WE saw it this week against the Raiders.

Remember what I told all of you about rookie QB's? They do 3 things well:

1. hold the ball too long
2. make the wrong reads
3. throw interceptions.

Baker did all 3 of those things against Oakland. Both those fumbles were caused by him holding the dang ball too long.

We NEVER should have named Baker the starter so soon. that was NOT the plan. the reason the Browns fail is because they kneejerk and don't see their plans though.

the Baker Mayfield situation with the Jets should have been handled as:

"Mayfield came in and played well as a backup, we will evaulate Taylor and Mayfield later in the week and move forward then"

Once it became known Taylor couldn't play at Oakland due to the concussion it should have been announced that:

"Due to injury to Tyrod Taylor, Mayfield will start at Oakland, after the Oakland game we will re-evaluate Taylor and Mayfield and go from there"

To be frank, Once Taylor is healthy, the team should go back to him after what I saw of Mayfield Sunday. Mayfield did some good things, but he also turned the ball over 4 times and your not going to win games like that.

the defense blew the game against the Saints, Taylor had a very good game against the Saints and had us in position to win that game and special teams and D blew it.

Special teams and D blew the Steelers game too in other opportunities.

Its kneejerk to bench a Pro Bowl veteran QB after 2 games. In the Jets game Taylor got his bell rung twice before he was pulled, he probably didn't even know what was going on out there.

Do you know how many QB come in as a backup after the starter gets hurt and plays well? Does Frank Reigh Ring a bell? Kelly Holcomb? Matt Schaub? Scott Mitchell.

We fail because we base decisions off kneejerk nonsense instead of sticking to the damn plan.

Due to the way this was handled, their is no way they can go back to Taylor now...Because Jackson is such a dolt.

Your not going to win many games with a rookie QB, especially one who so far has shown a perchant for turning over the ball.

Look at Mahomes in KC, thats how you bring along a rookie QB...you sit him, and play him in spots his rookie year.

this team should go back to Taylor when he is healthy and let Mayfield sit and learn from his playing time he has gotten so far so we don't throw the kitchen sink at the kid and ruin him like we have ruined so many other promising players.

The Browns won't do that though. Mayfield was lucky to win the Jets game, had the Jets defender caught the ball in the endzone that hit him in the breadbasket, we would have lost instead of the Jets.

I fully believe Baker Mayfield CAN be the answer for us at QB, but its NOT this year. He isn't ready.

This is going to become woefully apparent against the Ravens, they are going to show him things he has never seen, and that pass rush of the Ravens is going to get to him QUICK, much faster then anything he has dealt with in his football playing career.

Mayfield will either have a horrible game against the Ravens, or get shelved for the year...he isn't ready yet, just like Desmond Harrison isn't ready yet.

Tyrod Taylor gives us the best chance to win when he is healthy, the New Orleans game proves Taylor can run this offense at a high efficeny without turning the ball over. Mayfield should have never been handed the golden ticket yet because he isn't ready...saldy we will probably see this reality 1st hand against the Ravens...the same Ravens D that held the Steelers to 14 points and made them look worse then us...its going to be ugly

If your ok with losing, keep trotting out the rookie while he learns(or gets ruined) or we actually try and win some games and start the Pro Bowl vet, I know what I would do, but then again, losing isn't a word in my vocabulary so i'll never just put up with it.

good news is i got a lot of stuff to do around the house, painting and such, so I won't have to watch the rookie get the hardest lessons of his life, if he survives the year that is...

Carson Wentz says to tell Pat hello for him ...

Use stats, use the eye test, use whatever metric you want.. this is just flat wrong.

Considering that Tyrod played 2.5 games and Mayfield played 1.5 games...

With Tyrod we scored 39 points, with Mayfield 63
Mayfield has thrown for 30 more yards on 20 fewer attempts.
Mayfield is completing 11% more of his passes
Tyrod was sacked 4x more than Mayfield (if you want to talk about holding the ball too long)
And last but not least, Mayfield made our FG kicker better.

I don't know how else to say it but this: with Taylor I felt zero confidence that we'd move the ball and/or score. With Mayfield I always think we have a chance to.

Rasta’s gonna LOVE this thread ... *L* ...

Nope.

The center exchange fumble was because he held the ball too long?!?

The other one, if I recall correctly, happened in about 2 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong about that, need to find a video. The pocket collapsed very, very quickly. Strips of balls when a QB is in throwing motion happen every week and to every QB at some point.

I didn't want to see him this soon either, but if you can't tell a difference when he is in there vs. Tyrod I'm not sure what you are watching. Look at the pass charts that have been posted, Tyrod NEVER went over the middle - Baker throws to anywhere.

He's going to make mistakes, I think he'll learn from them.

I'd say if you believe that sitting Baker longer would have helped, I agree.

If you say that starting him this soon wasn't the plan, I agree.

Circumstances often dictate a change in direction.

Saying any QB on our roster gives us a better chance of winning, everything from stats to the eye test show overwhelmingly that's as wrong as wrong can be.

I don't think Baker is 100% ready in fact I would have rather seen him sit for at least half the season. But, after watching him play I feel he gives us the better chance to win. I just hope he doesn't take a beating with the tough D's he will have to face.

You could not keep him out after watching Taylors horrific performance.

I think TT looked more like a rookie or Weeden flipper fest.

Some catching would help. Showcase runners. BM has done some of what I figured I would see from a rook. Much of it can be cleaned up. Some folks could catch; some could tackle.

We sent the D out too much. BM was next up.

There are some posts on this board that make me wonder if the poster is on drugs ..... then there are others that make me quite certain they are.

I think that Baker is the kind of guy who learns things very quickly, and the more things he sees on the field, the better he'll get. I am not worried about his psyche being crushed, or anything like that. He seems to be incredibly resilient, and his teammates believe in him completely. (and he also took the blame for a lot of his teammates' mistakes)

I see we have another forum member on LSD.

Quit disparaging LSD.

Again, I think posters like this NEED LSD to open their mind. This poster is obviously not on it.

Even with the turnovers, if you consider how much went wrong from 9 drops, his OC with his head in the 4th POC, and to still put up 42 points, I don't think you can put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. But I do think they need to do a better job putting him in position to be successful. Running the ball more is the obvious place to start. I'd try some RPO and see if you can get some quick hitters and slow down the pass rush a bit

Nah don't think so

Remember folks, this is the guy who spent February 2017 trying to convince us that drafting Myles Garrett would be the biggest mistake in franchise history.

Is this a serious thread or an Onion article?

Congrats OP! It's extremely difficult to achieve 100% disagreement, but you've done it. In case you were wondering, that makes you really really wrong.

Now, now .... there is one other certain poster who hasn't chimed in yet ......

The plan was in place to sit Mayfield.

Until circumstances showed unquestionably that Mayfield was the better option and gives the team a better chance to win.

Obviously you are writing what you believe.

However that does not represent what is clear to see.

smh

You do realize that Dalton, Flacco, and Roethlisberger all started as rookies and all 3 went to the playoffs...

Also, Mayfield is known for not turning the ball over.

There is so much incorrect information within your post.

Baker not getting any first team reps in training camp might have something to do with him not being 100% ready.

