For Pete's sake!

Stefanski - Awful
Baker - Awful
Defense - Thank You!

BAKER SUCKED and he'll say as much. The Baker hatred is amazing. He's our QB and he'll pick it up.. something is affecting his game and I'm betting Shoulder but he's not going to admit it. The constant criticism is amazing cause he's the best QB we've had in a long time and he'll come out on top but some on here are actually rooting for him to fail. It's obvious

Not sure what happened to Baker's accuracy from the 1st 2 games but boy has it taken a turn for the worse. I mean, missing receivers by 5 yards is something you would expect from a 2nd or 3rd string QB, not a potential Franchise one. Baker has lost his touch.

The Defense was absolutely amazing after getting gashed the 1st drive. Ward is having a bad year. Hope he can bounce back. When we get pressure on the QB, we are golden. The run Defense looks stout. Clowney had been worth the money. Need to sign him long term. As I said before, JOK needs to start every game from now on.

I'll put my 2 cents in. We WON. That's the Main thing. It was great on D because we played a very good O at their place today. Our O not so much but I believe Bakers shoulder is bothering him more than he's saying. We beat a team we historically have problems with. We are now 5-12 lifetime against them. To me that's important. JMO

D - Amazing game actually; that's two back-to-back and they should be credited with the win given the O's 2nd Half play.

Coaching - I think Stefanski had some internal pressure about looking good first time back in Minny. He seemed to over think play calling and affected the rhythm of the Offense.

QB - I like Baker; I like his attitude and how he truly has endured the challenges he had with so many offensive systems. Having said that, his day was pedestrian and that's being generous. His accuracy has been well documented, but today he had several over thrown balls and also some that looked short-armed. He just wasn't putting the ball where it was needed. Knowing that, the Vikings D could cheat to the run and that clearly showed down the stretch.

I'll take a win and be glad for it, but Baker needs some soul searching before next week.

Joe Woods and the D were nothing short of amazing. What a turnaround from the first two games.

Baker was nothing short of atrocious. I counted 5 missed td throws, including two that would have put the team away. Baker's not a winner.

We have a kicker.

1. We won.

2. Baker missed some throws today but see 1. He doesn't seem as assured as usual. I think Wills was dinged up and Hudson came in. I think we see #6 make a difference when we need him to moving forward. I dont think OBJ and he are on the same page - that will come too.

3. D was brilliant after that first drive.Defense was very good against a legitimate offense. Now we have to see how we go against a QB who can run. JOK was very good again and the front 4 provided pressure all day. We had some brilliantly timed blitzes too.

EDIT - 4. Our kicker was great, thanks Rishuz.

I'll take 3-1 with some misfires thank you.

The Defense showed up and showed out! without them, we lose. Glad to see Woods trusting in our talent.

Baker, Baker, Baker smh. This was probably the worst game I've ever seen him play. He was off on every single thing. He throws with no touch whatsoever. It pains me watching him throw those super hard passes. You almost know he's not gonna hit anybody with them. He is better than this. I know Odell is p'd and I fully understand why. He is being wasted. I'm willing to chuck this as simply ONE terribly awful game from him and move on to the next

Was Coach trying to show up his former team or what? Some of his plays boggled my mind. Not going for the fg, the funny lookin route that he had Odell run in the endzone, 3 straight pass plays with 5 minutes left? He needs to dial it back and go back to the basics when his qb is struggling.

We got the W but it's hard to not have questions after this game. 3-1 lets go!

The defense is gelling. Minny had a top offense, and we held them in check.

People saying Ward played bad, I don't get it. Their recievers were not a big factor today, and they are pretty damn good. Greedy had a good game ,IMO.

JOK is the linebacker we been waiting for. Delpit played well also.

People bashing Stephanski? Why? Because the quarterback couldn't hit the broad side of a barn today? I thought the play calling was good, the execution in the pass game was putrid.

Baker. Wow was he bad today. He had Harrison wide open and overthrows him. He had OBJ open a couple times and made bad throws. He Had Hunt wide open and kept the ball and was short of the sticks. I have to say, this was the worst game he has played in a couple years. He looked anxious the whole game. Something ain't right.

But, we won a tough game against a quality opponent in their house. 3-1!!

Time to regroup and move on. Still tied for the division

Another week another win!

Baker hasn't been the same since Landry went out and OBJ returned.

Stefanski play calling seems off since OBJ returned as well.

Browns tried their best to give that game away. Defense wouldn't allow it.

Defense played outstanding. Hat tip to Joe Woods.

Great play by Greedy.

Wills tried to gut it out, but aggravated his injury. Should shut him down for a game.

Chase McLaughlin is an absolute legend.

The offense misses Landry.

Great to end up on the winning side even after poor game offensively and some questionable clock management. This means the Browns are a really good football team.

Go Browns!

We win as a team. Today Stefanski and Baker struggled but that’s the beauty when you have a good team. When someone has a bad day another player steps up.

Baker is obviously playing injured. Why don't you haters realize this?

Go root for Lamar or the rapist in PA.

Baker is our QB!

This D is starting to gell. A 1985 Chicago Bears performance today.

Not the game I thought would happen.

Great effort by the defense.

Malik McDowell is a true beast. Great effort on every play.The front four was amazing. Pressure all day.
JOK another terrific performance. He made a couple eye popping plays.

Good game by Greedy and Ward. Overall the defense was fantastic.

We beat them down running ball. Just wore them down.============

The passing game horrible. Worst game for Baker in accuracy. He protected the ball. But he missed so many throws. Missed them bad.

Have to shake it off. We won.

Hard game against a good team on the road.

We will need to play better.
================================================

No team in football has the luxury the Browns do. A day where the passing game was doing nothing.

We handed it off and won the game.

The offense has a full week to practice and get better.

They have lots to work on.

Defense looks to be the real deal. McDowell was a steal. He's just going to get better too. Watching JOK play just reminds me that we need someone other than Taki Taki. JOK covered his butt several times today. Imaging if JOK only had to worry about his assignments.

Offense and coaching can be lumped together because they both sucked today and def. not what we expected or normally expect. Baker has been alot better than this. Stefanski has been alot better than this. The opponents aren't getting easier and we need to figure it out. Biggest problem is Baker has a gunslinger mentality but doesn't have the accuracy deep to make those throws. He's very much a rhythm passer. Stefanski needs to do a better job early using the run game and PA and the short passing game to get Baker primed for the rest of the game. Playcalling was to erratic and didn't have the flow to do that. Heres hoping we see more games like second half of last year than what we saw today.

As others said, crazy to think we were going to keep Parkey over Chase. I no longer worry about a FG being shanked and dude has that range that helps bail the offense out. Kicking those 50+ like nothing. Gives KS options though for some reason he doesn't seem to want to use

Look, we won. Not all wins are pretty. Wanted to win by more too, but we won.

I have nothing against OBJ, but there is some kind of mental crap going on with Baker when OBJ is in the game. Baker has looked like crap the last two weeks, him wanting to get OBJ touches is causing him to force it, IMO.

Personally, I'll be glad when we ship/cut OBJ. I don't think he's all that anymore. And it's obvious Baker can't get over his mental need to get him touches. Freddie probably drilled it into his head...

The only other thing it could be is missing Landry. But when OBJ was trying to make a catch today and looked over his left shoulder then reaches out to make a one-handed catch without looking right. Use both hands dammit! It was probably uncatchable anyway, but the showboating crap gets on your nerves when your superstar WR brings less value than a Higgins. I'd take Higgins over OBJ on this team everyday, all day.

BIG WIN on the Road

Chubb needs more carries

This Defense is fun to watch

Baker had Felton wide open in front on his face for a 1st down and decided to run with it and not get the 1st down. His accuracy and decision making today was some of the worst in a long time.

D played a phenomenal game. Seemed to be a bunch of confusion in the secondary on that first drive but that mostly got ironed out quick. They played pretty tight against a very talented group of pass-catchers, and smothered the run game. Their Oline is good but we started getting the better of them at the end.
Takk with another sack. Good for him.
I thought Greedy had a real solid game. Didn't see any egregious misses, plus he got the pick. Also heard his name on run stops quite a bit.

Baker was erratic. Now that I think about it, he got REALLY lucky he wasn't picked because he hit 2 defenders in the back of the head with underthrows. He missed at least 3 wide open guys for big plays.

Kareem Hunt was putting in some work for the second week in a row. Felt like Troy Hill had a poor game.

These two comments make no sense to me. First, I can't stand when people bash play calling. Except for going for it on first down early in the game, I can't see what was bad about the game plan,or the plays called. If Baker completes, even three, of his bad throws, this game wouldn't have been close.

How did they try to give it away? No turnovers, and controled the TOP. Just a silly comment, IMO.

Even some of the greatest QBs to ever play the game have had terrible games. However it doesn't matter if baker has 10 great games and one like this, the baker haters on this board our gonna bash him everytime.


The defense was excellent especially considering how long they were on the field today. JOK played really good. Considering how long it has been for greedy since he started a game you couldnt ask him to do a better job. The defensive line was amazing.

Rishard Higgins needs more playing time. The kid is clutch period point blank. I call him a poor mans version of chris Carter.

Hudson did well for being thrown on there.

Hunt and chubb both ran the ball hard today as the Vikings were determined to slow them down with run blitzes.

Baker was terrible today.

I'm not sure its OBJ arrival so much as it coincided with Landry going out. Landry is the heart of the passing game and he does alot on the outside in the run game. Dude is a player and def. missed. Outside of OBJ this team has no true weapons at WR with Landry out, so teams pull coverage over to stop OBJ, Baker has to see this and hit the other guys, he's not even seeing them.

Big win. Huge. This win is all on the D. They showed up today against a quality offense.

Cousins saw a lot of pressure today.

Another sack on 4th down. You're on the road, kick the FG.

I'm actually glad Hudson false started on that one 4th down. Forced a punt. My guess is had we gone for it, it would have failed.

Baker had a bad day today. Missed on a lot of throws. People will get defensive here ... I am not saying he sucks and is a bad QB. I am saying that today he was bad. And I am sure he would not argue that.

I like the kicker. How was he available?

Again, the D was huge today.

In the Gameday thread, someone mentioned the shoulder injury. The it was pointed out that it was the non throwing shoulder. As a pitcher in college, I realize that when you throw, you use the off shoulder to pull back while the throwing shoulder is going forward. It does a lot to add velocity to the ball.

