two most important offensive positions in LT and QB. At LT, Berry and Co. exercised a 5th year option on Wills who currently is PFF Graded at 54.0 ranking him 60th out of all NFL starting OT's who is now injured. It's not like there wasn't any history of performance red flags since he's continued to regress year after year. Now, he's been replaced by Hudson who has posted a PFF Grade of 42.5 ranking him 76th out of the NFL tackles ranked. Having 230M guaranteed in your franchise QB would make a person think that a quality investment in the person responsible for protecting your franchise investments blindside would be a priority.

Then to take it a step further, knowing the Watson story of injury history and lack of playing time the previous 3-years, the FO decides to finally manage the cap and save money by making a ridiculous low investment, after spending freely, in their QB room by installing a "Plan B" by having a rookie 5th round QB signed for $835,567 this year and a 3rd team QB who was an undrafted free agent for $617,222 this season. A 230M investment in a franchise QB coupled with a Plan B spend of $1,452,789 total cap investment in your backup QB's in a season where the franchise is "ALL IN!" Think about this, the Browns have as much invested in their long snapper Hughlett this year ($1,428,889 APY) as they do with their backup QB room.

It just makes you want to scratch your head and wonder why?

More rubbish

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/six-worst-trades-nfl-history-183105617.html

Rubbish, indeed.

Quoted to add: And that 6-3 is by way of going through the toughest part of our schedule, and we often did it DESPITE whomever our QB was at the time. All of them literally put points up for the other team that we had to overcome. What remains of our schedule is FAR easier. If we can pull out the 'W' this week, we're in the driver's seat to the postseason. We can do that with DTR.

Could we see a certain GOAT come out of retirement and join the Browns in their quest to win the franchise’s first Super Bowl? Crazy as it sounds, BetOnline actually lists retired signal-caller Tom Brady as the +300 favorite to be the next quarterback signed by the Browns.

2012 second overall pick Robert Griffin III has the second-best odds at +400 (he played for the Browns in 2016), followed by former MVP Matt Ryan (+600) and Super Bowl 52 hero and MVP Nick Foles (+600).


https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/...JOpE861Zy6iTtWt7WH6dFpYafzOERx7wrLc8LmAU

Revisiting Deshaun Watson trade two years later: Texans fleece Browns by capitalizing on major draft capital

Houston scored big on its picks from the Watson deal

The Cleveland Browns believe they have their franchise quarterback in Deshaun Watson, although he's spent more time off the field in a Browns uniform than on it. From suspension to now season-ending shoulder surgery, Watson will have missed a total of 22 of 34 games once the regular season comes to a conclusion.

Keep in mind the Browns paid Watson $230 million in fully guaranteed money, as Watson carries a $63.977 million cap hit over the next three years. Cleveland can't even get out of the deal until 2027, as the Browns would pay a $136.9 million cap penalty in 2024 or a $73 million cap penalty in 2025 by releasing him.

Basically, Cleveland is stuck with Watson's contract. Which brings us back to the controversial deal that sent Watson to Cleveland in the first place. The Browns acquired Watson from the Houston Texans in exchange for first-round picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, along with a 2023 third-round pick and 2024 fourth-round pick. The Texans also sent the Browns a 2024 fifth-round pick.

Based on Watson's performance and injury history, the Browns made a bad trade. What the Texans got in return only makes the deal that much worse for Cleveland.

What the Texans received

2022 first-round pick: G Kenyon Green (via trade)
2023 first-round pick: DE Will Anderson Jr. (via trade)
2024 first-round pick: TBD
2023 third-round pick: WR Tank Dell (via trade)
2024 fifth-round pick: TBD

The Texans used some creative maneuvering of draft picks to get three lynchpins for their franchise thanks to having extra first-round picks as part of the Watson deal. Houston selected Green after originally having the No. 13 pick from Cleveland, but the Texans traded down two spots with the Philadelphia Eagles and selected Green at No. 15 overall. The Texans also received the 124th, 162nd and 166th overall selections from the Eagles, which they actually used in a series of other deals to land wide receiver John Metchie III (second round), linebacker Christian Harris (third round), running back Dameon Pierce (fourth round) and Thomas Booker (fifth round).