What makes him ready after half the season? Why not nine games?

Sorry man, I gotta disagree. I think they may have wanted to redshirt Mayfield, but they knew damn well that making Mayfield QB2 would result in him eventually starting before the halfway point of the season. We lost a hall of fame left tackle, and Tyrod Taylor plays risky in terms of being durable. It was going to happen, and the Browns tried to trick themselves into thinking they could sit Mayfield all year. If they really wanted to stick to the plan, Stanton would be starting. Hue knows his job is on the line.

Both the fumbles were not the result of Mayfield holding the ball too long. One fumble was on a center/QB exchange, and the other happened just as he hit his 3rd or 4th step on the dropback.

Baker played well. He looked skittish in overtime, but I thought the playcalling was a total letdown. Why not run the ball after Oakland missed that FG? Even if you don't get a first down, you can punt the ball and pin them in. You did your rookie QB no favors.

I just don't understand how you can even consider wanting to go back to Taylor. The run game was horrible. The defense was clearly getting frustrated. Baker comes in and you're scoring points left and right.

Not to mention, above everything else, he looks ready to take on the role. That is most important.

We all have these dreams of being able to sit a quarterback for a year (or more, some people actually believe Rodgers is great because he sat so long, LOL) but the nature of the beast, is that if you really wanted that, you'd have built an offense around Tyrod Taylor, and signed a better QB. The Browns were looking for a reason not to start Mayfield from day one, and pin all their hopes to a rookie. They were clearly just trying to protect the guy, but right now he's Hue Jackson, and probably this entire coaching staff's best hope to see 2019.

No way I can handle watching footballs falling 3 yds behind open receivers..

So far Baker has one up on TT...


And the 42 points he scored...hasn't been done since 2007.


Haley should of kept running the ball..


I'm ready for more Baker...jmo.

I like how he uses Mayfield holding the ball too long. Not only is Mayfield faster than Tyrod, Tyrod is the slowest QB to get rid of the ball in the NFL.

Mayfield is our starter. Let's move on.

Forgive me for saying this but Tyrod Taylor just does not see the field as well as Baker Mayfield does. The ball gets hiked, Mayfield peddles back, scans, and BOOM! The ball is out from there. Now with Tyrod, he holds onto the ball way too long, even if people are open down field he doesn't throw any intermediate passes or take any chances at all. He always checks down and takes the safe option. Well sometimes risk is needed to win the football game.

The other day the only bad thing Mayfield did in my opinion was go for that long throw before going into OT. He didn't need that long throw but he was trying to win the game for the team. This is what I want my QB to do, but it was a bad decision and he will learn. Other than that he played absolutely excellent.

You can't say with a straight face that Tyrod Tayor can actually move the offense and put up points because the fact is that he can't...And that is why he is on the bench and Baker Mayfield is the starter. Mayfield brings excitement, an inner drive to win, he makes other players around him try hard, believe, and want to win!!!! These and other measurable qualities is why he is the starter right now.

Seriously??...Do you have eyes to see?

I think you forgot what a real QB looks like and being a Browns fan, I'll give you a pass on that, pardon the pun.

Well stated, but I disagree.

There is a day and night difference between whet we have done with Bake under center and TT.

Yep, Bake is going to make mistakes. That's a part of it.

I can live with it, especially if we still stick 42 on the board.

Even if we take away Chubbs 2 long runs and assume we got nothing, we still have 28...28 should win you more than a few games.


It's all good man. Take the good with the bad and try to enjoy the ride.

Bake is going to have some crappy games, but so far we have seen the glimmers of hope that make many think he has a high ceiling and a high floor.

That is all you can ask for.

Look I understand the passion, but throwing insults at me is both unprofessional and classless.

Just because it may be perceived that Mayfield gives us the best chance to win does NOT mean we should put him out there anyways. He is still rookie, and we can do far more harm to him and his potential by pushing the envelope too soon.

Do you realize Tom Brady the GOAT said and I quote:

"HAD I STARTED AS A ROOKIE I PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE IN THE LEAGUE TODAY. - TOM BRADY

Tony Romo said and I quote:

"It takes 2 years to really know whats going on as an NFL QB." - Tony Romo.

the plan was to play Taylor this year. We should have followed that plan no matter what. We were not going to the playoffs this year, nor were we competing for the division.

The plan was to develop the roster and develop a QB, we turned over most of the roster from last year, that is a development time.

All the Qb meantioned being good their rookie years had much better teams around them.

Big Ben for example had - Bettis, Alan Fancea, Hines Ward for starters

The plan was to sit Mayfield. THAT WAS THE PLAN AND WE SHOULD HAVE STUCK TO IT.

When are Browns fans going to learn. How many times are we going to draft 1st rd Qb and then put them out their to play before they are ready and ruin them?

QB ARE DEVELOPLED! QB ARE DEVELOPED! QB ARE DEVELOPED! QB ARE DEVELOPED!

We are not an established NFL team with 3-4 Prop Bowler or a few All pro players like the Falcons were with Ryan, like the Steelers were with Ben, Like the Ravens were with Flacco, etc...all the rookie Qb that succeed you will find have 3-4 All pro guys on the roster between O and D...we don't have any All Pro Pro bowl guys except maybe Landry, everyone else has not proven longterm that they are top quality players.

the reason I am so passionate about this is because I truly believe that Mayfield IS THE GUY, he is...he is the guy OF THE FUTURE and that future is not until next year, and we are going to ruin this kid just like we ruined Kizer.

It doesn't matter what Mayfields personality is, when the losses start racking up, when he starts second guessing himself, when he starts to loose confidence in his team mates, loses confidence his receivers, guys making mistakes, I don't care who you are, that is going to weigh on anyone with a competitive fire and that kinda stuff can easily end up putting that fire out even in guys like Mayfield.

We handled this completely wrong, us Browns fans and this organization just simply can't get out of our own ways...we rush things, driven on pure emotion, we never give anything time to grow.

Baker Mayfield is the fresh corn seed planted in the Corn Field 3 weeks ago that we ripped up out of the ground because we expected it to have grown corn already.

Taylor wasn't even given a fair chance...he is a veteran guy who has been in the Pro Bowl twice in 3 years...that alone would have guaranteed him significantly more leeway in any other city...

We were not going to contend this year, the plan was to let Taylor play, take the lumps, etc and give Baker time to develop so he could step into the team next year with a solid grasp on the playbook, and what it is to be an NFL QB.

I fully believe Haslam over ruled Dorsey on sitting Mayfield, and its a mistake and we are going to pay for it.

We as a fan base have no damn patience at all to develop anyone and we wonder why we fail....The Browns are NBOT the rest of the NFL with an established team, with a few All pro guys, and we will NOT get solid QB play until we invest 100% into developing a QB and developing a roster, and you don't do that by playing a guy before he is ready on a roster that isn't adequate which is exactly what we have done with Mayfield...."Sigh"....we will never learn it seems...never learn...

Carson Wentz, Payton Manning and John Elway and about 50 other very good - great QB’s say hello ...

Exactly. Mayfield is still a rookie, he's going to have his moments which drive us up the wall, but he's also undoubtedly proven that he is the best quarterback on the roster.

