That’s a hard loss

The injuries though hurt even more than the loss. Next week we play cardinals without all 3 starting corners and both starting offensive tackles

this was a Clash of the Titans kind of game.

but.....we wouldnt even be talking about a loss if it wasn't for the horrible referee's.


that DPI on 4th down was just absolutely inexcusable.

Definitely felt like the fix was in. Yay, legalized gambling.

Horrible play calling by KS in the 4th quarter.

We have no one on D left to play the Cards on Sunday.

Refs wearing powder blue.

A typical Browns loss.

I've had enough.

As good as Baker played this game will not put to rest any notion among many that he just isn’t an elite, clutch finisher.

Not really happy with the Stefanski play calling with 3 minutes to go where the Browns wound up going 3 and out. That was the game.

bro i know. i mean i hate blaming refs for L's but damn it felt like they did everything possible to help the chargers win.

and i dont want to hear a word about baker.

the last 2 drives is on Stefanski calling horrible plays.

That DPI on green was a terrible call.

Poor refereeing for sure but the offense put up 42 and lost. This is completely on defense. Again. No other team worries about losing putting up 42.

On the drive before the last one where you punted to the Chargers, Chubb wasn't on the field at all. Why? Is he banged up?

--Browns got out coached and out ref'ed today.

--I know they want Baker to have less turnovers, but when you coach the gunslinger out of the gunslinger, you don't have any bullets when you need to bring a gun to a gunslinger fight. Maybe that's why Stefanski made that bull crap, chicken chit run call on 3rd and 10 knowing his defense couldn't stop the Chargers. What a gutless attempt at coaching.

--Baker is, well, this is why I'm so critical of Baker. If you don't have a QB who can bring you back, you could still win a lot of games, but you won't go the distance. I had no belief he would deliver a game winning drive. 1:30 is an eternity for a good QB. He wasted most of that just to get 12 yards.

--It ruined what was a nice bounce back game for him that will hopefully build some confidence moving forward. It wasn't an elite game. They didn't want to put the ball in his hands. Meanwhile, the Chargers were all about Herbert.

--Baker, throw the ball to OBJ. Please. He's open all game long. Why won't you throw the ball to OBJ?

--Gillan is awful.

--Defense reverting back to the mean. Couldn't make a play to save their lives.

--Cardinals next week. Could this Super Bowl contender start out 3-3?

The worst officiating I have seen.

We got held on so many plays.

The 4th down call for PI was unreal. The ref was right there looking at the play.

The receiver was pushing off and holding. Uneffing believable.

I am sick about that damn game.

No execuses for some of miss coverages.

Bakers a good dude. Funny guy. Easy to root for.

He is Not an elite QB. I like him. He’s a middle-of-the-pack QB with elite weapons.

Can you imagine what Tom Brady would do with this offense? Lamar Jackson? Ben?

I love the kid. He’s not elite.

He doesn't trust Baker to make plays. I still believe he should have called those plays more aggressively, but when you watch your QB miss wide open guys all game long, it's not confidence inspiring.

The difference between the Chargers and the Browns is that no matter the situation Herbert was going to give them a chance. For the Browns, as soon as they went down and needed a game winning drive for the win, they had no chance.

I disagree. What cost us the game was two wide open, uncovered Chargers for 50+ yards TDs. The refs had nothing to do with that.

Horrible PI call
Horrible play calling on drive with 3 min left
Horrible 2 minute drill, not sure if that's on Baker or Ski or both.

And was it just me or did 71 OL from the Chargers flinch his arm before almost every snap?

We had 500 yards and 0 TOs and lost

Yep

Brutal.

- Aj Green and Greedy played their asses off.

- Refs gave LAC a TD. Horrible.

- Chubb and Hunt are an amazing duo.

- Injuries piling up.

- Breakout game for Njoku.

- Jamie Gillan needs to go. He's been bad for awhile.

- The legend of Chase McLaughlin grows.

- Everyone just stopped on the Hail Mary when Njoku fell.

- Stefanski choked at the end of the game. A run on 3rd and 10? Really. Your punter can't kick it more than 40 yards and the defense was not stopping Herbert. Cannot give him the ball back in that situation. Staley nearly botched it by just not having Herbert take a knee.

- 7 yard passes over the middle with no timeouts. Yikes.

- OBJ not really a part of the game plan.

If it's determined by the end of the season that Mayfield isn't the guy - if I'm the Browns GM, I'm calling Seattle and attempting to trade for Russell Wilson. Because he's going to waste up there with the current state of the Seahawks.

Having a difficult time processing this one. This is a tough loss.

Sure, the bull-crap DPI was a difference maker. But it would have been nice to see the D make a stop. Our DBs were abused this entire game.

KS was out-coached. The play-calling got really bad. Maybe bonus points for actually running on 4th and short ... the QB can't get sacked.

We put up 42. This loss can only go on the D. And the play-calling late. A three and out at that point was about the worst thing that could have happened. Of course, we immediately gave up a 30-yard play.

They’re not even trying with OBJ. I gotta think we could probably figure out a more affordable decoy if I’m the front office.

Seattle or hot take time ...

Aaron Rodgers will be a Brown next year.

Your opinion and you are welcome to it - but [1] it's complete and total conjecture. [2] I think it's BS and driven by your agenda which is either anti-Baker or trying to get folks on the board to react to your biased schtck.

The Browns have to figure out by the end of the year if the problem is the QB, or the WR. I know which way I'm leaning as of right now.