Not saying that the shoulder is or isn't affecting him, just pointing out that the off shoulder does play a role. Don't believe me, go outside and tie you off arm to your waste and try throwing.

Well we won so that's good.

Baker was bad today. Wonder if the shoulder is bothering him. Baker must play better if we are going to beat the Chargers.

Defense won the game obviously. Thank you D.

Everybody loves the kicker now LOL

WE HAVE A GREAT KICKER

We're bashing KS because he gets cute and passes up sure points in the 1st quarter, having that extra 3 points would've been great today.

Kick it early, go for it late!

Not sure yet. Let's wait to see how he does in the wind, rain and snow in Cleveland stadium

True but he is pretty good so far

I told my wife before the game we will see if this D is for real ... question answered

Joe Woods called a good game today.

j/c:

Overall, this felt like such a wonky game.

Hats off to the defense. If not for their performance we easily lose this game. Baker was pretty bad today and thought Stefanski had some very questionable play calls pretty much throughout the entire game.

- Denzel Ward had another bad performance although he had a huge pass def. towards the end of the game.
- JOK was active and in on several plays
- Baker easily had his worst game of the season. He was wildly off so often. That Minneapolis nightlife will get you!
- Odell was in line for what felt like a 100+ yard game if Baker was more accurate
- Once again, nice little 1-2 punch from the RBs....certainly helps a QB playing poorly.
- Higgins was great.
- Good for Greedy coming up with big play. Wish we would have been able to capitalize on it.
- Feeling good about our kicker.
- Wills gets at least two holding calls a game and Baker gets at least one intentional grounding per game. Nice to see Garrett not get an offsides. That can usually be counted on as well.

It felt good putting it too an offense w/ Cook, Jefferson, and Theilen. It was only a matter of time before Cousins came back down to earth and regressed to his production mean. Still, they have some legit weapons. We didn't let them score after their first possession....that means a ton.

Kinda had a hunch going into this that the 51.5 Over/Under would not have been met. Just didn't know it would have been that "under".

Didn't one of our olineman do this when Kitchen's was the coach? Everybody applauded when he did it too. He jumped and forced Kitchen's to punt. I think it was Cam Erving.

As I stated the main thing is we won. However, we need to play much better on O if we expect to win next week in LA and beyond for that matter.

j/c...

agreed. Something is wrong because his accuracy is his strong suit and it's been off since his injury

Focusing on positives:

our defense was phenomenal. Maybe our best against a GOOD opponent. We owned their offense after one series

our FG kicker was GOLD today too

1. Baker was terrible. Missed wide open throws -several, in fact.
2. We were getting tons of pressure on Cousins, We more or less shut Cooks down, and they didn’t get a lot through the air.

3. Our pass coverage seemed pretty good, JOK is already an impact player. Suddenly we have a really tough defence to play against.
4. Chase still perfect with his kicks, very pleasant surprise.

5. Should have kicked the FG on 4th and four in the first; take the three.

6. I’d rather win ugly than lose pretty.

Odell was wide open on three plays that I remember. Baker missed him badly.

Every quarterback will have a bad day. This one was Baker's.

Hunt in the endzone. Odell wide open three times. One would have sealed the game. He didn't throw to Felton for a wide open first down. He missed Bryant wide open.

Baker does not miss those kind of throws.

He was tight. Looked like he was pressing all day. His normal throwing rhythm was just not there.

Not to mention all the wind and cold up there.

Yes I know it was in a dome

While I understand the sentiment I’d much rather have an aggressive head coach than not.

Every QB has an off day this was Bakers yet we won

Possibly Baker's worst day in a Browns Uni. The game wouldn't have been close if Baker was as accurate as his earlier games this year. Hope he figures this out quickly. I like that he has already owned his woeful play.

The good news is we beat a really good team with poor play calling and atrocious QB play. It can only get better. 1 bad game does not a bust make.

Defense was immense. After the first drive I was like, are we going to revert to pre Chi? But .... THAT was the D I think everyone was envisioning when we reshuffled the deck in the offseason. Smothering D for large sections of the game and then we blitzed at the right time - and unlike the offensive play calling, calls on D seemed timely and ahead of their offense.

Good win against a bad team when our O was ugly at times. Overall another step in the right direction.

Baker had to be playing injured. The inaccuracy was very unusual for him.

Our defense is legit. I really enjoy them.

Our kicker is money!

j/c:

One more thing to add-- Wasn't impressed overall with the online performance. Granted, MIN has some good players on the line, but still, they struggled.

The defense was awesome. Exactly what I had hoped for during the off-season.

Baker was terrible today. There is no way that an injury is not hindering him. He is not that inaccurate. I don’t believe for a minute that something isn’t affecting him. That said, and I love Stefanski, he called a very poor game today.

We will continue to improve. I have faith in this team to get better.

BM is telling you something on two or three plays today like you mention: He doesn't trust his arm, he can't trust his arm, and he shouldn't trust his arm. Something is wrong when he skips a simple throw to open men for first down to get sacked or tackled. I think I counted at least five passes way out of reach which were jump balls admittedly, but out of play. In replays, BM is not spinning it well when he was accurate earlier in the season. His stroke wobbles a bunch and he is really straining and muscling the throw. He and Ski should realize before next week that his arm is marginal and it was bad enough to lose, so it is dumb to force passes to OBJ. We need five, so don't go for 30 with this arm.
Thank the Elf we had run today. And Higgins. And Hunt. And we carried Ward and survived. This was a quality win that was uglier than I expected. But, hey, it's a notch! Go, Browns!

It's not one bad day for Baker. He hasn't been good since the 3rd quarter of game 1.

And his accuracy is an urban myth. He hasn't been very accurate since he got into the league, including being one of the worst deep ball passers in the league. Cannot hit the deep ball to save his life and when he does they are never on target. Receivers can never just catch them and run in.

But my biggest gripe is he continues to play his worst when it matters the most. So many opportunities to seal the game.

Imagine had he connected with obj on that last deep pass to seal the game. Imagine what that would have done for his confidence and objs mood. Obj was clearly frustrated today. Could have gone a long way to them "gelling".

This comment is ridiculous. He made many plays all day. He gave up a couple pass plays. That happens to all CBs.

If this team can get the O, Baker, KS and the D playing 4 quarters they will be impressive. So be impressive.

I think this is simply the difference between hunting and being the hunted. Teams get up to play the Browns now.

j/c...

Jets beat the Titans. Giants beat the Saints. Chicago beat Detroit by 10.

No game is a sure thing in the NFL.

I don't understand why we were throwing it 30 when we needed 5

Regardless, the plays were there. Poor execution by the QB. Throws no professional QBs should miss.

Will not be at all surprised if he has surgery on his left shoulder in the off season for a torn labrum as a result of the dislocated shoulder.

j/c

1) That defense is for real. They Vikes scored on their first, well-scripted drive. And the defense pitched a shut-out after that. There were questions after the Bears game, but that was a good offense they dominated today.

2) I'm thinking that left shoulder injury 2 games ago might be affecting Baker's throwing motion. His accuracy is nowhere near what it was 2 games ago.

jc

Each game Jok and Delpit show that they are the real deal.
Greedy seemed to have a nice game.

Can't see Harrison getting resigned, unless it is a team friendly contract. He is a solid to good player when on the field but doesn't seem to be able to stay on the field.

Malcolm Smith has filled in quite nicely since the Walker injury

. Yes it was a terrible throw, something you and leadtheway can't wait to point out! Regardless!

Oh yes, JOK and Delpit are VERY good for our team. What a great variable they bring

Literally just watched Big Ben overthrow a wide open JuJu for a TD.

Is it frustrating? Yes. Does it happen? Quite a bit to every QB.

And yes, Baker was off today overall. Bottom line, we won today

I meant to mention this. Greedy did have a nice game. And not just the pick.

What about Baker when pressured? He isn't very good under pressure.

Roethlisberger is terrible. Baker should not be.

Again.. QBs have bad games but as some point out. He could have a few great games and you haters say nothing. The minute he had 1 bad throw you can't wait to point it out!

He had the late game pass def (already mentioned) and I forgot about the QB hit, but thought Jefferson had his number all day long. He also was late to their only TD (to Jefferson) and was even visibly mad at himself for it.

The larger sample size of Ward far outweighs his recent, IMO, poor play. But it has been there.

I thought he was mad at our safety who was supposed to have inside leverage.

j/c:

He should have gone elsewhere with the ball, so OBJ does not whiff on a one-handed catch...

But I admit, Baker was off all day. I'm telling you, it's either because Landry is out or OBJ is in...

The announcer call the Browns the Guardians was an intentional mistake.

If only it was only one bad throw

Agreed.

But every QB misses wide open throws every once in while. It might not happen every game, but they all do it.

Baker has missed multiple wide open guys two games in a row. I have faith he’ll improve.

Right. He actually said "Guardians and the Twins."

Wasn't funny, but was intentional.

Bottom line, the Browns won. Give the victory to the d or the o, or anywhere in between. Cleveland is flying home with a W. That's all that matters.

Actually to some being critical is all that matters

I said it last week with a sample size of one, but I'll reiterate it now: This Defense is LEGIT.

That is one Hell of an offense they just shut down, and one Hell of a run game they crushed. They are FUN to watch!


That offense of ours, though, looks completely disjointed and out of tune.
The QB is sailing WAY too many passes high, and has been for weeks.
Today, he sailed them high and just blatantly failed to pull the trigger on several wide open throws.... which makes me think that HE didn't think he could get the ball there. There is more going on there than we know.
The OLine is giving it their all, but they're ambulatory. We *really* miss Hubbard's abilities. Having both OT's and the C so banged up hurts. Having to go to our 3rd string OT when Wills has to go out REALLY hurts.
Get well soon, Hubs!

If the offense can get healthy and the defense can stay healthy and both units play to their capabilities, this IS our year to hoist the Lombardi. Both units are just THAT GOOD when healthy.

You have your opinion and that is fine.

I disagree.

Well, that's their problem.

I get wanting improvement, every week, from every player.


I also get we beat a team that most have called a playoff contender. In their house.

3rd and 24 at the end of the half, near!

Kareem Hunt Runs for 33 yards and a first down!
4-5 plays later the Field goal to reach 11.