Personally, I think Mayfield is taking too much heat for his turnovers against the Raiders. The pick-six was off Callaway's hands. I'll never count them as an interception. The fumble on the snap, I don't know if that's on Mayfield or Tretter. Outside of that, it's two turnovers. Not the end of the world for a rookie on a high snap count.

Compared to his production output, I think he's held on to the ball well. We're not seeing Kizer-esque levels of turning it over or anything. Admittedly, Kizer was a raw second round pick, but Mayfield is still a developing rookie in his own way.

I don't have any questions about Mayfield starting now. I love the plan to sit him, but injury forced him on the field and he's proven that he belongs out there.

I hope we can all be patient. I think of Goff, Trubisky, etc. Mayfield, at the same point of his career, is significantly further ahead than the others.

If this is just his developing stage, I'm really excited to see him next year with experience under his belt.

I can see your point somewhat. If Taylor hadn't gotten hurt in the 3rd game, he's probably still be starting. And I would agree that we should stick with him.

But the fact is he did get hurt. And then Mayfield came in and the results were obvious to anyone with eyes. He was soooo much better than Taylor that there was just pretty much no way to go back.

And then in the very next game Mayfield put up the most points in 12 years. He proved that he IS ready to start, no matter what anyone else thinks. Sure he'll make mistakes. 12 year veterans make mistakes too. Despite his mistakes he put up 42 freakin' points. That will win you a lot of games.

Nope. Taylor did nothing.

Give Mayfield his chance, let him develop. That is the best option for now.

He is taking too much heat and it's STUPID.

Callaway SLIPPED and the ball deflected off his hands. NOT ON MAYFIELD.

The 2nd pick was one where he shoulda found something underneath. Wasn't that like 3rd and 5ish?

The botched snap was on Tretter. He said so much himself.

The other fumble was a collapse of the right side of the line FAST.

Even with 4 turnovers, he STILL laid 42 on the Raiders. And if memory serves me, only ONCE did he start on a somewhat short field. The 50 yard pick return by Randall. Everything else was from drives.

Baker has earned this shot and we need him. I wanted to sit him behind TT this year to develop. That ship has sailed for a few reasons. First, I thought too highly of TT and drank the koolaid. Truthfully he did not produce as I thought he might. Second, BM's output has been solid overall. And the team plays harder for him than TT.

Play it as it lays. Mayfield gives us a better shot to win, much more than Taylor. if this is Mayfield's time, I do not want to interrupt or screw up his bonding or whatever with the starters. It is fair to let him do all he can, not just see what he can do like a lab rat. I do not think he is holding anything back.

I get your point.

However, every case is different. You can
not generalize about when to start a rookie.

Mahomes had Alex Smith in front. Rodgers had Farve. Brady had Bledsoe.

Ideally I agree with sitting a rookie. But again each case is different.

TT was not effective. He was missing reads. He was inaccurate. Then he got hurt which given the way he plays and his reliance upon his legs as part of his game; was likely to happen.

Mayfield brought a whole different vibe to the offense. It was crystal clear. He has played with confidence. He hit receivers in stride. He made tight throws into small windows. He showed escapability while continuing to keep his vision downfield. He moved the offense and scored.

Where are the Browns? We are a work in progress. We are good enough to compete weekly. Are we going to make the playoffs? Not likely. Not likely under Tyrod or Mayfield.

So what can be gained this year? Mayfield can gain experience. Experience only gained from playing. He can develop with the young players around him. Players who are the future of this team.

At this point sitting Baker is useless. If Tyrod had not gotten hurt he would still be starting.

However, he did and Baker showed that he is the better player even as a rookie.

It makes no sense to go backward. This is Baker's team.
And the players know it.

If he was getting beat around like Couch, David Carr, and some other rookie QBs on really bad teams from the past, I would be on board with you 100%. But he's not.

If he wasn't seeing the field at all, was throwing a bunch of bad interceptions and having his confidence crushed, I would be on board with you 100%. But he's not.

If he looked like he was struggling to get the playbook and struggling to move the ball or score points, I would be on board with you 100%. But he's not.

If he looked, in any way, like the situation was too big for him and he was playing timid and scared, I would be on board with you 100%. But he's not.

In short, the two main premises of your position:
1. Tyrod give us a better chance to win now
2. Baker will be ruined by starting this year...

I see absolutely no evidence that either of those are true.

DC WINS THE THREAD!

Baker actually played very good. So don't know what you're talking about.

There is no way that Tyrod should start over Baker. Tyrod hasn't shown us much and from what I've seen so far? He's average at best. He can't anticipate throws most of the time and because of this he holds onto the ball too long.

Simply put, Baker's just a much better QB than Tyrod.

Note: Tyrod can run better, but that's about it.

When Baker was named the starter TT was in concussion protocol. And when was the last time we had a rookie QB get this team to put up 42 points?

Also, against the Jets, that offense put up 21 in just over a half.

So he's averaging 21 points a half.

Just under, because he played a series and a kneel down in the 1st half of the Jets game ..... but you are really close.

I would have to say the team is averaging 21 points a half. Unless Mayfield entered Chubb's body and rushed for two TD's.

This is true, yet is seems to be customary to give QBs credit for all points scored by the offense when they are at the helm.

I can't even respond to this (with anything logical). Pretty good OP satire though.

Ok, Captain Nitpicky..

The TEAM... under Tyrod for almost 5 full halfs of football was averaging about 7.8 points per half..

The TEAM... under Mayfield for about 3 full halfs of football is averaging 21 points per half..

The only real change to the TEAM.. was switching QBs...

You can move the numbers by a few decimal points depending on how you count the FG at the end of the first half of the Jets game... but that's pretty insignificant..

And for the record, I do not have ANY expectations that Mayfield is going to hang 21 per half on the Ravens.. would love to see it but would bet the house against it... if he can score 21-24 points with no INTs this week, regardless of the outcome, I think it will have been a pretty successful performance by him.

Bake made the FG KICKER BETTER ... *L*

I didn't know Mayfield could scramble like that! Wow, the kid can change uniforms quick! lmao

Yep Mayfield is a bust and sucks! You just can't give him any credit at all.

Ya think the D was playing back and for the pass not the run like they normally do against us. Cause we finally got a QB who can pass and if they play the Game plan of stop the run and make the QB win the game - we got a QB that can win. So much so that we had a RB get past the edge and out ran everyone. So that a fan like you can say any QB can hand the ball off so Mayfield has no influence in scoring 21 points a half when out there. Is that what you are saying.

yep he sucks!

I give him credit on these boards all the time.

But in case you missed it, he's not the RB.

Keep on keepin' on tab. lmao

Trying as hard as I can, but I cannot see how you came to this conclusion from the text you quoted above.

If and when you don't give Mayfield 100% of the credit for what every player on the field does, this is what you get from tab.

That and he has a crow to pick with me.

Hope that helps.

Gotcha.

That is as well put as could possibly be.
That sums my thoughts exactly.
Nothing more needs said!

You don't have to give Mayfield 100% of the credit for what everybody did. But for 2 1/2 games we struggled to move the ball and we struggled to score points.. for 1 1/2 games we moved the ball well and scored a lot more points.

at the intersection where things changed we replaced one person... divide up the credit however you would like.