2 Things

1. We will get an apology letter tomorrow on the bad DPI call

2. Why was Chubb Not in the Game when we were ahead 42-41 I love Hunt but Chubb is a grinder and gets the yards needed

Looking forward to the rinse and repeat KS presser.

“I have to do a better job of putting these guys in the right situations.”

We know that, Kev.

He called those plays because he knows who his QB is.

This. Run him up the middle and he'd fall for at least 5. Run Hunt around the side for a loss. Unreal

Possible. But Rodgers is older, and tends to be more temperamental than Wilson.

We've done this too many times. It's never good. I always see us getting marched off the field 3 and out. It never fails. Better plays and execution is never ever there. Something has to be done.

Especially in the 4th Q where Chubb becomes virtually unstoppable.

I thought it was curious that we had Hunt in the game instead of Chubb

I don't at this time really have any thoughts on that game that weren't widely evident by watching it.
I watched the game, I did not run a marathon, or play volleyball for 3 and a half hours, but, physically I feel like it.

I may not have the ticker I did even pre 2019.

Those poor players, man, they deserve better. (And I'm not talking about from the coaches, I'm talking about from the officiating.)

Coaching and mediocre QB play cost us just as much as the refs. Defense did it self no favors but they atleast had an excuse with everyone going down. We need better linebackers. I said before the season that everyone is putting way to much confidence that Walker is an upgrade...he is not, Goodson is a better linebacker. The middle was open all day and Woods couldn't find a way to mitigate it. On offense, Stefanski once again proves that he should give up playcalling and just be a HC. If the run game isn't working the offense looks like every browns offense since 99. I think theres something to be said about Baker not being allowed to sling it. They basically took Aaron Rodgers and turned him in to trent dilfer. If that is indeed the case then that even more so proves KS should hand off playcalling. Everything was short and YAC today and it worked well until we needed to be able to open up and get yards in the air in chunks and we couldn't..Baker is still the 4th best QB in our division in terms of playmaking ability. If they truly want to know what they have they have to turn him loose and let him play. Live with the turnovers, every QB has them and thats how they learn what their limits or the receivers limits are.

Basically we are a running team that has to have alot of things go right for us to win. Our defense is mediocre because we have alot of guys playing in a scheme that doesn't suit their strengths, but the defense has shown when healthy can get to the passer. Thats atleast and identity to build on. Coaching really needs to improve from playcalling on both sides.

Gillan has been bad since last year. Punters are dime a dozen, we shouldn't be keeping on with this guy. Its always the worst time he shanks one too.

The good, pretty much chubb, hunt and Njoku. The oline did well today considering. As long as chubb and hunt are healthy we are going to win games.

My agenda is I'm pro-Browns. The coaching was bad today, the defense was bad today, the Browns were jobbed by the refs. It happens every week in the NFL. And we still had a chance to win; we just needed a game winning drive. The difference between the real winners and losers is the QB position despite those things.

As soon as the Browns needed a game winning drive to win the game, they were done. We don't have that kind of QB.

I wish we did because I'm pro-Browns.

It's in the best interest of everyone if Baker could be that guy. I would love if Baker could be that guy. Nothing would make me happier. In year 4, I haven't seen it. It's year 4. How much longer do we have to wait before making the call he's not clutch.

He's the quarterback. I am going to root my butt off for him and the team. I just don't have any confidence that the Browns can win it all with him. I would love to be proven wrong. But just show me.

1) Officiating.
2) Stefanski horrible play calls at end of game.
3) Stefanski's inability to get his best WR involved in the game
4) Officiating.

Beyond frustrated with the playcalling. You have the best RB tandem in the league, and pass on 2nd and 10?

everyone says that about AR but the reality is, he only gets that way because GB keeps refusing to get him skill position players. He'd kill it here.. I rather have AR than Wilson tbh, I'm sick of shorter Qb's. Though both are tremendous deep ball throwers which baker is probably the worst, you couldn't keep secondary up to support run like they do with us now.

We desperately need Baker to start winning these sort of games. Unfortunately we seem to be on the losing side nearly every time

A loss 100% on coaching.

Injuries hurt us - and may hurt for moving on to next week also. But we had the game - and instead of playing to win, we played not to lose. The whole of the second half the O looked like they were being out coached. The D made plays but Chargers won the game with aggressive 4th down play calling that we didn't stop once (I believe).

I knew that someone somewhere would try to blame Baker for not doing more. I mean he should have helped the Refs with better calls, he sure should have prevented all the injuries mounting up and then the way Baker blew the two wide open TD throws to Mike Williams ? Man - st8 trash. Meanwhile the same poster that drools over Herbert won't mention the gifts on D we gave him - or the throw missing a wide open TE that would have been for a 1st down.

I said at the half to friends - I'd love to see the Browns mix it up and have Van Pelt call plays for a half. Something to mix it up and get out of the routine that KS has been. The 7 point lead at half was great - and there's an argument to say why change what's not broke. But it really seems that we (KS) do have a tendency to get into something of a predictable pattern. I really wanted a deep bomb off play action when we had the first play at 42-41. But we ran up the middle for no gain to a stacked D. Then pass - incomplete - then a no chance for a 1st down delay.

Agree with some other comments - Gillian can and should be replaced. If all we ever needed was accurate 37 yard punts, he'd have a job for life. But when you need a boomer to get some space out of your own 20 ... never going to happen with Gillian.

Oh - and while Greedy had a great game, he was a dumb fk for reacting to the taunt. That would have been a huge penalty on Chargers if he doesn't react. Or if he reacts by throwing his hands up and calling to the refs. C'mon man.