With the 2023 first-round pick, the Texans traded up with the Arizona Cardinals to draft Anderson -- right after they selected C.J. Stroud with their own pick at No. 2 overall. Houston also ended up receiving Arizona's fourth-round pick, but traded it to Philadelphia for a 2024 third-round pick.

Houston traded up four spots to land Dell at the No. 69 pick from the Los Angeles Rams, getting a key wideout for Stroud in the process. The Texans also exchanged sixth-round picks and used that pick to acquire two seventh-round picks. One of the seventh-round picks they used to select safety Brandon Hill. Houston used the other seventh-round pick to trade back up into the sixth round and select wide receiver Xavier Hutchinson.

Here are the players the Texans landed in the Watson deal after their draft trades so far:

Kenyon Green
John Metchie III
Christian Harris
Dameon Pierce
Thomas Booker
Will Anderson
Tank Dell
Brandon Hill
Xavier Hutchinson
2024 first-round pick
2024 third-round pick

What the Browns received

Deshaun Watson
2024 fifth-round pick: TBD

The Browns traded a lot to get Watson, and they just haven't gotten the performance for what they gave up to acquire him. Watson is 8-4 in his 12 starts with the Browns, but he has completed 59.8% of his passes for 2,217 yards and 14 touchdowns to nine interceptions (81.7 rating). Watson has averaged just 184.8 pass yards a game with the Browns.

Of the 44 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts over the past two seasons, Watson is 37th in passer rating (right above Carson Wentz). Watson is 41st in completion rate, 34th in touchdown passes, 14th in interception percentage (2.6), and 37th in yards per attempt (6.5).

That's a lot of money tied to a quarterback who's at the bottom of the league in many statistical categories. The Browns have a very good roster, but just aren't getting what they paid for with Watson -- even if his shoulder injury could derail their season.

If the Browns get this type of production from Dorian Thompson-Robinson and win games, this could be a major problem going forward. Watson is still the quarterback, but he's at replacement level.

Cleveland paid a lot to get Watson -- and is not getting the bang for its buck.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...Dzzz7Dyr6ase-dszYky0jEtRx4PRkpNjLdZ63psI

Ditto, and people here ran the last QB out of town who, according to the stats, performed better than we got in exchange.

Of the 44 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts over the past two seasons, Watson in 12 games is 37th in passer rating (right above Carson Wentz). Watson is 41st in completion rate, 34th in touchdown passes, 14th in interception percentage (2.6), and 37th in yards per attempt (6.5). Add a sack % of 9.8 and Passing Success Rate Percentage of 39.9%.

Of the 33 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts in 2021, Mayfield in 14 games rated 27th in passer rating, 27th in completion rate, 22nd in touchdown passes, 28th in interception percentage (3.1), and 17th in yards per attempt (7.2). We can add a sack % of 9.3 and Passing Success Rate Percentage of 44.3%.

If you're unfamiliar with Passing Success Rate: A successful pass gains at least 40% of the yards required on 1st down, 60% of the yards required on 2nd down, and 100% on 3rd or 4th down. Denominator is pass attempts + times sacked.

Now Mayfield is gone and that was the decision the Browns decided to go with moving forward. Now Watson may have a higher upside based on performance prior to coming to Cleveland but actual production in a Browns uniform spells it was a bad decision considering the Browns have actually got poorer play from Watson compared to Mayfield's 2021 season according to the stats. It can't be ignored that Mayfield didn't have the #1 NFL Defense supporting him either. If Watson is better than Mayfield, he hasn't shown it in a Browns uniform as of yet.

Spin it any way you want, the actual performance on the field tells the real story.

Unavailable in 22 out of 34 games. 64,7%. That’s the bottom line after two seasons.

We can all judge from our own expectations what we think of the outcome of this trade but something says to me that we were sooooo close…. to something great…. That’s why I’m so disappointed and frustrated because it could have been handled better.

Right now the trade doesn't look all that good I will admit. However, as some other posters have pointed out, it's not over yet. We still have 3 more years. After that, just like the draft, you can assess the trade and our situation. This is not DW's last year with us.