If not for the 2 point conversion and that 33 yard run by Hunt. That game could very well have gone into overtime.

"If IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas."

-Don Meredith

I'm trying to Give Praise to Kareem here.

and I heard a new one, from a Browns podcast.
"If IFs' were 5ths' we'd all be drunk!"

j/c...

And that is, according to something around here earlier this week, the #2 OLine... and we pretty much only rushed Four all day.

They kept showing the graphic that the Browns had the 3rd rated defense in the league…

I was figuring that would be the jinx for the defense.

By the end of the game, I was wondering if they would be rated higher next week.

It is the first time in a long time that the Defense could be relied on to stop the other team.

JOK, Delpit, McDowell and Clowney have made a difference.

Now, on offense, it was pretty much a disaster from a passing perspective. Baker admitted that the poor game was on him.. A typical Baker game would have been a lot wider winning margin.

An ugly win is still more satisfying than a pretty loss…

3 weeks into the season we don’t know if the strength of the team is the offense or defense.

On to the next game 3-1.:

I'm very concerned by what happened with Baker today.

That wasn't just a bad QB effort, we've seen that many many times in CLE, this was... DIFFERENT. He just wasn't seeing things right in front of him, running into our own guys, couldn't even throw a screen, it was bizarre.

I'm very curious if he had a concussion or something.

JOK and Delpit add another variable to our defense: athleticism and suddenness … it’s very apparent

It's beautiful.

Love watching JOK play.

JOK is having a hell of a start to his career.

After thinking more about it and looking at reports on the game:

1) Yes, Baker was off and had a bad day. However, thier D was very good, better than expected if you ask me. Even Chubb had a rough first half.

2) Odell. Got nothing against the man, not crazy about our version of the player. Hated the half ass one hand grab today when he didn't even turn his head to that side of his body to see the ball in. Nope, looked over his inside shoulder and the ball was coming down on the outside... reaches out for a one hand grab without even looking. Ball was about a foot and a few inches outside his reach anyway, but it infuriated me. I know, I know, OBJ is great and a superstar... But I haven't seen much of that since he's been here. Matter of fact, I think if you added it all up, Higgin's outperforms him.

Baker and Odell. They are still trying to gel, I get that. Yet it seems to me that Baker has a mental thing with Odell in the game. He looks for him to make his move or get open and misses others who are. He also seems to be forcing the ball to him more and that kind of crap could be throwing off his whole game. You might say it's not an issue, but IMHO the issue is plain as day.

3) DEFENSE:
- Did Myles get a sack? I don't think he did but haven't checked that.
- I think Woods has bought more time after the last two weeks, he might be a keeper. Hope he can improve on today and keep them playing at this level... Super Bowl.
- It's nice seeing our talent start to show up throughout the D.
- It's nice to know last week wasn't a fluke.
- Young guys are showing up big time.

BROWNIES & FROWNIES: Vikings try to play spoiler but fall short 14-7
Important game for both franchises

By Barry Shuck

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/10/3/...fall-short-14-7


The Browns need to continue their winning ways whereas the Minnesota Vikings are looking for a turnaround for their young season. Both clubs need this win. Cleveland is in a logjam in their division whereas the Vikings want to even their record to 2-2-0.

Let’s jump right into it. Who played well for the Browns? Who didn’t?

BROWNIES
Rushing defense - Vikings speedster Dalvin Cook could not get anywhere all day as the Browns defensive front of Malik McDowell, Malik Jackson and Jadeveon Clowney stymied the talented running back. Minnesota had 23 rushes for a paltry 65 yards. Nice job.

RB Kareem Hunt - He busted out for 33-yards on a nifty run in the second quarter that appeared he might be gone. This was on the drive that set up the first field goal. Hunt is a superior blocker when asked to remain in on passing downs. 86 all-purpose yards for the game.

P Jamie Gillian - Any time your punter is needed seven times in a game you are one of the game’s stars. His 39.9 average is nothing to write home about, but three of those were inside the 20 which is hooray! in the kicking biz. Boomed one kick for 54-yards. Your punter one of the stars of the game? When your offense sputters, then yes.

K Chase McLaughlin - Each week the talented kicker comes through with yet another long kick. Made both field goals including a 53-yarder and hasn’t missed one in a game yet. Was also excellent in kickoffs with an average of minus 7 including one that sailed completely out of the end zone.

Middle of offensive line - Most of the bigger gains came straight up the gut behind center J.C. Tretter plus guards Wyatt Teller and Joel Bitonio. The two starting defensive tackles for the Vikings combined for just four total tackles and were moved consistently by this trio. Both guards are excellent at pulling to the outside on several key running plays.

LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah - The rook was all over the place. With 2:30 left in the game facing a third-and-six, it was JOK who defended WR Adam Thielen for the incompletion. Finished with seven total tackles, five of which were solo.


FROWNIES
Cleveland Browns v Minnesota Vikings

QB Baker Mayfield - Today must have been “National Overthrow Wide Open Receivers Day” since Mayfield did this continuously. The worst of the day was what could have been the game clincher with 1:08 remaining where he missed badly a wide-ass open OBJ at the Vikings’ 30. Overthrew Bryant Harrison early into Quarter 4 and then the following play underthrew Hunt which stalled a decent drive. Early in the third quarter facing a third-and-two Mayfield rolled out to his right to which a wide open Demetric Felton was sitting next to the sideline and instead he kept the ball and was sacked instead. Only 15 completions from 33 passes only tells part of this disaster. One of his best maneuvers was tying Teller’s cleat.

Refusing points - Second week in a row head coach Kevin Stefanski went for a fourth down play instead of kicking an field goal. This alone kept the Vikings in the game until the final seconds. Instead of leading 17-7 with four minutes remaining or :57 left or three seconds to go, the Browns held a slim seven point edge. The fourth down failure happened during the end of Cleveland’s epic 15-play opening drive which found themselves with a third-and-four on Minnesota’s six. Mayfield was then sacked just like last week. As far as we know here at DBN, the team with the most points still wins the game.

Play calling under four minutes - The four minute mark is a milestone in NFL games. The clock stops on more opportunities during this period than what would normally keep the time going. Sitting at Minnesota’s 47 with a second-and-10, Mayfield missed OBJ. Clock stops. Next play Mayfield missed Anthony Schwartz. Again, the clock stops with yet another Gillan punt. Two plays at 40 seconds could have eclipsed. After the Vikings lose possession on a missed fourth down attempt, Cleveland gets the ball back with 1:21 to go. Minnesota has all of its time outs left, but nothing more to stop the clock. Enter Cleveland’s bad play calling “again” under four minutes. After two short Nick Chubb runs, the Browns have a third-and-five. A long pass to OBJ is off-target and then one more free clock stoppage. Add another 40 seconds to this tally. So Minnesota gets the ball back with 1:01 remaining. 40 times three equals game over. The trick is to run the ball and keep the clock moving.

PR Demetric Felton - Hopefully the rookie can improve his numbers, but today he fielded five punts for an average of just five yards per return. Two of his returns he lost yardage.

Milk Bones – everyone has a plan until they are hit in the mouth

S Grant Delpit - Was steady in center field and made some special plays. In the third quarter he tipped a pass that was going into the waiting hands of Adam Thielen that would have been a first down. Played a bit soft with zone coverage at times including a key first down catch by Minnesota’s Dede Westbrook early in the fourth quarter. Delpit also had an interception that was negated with a penalty.

CB Denzel Ward - His fourth-and-six pass defense of Justin Jefferson was superb with :22 left. Was out of position when Jefferson gained 31-yards with 2:09 to play on a key third-and-eight.

FB Andy Janovich - His seal block on Hunt’s touchdown in the second quarter was a thing of beauty.

DT Malik McDowell - Vikings left guard Ezra Cleveland had his hands full all day against McDowell. Superb run defense for the big man and is becoming one of the best storylines for the Browns this year.

LB Malcolm Smith - The veteran seemed to be everywhere today and led all defenders with eight total tackles. Is an excellent tight end pass defender. Minnesota starting TE Christopher Herndon had zero catches while TE Tyler Conklin had just four for 18 yards.

CB Greedy Williams - Played steady and was in the right spots for most of the game. Had a key interception. Allowed the 20-yard pass completion to Jefferson right before the third quarter was over.

RB Nick Chubb - Was the leading ground gainer today with an even 100-yards. Had a pedestrian first half but came on in the second stanza with several key runs.

Myles had a half sack, but both he & Clowney (and the Maliks) were hitting Cousins ALL DAY. They didn't get a ton of sacks, but they had a TON of pressures and hits.

Did Baker miss any targets to Higgins today?
I think I remember 2 catches.

If DPJ, Higgins, Landry, Njoku, Hooper, and ?
were the top 5 WR's and not Schwartz Felton and OBJ.

Maybe there'd be the rhythm again.

Just making a point that the “Goat” Brady is getting shut down by his old team tonight.

And yet all professional QBs miss throws they shouldn't.

He played like he had a concussion from the first play.

He doesn't have a concussion. He has the yips.

Not every week.

Baker is literally one of the worst starting QBs in the league at this point of the season.

Where is the giant leap he was supposed to take by being in the same offense two years in a row?

Baker's worst game and I'm sure he'll tell you the same.

Maybe it's an epidemic because Brady is overthrowing receivers tonight as well.

Baker should have throw the ball Felton. He should have thrown the ball to Hunt. I don't like how our tackles are getting beat inside. Any QB would struggle to step up in the pocket.

I'm not worried because Baker had proven he can play. He's a winner, he has one of the best arms in the league and can make all the throws. He definitely struggled today.

Schwartz seemed to slow and jog on the one deep target today. Still an overthrow but he wasn't running hard at all. These guys need to get open. Higgins is the security blanket that Landry is thought to be. I don't think we miss Landry at all. He can't get deep like obj can.

JOK is fun. Ward isn't getting paid. I like watching Delpit play. The future is bright. I like Clowney over Vernon as well and Vernon was good.

Yes. Every week.

I'm not overly concerned about Baker. He can play. I remember when their were talks about getting Cousins, Garoppolo, or Bridgewater over Baker. At least we know Baker is better than all 3.

If you want to narrow it down and question why didn't Baker throw to Felton or Hunt to get a first down, then I'm on board. That was abysmal and unsatisfactory.