Oh - and we really missed Clowney. No pressure with rushing 4 without him. MG doubled all day.

On to the Cardinals. Another tough game but at least we are home.

Baker has yet to put this team on his back and win.

All of Baker's throws were never downfield like Herbert.

6-7 yard passes.......Injury causing this? WR's running wrong routes?

Embarrassing.

I think we have to accept him for who he is. Just know that if the game is on the line and in his hands, it's probably a loss. Adjust your expectations.

Fortunately, we will probably be in the lead a lot so we will still win games.

But how big is the Cardinals game next week. We could be 3-3.

j/c...

Coached scared. Learn from it.

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
Kevin Stefanski said he ran the ball on third-and-long (before the Chargers go-ahead TD) because in part the #Browns were playing backup OTs. Said he didn’t want anything bad to happen there.

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1447348271236616197

Well said. Agreed. The big money QBs take the ball with 1:30 left and get a win. Maybe not all the time but a lot. Baker doesn’t ever. He’s a great guy. Not a 45 million dollar
guy. I just think about what the other qbs in his class could be doing with this team.

That’s tough.

Good point. If that is Mahomes or Rodgers or Herbert? No doubt they’re winning that game

There are posters on this Board that do not know what they are talking about.

Unknowledable and opinionated and that is all.

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
The #Browns are the first team in NFL history, including the playoffs, to lose when scoring 40-plus points with 500 yards and zero turnovers, according to Elias @ESPNStatsInfo

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1447344319782813698

What's crazy is that Baker used to make so many plus level throws. That was his calling card. It was exciting. High octane offense.

But Stefanski wants to be run heavy and low risk. He's pretty much coached Baker's best attribute out of him.

What the Browns do best, set records of futility

Having seen your posts after the first two games of this season where baker was throwing at over 80% completitions and you were calling him average - having witnessed your 'takes' and assessment of Baker in the very harshest of lights ever since he was drafted - having seen you drool over other young QB's but ommit any of the criticism you give Baker for similar missed throws etc .... I highly doubt you want to see Baker succeed, I think you would rather ride the unpopular but "I told you so" train. Just how I see it as you never seem to have a balanced take on Baker. . . . lots of Baker supporters have also been critical of Baker when he has played badly or shown happy feet or a lack of progressions, and they show a pretty balanced perspective ... but there is only a negative side to your opinions voiced on BM.

JC

Some general thoughts.

I thought Greedy played well.

Ward is done in Cleveland. I don't see any way we sign that guy to a new big contract.

If John Johnson was here to get the defensive backfield in to position, I'd say he failed today. I am not sure how you leave not one, but two receivers uncovered for 2 long TD passes. WTF?? I know many don't like Woods, but I'll guarantee that the defensive scheme doesn't include leaving entire sides of the deep field with nobody in some sort of coverage.

We have the running game. I'd take steps to use some of Wards money to keep a few of the O-linemen, such as Teller.

Stefanski is getting a bit predictable with some of his calls. Screens to backs is something other teams are looking for....we might need to give that call a rest for a while.

Frustrating loss. When you score over 40 you aren't supposed to lose.

OBJ...I don't know what the problem is, but the shine if off the apple.

Baker...if the shine is off of OBJ, some has to come off of Baker as well. Those two just can't seem to work together.

ummm they were good enough to give baker more than enough time. Stefanski needs to stop being soft with the play calling. defense are stacking the box trying to stop the run, which means it should be easy to scheme our guys open for Baker. Stefanski needs to step up.

Colin Cowherd has been saying this about Baker for a while. He said it this past week that drives at the end of games determine and define the QB. He's right about Baker until Baker proves otherwise.

I don't know why you pay that much attention to me if it causes you that much emotional distress. Just ignore me.

I ways I agree. This week the scaled back play calling seemed to hinder our chances more than the effort of the QB.

And we do need to keep our comments about the O in context...we did score over 40 points. The results of the game don't sit on the backs of the offense.

Looking at the 2nd and 10 play with 3 mins left … OBJ is WIDE open. DIsgusting

I think we were called for holding on 2 of our last 3 drives. I did not see a replay on any of those. Refs killed us at the end

That's not clutch.

Baker is just average.

The more I think about it, the more I believe he won't be a Brown next year.

Berry aggressively tries to win. I think he'll do something big.

I don't know, I'd have to go look at the play and how it unfolded. I do know he was wide open on a 4th down pass that he dropped.

No emotional distress here. And you post whatever you want. But it's a public forum... post an opinion and expect someone to comment.

Hey - but nice play (jk) on the "emotional" dig. All class right there.

Chargers are a good team. I lost a bet.

My friend, that is how you have to look at it. That is just the guys schtick.

You know, I know we scored over 40 points. Some act like we were held to 3 field goals.

Exactly. You can blame the D all you want but it wasn't the same D as the last 2 weeks because of all the injuries. We started off with a couple of guys out and then we had injury after injury with guys going on and off the field. How in the good Lords name can you get any continuity playing like that? There's no rhythm to what you're tryng to do.

Yes it is.

Baker is playing hurt.

Maybe. Tampa Bay was 3-2 after 5 games last season. Don't give up on the Browns just yet.

To all those who are saying Baker is average you are entitled to your opinions but let me remind you that he is playing hurt.

The Browns lost a game to a good team on the West Coast. Even with all the injuries on D, and a QB who is not 100 %, they still almost won. There are still 12 games left. The Browns will be fine.