See, I understand we have 11 men on both sides of the ball.

At some point someone has to give Chubb credit for his part.

I can see how many find that an illogical conclusion.

You totally don't have a clue as to what DC was saying, do you?

I certainly do. It seems you're following me around now? lmao

I see it as the other way around.

You, sir, are following me. Failed smear attempt in a different thread.


See, HERE, we are talking about the difference in qb's, and points scored. It's pretty easy to follow along, really.

The Browns score more points with Mayfield than they did with Taylor. That's not even in question.

Why did the running game open up some? Maybe it was because the Browns had a qb that..........you know, throws the ball downfield, and defenses need to account for that?




But........damn, Mayfield is white, and Taylor is black, so I suppose you'll try to paint me as racist again.

You're rambling about something that never happened. Get a grip arch. This is pure football.

Chubb has had very limited carries. He took full advantage of that. I'm not going to neglect to give him credit for his rushing accomplishments.

It's pretty simple. Give each player credit where credit is due.

Absolutely, give credit where credit is due.

Chubb got rookie of the week.




That has nothing to do with the discussion that was taking place.

I, and others, sincerely feel that having a qb that throws down field can, and HAS opened up the running game.

Why you denying the OL the credit they deserve for those runs and the WRs blocking downfield? Why you wanna give Chubb 100% of the credit.. sheesh, some people..

And I give Mayfield credit for every yard he passes for. Maybe I should start giving Chubb credit for Mayfields passing yardage too?

Better yet, maybe you could understand football? I know that's asking a lot of you.

If Chubb keeps breaking off long runs then that would be a little appropriate.... Chubb (or Hyde or Duke) breaking off long runs forces the defense to focus on stopping it, making it easier to throw.. if Mayfield is completing passes down the field it opens up the run.. these things don't happen in a vacuum..

Which brings me back to my original point.. after we switched QBs, we had more passing yards and more rushing yards... Hyde, Chubb, and the OC all remained the same... the QB changed. So, while Mayfield didn't actually run the ball himself, it's very possible he had influence on the success of the running game.

PitDawg is just hoping his pre-draft Mayfield comments pay off.

Is giving credit to one player denying it to another? Can't credit be given to both Chubb for his running abilities, Mayfield for the effect he has had on both our offense and the opposing defenses, and still have some left over for the OL and WR for their blocking?

Man, this is like reading "who's on first".

And "What's on 2nd". My Lord. Smh

Should we give Chubb credit if his missed block doesn't result in a sack?

I don't know.

I look forward to the day that some people on here talk football instead of talking about respect, smear, and other crap.

Some of you are worse than teenagers. Grow the hell up.

Its ok Cap, Pit does not think Mayfield is our Franchise QB, he thinks its a moral imperative to let all know that he is not special.

make sense. Look at his remarks, Mayfield is not the RB so he cannot be responsible for the 42 points.

That is what I'm talking about. Mayfield makes all better around him and just because we ran the ball and scored two long TDs to say that the 42 points were not a result of Mayfield being at QB.

Right now Pit hates me and I am not too fond of him either.

Still if one cannot understand the game of football and insist that our FRANCHISE QB is not responsible for the production of this offense. Then I will point it out to him or her.

I will try to be as honest as I can. I will try to keep personal crap out of the equation but just to let you know it goes both way and I'm honest about it.

Mayfield point blanks gives this offense a different look.

Mayfield is the first starting QB that defies the LONG LONG TIME GAME PLAN of Stop the Run and let the Browns QB beat us.

We have a lot of Wins ahead of us as the Offense can score on anyone with Mayfield at the helm and as long as the defense continues to get better as long as we learn how to catch the freaking ball. Things will turn around for us.

Hope that answers your question.

You're just lying again Tab. I do think Mayfield may very well end up being our franchise QB. You just don't like me so you're spreading lies and being nasty. Nothing new there. lmao

So instead of throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks, let's look at what some posters are saying and see how it stacks up with the facts, shall we? Here's what's being said. Since Mayfield is starting, it opens up the run. Our #1 RB has been Carlos Hyde with far more carries than any other RB by a large margin. It's not even close. So how has his production been this season?

Against the Steelers he had 22 carries and averaged 2.8 yards per carry.

Against the Raiders he carried 22 times for an average of 3.7 yards per carry.

Now unless I'm missing something here, the Steelers D is quite a but better than the Ravens D so it only stands to reason his average yards per carry would be somewhat better. Nobody can seriously say that averaging less than 4 yards per carry means the run game has suddenly opened up. That's just nonsense.

So the fake outrage you seem to present means nothing. Mayfield hasn't caused the run game to suddenly open up. Unless you think averaging 3.7 yards per carry by our feature back is some revelation. ( Just a hint, it's not )

Mayfield is a much better QB than TT. In the small window we've seen of him he has shown a lot of promise.

But he's not the reason Chubb had two long TD runs.

lying..oh ignorant one...lol

I don't know you to like you or not... I don't respect you as a poster. That is true. Stats is for losers which of course you happen to be one...lol yep one yards per carry is better but in your eyes Steelers D actually defies the stats cause why? Oh you say so...was a bs artist you are.

You seem to skip over the 33 yard average run of Chubbs...what a bs artist trying to lie with stats and your just aren't good at it. Maybe cause you don't know football...lol

He's not the reason why Chubb had two good runs...cause you say so that makes it a fact.... nice try.

later liar.

Lets do stats and not cherry pick one back.

Here are the number for all of our backs for both games not counting the qbs.

-Steelers game 100 yards rushing avg. 3.3 yards per carry

-Raiders gamce 198 yards rushing avg. 7.3 yards per carry

See stats can be used to push and agenda many different ways. No one needs stats to see that Mayfield is a real threat to defenses down field where as TT is obviously not. Did it soften them up to getting gashed by the run? I believe so.

knight...good question...is it too soon for Mayfield to start?... but nearly impossible to answer without more information.

You have to give Mayfield a chance to prove himself on the field.

How long it takes to find an answer to the question will be determined by Mayfield's performance.

...the fans must give Mayfield "more time".

j/c:

Mayfield has been poised on the field. It's wrong to say he isn't ready.

I would have liked to see him sit for a few more weeks, but Taylor got injured and the O came alive w/Baker. You can't go back to Tyrod.

I think Baker will suffer some growing pains, but I think he will grow. Playing him is the best thing for him at this point.

I don't think we are ready to contend this year. It will be a year of learning and growth.

Next year should be the year for the team and Baker to make significant strides.

+1

I'm still very excited and hopeful to see Baker do well this year - despite the growing pains. The kid is poised and a leader. Those are tremendous qualities to have in your young QB - add arm talent which he has. It's a good recipe.

I don't think Baker is going to see the growing pains that most young QB's see..

His demeanor, and the way he carries himself, I think we finally have our exception to the rule.. I'm not crowning him anything yet, but I likes what I see so far.

Like High School all over....

Couldn’t agree more ... 100% ...

He looked lost at the last pre-season game .. lost ... he would lock on to his primary and stay on him way to long .... then his head was all over the place real fast ... he just looked lost ....