Baker isn't a winner. I wish he was. I take no joy in saying that. I take no joy in the realization that Lamar is a winner. Guy is leading his injury-decimated team to wins. They are winning because of him. The Browns never win because of Baker. He's along for the ride.

He's missed 8 td throws in the last two weeks. 8.

I hate that this is the reality but it is. I am a diehard Browns fan. My mood is completely dependent on this teams successes or failures. But I believe in calling it like it is.

Baker is a bottom quartile QB (and probably lower) in the league. If things aren't perfect he's well below average.

Again, I take no joy in saying any of that. But that's where we are.

There is literally no difference between Baker and Cousins and Garrapolo. None.

I watch all these guys. No difference.

The difference between Baker and a guy like Allen is wide.

Baker wasn’t just bad throwing …. He had some very big WTF moments too. Missing guys, weird times to run and not dump it down, and reverting back to his old drift back/right in the pocket. He looked like the 2019 version of Baker today

A W. That’s the most important thing. Playoff/Super Bowl teams find ways to win, even when missing other aspects of the game plan. They found a W. I’m not ecstatic, but I’m okay with it.

If only we had that on this board

If only he could practice what he is preaching 👏

Denzel with multiple GREEN DOG delayed blitzes against nub looks this week
@All22ChalkTalk
. Love that adjustment from Joe Woods.
https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1444855918294978568

I disagree with you here. I'd argue Landry is the glue on the offense regardless of what his stats or contract says. This team misses Landry a bunch. The deep ball is certainly not what makes the Browns offense tick.

On a side note, Hollywood "All I do is catch first down passes" Higgins is the current Brian Brennan or Jurevicius on the team.

Rish...

Baker is overcoming injuries as well and have the same record as the Ravens. Landry injured. OBJ injured/inactive first two games. Wills, Tretter, Conklin all not healthy, but trying to grind through it. Also, Baker playing through a left shoulder injury that has a good possibility of being treated with off season surgery.

In a way, I like that people are pissed after a sloppy win. It's means the Browns are really good and expectations are high. About time!

Difference is Ravens are winning because of Lamar.

Milk, Baker is just an average QB. I wish it weren't true, but it is.

Doesn't mean we can't have a successful season and win a lot of games and go far.

Just disappointed that we can't have that kind of guy.

Let the season play out. I appreciate the passion.

I'm on pins and needles awaiting the Haslams to hose me on playoff tickets, to which I'll gladly pay!

It is true we win games because of Baker, today might have been an exception, but teams don't always win or lose as the quarterback goes.

I have no idea how anyone can say Baker is not a winner. We went from a crap pile of quarterbacks to one who turned this franchise around. 11-5 last season and our first playoff win in decades.

I believe you've been extremely selective in your criticism of Baker. He's done a tremendous amount of good and we're not a playoff team without him.

j/c...

The "Browns need to trade OBJ immediately" is what I assume is hyperbole.

They have to make the playoffs first.
I can be confident they will make the playoffs and are playing well enough to, and it will probably work out, and > AT THE SAME TIME, RECOGNIZE, that for whatever reason, be it,
Purple team qb and purple teams vet group on dbs.
efiminate stripey teams, qb and investments on defense plus a sudden awareness that running matters.
and mustard streaks teams hof qb and even if bad offense their historical ability to catch breaks and make things happen on things like devastating turnovers and defensive scores,
whatever reason be it, (plus the afc wests' collection of threatening teams cluster working against circumstances) and the schedule,
whatever reason, pick any,
That the Browns, have one of the most difficult paths to even get in the playoffs, even with this record, and moreso than some afc south teams, and the afc east teams,
and that difficulty won't relent any time during the path of the regular season.

Baker has ended the QB carousel.

One game does not make a decision. I will continue to hope for the best.

The Browns are winning. That is more important.

Happy BDay ChargerDawg!

I don't believe we miss Landry and I don't believe he is any type of glue for this team. I mean the players may say they miss him, but he doesn't bring much more than what Higgins can do.

Give me a bigger faster WR for Baker to throw to. Adams would work but there are comparable cheaper options. The deep ball may not make the Browns "tick" but it would sure help the stress meter on the 14-7 wins.

You mean like the deep ball that Baker missed on when OBJ was wide open?

I wholeheartedly disagree. I yawn at OBJ's (bigger, stronger, faster) obligatory 4 yard hand off each game to get him involved in the game after trying to force him several passes early. Baker gets the OBJ yips.

Landry is a gamer. See his 4th and 1 run against the Chiefs. He brings a calming presence.

To repost:

Baker has to be the alpha to be at his best. When OBJ is on the field he’s the alpha. Baker’s mojo gets thrown off and he sucks.

We’ve seen it for 2+ years now … Baker and OBJ just won’t work

For the record, the NFL is in charge of playoff tickets and pricing.

These are both very poor "takes." Imagine Baker connecting with OBJ on a couple more passes and we win handily. No one would have mentioned missing Landry. Having Landry doesn't make OBJ catch more passes or Baker throwing a more accurate ball. That's the silliest I've ever heard. OBJ was open, a lot. Throw him the ball more.

Yesterday wasn't Baker's norm. Whatever the issue is, lack of chemistry, sore shoulder, being over hyped for his coach to win, yesterday was an anomaly for Baker and it had nothing to do with Jarvis being out.

Definite chemistry. Not the overthrow but the pass to the outside when OBJ broke inside. There were a lot more bad passes when Baker normally doesn't throw bad passes.

If Baker is bothered by a shoulder issue we will never know. He'll never say. But for him NOT to pass to a wide open Felton or wide open Hunt says to me there may be pain or issues with that shoulder. Both times scrambling out to the right he pulls it down and runs. That's not normal for Baker. He would normally hit those throws.

He talks of nothing else.

Baker had a bad day. He said it. Everybody said it.

Not enough for Riz. He looks at Baker in every negative light possible. Never acknowledges a good throw or something done exceptionally well.

It is like the game is on and he is taking negative notes to post about. Anything good is not noted.

There is not a GM or head coach in football that watches Baker and comes away with what Riz takes are. Not one.

Quarterbacks have bad games. All of them.

The Browns do not go to the playoffs last year without Baker. Period.

This year other than this last game. He has played well. Not great but the record is 3-1.

Baker will continue to lead the Browns. The players and coaches are behind him.

Riz has his opinion. It matters only to him.

Even my mom, who has never had anything good to say about our kickers for the past few years said this one is good. Believe me that is lights out a complement to the guy.

This defense looks to be very real.. They were outstanding, every single one of them did their job.

Jok has been unbelievable and is all over the field making plays whether it's making the tackle or blowing up the blockers os someone else can move in and finish the play. he is monsterious.

Garret and Clowney, McDowell, and Jackson are getting better every week. While they didn't pile up huge sack totals like they did against the bears they are very consistent in applying pressure. Outstanding effort.

The backend has been lights out in my years of watching football I can't recall seeing a defense swat down so many passes. The coverages are tight and they are making plays on the ball consistently.

Greedy Williams played great, Delpit played great every piece stood up when they had to make a play on the ball.

The defense is smothering the offenses run game. Because of the team speed we have they are getting to the ball carriers in numbers. When a 6 yard run is one of the better runs for the day on offense it's truly clicking. The defense is working well together. The pieces all fit, no round pegs in square holes.

That unit stands on the doorstep of greatness, so nice to see. Thrilled with the product obviously...

Baker is sorta in a funk right now, I am not sure exactly why I believe for some reason he is losing his mechanics (footwork) under pressure. I think a point of emphasis for Baker should be to set his feet and let it fly.

This was the kind of team win though that you have to love. Baker has an off day and the defense smothers the Vikings offense.

The defense looks to be hitting their stride and they are in attack mode on every play. The old saying play like you're hair is on fire best describes this defense.

I believe we are the best defense in the league right now and we are bound to get better.

The front 4 are playing unbelievably and the back end is covering long enough for them to get home.

For all the concern about Joe Woods he has pulled this unit together and has positioned them to be the very best.

Folks we have the kind of mix and talent that is championship level, we can beat teams from every conceivable angle. Great defense great offense.

Browns defense was off the chain good.

The front four was outstanding.

Malik McDowell the find of the year. When the ball is snapped watch the guy he plays go backward. MM's first strike is sudden and powerful. He drives his man. It is a huge add to get pressure up the middle like he is providing.

Malik Jackson also had a big game. At 6'5" amd MM at 6'7" two large guys with hands up is a problem.

Cousins was pressured all day. You could see it in his face. He came into the game red hot.
He also had a bad game.

JOK is on track to winning the DROY. He is an exceptional player. He made plays all over the field. I need to replay to find this one play. While watching I jumped up and went Wow dude. It was a tackle behind the LOS. It looked like he was on fast forward.

The entire secondary was outstanding.

As a defensive unit whole They swarmed to the ball.

The Vikings were shut down. Take away their opening drive and they got next to nothing.

If the Browns defense continues in this trend. The Browns will go a long way.

When you can pressure and cover like they have these past two games. Life in the NFL will be rewarding.

Riz thought Holmgren was good, that says it all......................

Their are some posters that you are better off ignoring, reason isn't their best attribute...........

Try waving up at the sky and ignoring him.................I do !

Quite honestly, I haven’t seen a better rookie LB thank JOK in a long time. Whenever there’s a quick/flash play, I basically just assume it was him LOL

There are a lot of Baker haters and they all enjoy it immensely (while telling you otherwise) when he plays poorly. Even when he plays well they sometimes say he is average because of x, y, or z.

Baker played really bad - he deserves a lot of scrutiny and maybe some flak and it clearly is fodder for anyone who likes to pronounce for the umpteenth time that Baker is a bust (being average for a 1st overall pick would be a bust). Just have to wait for Baker to figure this out. As someone said - he's never going to reveal if the shoulder is hurting. Because of the way he was running I assumed the shoulder must have been okay, but as someone said, the non throws to Felton and Hunt were just bizarre and more likely an indication that a certain body twist or action is causing issues.... we'll see. My belief in Baker hasn't gone because of Sunday vs the Vikings.

this should be a reminder to the board that OBJ is a great weapon to have. he's a nightmare for the secondary, and a very willing blocker.