TOLD YOU ALL THEY COULDN'T BEAT US IN PREDICTIONS THREAD! We beat ourselves. We had a two TD lead in this game, Woods and the D hurt us with injuries and not being able to stop their drives. And there was nothing methodical about their big scoring drives... Herbert rolled out left and threw across his body to hit a wide open WR on a play where our whole D backfield was to the right of the WR as he waltzed into the endzone. And how many 3rd and longs did we let them convert? I know they converted many 3rds and 4ths today and that speaks to coaching and our depth not being up to speed.

We really missed Clowney today. I think he would have made the difference. Herbert would not have been able to scramble like he did today if Myles had more help.

OBJ is just a guy taking up a roster spot IMHO. Once again, Higgins showed up as much as OBJ. And I don't care what Rishuz says, baker played better by spreading it around. And OBJ dropped a pass that hit his numbers and he had two hands touch the ball! It's like if he can't get a one-handed freakish catch, he's useless.

The final minutes are on Ski's play calling, but this is where Baker needs to step up and make things happen. He did not again. I honestly think OBJ, Baker and Ski are all suffering growing pains. Been so long since OBJ has been that game changing elite player, maybe he's forgotten how or simply can't do it anymore? Baker bounced back but it doesn't count with an L.

On to next week where unless we get a whole bunch of guys back, we have our work really cut out for us. And if we see the chargers again in the playoffs, we will kick their asses.

EDIT: BTW, has anyone ever seen a D grab the other teams running back on the one yard line and push them in for a TD? I think that's an NFL first.

If the zebras do their job and correctly keep the flag in their pants on that 4th down PI call, all this BS about Mayfield failing somehow today would stay confined inside the fertile imaginations of the hot-take geniuses on this message board where they belong, instead of being posted here tonight. Some of you guys make me sick.

Mayfield needs to put more trust in OBJ; that's the biggest issue I think. He can win 1 on 1's, he's got a history of doing it throughout his career with the Giants. Either way, OBJ needs to be involved in the game more, whether it be using end arounds, etc. DPJ getting more balls thrown his way than your supposed #1 WR is...odd, especially when your #1 isn't being followed around the field by their best CB.

Hope you are right about OBJ, but I have not seen a thing that makes me think he's our number one WR. That's Laundry, then Higgins, period. AND I don't want to give up on the guy but the eyes don't lie. If all we were expecting from him was mediocre, he delivered in spades. Else, he fell far short of being impressive and has since he's been here IMHO. But hey, he was elite once.

As soon as they missed the XP I announced to the room we lost.

I said now we will run it up the middle 3 times and punt.

I said we should let them score right away so it's our offense that decides the game with 3 minutes left.

Then thank goodness we finally did but after wasting 1.5 minutes. (cuz they should've just taken a knee but didn't like idiots).

This isn't reality. It's a script movie I've seen soon many times.

For the first time in my life I just have no motivation to even watch the next game. Same reason I can't get into the WWE.

Scripted theater sports is fun for many, not knocking it, just not my thing.

oh and not even gonna get into the Refs lol, that one is plain as day for anyone to see.

Oh and also I really thought we finally had THE guy in Stefanski, but his play calling has been ATROCIOUS.

I don't know what is going on with OBJ... But when OBJ has been in games the general consensus has been that we try to force it to him too much. OBJ has done very little in a Browns uni and I don't know why. Last year it was like he didn't know where to line up, BM was constantly re-aligning him... And he's had more than his share of drops for any WR that wants to be considered elite.

j/c...

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
#Browns linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah suffered a throat contusion and has been taken to a local hospital as a precaution for further evaluation.

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1447359688530530305

We scored 42 with both of our starting tackles out ... Wills for the whole game, and Conklin for the 2nd half, IIRC.

We were missing, at one point or another, our top 3 outside CB.

Our top 3 DE were all injured .... and Clowney was out altogether.

Tough way to play a good team, on the road, on the opposite side of the country.

I get the frustration... But you don't score 40+ by being atrocious. And KS has finished plenty of games off by controlling the game and clock.... I think he's still learning, is not infallible and might need help to prevent falling into patterns and stop being too conservative

Wow.

Burrows suffered the same injury today.

Joe Burrow hospitalized for a throat contusion following Bengals' Week 5 loss to Packers - CBSSports.com
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/joe-b...oss-to-packers/

Great game! Someone had to lose... Sad it was us.

Points during the middle of the game are fine, but real winning coaches are made in crunch time. His play calling during that time was atrocious.

- Not sure why John Johnson is getting grief...those 2 blown coverages sure looked like Delpit both times.

- Speaking of blown coverages, there was one earlier in the game on OBJ that was to be a gift TD. Baker threw to Njoku for 20 instead, and I'm pretty sure we scored on that drive, but those are still the sorts of misses he needs to clean up.

- Honestly, I'm getting worried about Stefanski. For one, his playcalling in the most crucial drives is at least equally as anti-clutch as Baker is knocked for. From the Chiefs playoff game to the Chiefs game 1 to this one, just terrible. Second, although I disagree with RISH about Baker's potential, I do agree that his best attribute is being coached out of him because Stefanski is so afraid of TOs. He's trying to re-make Favre 2.0 into a guy that just makes safe throws. Rewatch highlights of Baker in 2018, or heck even 2019, and tell me why Baker has regressed.

- Not only the horrible PI call, but the Tretter "hold", the non-fumble call, no holding on Garrett take-down, these were horrendous. Usually, bad calls even out over the course of the game...we did not get the benefit of a single one.