Guys, his career is over. I’ve been negative Nelly on this thread over the last couple days and I apologize but here is my reasoning…
I’ve been through a shoulder surgery before. To make a long story short, I fell on my arm the wrong way and broke my shoulder at the top of the humerus bone. It didn’t hurt too much and I thought it was a sprain.- After my initial X-Ray, I was (obviously) referred to an orthopedic surgeon. The first thing that he did was ask me to lift my arm - I couldn’t. The next thing that he asked me was to move my shoulder into his hands.- Press the far end my collarbone into his hands.- I could. He then sent me to a neurologist who ran some sort of device (similar to an ultrasound) up and down my arm. His first words to me “It’s a good thing that you didn’t sever this nerve because if you did, you wouldn’t be able to lift this arm again”. - Think like being able to bend your elbow but not being able to reach for anything. Scary. I had the surgery, plates and screws and all that good stuff.. etc etc. afterwards, the surgeon noted that my rotator cuff looked fine and referred for physical therapy.
My point…. They’re telling DW that his shoulder could “fall apart” if he continues and gets hit. I’m not a doctor but is body is sending him a message -“No more of this”.

It’s not DW’s fault and it’s not our management’s fault for making the trade. But the guy should retire. I’d hate to see him get hit again and lose functionality of his arm.

If that’s the case then we’re probably looking at DTR for our QB for at least the next three years.

stop injecting common sense into this forums eyeballs...

also.... tonight may gf said to me 'I heard at work that the browns are a notoriously bad football team... I replied..."yea babe, that's my identity'

Muni even admitted he’s not a doctor, let alone is he an orthopaedic specialist. But since muni says Watson’s career is over, we’ll have to accept that as fact.

I didn’t say that his career is over. I said that it’s a possibility that he needs to protect his arm so that he can lift it in the future.

Calling it now, this team will somehow make the playoffs and go deep. We will win at least one playoff game.

I laugh hysterically anytime the average Joe compares a personal malady to that of NFL player and expect people to take it seriously.

NFL players are in pinnacle shape and have access to not only the best medical care, but as importantly, 24hr access to the best rehab available. Just stop with worthless analogies.

Watson will be fine next year.

I think DW will be ready to go next year too.

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
1m
Joe Flacco is the only QB working out for the #Browns today, a source said. They'll add someone to practice squad or active roster by the time they prep for Denver next week. TBD is that happens this week or next

You....literally started your post by saying that...

They also have been conditioned to push their bodies WAY past the point any of us weekend warriors. If his shoulder can be repaired so that he can throw a ball, he's gonna do it and be back out there ASAP, long-term health be damned.

Drew Brees had the same injury before he went to New Orleans. I think he did just fine with the Saints.

Yeah, if we get post-shoulder injury Drew Brees, I won't complain. Not saying it's going to go that way, but heaven willing...

j/c recovery time for a glenoid fracture surgery is roughly 6-12 weeks, so - in theory - it may be conceivable that Watson returns for the postseason.

Yes, however, Brees wasn’t suffering from depression, cant handle any kind of pain, can’t handle negative media/fans because his ego is so fragile, wants to sit out because he hates it here and wants to play somewhere else. I’m probably missing some other issues he’s going through and this are his issues just for this year!

Have we ever had a QB play a complete season? Not having viable backups is insane.

You are missing a lot. Any actual evidence any of those things are true is what you're missing. He played hurt with a shoulder injury. He also was playing much better before he was sidelined. There's nothing substantial to indicate anything you said there is true.

Burrow is out for the season per Ian Rapoport.

Cincinnati has first-year Jake Browning as their backup. I guess they were ill-prepared for a backup QB too.

Two weeks in a row Baltimore has season-injured a starting AFCN QB. I guess that is one way to help your chances of winning a division.

Showing how there are others in the league who made the same mistake doesn't lessen the mistake. Especially when you had a capable backup on the roster and traded him away for a ham sandwich and a six pack.

From the Bengals Board lol

Now there's no way we'll get AJ Mccarron!

Check the Fax machine!

Back off man, he's a diagnostician, mental and physical. You can tell DW doesn't want to be here because he played with both injuries and led us on the game winning drive.