I figured sitting for a long time was the best thing ... he doesn’t look even remotely close to lost anymore .... but he’s still a rook .... i didnt think he was ready for the on field training ,,,, well once again I WAS WRONG .... and man ... I COULDN’T BE HAPPIER I WAS WRONG ...

But he is still a rookie whose started exactly 1 game and played another half and a drive and only got to observe for 2.5 games ...

He’s gonna make mistakes .... theres gonna be growing pains .... but he has to play .... as us said ... its important .... THERE’S NO TURNING BACK ... this is Bake’s team now and the more he plays this year the better he has a chance to be next year ...

And dawgs ... not sure what next years theme is gonna be .... BUT ITS GONNA BE A MAJOR UPGRADE FROM OPTIMISM .... if Bake’s near as good as he has a shot to be ... with the talent we have now that is chuck full of pups that are going to improve with each snap they take ... the vet leadership (one of the reasons I really hope we keep TT) the cash we have in cap space and a first round talent to be added .... 2nd year in the O for all except the talent upgrades in theory ...

Hmmmm ... i have some time to think of next years theme .... its gonna be funwhatever it is ...

Vers. If you don't think the team can win then are you giving up on the coach's ability to get them to win.


( rest of this is a general response)

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm so tired or hearing about "next" year.

It's why I hate this coach who loses as often as Bellichic wins. (some days I don't hate him as much, Today I do!)

( other's response about, not his fault, whatever )

but team preparation is "somebody's" job, and the study of the league, team by team, "gameplanning" , to "find out how to win, or ""learn"" how to win" is "somebody's job,

I'm so tired of hearing, (in general on this board, from any number of places) hearing about how

They are just not ready
it's going to take more time, it'll have to be next year,
they can't contend, they aren't going to make the playoffs anyway,

they're too young, ... stick with the plan,

give the plan more time.

(my answer),
The plan only goes back to the Tyrod Injury, the plan before that was Tyrod, while Baker sits and learns,

"""THAT!""" Plan only goes back to the day they signed Tyod in the offseason

, So, Reading anything that says this team ain't ready to win this year, wait till next year is absolute Nonsense!!!

It outrages me! Nonsense because they'll probably be on 3 different plans by when Next Year Get's Here.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing that, because I'm sick and tired of the team not getting even 1 game above 500 for any time since Brian Hoying.

And if they Lose Today, they won't any time this year either, I guess. (Get to 1 game above 500 at any point)

And isn't the coach, supposed to get the team to win.

Selling Browns Fans on Wait for next year, For ELEVEN straight years! (if not 25)
Are you flipping kiddng me!

I love this team, and think that they are very close to being a consistent winner.

That said, here are some of our key players:

QB: Mayfield, 1.5+ games, 1 start
LT: Harrison, 4 starts
WR: Callaway, 4 starts
CB: Ward, 4 starts

These are what most people consider to be the 4 key positions on a football team. (plus pass rusher)

In addition, I think that we need another OLB, because I am extremely unimpressed with Collins. I look forward to Avery taking on a bigger role. That said, I am not seeing much out of our OLB position with Collins and Kirksey. They have decent tackle numbers, but really haven't impacted the games much. I look for OLB to be addressed early in next year's draft.

This is a young and improving team, but one that still has holes, and that needs to learn to play together. (especially on the OL, where we have 2 new starting Tackles)

No, I haven't given up on Hue Jackson. I think firing him will severely retard the team's development.

Stay the course!

This is why you lose all credibility.



No, I look at our feature back who takes the bulk of the carries to see that as a whole our running game only improved slightly since Baker became our QB. I give the blockers and the broken tackles of Chubb to give Chubb the credit he deserves. It's only obvious as to who wishes to take credit away from Chubb and give it to Baker for Chubb having great runs.



You do realize there's a difference between saying someone told a lie and calling someone a liar, right? You should be suspended for name calling but it seems you get a pass for everything you do.

You are dead wrong Tab and Chubb deserves the credit for his production. Every other RB on the teams production proves it. Admit it, your Baker bias prevents you from having any "football perspective" on this issue and if you could be honest for just a second you would know that.

Agreed. Again the voice of reason. You can't fire Hue now not with the team playing well and starting to gel. We could easily be 4-0 right now with a little luck.

Today will be a good test! Hopefully Greatness will surface.

Well maybe Mayfield should start next week.

Mayfield named starter just in the nick of time.

Mayfield is the only thing I might consider tuning in to see. He's a good story and the kinda guy we've lacked since Kosar.

You can go ahead and lock this thread guys.

No

Lmao. LOVE IT, BABY!!

It was one game....and Mayfield still has ALOT to work on....

He threw another INT today, and he was sacked 5 flipping times....again there is ALOT this kid needs to work on. I think he got lucky today more then anything else.

Again, I have said from day one i believe Mayfield is our QB of the future, I just think we pushed the future too soon and the kid and us would have been better off letting him sit longer.

Mayfield had a mid-80's passer rating with a turnover and sacked 5 times...thats not exactly premier QB play (then again to us even average play will look great considering the trash we have had at QB the last decade)

our Defense is really what won this game today...they didn't give up a TD and kept the game within a field goal pretty much most of the game. Its not like Masyfield was lighting up the score board.

I expect people to go overboard with how great Mayfield was in a very close game. As Haley said earlier in the week, "they are carving a bust of him" Haley seems to think the kid has a lot to work on too, he made a lot of mistakes today, he just got lucky.

you know, sometimes being lucky is enough, and i'll take a win anyway i can get one. rothlisberger got lucky a lot in his first few years too so i'll take it.

Lets see if he can keep it up and improve though....we will see....

Just stop.

You know he did throw for 345 yards right?

All luck.

At least know when to give it up.

You are just being foolish.

You got to be kidding. You going to blame those sacks on him?
The INT was the WR breaking out of his route. Luck? You definitely have an agenda against this kid.

His confidence, particularly his confidence in what he knows, is something I really haven't seen in a Cleveland Browns quarterback in damn near my entire life. Pair that with his intelligence, his trust in his teammates, and his innate ability to recognize the defensive schemes being used against him, and his willingness to throw the ball to the spots he's supposed to-----add in a short memory, and the moxie to lead this team...…

I think all the pieces are there for this kid to grow into a great player here in Cleveland. All these traits amount to a young QB who is prepared to weather the ups and downs of the game, the quarterback position, and the offensive leader, without crashing under the pressure....

He is 100% ready to begin his journey as a starting quarterback in this league....

Seriously... Who peed in your Wheaties today?

Nattering nabobs of negativity.... Just stop it...

For Gods sake, the Browns may have found their first QB since the return... No more jersey shots... No more its been X days since they won....

And all you see is the your personal raincloud, Charlie (Knight of) Brown...

It's nattering nabobs, but good post nonetheless.

Flacco's stats where worse than Mayfields today, perhaps he isn't ready either. Please stop you sound like a fool.

I think Baker is improving week by week. He has to start the rest of the way. Next year he should improve even more. Trial by fire is the best way for a kid like him.

I will just say, that I do not know if he is the answer, but I think that Mayfield is the best choice for now, as he has earned an evaluation period.