- Does anyone think we can hang with the Cardinals with 3 missing OTs, 3 missing CBs, and a QB that is not seeing the field well right now? This game was so critical, because it was right in front of them, and now another loss takes us to .500.

- Has NFL started releasing the all 22 yet? I'd really like to know if receivers are getting open.

- Time to move on from Jamie Gillan. Fun story, but he's just not good. Another anti-clutch. Perhaps that can just be the name for these Browns.

If you had told me earlier this week that a team in the NFL would put up 42 points, have no turnovers, put up 230 yards rushing, 530 yards of total offense, give away no turnovers, actually get 1 takeaway, and dominate time of possession by 36 to 24, then I would have said that is impossible for that team to lose.

For LA to score 47 points in 23:30 is over 2 points per minute of offensive possession. That is absurd.

OBJ still trying to extend his career off of 1 catch 7+ years ago...when is the trade deadline again?

Tough game....

defense just got torched in the second half... had some horrible calls and non-calls by refs...

offense was good most of the game... OBJ basically non-factor.... Njoku, Hunt, and Chubb were fantastic.... poor play calling late.

You get the ball with a one point lead and 3 min left... no way you should give the ball back.... then you get the ball down 5 with 1:30 left... you have to give yourself a shot to win... horrible play calling and 2 min offense on that last drive.

injuries really hurt us but that can't be an excuse... we had ample chances to win this game... this hurt...

Here’s a weird thing IMO: the XP miss actually hurt us. They could play the run and we lost the threat to pass/run. I would have actually preferred a tie game, even though it sounds weird

Let me see if I have this correct.

Browns scored 42 points. Browns gave up 47 points.
531 Yards of offense

230 Yards Rushing - 3 TD's
22/32 305 Yards Passing - 2 TD's

==================================================

We gave up 47 Points

112 Yards Rushing - 3 TD's
26/43 398 Yards Passing - 4 TD's
================================================

4th quarter 3:00 remain Browns have the ball with a one point lead. It is third down and ten. Browns on there own 15 yardline.

The head coach calls a inside run with Hunt. The play gains three yards. The Browns punt.

Chargers get he ball near mid field come down the field and win the game.

53 players on the roster.

Baker Mayfield was the reason the Browns lost the game.

Does that about cover it?

Baker wasn't the reason the Browns lost today.

But a lot of fans would like him to be the reason the Browns win a game.

He had a chance to do that today and failed. Again.

Baker is average. Adjust your expectations or you're going to have to do the same mental gymnastics as your post a lot more this season.

And you might pull something.

Question: What would Browns fans think if he suddenly goes to a team and plays like he did with the Giants? Wouldn't that essentially be the referendum on whether or not Mayfield is a franchise QB? Ironically enough, the way the Browns are currently constructed is the team that needs a prime Josh Gordon right about now.

OBJ is open a lot.

Mayfield refuses to throw to him.

I've noticed. It's starting to become a trend; and if it continues, that doesn't bode well for Mayfield's long term prospects as QB of the Browns and their potential championship aspirations.

It’s what I don’t get about the anti-OBJ, if he was getting targets and doing nothing I could see it, but I see him open a lot, especially by nfl standards and he just doesnt get the ball. Mayfield is always taking the safe play and not challenging the defense and I have to believe a lot of it is stefanski, because we’ve seen Baker make some insane throw ala the 55 yard landry bomb rolling left against panthers. It’s becoming apparent stefanski isn’t all everyone thought he was as a playcaller

They coached out of Baker the best part of his game...plus level, downfield throws. He was never very clutch to begin with. Now without any gunslinging at all, if you don't have the lead late, you basically have no chance.

I love Baker but 2nd Year Herbert > 4th year Mayfield

This is one thing I said today: baker is sufficient when we have the lead but as soon as we get down late he’s way less effective

Our D gave up 26 points in the 4th quarter. How is that even possible?? We didn't work any clock in the 4th. So disappointed in our D on 3rd and 4th downs. They were gassed in the end and looked to have thrown in the white flag when player after player was going down.

Aside from the obvious missed plays in the game this is where the game was lost. The Browns went conservative in a game were you needed to outscore the other team. I don’t understand why we ran on third down. I can’t accept the reasoning that it was became of the tackles. Staley went for it 3 times to get back in the game, and the Browns folded under pressure.

Either Stefanski was telling the truth or he didn't trust Baker.

One paints Stefanski in a bad light, one Baker.

Both are bad.

Yada, yada. I wouldn't throw to him either after hitting in the numbers and watching him use both hands to drop it. I would have benched him the rest of the game and put in our third string WR behind him. It would have been an improvement.

In regards to the series with 3 minutes left:

I would have told Schwartz to take the touchback

I would have wanted Chubb in there instead of Hunt

You then have to do one of two things IMO: either pass on 1st down or run on 2nd down. They were expecting a run on 1st down, maybe that’s a great way to go safe/PA (like an arrow route off PA). 2nd down could have been the draw play call IMO when they were expecting pass.

the 3rd down call wasn’t good, but the series up to that point sucked

Never clutch? He has 7 fourth quarter winning drives in 4 seasons. Not every game comes down to a final drive

I learned something today and that is no matter how well you play you can't beat crappy ref's.

We had a 1:30 to beat them.

Seriously, if we aren't going to use OBJ, please trade him before the trade deadline

would anybody trade for him right now? With his contract I doubt it

One other note I just thought about (the game was so long and so many twists/turns) … after our take away with :38 in the first half, our clock management was atrocious. We could have squeezed out a TD (they were on their heels). That was a bad series IMO

Based on what I saw all game long if we had gotten close a holding call would have been made, the fix was on.