Baker had a bad game. it happens. but please stop blaming OBJ for that. Baker was missing multiple receivers wide open. he missed schwartz, hooper, bryant, obj, and felton multiple times who were wide open.

baker just needs to get back to the fundamentals with his mechanics.

baker wasn't the greatest during the first half of the season, even with obj out. the 2nd half? he lit up everybody. Baker will find his groove, and then strap yourselves in, cause were going to outer space.

To me, if there is any fault with OBJ's play, it has more to do with the way the coach uses him.

One thing that’s bugged me: where has DPJ/Schwartz been? I literally forgot they even played yesterday. Is Baker struggling that bad that he’s missing open guys? Or are they not getting open?

DPJ was the camp darling … now he’s invisible

I love it when WRs block downfield, especially those that are regarded as stars at their position. I think we have several good blocking WRs on this team, Landry, DPJ & OBJ quickly come to mind.

I love Baldy, but he sounds like Kevin, from The Office

I think there is a perfect storm going on with the offense's struggles. I think Baker is in his own head and combine that with his injury. I think Wills being hurt also has taken its toll. Combine that with the fact Jarvis Landry has been out, and Tretter is also dinged up, and you have a recipe for some big-time struggling.

Good thing the D seems to be finding itself. Hopefully we can get both sides to show up here soon. If we fire on all cylinders, we'll have one hell of a team.

Great job by Greedy

j/c...

That is a good question.

Yesterday KS went back to the well that keeps giving; Chubb/Hunt.

Until film shows the routes and you can see if there is separation. Hard to say.

Obviously we miss Jarvis. He is a go to target for Baker.

I wish the Odell sweep play is taken out. I hate that play.
Also I dislike the play where Felton wraps around Baker. It is a steal from the Chiefs. They have run it and done nothing with it.

Felton needs to get the ball. He is a excellent receiver. He is a mismatch underneath against linebackers. He should also be a screen guy where you get him the ball with a little space and blockers in front.

Schwartz? I can not tell his route tree so far. Unless you can see tape where you can see the routes.

DPJ is a guy who showed in camp that he will win contested balls. If he is single coverage Baker needs find him and give him some chances.

I am going to throw yesterdays game away. We won playing great defense and running the ball.

Shout out to our place kicker as well.

We will have to be more complete in future games.

And I believe we will.

Next week we play in a good weather place.

After 4 weeks all is well. I am really pleased with how the defense has come together.

I am confident in the offense. Baker will play better. Jarvis will return. Odell will get into game shape.

The Browns have the best run game in football. There is no doubt about that. Play great defense and having a great running attack will take you a long way.

We do not turn it over.

The passing will get better.

Here is my issue with Higgins. He runs his route and gets open - Great. He catches the ball for a 1st down - Great. The nearest defender is 10 yards away - Great. His YAC = 1 - WTF?

Just wanted to add one more thing: I think the greatest contribution the Browns ever received from Todd Haley was the phrase I stole from him every time our kicker nails one from far out...

First down, fall down!

One player who I thought went well, but unnoticed yesterday was Elijah Lee, by the way.

Happy Birthday! I got this win for ya! Hope it was fun!

I remember watching Hines Ward and that crew of WRs completely block us out over and over again. Their "Trips" package beat us EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. because they'd just block us, and I was envious and angry that we couldn't find a way to get a receiver corps that was as effective.... and, now, we have it.

and Conklin has been hurt.
3 out of 5 OLine have been limited in practice the last three weeks.
OT-C-OT

When Wills goes out, we have a 3rd string OT coming in, or in the case of that guy named Blake, we have a backup Guard coming in at OT, which is why it was nice to see Hudson elevated yesterday; it means he's getting it enough now to contribute.

For some of Baker's issues, it's easy to feel he is simply feeling pressure more than is there and he is expecting to get hit at any second. Getting Gun Shy, as it were. But, when we need 3 yards and Felton is wide open 5 yards out and he ends up taking a sack because he keeps looking for the homerun hit 30 yards out, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with feeling pressure or bad footwork. That's just willfully stupid play. Obstinately playing Hero Ball when it isn't needed. He's going for the flashy Homerun when we just need to keep the drive moving with a freaking base hit. Instead, he whiffs.

I was livid after that play. I'm sure he'll watch that a few times with Stefanski and AVP.

Jake Burns take on Baker's struggles.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/conversation-baker-mayfield-172375333/

My brother was screaming that we need to bench Mayfield, and my Dad thought Mayfield looked like he was paid off to play poorly, lol.

I won't go so far as to say any of that right now, but I definitely wouldn't take sitting him off the table for the future, either. Whatever the issue(s) is/are, they all reside within Mayfield. He isn't setting his feet before he throws, he is throwing off his back foot. He isn't seeing the field and hitting open WRs, he's trying to force the ball downfield, but because he isn't setting his feet, he isn't accurate. He's been sailing balls high since Week 1, and not just occasionally, it has been constant and consistent.


WHY AVP hasn't seen this and fixed him or beaten him over the head with it is the real question. WHY are we heading into Week 5 and an issue that was already corrected once last season is now approaching two months of needing correction?

j/c...

That’s unreal

Agreed. It's hard to believe that Baker all of a sudden is inaccurate And struggling after he played so well. Same with our O-line. We went from the #1 rated O-line to one that's struggling. That's unfathomable. It has to be injuries. The players are the same so's the scheme and the coaches. If we get healthy I believe we'll be fine. JMO

That’s my hope too (let’s also hope he CAN get healthy) some things linger obviously

j/c...

Well, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one saying this.

From the article:

The elephant in the room, the issue I really don’t want to wade too deeply into is the murky waters of whether Mayfield is better without Beckham. However you feel about it, the data is not kind. According to Pro Football Focus, Mayfield's career passing grade with Beckham is 68.7 and without Beckham, it is 90.7.

There is no debate that things have to change soon as we peek into the future. It’s brutal to accurately quantify the issue and it ends up feeling like blaming the same person too often. However, the film and the data tell us that there’s a story to two Mayfields here, and the Browns have to find Mayfield's Dr. Jekyll and remove this version of Mr. Hyde with Beckham. The pair have it in them, I know they do.

The two players are immensely talented. It was excruciating to watch Mayfield trying so hard to make it work with Beckham yesterday only keep missing him on opportunity after opportunity. It’s affecting both of them to the point of body language crisis. Mayfield is wearing the stress of it on his entire being. Physically and mentally.

While the efforts yesterday are tough to watch, just as tough as some early efforts in 2020, Mayfield still has every chance to right this ship and turn the season into something memorable. Not one thing was defined yesterday and he is still behind the controls of fixing this thing. It will take a collective effort from everyone involved in the offense, and Mayfield will have to rise up again. The final story of this season is likely written in whether that happens for Mayfield and the Browns or not.


So, are we going to have to watch Baker struggle while trying to integrate OJB and get on the same page? I don't want to lose talent but I'm one of the few that think OBJ is not the OBJ of old. I think he is average to slightly above these days. He hasn't shown jack since being here other than a few flashes. If he was a rookie, he'd be our 4th or 5th stringer! BUT if he was rookie OBJ, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I'm not sure if it's him or Baker, but Baker struggles like hell with him in the game for some reason. If SKI can't fix this in the next week or two, we need to trade OBJ.

Cousins is glad he's not facing us twice this year, lol

Welcome to the club, Baker.

JMHO, there is NO WAY to practice game day. Baker can throw the crap out of the ball, yet, he's human and EMOTIONAL. He gets high on emotion and throws the long ball to hard and high, then he starts aiming it after throwing long several times. ADD in the noise, overall atmosphere of dome playing....he's toast. Some how we've, Browns, need to help him with mental aspects, more like Coach S, needs to calm down...JMHO. Go Browns!!!

Dislocated left shoulder -> torn labrum and possible rotator cuff tear.

If anyone thinks that does not affect how you throw, especially in a contact sport, think again. It will affect him mentally as well as physically and it won't get better until he has surgery to repair both, most likely.

haha he had a look at one point yesterday that screamed HELP

Do we know this for a fact? I thought the MRI showed no structural damage.

The only problem with this analysis is he's not listed on the injury report and that's a serious penalty if discovered to be inaccurate

Pure conjecture on my part. Just know the injury well and find it hard to believe that a dislocation resulted in no structural damage.

Okay....

Claiming that OBJ's effort was lacking because he had to try to one hand that catch has nothing to do with OBJ. The pass was supposed to come to the inside and it came to the outside. By the time he saw that pass he was lucky he even had time to make a one handed attempt to catch the ball. There's no way he had time to turn his body enough to try and catch that ball with two hands.

The elephant in the room here is Baker. He had a terrible game. We know it and he knows it. So for anyone who calls that "bashing or hating", they weren't paying attention. I like Baker but this game is what it is. All of this trying to place the blame on the fact OBJ is on the field is nuts. OBJ didn't make Baker miss a wide open Felton when we needed that first down. OBJ being on the field didn't make Baker overthrow the ball on multiple plays and miss wide open WR's on multiple plays.

This is the second game in a row that Bakers footwork has been out if whack and it's showing. This week even more so than last week. I have no idea why it's happening. It could be the OL giving up more pressure. But when you begin having multiple injuries on your OL, which is going to happen in the NFL, you can't allow that to unnerve you. It could be the shoulder. But it's a regression form the last half of the 2020 season and the first 2 games of this season. Hopefully Baker works through it but we're going to need to see that happen if we hope to make the playoffs. Our schedule isn't kind.

What happened to that defense of ours?!

Too many players stepped up for me to hand out game balls. It's amazing to see what a transformation can take place when a defense gels and begins to play as a cohesive unit.

Any way you slice it we came out of it with a win.

Don't say our WRs weren't/aren't getting open. Baker needs to fix this ASAP.

Stefanski currently sits at 6-0 vs the NFC.

so last year we swept the NFCE and the AFCS .. and this year we’re 1/2 to sweeping the NFCN

I'm guessing most of this is above. I didn't read it all.

Baker had a bad day. Kudos to him owning up to it. Part of the problem in my opinion has been poor OL pass blocking, part of it is that he's just missing guys. Hope it is fixed soon, we have three tough games in a row.

Gillan is not very good. Part of his low average is where he's kicking from, part but not all of it.

The refs were not very good again. I'll use the roughing penalty as an example. Not only did they miss a mugging, but the "low hit" wasn't a low hit, our defender was on the ground.

Stefanski made some poor decisions. 4th and 1 or maybe 2 I'm good with going for it, but 4th and 4 with that play call was bad. His challenge was a poor choice. Not challenging when Baker clearly dove for the 1st down. Some of the play calling was sketchier than previous games.