It’s sarcasm. It wasn’t directed at the poster. My point was Brees didn’t have the crazy negativity from the media and fan base. Those are just some of the crazy opinions that were out there

Pitt, everything is this for that! Pay more for a backup QB you might not use. It means you pay less for a backup at another position, maybe WR. You could possibly use the backup receiver in every game.

I get the QB position is the most important. In the end, Flacco is available and Berry did not need to pay him for the first half of the season. You could argue there are better options, but that would come at a price.

I always think roster building is the best debate around. There are so many ways it can be done and everyone's ideal roster is the correct one!

On a side note, I did not think Flacco was available. I'm not sure when the last time Flacco played behind a good OL. This could actually be a really good signing.

LOL! Her husband is a Browns fan. They will be drinking long and hard.

Jc

Should’ve drafted Lamar. Far more durable than Watson and Burrow have been.

Letting Joe Burrow play probably wasn’t the most sensible decision to take and I’m not totally comparing his situation to Deshaun Watson but there’re some similarities.


My experience is that organizations with healthier working environments have a better chance to reduce “unlucky” decisions when the pressure to win is demanding.

I talked about this before. You need leaders with good values and strong principles who’s brave enough to look beyond short term results. It’s not easy because a GM/HC and players are living in a result oriented environment where bad results can cost money and jobs, but my experience is that executive leaders like a GM/HC who hold on to sensible values even in stressful situations last longer and in the end can produce better results. (but it’s easier to say than to do…)

From the Browns perspective I lay most of the blame on the owners, a good culture mostly starts at the top and those beneath in the organization often mirror their master.

I've begrudgingly become a Lamar fan over time. I like the player and the person.

Unfortunately he plays for the Ravens. Fortunately he's beatable, but makes it very hard.

I think the Browns are turning the culture thing around. I really don't understand the flack the Haslams continue to take. They are largely invisible, are willing to spend, haven't made a coaching or GM change in four years, we dont seem to have any issues signing free agents, and the team is firmly in the playoff hunt. I think the son-in-law can be an issue in the future, but other than that I think they've turned this thing around. I think...think...Berry and Stefanski are mostly respected in the league.

There just don't seem to be a lot of culture issues anymore, imo.

Haha jokes on me for saying his career is over and then moronically refuting myself. I’ll ask for understanding and forgiveness. I ended my workday Thursday evening at 750 pm and was tying one on when I started posting. I kept the party going when I woke up yesterday. Let’s just say that the Mrs.isn’t too happy with me. - Neither is my stomach, liver, head, and wallet.

I’m sure that he’ll return. From what I remember, I had my surgery in February and was golfing by late April that year.

That would be great if one doesn't stop to think about it for a minute. How hard is it to determine that your backup QB is far more important than you fifth or sixth WR on the roster? Often times teams miss the playoffs by a single game or two. That is the minimum time it will take to sign a FA QB and get him ready to start. The risk verses reward factor here is obvious.

Just a few counter points.


- Being invisible is probably a good approach but despite that we actually have no clue whatsoever if they’re (the Haslams) involved or not in key decisions.

- Willing to spend isn’t enough if the organization doesn’t use the money wisely. The jury is still out regarding the Watson deal . Secondly who has the final say whenever big contracts is involved?

- We don’t know if keeping our GM and HC has been the right decision or not when we don’t know what a new HC/GM could do. So that argument is hard to debate. We hired JS as our new DC and judging from that move it paid off to change an underperforming coach.

I had said it before and I say it again that AB deserves credit for this seasons success, especially our D has been outstanding. Despite all good trades there’re question marks about our back up QB.

Maybe he will prove us all wrong, maybe not, but judging from his earlier performances we pessimists have every right to be skeptical. I have felt safer if we have kept Dobbs.

Lol Muni. I’ve never posted here when drinking, not one time, ever, in my posting history.

Here's to ya!

Drinking? Me either…

Like, never.

Well, let's pop your cherry. Drinks are on me after tomorrow's big W... we'll tear this place up!

Lol, lost my cherry many seasons ago , and nights on DT

On a lighter note.