I saw things in this game I never thought I would see. Angry about having to play the other team and the ref's too.

The hold on Tretter (when he was being shoved in the face) was abhorrent. Such a drive killer and phantom call

That's because Stefanski refuses to just go all pass and put it in Baker's hands in shotgun, 2 min type drill. He just refuses, no matter what's on the game clock.

That's either a Stefanski issue or a Baker issue. It's probably some combination of the two.

At some point you are going to have to let Baker pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. And I'm not talking about screens. Shotgun, 2 min offense, lead us down the field.

Our clock management has been awful all season at the end of games/halfs. It's because Stefanski tries to run his offense no matter game clock.

Sink or swim with Baker.

The Browns are a very well coached team they rarely make holding penalties to start with all of a sudden we are collecting them like that is all we do.

Every time it seemed we were ready to put the Bolts away here comes another phantom call. I had a weird sense something was up from the very start of this game. Never felt nerves all afternoon and I always do. I felt we had this game in hand all day even towards the end and in spite of the poor refs I thought we would win anyway. But in the end the Bolts along with some creative ref work was to much for us.

This one leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I hope it does the Browns as well. Maybe we just blew it and the refs were helping, yah that's what it was.

Garrett was held the entire game. I'm not sure he got one whistle.

My biggest thing with refs is they shouldn't impact the result of the game. What I mean by that is the 4th down DPI was not egregious enough to call (it wasn't a penalty at all), but if it is not crystal clear, you do not make that call. Because it impacts the result of the game.

If you are going to make that call, then you have to call pass interference on the hail mary at the end. Njoku was tackled. Now, typically I'm ok with not calling that. If you need a hail mary to win, you shouldn't get bailed out by that kind of call.

But the 4th down DPI was the same thing. If it's not crystal clear on game altering plays at critical times, you simply swallow the whistle. They blew the whistle on two guys both fighting their butts off to catch an uncatchable pass.

Made no sense.

If there is a positive from this, Baker's accuracy was much better. Maybe getting used to that injury/harness.

Stefanski has been coaching scared in crunch time. This goes back to punting back to the Chiefs in last year's playoff loss to them. Could have closed the game out with a first down.

Chose to put it in the hands of the defense that has proved incapable of stopping the offense when it mattered. Same story today.

Great at scheming, scripting plays. Clams up when game on the line and offense needs to be aggressive. Goes conservative and hopes defense bails out the team, which it's been unproven to do so. Same story on 4th downs.

To be clear....Stefanski is a great coach and will be here for a long time. Everyone can improve in their job.

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
I don’t mind the #Browns going for it on fourth down, but at some point they’re going to have to start converting more of them. Under Stefanski, Browns are 12-of-33 on 4th down dating back to last year, the 4th-worst conversion rate in the NFL. @ESPNStatsInfo

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1447307805283655683

Giving up a 4th down when the opponent goes for it on their own 20 and giving up another 4th down when it was 4th and 7, is inexcusable.

Wonder what next week's injury report will look like? 12-13 people?

Don't care about any of this. Keep going for it.

But I don't want the defense giving up 4th downs especially when the other team goes for it from their own 20 in the 3rd quarter.

And I want Stefanski to free Baker. Baker is completely neutered. We've lost the two most important games of the year doing it coach's way. It's not working.

The Browns have beat Davis Mills, Justin Fields, and Kirk Cousins. They've lost to Mahomes and Herbert down the stretch of both games.

Not a good start to a supposed Super Bowl season.

Both our coach and "franchise" QB have been average.

I care. Choking when it's on the line. It's notable.

Another game with a bunch of contributing factors to the loss. The 2 wide open TD throws that anybody with the physical ability to throw a football 40 yards could have completed. Crappy officiating, not just on the phantom PI call but the non-holding calls all game long. Defense giving up multiple other 4th down conversions and making them look relatively easy.

Our crunch time offense just isn't very good. And I'm not just talking about final 3 minute stuff. Even on 4th down, not very good. I don't know what it is, I can't explain it...

Its the playcalling. Going for 4th and 2 and we throw an incomplete pass instead of running it when they cant stop our run game. Thats like outsmarting yourself.

It's not even that we throw it, though I understand that running is our bread and butter. It's that we go no back so often, there is no play action, not even a threat of the run, no screen passes.. we go straight drop back most of the time, which is not our strength.

Solid officiating!...

Holding called on Browns JC Tretter...



Garrett and McKinley held, no call...

https://twitter.com/Rob_Shenanigans/status/1447338828138700804

AJ Green DPI...

Can't wait for the Browns to get the letter from the NFL office.. "Whoops, our bad."

This is really a sad game to consider, and there really is a part of the Browns that alarmingly goofed and, it was hidden, because so many things distracted us from it.

Andrew Sendejo, of the 2020 Browns never seemed to use the final official, or the open end zone, as the plan, to stop the deepest Wr.
But the 2021 Browns! Have done it;
Once against the Chiefs.
Once against the Texans.
(Once against the Bears, I think...
and twice against the Chargers today.

Andrew Sendejo!!!!! ("Cut Sendejo,")
Would stand there like a bump on a log!!!
There were replays, where it appeared, the ball would be snapped, and he would plant his feet!!!
And Never move!!! Until the whilstle was blown!!!