There will be ups and downs, but that is the nature of the game.

jc...

To those who believe Mayfield shouldn't be on the field too soon...tell me, WHAT IS TOO SOON?

It's not up to the fans to decide when Mayfield will be ready based "fan logic".

As I said in my above post, Mayfield's performance on the field each week will provide the answer everyone is looking for...is it too soon for Mayfield to start?

Mayfield's performance...25/43 342 1 td 1 int...that is probably enough to keep Mayfield on the field as the Browns starting QB, IMO...mac

I thought he did very well under constant pressure, the line was not protecting him well in the second half.

I hated the pick when we took him, I was not a Mayfield guy at all when we took him on draft day. But so far I like what I'm seeing, his arm strength and pocket awareness seems to be the most impressive to me.

His decision making seems to be ahead of the curve at this point in his career. We might have our guy. (knock on wood and fingers crossed) We'll truly find out after the DC's around the league get enough film to discover his tendencies. But for now I'm pretty happy with his performance.

Cheer up and don't be so negative.

Agreed. He's not perfect, but the players play hard for him and don't give up.

For the first time since 2007, I feel they be in any game they play.

Bakerrrr!!!!

Oh and here is the list of QBs who threw ints or fumbled this week...

Rodgers (2 fumbles)
Bortles (4 ints and 1 fumble)
Keenum (1 int)
Luck (2 ints)
Beathard (2 ints, 2 fumbles)
Mayfield (1 int)
Brady (2 ints)
Manning (2 ints)
Goff (2 ints)
Watson (1 int)
Mahomes (2 ints)
Wentz (1 fumble)
Cousins (1 fumble)
Flacco (1 int)
Ryan (1 fumble)
Carr (1 int)
Roethlisberger (1 int)
Dalton (1 int)
Newton (2 ints)
Darnold (1 int)
Tannehill (2 ints, 1 fumble)
Prescott (2 ints)
Mariota (1 int)
Allen (1 int)


The only "flawless" QBs were Rivers, Wilson, Stafford, Rosen...and Seattle lost to the Rams.

He did some questionable things, he did some amazing things...not a single QB in the NFL is perfect and flawless every single play, every single game.

Pending disaster (*knock on wood*), he's the QB of the future here in Cleveland, time to get on board!

look at all of those turnovers

maybe the worst take I've seen in a while...

Thanks for posting those two videos ... that stuffs great ...

I LOVE this kid ... hes so MATURE ... good win time to get to work were just a smidge away from being much better on O ... learning learning learning ....

GOOD LUCK BAKE ...

Good to see you and others finally HAPPY about our Browns. We got the right QB, tough like the Browns should be. Gritty, never give up and freakin talented arm and he's ours!
Thank you Dorsey for turning this Franchise around.

Mayfield at #1 and Ward at #4 both questioned by those so called Experts Thank you Mr. Dorsey!

Yeah, if you want some fun reading, go back to the draft threads and watch everyone go apocalyptic after drafting Baker and Ward. Some entertaining posts there.

I admit I questioned Baker (Wrong) but I loved the Ward pick because the worst part of our team was the secondary and as I said he was/is the best CB in this draft and a lot of other drafts ...

I admit I wanted Rosen over Mayfield.

I am definitely believer that his personality is wining everyone over. He's just one of those guys you can't help but like when you are around him.

I think this is a very important quote. QB's aren't a one size fits all. They are human beings like we all are. Different people react to situations in different ways. Looking at Mayfields past, he has always been a fighter. Always had to work hard at every level to become the starter and succeed.

He's not the type of person who wilts in the face of adversity. Instead he has the type of personality that goes head on to face any struggle. The stage isn't too big for him.

As posters I think many have some foregone conclusion as to exactly how a rookie QB should be brought along. People seem to think that either sitting them or starting them right away is some strict pattern that should be adhered to for "every rookie QB". Yet we've all witnessed QB's who have thrived by being thrown into the fire and QB's who have greatly benefited by sitting for a while. It has been proven that both ways have worked.

Would it have been an ideal situation having the luxury of sitting Mayfield longer? I think so. And the investment made in TT shows that was the hope of this FO and coaching staff as well. But the play combined with the injury of TT took that luxury away.

But what I've seen from Mayfield is a kid who thrives under pressure. Who takes every challenge head on. Who never wilts in the face of adversity but instead rises to the challenge. That doesn't mean there won't be and isn't room for improvement. There most certainly is. But I'm confident this kid has what it takes to rise above it. His personality and mental toughness allow you the luxury of starting the kid early without damaging his confidence and creating a situation where you retard or damage his development. That's not the case for all rookie QB's.

Many of the main ingredients it takes to be an NFL franchise QB are in his skill set. Along with those physical skills he has the mental fortitude and mental determination to be great. Those are traits that can't be taught.

So no, I won't anoint a kid who has started two games a franchise QB yet. It's too early in the game to make such a prediction like that. I've seen far too often where people wish to act as though they're Nostradamus and end up looking more like Nostradumbass by taking a small dose of evidence and attempt to extrapolate that over the long haul.

But I will say Mayfield has the talent and tools to make that a possibility. There's every reason for optimism that this can happen. As Browns fans it's what we all want and hope for. For the first time since our return in 1999 that possibility is very real IMO

Watched most of Baker's games at OU on TV that last 2 years - loved watching him run that offense then and love watching him now.

He was Dorsey's choice from the get-go and so glad he stuck to guns in choosing Mayfield. Nice to have good QB play in CLE again - not since Bernie IMHO.

Could not agree more. Nicely stated.

Making any comparison between Ward and Baker, is just plain wrong...

Took very few plays to see that Ward is special, Baker had a good game against the Jets, but mostly because the Jets stopped rushing the passer.

Oakland and Baltimore games Baker was pedestrian IMHO...

Oakland had no answer to Calloway, the D lost the game, although BM made no difference. Baltimore it was the D and the running game that won it, BM had a good drive at the end of the half.

Love nothing better than hearing your drivel. You keep on keeping on...

There is a presence that is uniting this team. A big, bold and strong personality that is apparently effective and infectious among peers. Wanna take a guess who that might be?

Glad to see you've done a 180.

That takes a lot.

Dorsey?

Baker has thrown for:

838 yards in 2.5 games. That is a 335yd average.

And you are saying he has made no difference and is pedestrian?

Throw the stats out. And tell me who made big plays when they had to be made?

I guess you like to ignore the obvious. Because if you truly believe that Mayfield as little impact on this team then I got nothing for you.

+1

First its not 2.5 games...its 2.5 games plus OT's.

Second apart from the .5 game against the Jets, I have not seen Baker do Anything special.

O line is playing really good IMHO, Baker hasn't been bad by all means, but average NFL starting QB, and that's what pedestrian means.

We have not lost nor won the other games because of him.. TT would have done the same.

All in all I still think BM is very limited... this when I compare him to Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, but that's only me.... I think he is more on the Dak Prescott mold, he won't win nor lose games for the team.

Not only could I not disagree more vehemently, I cannot comprehend how ANYONE could watch the play of TT & Baker this season and conclude that TT could have done what Baker has done.