Every time a surgery is done. They always say it was successful.

I have never heard an announcement where the report said "well we really botched this one. He will be out for a long time."

I wanted Allen...

I dunno... Alex Smith had a few complications after his....

I've seen a few botched surgeries in my day, but you're right... NFL typically always reports they were 'successful'

LMAO...that was great.

“We didn’t know that he needed knee ligament repairs, we thought he needed a leg amputation. He should be ready to go for OTAs next spring.”

We almost took Allen.

Not dying on the table might be the success threshold.

Hey now...don't go letting pessimism seep into your heart/mind. You are way too optimistic for that nonsense - and I say that in a complimentary way and as you being a non-homer. If YOU lose optimism...our team may simply not have ANY. Thankfully they operated on the correct shoulder...see how easy that was?

Kinda wild because I posted that yesterday.

This morning one of the local Browns reporters on tv news said exactly the same thing.

Word for word.

We should have. Said it many times. We be the strike out king on busts.

well, I'm glad the surgery is behind him .. problem is, he's got another 9 months until he sees any real action again. That's so much missed time in your prime

When you suck at drafting QB's you can always buy one.

The Doof Dorsey screwed the pooch on that big time.

His one job was to get that #1 pick right and he chose the "Pied Piper" and "Leader of Men" over the 6'5" 240 lb. athletically gifted QB. Brilliant.

I don't think Baker was a bad choice, but it's hard to predict how the little things will impact a players trajectory.

Reading between the lines, and some of this is my opinion, but Baker's growth stopped after his rookie year. I think work ethic, maturity, surrounding himself with enablers, and an overconfidence from his rookie year were his undoing. He's also a bit mentally fragile.

I think it would have been hard to predict those types of things. I know that's what GMs get paid to do but, but you have all Baker's personality stuff vs Allen's inaccuracy, which as the saying goes, cannot be improved upon.

Tough call but I can see why they made it.

You can also not predict how a QB like Allen would have done with the team the Browns had at that time. The results very well may not have been the same.

I have always said the Browns liked Johnny Manziel so much they drafted him and then missed him so much they drafted his mirror image in Baker. I'll admit I wanted Sam Darnold. At that time, I would have also been happy with either Josh, Allen or Rosen. So, I can't fault Dorsey for his pick of Baker because he has proven to be better than Darnold and Rosen. But looking back skipping Josh Allen now looks really bad.  

One thing to keep in mind in rehashing all this is that Baker was selected while Hue Jackson was still our coach. There is NO WAY IN HADES Allen would have turned into the QB he is today given the environment he almost got drafted into... and there is no argument that would convince me otherwise.

I don't say that to excuse Dorsey, but just pointing out what I see to be basically fact.

At the time, I was leaning slightly in favor of JA, but one guy I absolutely did not want was LJ. Just goes to show my level of QB expertise....lol.

Other than being shorter and somewhat mobile, I actually don't see much of a comparison between Manziel and Mayfield.

IMO, that comparison was always a lazy one.

Both are shorter QBs that had a ton of success in college that were selected by the Browns. IMO, that's really where the similarities end. Even their personalities and ability to rub people that wrong way aren't really the same when you actually think about it.

Someone trying to turn apples to apples into magic mushrooms to cheesecake.

I think you're wrong, but I guess an argument would be futile lol. Half of that environment was gone six months later, the rest of the chicanery was over a year after that.

While I certainly won't dismiss your theory because I don't believe any of have a way of knowing for sure, if you look at the supporting cast on the roster at that time, especially at the WR position and the defense, I think the outcome of how Allen would have developed here is certainly in question.

His first full season would have been Chubb, Hunt, Landry, OBJ and Njoku... vs Gore, Singletary, John Brown, Beasley and Dawson Knox. I think there was definitely more talent at our skill positions. But you're right, there's no way of knowing.

Well if you don’t die on the table and they are able to complete the sergury, it’s a success…

I was Leary of Jackson as well due to RG3.... Jackson is an amazing athlete, but I was worried he'd get hurt while running and then be done like RG3.... he's proven to be a better. QB than I expected...

I see Lamar now. But before last year, I feared Huntley more than Lamar.