But EVEN HE! Never let the final WR get 25 yards away from the final Safety.
Even HE, never used the open end zone in back of him, like an extra defender, like the sideline is sometimes used.
EVEN HE, never appeared to think the Final Referee was somehow an extra Phantom Safety waiting in back of him to pick up pass coverage.

Cut Sendejo! and the Browns of week one of 2020!
Cut Sendejo! and the Browns of week Two of 2020!
Cut Sendejo! and the Sendejo Browns
WON! TWELVE------------! GAMES!!!

But they never, as a defense last year! Seemed to leave the final, deepest option,
HAVE SUCH A CUSHION!
Bracketed by two players, 6 yards on either side, with neither player in arms reach of making a play, 2, or 3 games ago.
And then, this game, with a 25 yard cushion, after the final safety broke off, and just let him go.

Now! Ordinarilly! A Browns team like that, loses, 38-6 ish, and the other team could have scored 60, but in those cases, the Colts or such, would let off the gas.

HOW MANY TIMES IN THE 12+ LOSS YEARS!
DIE THEY GIVE UP 25 POINTS! IN ONE FINAL FOURTH QUARTER???

Kareem Hunt! Nick Chubb! Rashard Higgins! OBJ, DPJ,
Myles Garrett, The rest of the Defensive line,
Baker, Njoku!!!

The Browns scored 42 points, with an offense that had one bad drive,... The players deserver better.

They deserve a pass defense that doesn't seem to use the philosophy of just give up the touchdown.

SCREWY !!

Kyler Murray and the Cardinals.
flushin Twice against the Bengals,
Sure The Ravens, won't know how to exploit that
Cut Sendejo! Cut Sendejo! I remembered, they were winning, won 12 games with him, careful it doesn't end up worse!

Well it's worse, it's worse than Sendejo! Analyze that! Analytics folks, today.

THE KICKER! DID NOT MISS 4 KICKS TODAY! But the final WR! Was given a TWENTY FIVE YARD CUSHION!

When the Browns, Rushed for about a MILLION RUSHING YARDS!
AND THE TIGHT END HAS A 70 YARD BREAK AWAY TOUCHDOWN,

Most NFL teams could find a way to win. It's not Fair, to Kareem Hunt. It's not Fair, to Nick Chubb.
It's not even Fair to the backup offensive linemen, who, somehow, were adequate.

And don't tell me about the injuries to the Corner backs at the time. Because Guess What!

The Biggest Gaffs in the Deepest pass coverage appearences plays, Were with the Healthy guys in there, not with the Hurt guys on the sidelines.

Kyler Murray Next week!!

1-800-S.E.N.D.E.J.O. He's on another team it's too late now, play it safe! safe OhNo!

Actually, the Pass defense, Who knows, they are facing a whole other team and coaching staff and they sometimes make caring professionals look like keystone cops and maybe there is more to it (But this is a 3 game set of obviously blown plays like this.)

I wonder if Plain Dealer lady can finaly stop talking about with assumption that this team would meet the Chiefs in the conference championship game.

My postgame thoughts: Long version

I like Kevin Stefanski. He's not perfect but the dude is a helluva coach. We're lucky to have him and hope he sticks around a long time. He solves one half of the "Coach and a QB" combo. Play calling at the end today was a hot mess and he basically admitted as much, but he was dealing with an injured QB, 2nd string tackles and no WRs. I said before the game his play calling would be limited and it showed right there.

The Browns are a good team. We can hang with the Chiefs and the Chargers on the road. We can even win a game against a good team when we don't bring our A game (Vikings). But what we AREN'T is a great team. Great teams find ways to win these kind of games. We aren't there yet and IMO it's our QB and our defense that are keeping us from there.

Baker Mayfield is a good QB. He's a tough SOB. He plays hard. Good teammate. Good work ethic. He'll win you games (and has). He's the best QB we've had since our return. What's he's NOT is a franchise QB worth the farm in $$$. I guess that depends on what your definition of "franchise" is, but to me it's a guy who can put a team on his back, even when lacking talent around him, even when the chips are down, and will his team to wins they had no business getting. Without counting, my guess is there's only 10-12 "franchise" QBs in the NFL in any given year based on that definition. Baker isn't one of em. Call me when he puts us on his back and wins a big time game at the end with his brain and arm (and no beating the freaking Bengals last year doesn't count in my book). I'd resign him at a reasonable rate next year. He's going to want more than that. I'd let him walk. Kirk Cousins (or someone like him in that salary range) will do just as good as Baker with the running game we've got.

Our OLine is really good. Even with backups at tackle, they held their own against Bosa and a decent Chargers front. Their ability to both create holes for our RB and give Baker decent time is a thing of beauty to watch. We're lucky.

Our RB tandem is the best in the NFL and might be the best 1-2 combo I've seen in...I don't know how long. Chubb and Hunt are straight beasts.

Our TE group is underappreciated. The trio of Hooper, Njoku and Bryant may not get many pro bowls - but they all do things well. They can catch. They're REALLY good blockers. They can line up in multiple sets and disguise what we're doing on offense. They're a big part of what we do well.

Our WR group is Jarvis Landry and a bunch of JAGs. Yes that includes OBJ. Landry is the heart and soul of our offense. Does all the little things. Makes the big catches. We REALLY miss him. Higgins and DPJ are perfectly acceptable #3 and #4 options. Schwartz can run really fast and...well...did I mention he's fast? He's a rookie so I'll give him time but color me unimpressed with his effort, his route running, his hands, his awareness, his attention to detail. As for OBJ? If we had Landry I'd trade him for a ham sandwich tomorrow. We don't, so we won't, but his impact is nil (or negative) and we have 2 seasons of stats to back it up.