I get the point you're attempting to make, but that statement is so ridiculously far from being based in truth, it is ridiculous.



As for your closing statement, if based on nothing else your inclusion of Darnold, Rosen, and Allen as examples of who WILL win games for their team, you are clearly smoking crack (or just not actually watching football). All three of those are the very definition and embodiment of "pedestrian", at best.

Thank the good lord Dorsey got Bake all the right parts to mask all his flaws ...

Cause man ... Bake STINKS ... it wasn’t easy masking all those flaws ...

DAWGS

Please follow my lead .. why we focus on responding to this nonsense week in and week out ...

Every week this dude and the one other dude are like lightning rods and ya’all INDULGE THEM every single week ...

Why ... i dont get it ...

Oh well .. to each there own ...

I guess if u enjoy engaging with a negative Nancy then go for it ..

ENJOY DAWGS ... i will in my own way ... please do the same ...

i think you should make a sticky post, letting posters know its ok to root for guys now that the 2018 draft is over. some people are still holding on for dear life about who's right or wrong with the draft picks.

Silly man. It's all about the opioid epidemic now.

I use to blame the OL for QB sacks.

After watching Baker come in in the 2nd half of that game (and the others) now, all of a sudden the OL starting blocking way better?

It tells me that it's a symbiotic relationship and their belief and willingness to block for Baker has been proven in the eye test alone. Plus, he has been pretty good at getting rid of the ball quick and being elusive which TT doesn't seem to have.

Nobody was more behind Darnold than I was.

And I still believe he will be very good.

My second guy was Rosen. Mayfield third. Allen fourth.

I broke down each guy very early in the draft process.

I actually felt all had a chance go be good and still believe that.

But for you to be in denial about Baker is aburd.

Anybody can see his impact. To suggest Tyrod would have done the same tells me to ignore your posts.

You remind me a lot of the stats that they keep showing at the end of every close Browns game this year..

Week 1: Cleveland Browns have the longest losing streak in NFL history and are 1-31.. Browns tie.

Weeks 2 and 3: Cleveland Browns have the longest NON-WINNING streak in NFL history and are 1-31-1.. Browns win.

Week 4 and 5: Cleveland Browns have the longest non-winning streak ON SUNDAY in NFL history..

I'm betting week 7 is about winning on the road.. anybody else realize we haven't won a road game since October 11, 2015

Either way, they are always looking for the negative, so are you. Mayfield drove the field THREE TIMES near the end of regulation and crunch time getting us out and putting us in a position to score but for our crappy kicker and lame no-call on a pass interference...

Our OL was being pushed into his lap immediately on almost every play.. our OL was backpedaling faster than our CBs.. And his mid 80s QB rating is only about 15 points higher than Big Bens against the same defense the week before.. Keep searching for bad things..

All this talk of saying Baker Mayfield "Is the guy" is premature. He has played 2 and a half games. I am not sold on him being the guy yet because he hasn't played long enough for D coordinators to adjust.

Derek Anderson threw for nearly 4,000 yards and 29 TD in 2007 putting him in the Top 9 in the league in passing yards, 1st in the NFL in yards per attempt, and put him around the Top 12 in the league statistically, but guess what? He couldn't keep it going...it took NFL D coordinators about a year to figure out his tendencies and once they did...that was it for him.

Mayfield is going to have to have to prove longterm that he is the guy, and the game he had yesterday leaves more questions then it answers. We scored 12 points ok...12 points...thats not some coming out party for an elite QB. The raiders have one of the worse D's in the league and he still turned over the ball 4 times, throwing two picks.

I will continue to be measured. I am not crowing him "the guy" until he proves he is the guy, and you prove it by doing what Rick Flair said...by winning, consistently, I am not denying Mayfield has talent, im not denying Mayfield could end up being the guy, but its way too soon to be crowing him as some potential savior...He has won a game and lost a game as a starter, and came in relief in another...he still has a lot to prove, hell he still has a logn ways to go to cement that he belongs in the NFL.

NFL history is chalk full of flash in the pan guys, that have a decent year and then fade away. What will Mayfield be? guess we will find out in 2-3 years, but we won't find out this year short of a Super Bowl Win.

I agree. The draft is over. Baker is looking good. Not as good as some our saying, but I think we have our qb. I'm glad we picked him.

I think I can add to your comment by saying that Sashi is gone and it's time for posters to start supporting Hue and stop trying to beat him down each week.

This team is headed in the right direction. Might be time to let some things go and actually support the team?

all this is fine.

but this is not the same as saying he was named the starter too soon. thats two different conversations.

I think this post was made too soon.

Instead of arguing about who's right and wrong, let's just enjoy this moment. This is the brightest the Browns' future has looked in 10 years at least!

I was calling Anderson fool's gold while we were still riding high.
There is a BIG difference between Mayfield and Anderson, actually, a few.

Mayfield doesn't panic, Mayfield has touch on his passes, Mayfield demonstrates an uncanny awareness of what is happening on the field.

Anderson was just a big, dumb arm that had one gear - all out. His receivers made him by regularly bailing him out when he'd make terrible throws. Without Jureviscius in particular, he would have looked a LOT worse and those stats would have imploded.

What we are seeing from Mayfield is success regardless of who the WR's are, and he is spreading that thing around like Oprah giving out foot massagers. Everybody's getting the ball. He is elevating THEM every bit as much as they are returning the favor.

Apples and Tomatoes, man.

There's a reason why Derek Anderson went undrafted, and there's a reason why Baker Mayfield went first overall in a draft that was pretty loaded with good QB prospects, and good players at other positions.

Anderson threw one of the prettiest deep balls I've ever seen, but I've already seen better throws at the short and medium levels from Mayfield that Anderson could not consistently make.

Anderson was a 6th round pick of the Ravens

My mistake. Although he was cut in camp and never played for them. Either way he was a scrap heap pickup, and the Browns caught lightning in a bottle.

I just think it's ludicrous to compare him to Mayfield, who can do so much more. Anderson was also a result of Braylon Edwards making ridiculous catches all year, Kellen Winslow being great, and a solid running game with Jamal Lewis. Sure, you could argue Anderson set those guys up for success, but I'd lean more on them making him look good than vice-versa, and honestly nobody came out of that situation well.

Anderson was a 1 hit wonder.

Baker isn't.

I liked DA. He was no where near as good as Baker.

I think Anderson would have been a fine bridge quarterback until we found our guy. I don't think he would have won us a super bowl but he could have won us more than 5 games on occasion.

Also, I get some don't want to anoint baker yet. That's fine. But I think some of us already know. It's sorta the feeling you get when you met your wife for the first time, you just knew.

I was cracking up reading this thread at the Baker naysayers.

The future is now. He is ready. He will make rookie mistakes but he will bounce back from them.

All preseason he showed signs he's going to be brilliant someday. His accuracy and ball placement is absolutely unmatched. There were several plays in the preseason where I said to myself "Dear God I can't wait until he's good."

Baker, in his second NFL start, beat a team that has historically manhandled the Browns, rookie AND veteran QB's. And he did it by making big time throws and generally protecting the football (the INT was confirmed to be a bad route by Higgins according to film study and reporters).