On the flip side, we ran well overall despite it not feeling like we did. And Woods has called 2 super games in a row. Greedy was solid and JOK is playing very very well.

I see him a lot, so he isn't unnoticed here. The kid plays like he wants to start.

That is a fair and accurate article.

His accuracy is not a urban myth.

Nor does he have issue with deep ball accuracy.

He does have a problem with consistency. He has been streaky.

I have seen Baker make high grade NFL throws into tight windows with anticipation, touch and accuracy.

However, he also has stunk at times where he seems to go blind and throw poorly.

At the same time I have seen Hall of Fame quarterbacks do the same at times.

Baker is a hard worker who is very hard on himself. He will do what he needs to do to become more consistent.

The NFL is no playground and quarterback is an extremely difficult position to play.

j/c...

Tough day for Baker. Accuracy was terrible and he was back to "willy nilly" in the pocket whenever he felt pressure.

Baker has a + arm, he does not have an elite arm. Most of his velocity comes through strong legs, great hips and the fact that he is usually very mechanically sound all the way through his delivery. A "bad wing" on his left side is disturbing that process. He's trying to make up for it be "throwing" harder and that is affecting his accuracy.

NOW... that is not meant to be an excuse, it's just a fact, one that he will have to work through going forward... hopefully he heals (or heals enough to do the job) sooner rather than later.

The decision making? Not good right now. Why? I don't have all the answers but I'll back up to my first point. He's been under almost constant pressure over the last two games, the OL is a little beat up, and that leads to "willy nilly" Baker. That Baker always looks a little confused once his first read isn't a gimme. I'm not worried, Baker will be fine.

This team is not the same without Jarvis Landry on the field.

WE saw clear evidence of how hard this team will be to beat when the defense steps up. The very best compliment to our elite run game is a solid defense. When you can "grind it out" and your defense can get off the field, you can win games in the NFL despite poor QB play -- yesterday was evidence. The Vikings burned 7:34 on their first drive... they held the ball for less than 17 minutes after that drive.

Baker / OBJ? Obviously nobody has any answers, if anyone here does, I would love to hear them.

Where are the Tight Ends?? Texans game - 11 catches on 12 targets for 117. The last two games combined 6/14 for 50. This is a real head-scratcher.

There have been 319 games in the NFL since the beginning of last season. Only twice has a team scored 14 or less and won... both games saw the Browns as victors. It would have been only once had Nick Chubb not stepped out at the 1 to lock up that ugly victory vs the Texans last year at 10-7.

Win pretty, win ugly... just win baby.

On to the next...

I haven't looked at Bakers mechanic this year, but last year he had a problem with too long of a stride. When you do that, you cannot get over your front foot so the ball tends to be high.

I would bet that is what was going on yesterday.

I did not see him over striding.

Hard to define what was wrong. I have no idea how he did not see Felton in the flat for a first down?

There were cases in the last two weeks where guys were open and he did not see them? Or, he saw them and decided against the throw?

He seemed tight. Like he played tight. When you are in a zone everything spins around you and you are calm and collected. You see. You fire. You trust.

I am confident Baker will find his way. He believes in hard work and preparation. And that is what it takes.

Anybody else think Baker is intimidated by Odell? I think something happens with his nerves when he goes to looking for Odell down the field. It doesn't help that he's been under pressure too, but still. He missed on so many other passes too but I'm specifically referring to the deep ball. Either way, Baker is shook. Particularly in these last 2 games.

Absolutely not.
I don't think anyone or anything can intimidate Baker on the field.

Very nice post Fate, I enjoyed how you backed your opinion with some stats........Thanks

For myself. I don't like to speculate on that kind of thing.

However, Odell was an established player when Baker came into the league.

As a younger player there is something to prove. You want to earn the respect of the stars.

But Baker and Odell have been teammates for going on two years now. They have spent time together outside of Berea. They have been in the same system.
Baker has thrown to Odell a lot at practice. We should begin to see them in sync.

j/c

So, the Browns won. Baker had a poor day. The vikings d was supposed to be tough. The vikings O was top notch, according to ..........well, everyone.

Our D has yet to 'gel'. (according to posters). Worried about a high scoring affair, and if our D could stop their O.

Browns won. Our D stopped their O.

We won, with Baker having a bad day. Chubb and Hunt did not have bad days.

We won, we move on.

That net's it out really.

We won. Sometimes how you win has to come from different people.

I for one do not freak out when a player has a bad game. Fumbles, picks, dropped snaps, bad punts, missed field goals, missed extra points, etc. happen.

Aaron Rodgers plays quarterback about as good as the position can be played.

Quarterbacks have bad games — Aaron Rodgers completed 54 percent for 133 yards with two interceptions and a 36.8 passer rating in a Week 1 loss to the Saints.

You move on. Especially when you win.

I was throughly impressed with Greedy Williams. We have four corners that are legit NFL starters and that’s insane.

j/c

Shared this to help talk myself down, as well as any of the others carrying pitchforks for Baker, lol

The takeaways that Quincy has here are pretty spot-on. This was pretty much the worst (hopefully) offensive performance we are likely to see this year... and we STILL WON. We can rest assured that they will get the offense fixed and when they do, we will return to having a Top 5 offense and we now have the 2nd best, and maybe arguably the best, defense in the NFL to go with that.

When the O gets back on track, there will be fireworks flying everywhere.

I think my concern with Baker is that he has seemed off a few games in the row. If it's not the shoulder, then I'm even more concerned at what it could be.

I've been waiting for him to turn it around and take that next step where the arrow flips back upwards, but it's been trending the other way over the past few games.

Now, I'm not saying this to lend any credence to the whole sit/cut/tar/feather Baker movement at all.

Similar to my concerns with Woods' defense, I am anxious to see that things get corrected and not perpetuate. Hopefully Baker follows the same trend line that Woods' defense has recently.

j/c...

I was just reading an article on BSPN about Baker needing to be better and ran across this. Browns defense = QBs worst nightmare right now...

Browns PFF Grades vs Vikings

Defense: Parentheses are # of snaps played

Myles Garrett: 90.2 (61).

Jadeveon Clowney: 81.4 (49).

Takk McKinley: 71.4 (38).

Joe Jackson: 43.1 (5).

Malik Jackson: 81.1 (51).

Jordan Elliott: 56.0 (15).

Andrew Billings: 44.6 (5).

Malik McDowell: 44.2 (44).

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah: 75.8 (35).

Malcolm Smith: 74.6 (51).

Mack Wilson: 66.3 (11).

Elijah Lee: 53.7 (14).

Sione Takitaki: 48.4 (24).

Greedy Williams: 86.4 (67).

Troy Hill: 72.0 (42).

Denzel Ward: 70.3 (66).

A.J. Green: 43.2 (1).

Grant Delpit: 74.1 (65).

John Johnson III: 69.5 (67).

M.J. Stewart: 67.0 (24).

Ronnie Harrison: 63.0 (2).

Offense: Parentheses are # of snaps played

Baker Mayfield: 49.2 (78) - 12/22 from a clean pocket.
Under pressure on 40% of dropbacks
3/11 on passes under pressure
Mayfield responsible for both his sacks

Demetric Felton: 80.1 (6)

Andy Janovich: 72.2 (5) - Run Block Grade = 49.9

Kareem Hunt: 70.0 (41)

Nick Chubb: 55.8 (37) - Avg. 2.9 yards after contact was averaging 4.0 yds after contact

Rashard Higgins: 75.0 (41)

Odell Beckham: 56.1 (62)

Anthony Schwartz: 53.9 (15)

Donovan Peoples-Jones: 50.2 (46)

David Njoku: 66.9 (52)

Austin Hooper: 64.1 (56)

Harrison Bryant: 53.7 (29)

Joel Bitonio: 90.9 (78)

J.C. Tretter: 69.7 (78) - Best Pass Block Grade = 75.4

Jack Conklin: 68.0 (78) - Run Block Grade = 73.4

Wyatt Teller: 65.4 (78)

Jedrick Wills Jr: 58.5 (57) - Run Block Grade = 73.8
- Worst Pass Block = 37.7

James Hudson III: 50.2 (21)

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10...eplaceable.html

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10...eplaceable.html

Who Frickin Cares!!! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance! I ain't seen Schwartz do a touchdown dance!
Schwartz ain't caught a ball IN THREE GAMES!! (Bench Schwartz for Higgins) let him learn for a time period.

Baker was sacked 5 times in the Bears game. (that's OL, and the Browns on Ol have rookie James Hudson, messing up the continuity of depth.
Mayfield is nursing an injury he got on a tackle that some have said the interception was A. Schwartz' fault.

What a difference from 2020-2021. Specifically,
The dividends of two team decisions.
Letting OL, Kendall Lamm, go to the Titans, replacing with some rookie draft pick. (Not top 50 overall)
Drafting a 50/50 track runner college football player and trying to rely on them, (Schwartz) with a 3rd round pick.
Now you have a Qb who was sacked 5 times, two games ago vs. the Bears, and is nursing an injured shoulder from 3 games ago, vs the Texans.
And he's playing with WR's he has no chemistry with.

Look at the snap counts. Higgins is getting Just about what DPJ is getting. Schwartz is getting about a third.

Any answers for Baker and Odell .. or Schwartz?

Send the receiver 40 yards up the sideline! The ball only has one place to go, and so does the WR.

I think it's time to turn away from PFF grades, may look back later.

I enjoy reading these grades and even post them when I see them before they are posted on the board. That being said they are pretty worthless at times. Malik McDowell getting a 44.2 is laughable. Guy was collapsing the pocket on almost every play. I should add he was held quite a bit as well.

In the run game I don't recall him getting blown off the ball or any big runs up the middle. I'll have to re-watch the game to see how he did against the run.

I forgot to mention Hudson. Got a raised eyebrow outta me to see him out there instead of Hance, but other than a couple mental/rookie mistakes I didn't see anything especially bad outta him.

We gotta get Wills healthy. Having to get another MRI is not good. Hubbard needs to get healthy. We're going against a Bosa next weekend.

PFF certainly not the be all, end all.

They graded McDowell a 65.6 as a pass rusher and below 30 as a tackler.

Dalvin Cook was shut down to the point of having only 34 yards, and they had a mere 65 yards as a team.
I'd say he did just fine, lol... I don't need a PFF grade for that one

Hudson did have the one terrible penalty, but i didnt notice him after that

I don't believe there is a man Guard or Center that can handle him one on one. He gets double teamed on every single play the guy is unbelievable IMO.

If not for him I think I would be questioning Berry's sanity in letting Richardson get away.

As of the moment this guy hit the field he was the BEST tackle in the league well maybe there is just one better....

When you look this defense over we have a lot of best in league players that is why when they started working together better this defense simply exploded.

I am sure they will have times when they make mistakes but Man O Man are they ever good, I don't think I ever dreamed we would ever have a defense that plays at this level.

The mix of talent is at every level and one helps feed the other. This unit is the very best I have ever seen, soon the heads will be talking about them and the elite level of play they are at.

When the Browns kick Garret or Clowney inside and bring in Takk they are the best front four pass attack in the NFL, there isn't any team that even comes close.

By the time the playoffs come we will be favored to win it all because of the balance we have, and because we can sustain injury and keep on beating the hell out of other teams.

We have a tough opponent this week and Herbert gets the ball out quickly, if we can do what we did to Cuz and I have every reason to believe we will that young man is in for a very long afternoon.

The bar other teams play at is being set by the Browns. Again I say the pieces are in place for us to be the next great NFL dynasty.

There will undoubtedly be afternoons when for some reason or another we aren't playing to our standard but I truly see us as being unstoppable on both sides of the ball.

Enjoy the ride it is bound to be very special for years to come.

Did any of you happen to watch the pre-game last week with Joe Thomas?

If you did what did you think about the Steve Smith dissing Joe?

I honestly think I would have punched him in the mouth. I thought about writing to the NFL network to get his sorry ass fired.

And Joe took it there are things and places you just don't go too, and he went way to far....

Could Kareem Hunt play Linebacker on the back side spying Lamar Jackson with the entire defense pursing from one side, and leaving open an escape route trap, right into the arms of Kareem Hunt. To stop Lamar Jackson scrambles.

Could it be the coach needs to get in sync with those guys?

Sunday the O-line was a bit shaky in it's protection. Bakers seemed untrusting of the line, and I can see why.

To help build chemistry between the players, maybe a few more quick type plays and less slower developing plays is in order?

We also have to consider that with Landry out, teams can double OBJ more or slide some protection his way in a zone D.

I can't say for sure about past games, but Sunday, Baker was uneasy in the pocket. He was under a lot of pressure.

Jordan Elliott did not play.

He is on the IR.

Browns’ offensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 4
Cleveland manages a win despite only putting 14 points on the board.

By Chris Pokorny

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/10/4/22708914/browns-offensive-snap-counts-stats-and-notes-week-4


Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on offense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 4 game against the Minnesota Vikings.

Quarterback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
QB Baker Mayfield 78 100% 15-of-33 (45.5%) for 155 yards. 2 rushes, 11 yards.

It’s OK to say that Baker Mayfield had an awful game in terms of accuracy, without having to question whether he’s worthy of being the team’s future franchise quarterback. Mayfield has had a lot of terrific performances over the past year, and yet I saw way too many fans questioning his long-term status with the team. My reaction to reading those takes was, “Where the hell did that come from?”
Back to the game itself: it was one of the worst games I’ve seen from Mayfield regarding his accuracy, which contrasted what we saw in the first two weeks. I still believed that his decision-making was solid, which is what I’m more concerned with, except for one play in the second half in which he inexplicably decided to try running on third down when RB Demetric Felton was wide open in the flat.
Even though the Browns’ offensive line has still been very good, I think we’re seeing Mayfield getting just a hair skittish at times, thanks to the left tackle situation.

Running Back
Pos Player Plays % Stats
RB Kareem Hunt 41 53% 14 carries, 69 yards (4.9 YPC), 1 TD. 2 catches, 17 yards (4 targets).
RB Nick Chubb 37 47% 21 carries, 100 yards (4.8 YPC). 1 catch, 5 yards (1 target).
FB Andy Janovich 5 6% 1 2-point conversion.

The running backs played at a high caliber, yet again. Nick Chubb churned his way for 100 yards rushing, while Kareem Hunt had 69 yards. Funny enough, Cleveland’s two biggest run plays came on “give up draw plays,” the first of which was a 33-yard scamper by Hunt that helped set up the team’s field goal heading into the half.
Per PFF, “Both backs were effective shrugging off would-be tacklers, as Chubb and Hunt collected 61% and 66.7% of their yards after contact, respectively.”
Andy Janovich played just 5 snaps, but he also played a rep on the two-point conversion attempt, which he caught in the flat.

Wide Receiver
Pos Player Plays % Stats
WR Odell Beckham 62 79% 2 catches, 27 yards (7 targets). 1 rush, 4 yards.
WR Donovan Peoples-Jones 46 59% No stats registered.
WR Rashard Higgins 41 53% 4 catches, 63 yards (7 targets).
WR Anthony Schwartz 15 19% 0 catches (1 target).
WR Demtric Felton 6 8% 2 catches, 12 yards (2 targets).

I’d be lying if the “chemistry” issues between Baker Mayfield and Odell Beckham weren’t creeping into my head again. I’ve made my stance clear before: I don’t think it’s Beckham’s fault, and I don’t place a lot of blame on Mayfield. However, I do feel that Mayfield still doesn’t play as loose mentally when Beckham is on the field.
The reason you don’t cast Beckham aside is that it’s on Mayfield to get better, because we saw several opportunities on Sunday that could have been touchdowns between the pair. One of them was on the last offensive series, when Beckham continued streaking but Mayfield claims he wanted him to stop in the open area.
It’s a bit weird that Donovan Peoples-Jones is seeing so many snaps, was the star of training camp, and yet he only has 4 catches for 57 yards on the year.
Rashard Higgins remains the security blanket for Mayfield, catching 4 passes for 63 yards. It’s telling that when Mayfield throws the ball to Higgins, the ball is sharp and on point.

Tight End
Pos Player Plays % Stats
TE Austin Hooper 56 72% 1 catch, 11 yards (5 targets).
TE David Njoku 52 67% 2 catches, 17 yards (2 targets).
TE Harrison Bryant 29 37% 1 catch, 3 yards (2 targets).

Mayfield couldn’t connect with his tight ends either on Sunday. He targeted Austin Hooper five times, but only connected with him once.
For the second week in a row, Harrison Bryant was wide open on a deep flag pattern, but Mayfield sailed the pass to him.

Offensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
OL Joel Bitonio 78 100%
OL JC Tretter 78 100%
OL Wyatt Teller 78 100%
OL Jack Conklin 78 100%
OL Jedrick Wills 57 73%
OL James Hudson 21 27%
Joel Bitonio was the Browns’ highest-graded player with a grade of 90.9.

Although the group’s effort in the run was praised, PFF says the Browns’ pass-rush was “less proficient in pass protection, allowing 20 pressures — including three sacks.”
Jedrick Wills limped off again, this time after playing 73% of the game. The surprising aspect this week was that James Hudson, not Blake Hance, replaced him. The reason given was that with Wills not practicing lately, Hudson has had a lot more practice reps and has improved. He did have a false start penalty that prevented the Browns from attempting a 4th-and-2 late in the game.

Browns’ defensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 4
Lights. Out.

By Chris Pokorny

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/10/4/22708915/browns-defensive-snap-counts-stats-and-notes-week-4


Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on defense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 4 game against the Minnesota Vikings.

Defensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
DL Myles Garrett 61 91% 3 tackles, 2 assists (5 combined). 0.5 sack, 2 TFL, 4 QH.
DL Malik Jackson 51 76% 2 assists (2 combined). 1 QH, 2 passes defended.
DL Jadeveon Clowney 49 73% 1 assist (1 combined).
DL Malik McDowell 44 66% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined). 1 QH.
DL Takk McKinley 38 57% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 sack, 1 TFL, 1 QH.
DL Jordan Elliott 15 22% No stats registered.
DL Joe Jackson 5 7% No stats registered.
DL Andrew Billings 5 7% No stats registered.

Wow, what can you say? As I said in my post-game recap, I considered this game a far more impressive defensive performance than the previous week. While the Browns brought pressure from different directions at times, the front four consistently won in the trenches and made Kirk Cousins uncomfortable.
Myles Garrett was the Browns’ highest-graded defender, grading out to a 90.2. Garrett logged 7 pressures on Kirk Cousins and had a high impact in not allowing him to settle in. Jadeveon Clowney had a quiet day on the stat sheet, but was still a force — he was the Browns’ third-highest graded defender with a grade of 81.4.
It was great to see Malik Jackson sway two passes down late in the game. He and Malik McDowell have combined to shatter my expectations for the team’s defensive front, and they are a big reason that Cleveland has the best run defense in the NFL.

Linebacker
Pos Player Plays % Stats
LB Malcolm Smith 51 76% 6 tackles, 2 assists (8 combined). 1 TFL.
LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah 35 52% 5 tackles, 2 assists (7 combined).
LB Sione Takitaki 24 36% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
LB Elijah Lee 14 21% 2 tackles (2 combined).
LB Mack Wilson 11 16% No stats registered.

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah was all over the field again. Even though he only graded out to a 75.8, the eye test passed with flying colors for him again.
Once again, I also liked what I saw from veteran Malcolm Smith. I haven’t seen enough of Anthony Walker to say who is a better fit for Cleveland once Walker returns, but all I know is that right now, the defense just turned in two lights out performances with Smith in there.
Sione Takitaki returned from injury and logged 3 tackles. Mack Wilson’s playing time is now minimal.

Cornerback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
CB Greedy Williams 67 100% 4 tackles, 2 assists (6 combined). 1 INT, 1 pass defended.
CB Denzel Ward 66 99% 2 tackles, 2 assists (4 combined). 0.5 sack, 2 QH, 1 pass defended.
CB Troy Hill 42 63% 2 tackles, 2 assists (4 combined). 1 TFL, 1 pass defended.
CB A.J. Green 1 1% 1 tackle (1 combined).