For what it's worth, "film people" on Twitter all gush over Baker, NFL insiders and scouts are gushing over Baker, other players are. It would be one thing if Bakermania was only in Cleveland, but it's literally a leaguewide effect. Literally everyone in the know thinks this kid is gonna be special.

I cannot wait for Baker to have 5 years in the league. His floor is Matt Ryan and his peak is Drew Brees. Buckle up.

I don't think anyone is anointing him yet...

But seriously, what's the harm in being excited about this guy? What, we all might be wrong, and he's another failed browns QB?

It's sports, not real life. Have fun with it. I don't understand how anyone can have a negative attitude towards this, after what we've had to witness for the last decade?

I think I'm most impressed by Baker's humble, down-to-earth, work-hard attitude. His focus is on continuing to get better, and being part of a great team. So refreshing. The performances have been good, very good, impressive, but it's his maturity and attitude that have me locked in.

Even his poop smells like flowers...

They only thing that smells like poop are your QB evaluations.

Ty sir ....

Ok, but... he's the guy.

I'm not going to ask how you know, but dude, keep that stuff to yourself.

Some will say got to wait 3 years or so...the idiot THE HERD is saying 13 years from now what a dolt...smh

But there are players that you can say what you see and that is obvious. This kid truly is a Franchise QB. Also recognized by many others. Listen to the DC of Ravens. When have they ever said they will be seeing this guy or that guy for the next 10 years. So game plan is important.

But you can just watch...you can just see the amazing plays, the small windows he is hitting. The QB play that you know will get better. I mean statistically he is just average. But if you watch the games. You know the kid has ELITE written all over him. Thank goodness he is a Brown, its been a long time waiting.

DC, its fun watching him and knowing he is going to get better and better.

For me its in the past we would see our QB with time whether they create it or the OL provides it... But finally you see him throw the ball and the expectation is hitting a wide open WR....in the past what ends up would be an INT or a pass no where close to the target or thrown away.

But with Baker you are watching in our view by TV the QB creating time and then finally throwing the ball and hitting the WR right on the money (sometimes dropped ) to a WR for a big gain, not a dink drop off for 3 yards but the kid knows where the first down is and looking to not complete just a pass but to actually make the first even if its 3rd and 18!

We finally got the guy, if others wish to put an * to his game and say we can't...well THEY CAN'T, we you and me and others can. The kid IS a Franchise QB, we got to continue now and build a team around him!

Season 1, Episode 16: Baker Mayfield's Pocket Movement and Awareness in Week 5

Joined once again by PFF's Brendan Leister, we dig in on the abilities and presence Baker Mayfield is showing both inside and outisde the pocket. Specifically, we dig into mechanics within the pocket and how QB coaches teach their Q's how to operate within chaos. It's all about feel that comes from daily repetition. Enjoy!

*FF to 8:14 to skip the QB pocket maneuverability drills.

I'm joined once again by @PFF's @BrendanLeister as we break down:

8 minutes of QB pocket mechanics with drills
5 plays of Mayfield's pocket work from Sunday
Just how good Mayfield is through 10 quarters

Good stuff

looking at that kinda shows that harrison is really bad..Mayfield makes him look better than he is. He was getting beat inside, outside, bull rush..

Don't know how you come away with that...anyone have a link so that I can see the game again...For some reason Direct TV is deleting my saved games. I checked and it shows that it was deleted by the Living Room box...but I never did so and my wife wouldn't dare touch it and its not just one game it is all 5 games which I did not delete anyone of them but all were deleted and the history of recordings show that it was deleted by my Living Room Box... ??? Hmmm Anyways I need a full game view so that I can review every rep of Harrisons and give my more than opinion but Facts of how and why he did what he did.

Download the Sunday Ticket app. You can watch all the old games there. They edit them to less than an hour but keep every play.

I recollect he had trouble with the bull rush at times and late...I don't recollect issues inside (maybe a missed assignment) and definitely NOT outside. jmo

Harrison needs to add strength. He got bull rushed badly.

That was one thing that was a concern starting the season. I think that he'll improve technique wise this season, as he plays more, but it's really going to take a serious off-season strength training program for him to his his full potential.

Technique will help him, too.... but, part of it is simply the fact that Suggs is just a beast.

I didn't look too closely, but what little I saw, when he was getting pushed back, he was allowing his upper body to get too upright. He wasn't playing with any sort of leverage.

All of it will improve a lot both as the season goes on and as we go through the next offseason. A full offseason eating meals on an NFL salary and lifting in an NFL strength program will do amazing things for him.

And sometimes when he was getting "pushed back", it wasn't into the pocket. Instead he was keeping Suggs outside. It's one of the same tactics Joe Thomas employed in his game. You allow the player to move up field but you keep him to the outside where he never actually has any impact on the play. Sometimes it's more about technique than strength.

Now I do agree with those who have said that he got pushed back into the pocket by Suggs at times. But not to the level some seem to indicate he did. He's a raw kid who has a ways to go. All of that is true. He does need to get stronger and work on his technique.

But the skill set is there to be a good NFL LT. We've seen teams miss many times on high draft picks at the position because that skill set is so very rare. We didn't miss.

My season ticket rep invited me for lunch last week. I asked Briana about a very athletic woman standing in line. She told me that was the nutritionist who works with the players, especially the rookies, teaching them how to shop and eat healthy, and that she works with the strength and conditioning coaches to build integrated diet and strength programs.

Snap shots do not paint an accurate picture. Harrison was outstanding in our last game.

The knock on Harrison was that he was not strong enough, I am positive that that was Suggs strategy against him.

That can be corrected. Again we are not looking at the finished product in Harrison, only the best that we can put out there for now.

I remain optimistic about the kid. I though this was his red-shirt year.

You are correct on the technique...to stop the bull rush Harrison only has to have a good knee bend. If he is too upright he will get pushed back. Its probably the 2nd most Edge move that I see week in and out...Quick Edge rush is #1 and then #2 is the Bull rush with #3 being the inside move.

Harrison has to make his first step with a quick kick slide but then maintain the KNEE BEND and he then could cope with the bull rush.

I saw a video on my phone YOU TUBE is my new reading material on the throne...lol This clip showed every pass by Mayfield. I didn't really see Harrison get beat I did see a coverage sack where Mayfield left the pocket into Suggs.
I did see the bull rush a couple of times but didn't see it as a major issue for Baker. The bull rush took time and Baker was able to easily step up out of any danger for the most part.

The worst was a blitz up the A or maybe B gap that went right at Baker and got him killed. but not Harrison's area.

He has zero leverage from what i can tell ... haven’t watched a game on DVR since ... well week 2 ... i just learned all that new stuff form the Joe Thomas video and Vers and purp and maybe someone one else ...

Was really cool stuff ... learned about hand placement and leverage and when run blocking going after the hips to knock the dlman off balance and the leverage ...

Leverage was HUGE ....

Harrison seemed pretty good to me on the hand placement stuff but really bad at the leverage on both run and pass plays ... all about the knee bend ...

U know what he has my friend .... GREAT FEET ... ...

yeah, the good thing to remember is that Harrison is not close to a finished product. Just think if he gets some experience, some strength, and some consistency