I’ve dumped on Greedy Williams quite a bit, and although he still has more to prove, he delivered a solid game against the Vikings, including snagging the first interception of the season off of Kirk Cousins. On top of that, Williams was graded an 86.4 by PFF, the second-highest mark on defense.
Troy Hill had his best game with the club, even though he had a pass interference penalty in the fourth quarter that helped extend the game. Per PFF, Hill “saw a team-high six targets, yet surrendered just two catches for 20 yards and forced a game-high two incompletions.”
A.J. Green played one snap and allowed a sideline catch (the play that Kevin Stefanski challenged). However, I don’t know if you can really complain about Green’s coverage, that was just a terrific catch by the receiver that was well-contested.

Safety
Pos Player Plays % Stats
S John Johnson 67 100% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 QH.
S Grant Delpit 65 97% 2 assists (2 combined).
S M.J. Stewart 24 36% 3 tackles (3 combined).
S Ronnie Harrison 2 3% 1 tackle (1 combined).

Ronnie Harrison was ruled out early on due to the concussion protocol (which he’s already been cleared of). I swear that Harrison holds the record for the most games in which he starts, only to get injured or ejected within the first two snaps.
Harrison’s departure allowed Grant Delpit to shine. Delpit played a career-high 65 snaps (97%), and was most remembered for the diving pass breakup he made in the second half — the stat was negated by a roughing the passer penalty away from the ball.

Harrison certainly has had a handful of games where he’s taken out of it very early (and for crazy reasons)

Before this game I posted that this game should give us a real measure of the defense.

First game Chiefs away. Tough game for a new defense.

Second game Texans. Tyrod went down. He was playing well. A rookie came in and we got to him.

The Bears were unprepared for our defense. Fields was put into a bad position by a horrible game plan.

The Vikings came in hot on offense. Cousins was throwing 73% completion rate. 8TD's 0 ints. Had not thrown a int. in 200 plays. Zimmer said their offense was playing better than he had ever seen. They are a talented offense all the way around.

First drive they came right down the field.

After that they never had a chance. The Browns suffocated them. Swarmed to the ball. Pushed the pocket. Applied constant pressure. Stopped their runners. Covered their receivers. Got the big turnover.

Unreal effort by the defense against a top offense.

Every player on the defense played well. Big games from a bunch of players.

Myles, JOK, Ward, McDowell, M Jackson, JJ3, Clowney, Greedy, Hill, Delpit.

I mean damn they were amazing. This is a big deal. It was the fourth game. The defense is improving each game.

When you play defense at this level. You automatically are in the game. The offense has to protect the ball and make a few plays.

The luxury the Browns have is their ability to run the ball. No team can do what we can do running the football.

KS and AVP will fix the offense. Baker will play better.

After four games the Browns are in great shape. We are not to beat up on injuries. Jarvis will be back for the Cardinals.

There are some things to clean up but nothing that can not be done.

I wonder a little about Baker in the pocket. They mis-direction roll outs have been taken out. Maybe because there is a bunch of tape that is now out there and defenses have adjusted. Baker seems to be more on target when moving and out of the pocket.

He feels pressure from the LT. When he climbs the pocket. He is not resetting with confidence. He hurries.

He needs to slide to open space under control and trust what he sees.

IMO Baker will work his way out. He knows what has to be fixed. He will work to correct the problems.

So, in conclusion. I feel great. We are actually better than what I thought. Because I was not sure the defense would be this good so quickly.

I missed it. Who said what?
Steve Smith, the receiver? What did he say??

Small correction to the article: we are not the NFL best Run Defense (yet).

We are 3rd Best Run Defense.
We are the Best Run Offense.


For all of us old timers around here, we FINALLY Run the Ball and Stop the Run.

We just so happen to be 3rd Best Passing Defense, too.
We are the 7th Worst Passing Offense.

If memory serves me, most of his gaffes came at the RT spot in preseason and not the LT spot.

Good catch

Elliot has played in all 4 games this year.

Running on memory but he said Joe sucked and shouldn't be listened to because the Browns were so bad when he was there and on and on. Had my blood boiling Joe Thomas is a shoe in 1st vote HOF and Steve Smith won't get within sniffing distance of the HOF.

And he had the guts to say crap like that to Joe's face and nice guy Joe let him get away with it. Some things you just don't do he crossed the line. At the least I would have let Steve know you crossed the line back up.... But Joe just smiled but I am sure he was boiling, I would not let anyone go there with me, not after the career Joe had. Not after all the pain he suffered through and showed every week no matter what.

It was the most classless thing I have ever witnessed. here sits a man who gave everything he had for a team that sucked and he came out the best maybe ever to play his spot to disrespect Joe for how he poured his guts out every single time he hit the field, no way....I would have broken his jaw.

He was a classless player and now as a commentator he has brought his classlessness to the booth. A real POS.

I don't know, Steve Smith was a darn good receiver. I think he has a chance at the HOF.

As to any knock on Joe, I didn't hear it. I don't know how serious he was and how much it was a poke in the ribs.

We can agree that Steve Smith is awful on that show. Can't believe he hasn't been replaced yet. Very hard to listen to in general. Brings almost nothing to the show.

The only thing wrong with Joe Thomas is he had the misfortune of having played on bad teams because the organization that ran it was so poorly run. Joe should get a medal for putting up with it his whole career. What a tremendous waste of talent.

I didn't hear it, and I couldn't find it in Google searches, but what I did find is quite a few instances of them clowning around with each other.

I don't think subtlety is tool SS has honed yet.

he was good, but he wasn't THAT good. He definitely wasn't Great.

I was thinking of Jacob Phillips.

Forgot about the DT Elliott.

The o-line has looked good in run blocking all year but this is the 2nd game that they looked shaky in pass protection - JMO
I think your point about Baker trusting his o-line is a profound one. Seems to me that when Baker feels the line is going to give him good protection that he does well, even on those plays that he gets pressured. But in games that he doesn't trust the o-line he struggles, even on plays where they give him great protection.

For what it's worth I thought well he is just joking but it sure didn't come off that way in the end. The more he said the further he went...

You can't get up in a guy likes Joe's face after he played his heart out for awful teams and showed every single week every single snap. Not even joking would I go there. I am sure it hurt Joe....

Made my blood boil. Oh and I didn't imagine it, it happened I watched it turned it off after that like I said I was pissed....

Oh and Smith won't get a whiff of the HOF.............

Are you confusing Jordan Elliott with Jacob Phillips?

Jordan Elliott is not on the IR. He played in the game.

It's part of their schtick. It' Steve Smith being the same player he was on the field on the camera. Trash talker.

Joe Thomas didn't give it a second thought.

I think the original poster was thinking of Jacob Phillips, who is on IR.

That's what I get for not reading the whole thread before responding.

In other observations from YTown, the sky is blue.

I agree. I never said there was. I don't think anyone does, thus any comments made by Smith make me believe the comments were more for show impact....kind of like Sharpe and Bayless....kind of a point counterpoint type deal, but again, I didn't see the show.

He was also injured, barely practiced last week, and didn't play in Week 3. Yes, he only had 34 yards...that's because he only carried the ball 9 times. I think we dodged a bullet not having to play against a 100% Dalvin Cook. I'm super worried about Ekeler this week as they are somewhat similar in how they are used.

Ekeler is his own challenge. He's smaller and shiftier. It will be a test.
Until these last two weeks, however, he wasn't doing diddly. I don't know why or what the story there is, but his production was crap the first two weeks and they had no run game at all. Hopefully, we can send them back to that.

Cook is what he is, and he was good enough to go, and he averaged 3.4 per carry. I don't think we dodged anything. I think we ran headlong into all of it and did just fine.

Cook got hurt during the game. There was a stretch where he wasn't available.

We were also without Ronnie Harrison for most of the game and Walker has been out. IMO speculating on how things would go if certain individuals were healthier heading into the game is kinda pointless. Cook had a couple nifty runs/moves, and the coaches seemed to think that having him as the #1 was still their best play.

If that is is schtick he needs a punch in the face to go with it.

No there are things even with best friends who break balls don't do I saw it as hurtful cheap and classless.

Ekeler is probably the best back we will have faced this season.

266 that is how many yards the Browns have given up on the ground to start the season.

That is the least number of yards the Browns have ever given up to start a season.

Not a big deal right? Think about all the truly great teams the Browns have fielded in their 75 year history and this is the BEST EVER.

I am glad I did not see that.

I liked Smith as a player.

But from reading that I would have been pissed.

If the game didn't go exactly as you would have liked it too.
As someone once said.
Channel that energy into trying out, suiting up in a helmet and play your own NFL game.

he was impressive last night. So quick and strong. Plus, great out of the backfield.

We watched CLE give up that much to Jamaal Lewis in one game .

Good times.

Sorry, but I had to make that correction.

That one was bad, especially sitting in the stadium with all those horrible Ravens' fans.

Baker played maybe his worst game as a pro, the only saving grace was that he didn't give any points away with a horrible INT. He took too many sacks, he was inaccurate, just a bad day..

Good news is that we won anyway. Have we fired Joe Woods yet?

I think the offense will be fine but... having watched all 4 games (and having watched how last year played out) Baker and the Browns are not making a very compelling case that the offense is better with OBJ on the field. Don't know what it is, don't hate OBJ, but this offense just never seems to find the same rhythm with him on the field that it does when he's not.

Stefanski did it again on 3rd and short in the red zone where he threw it even though he knew he was going to go for it, then he threw it again. Incompletion followed by a sack, just like the Bears game. 3rd and 4 or less, if we are going on 4th down, run the ball, then run it again...... every time, until they stop you.

If Baker has another bad game against LA, time to sit him.

If he is injured, let him heal.

This would be a great plan if Case Keenum wasn’t the backup.

Didn't Keenum once take Minny to the playoffs? I know he is not great, but he can play.

Yes. Then the Vikings couldn’t wait to replace him with a much more expensive QB. He signed with Denver, was terrible, signed with Washington, was terrible, and signed with us as a backup.

I thought so too until I saw this years' preseason.
Keenum couldn't hit a gimme in the red zone in a pre-season game after several tries!!

I thought, sure stand up for Keenum but he was out played, should have been waived, Lauletta the better option frankly. Too late now.
Live with whatever.
Won't make Keenum able to play and not be a huge liability all of a sudden though.

We kept Keenum over Lauletta for one reason and that's because he has experience and we have an offense that can win without a lot of difficult throws for a game or two, Keenum might have been the better option. But Lauletta was definitely a better thrower of the football.

I saw lauletta play a game for the giants once. He sucked