Our defense is...confusing. Myles Garrett is a beast. Clowney has shown up opposite him. Our DLine in general has been really good at both the run and the pass. JOK is going to be a stud at LB. I like the leadership Walker and Malcolm Smith bring. Sure would be nice if they were better players though. Rest of our LB are terrible. Our secondary has been sooooo inconsistent. Newsome, Ward, Greedy and Hill have all flashed at times and been beaten like a dog at times. Our safeties? Harrison (when he's not hurt or ejected) and Johnson have been HUGE disappointments. Delpit has been the best safety IMO but he's also gotten burnt bigly multiple times. So much talent and yet just wildly inconsistent results. This group gets a C-, would have been a C given the wild swings between A and F, other than I expected more from them.

We are beat up badly. Playing 2nd string OLine and 3rd string CB today showed. Great teams find ways to overcome. We aren't and we didn't.

I'll add - last week was encouraging in that we found a way to win without having to play our best. Reason: The defense was lights out.
This week we played really well on O but were too banged up and lost a game we should have won. Reason: The defense was terrible. Notice a theme?

Defense still wins championships because it travels and it keeps you in games. If we ever figure out how to put a consistent D together with our running game, then even an average Baker (or other QB) can take this team to the Super Bowl.

We've got 5-0 Arizona next week and with all our injuries I don't see a win. That's what made today's ending that much worse. Not only did we grab defeat from the jaws of victory - but with the combo of injuries and the Cards coming next - we basically lost two games today. That will put us at 3-3 going into a short week against the Broncos.

I still think we ultimately make the playoffs, and see us ending either 9-8 or 10-7. But we could very realistically be 3-4 after this stretch.

Good point about our current health. Sadly, we now have two games in a week and will most likely be without some (if not all) of: Clowney, Ward, JOK, Conklin, and Wills. Not to mention other guys who were in and out of the game yesterday.

Given the current landscape of the AFC, our two losses to KC and LA are pretty major unfortunately.

Why is anyone putting blame on the offence? We scored 42 points, plus 13 minutes time-of-possession, more total yards of offence, on-n-on. It is quite apparent where the problem is: injuries and defensive scheme. Is Woods asleep out there?

You should have heard me in my living room when this was going on, Ski is right he needs to do better. The Browns IMO should never go empty backfield, never, ever, ever.

You are no Sean Salisbury.

He knows what he is talking about. He played the position and a lifetime studying it.

Myles got held so many times.

McDowell was held.

This was the worst called game I have seen.

The play on Green look at where the official was.

He was looking right at the play. How could he miss that?


In addition how can guys be that open so many times? Herbert is a fine young qb. However, I might have made those throws. This is the NFL. You can not be 15 yards in the clear.

Fourth down conversions. What were we doing on defense?

What he is trying to do here is remind everyone that he didn't want Baker and to let everyone know how smart he was for NOT wanting him.

That said he doesn't strike me as being smart (Rish) no matter how many times he tries.

I realize that Baker isn't perhaps ideal then again I don't think anyone is not named Tom Brady, and I suppose Rish if he had decided that we shouldn't have drafted Brady to start with would remind everyone that he didn't want Brady every time the team lost.

He has gone out of his way to inform all who will listen to his stupidity (and it is) that Baker hasn't shown he can carry the team.

Last season when we pulled out a last second win from Cincy someone else threw that ball to DPJ.

Then again it was Bakers fault we lost to the Raven's after he led the team down the field with less them 2 minutes remaining and scored in less the 50 seconds.

After a while it just becomes sickening that every time we lose a game it's Bakers fault no matter if it isn't. We lost yesterday because we had and have a boat load of injuries and due in no small part to repeated bad calls from the officials, that is why we lost. But not according to Rish it all falls on Baker.

I never cared to much for Rish he is one of those guys who shows up every time he can to put down a damned good team because he hates the QB, after a while you want to scream shut the hell up, your bias is sickening and really wrong on a lot of levels.

He is our QB get the hell over it..............

His take away from that game is bad coaching and Bakers fault.

Herbert was throwing to guys who were open by fifteen yards. And he is now a legend.

We give up 4 TD's in the fourth quarter.

Baker lost the game.

I was critical last week of Baker. He was critical of himself.

This game we scored 42 points. We have great runners. Baker does not call the plays.

Both starting tackles were out of the game.

His comment Baker is average.

Like that is the "all reason."

At this point riz has zero credibility. His agenda posting is so ridiculously obvious.

Neither. It was an O-line issue.

i guess i didnt notice the O line play as anything but positive, seeing as how even with two backup OTs, they were dominating the LoS, and chubb/hunt was just doing whatever they wanted when they wanted.

and i really don't understand the baker hate. dude was wheeling and dealing the entire game. defensive injuries all over the place is the only reason this was a shootout. and it could've very well been a blowout if it wasn't for the refs.

guys, we just need to get healthy. get our OTs and jarvis back, get Clowney and ward back, and we're good to go.

this was easily the game of the week. a true battle of SB contenders.

JC...

-Ronnie Harrison plays so erratic, you see why even the lowly Jags gave up on him...He seemed to be playing better last year, when not injured.

-JJ3...While playing at a very high level with the Rams he was the coverage safety (FS) and would slide over and play nickel corner as well. I know Woods claims our S's are interchangeable...But playing JJ3 out of position while handing out all that money, is questionable at best.

-Grant Delpit was flashing in prior weeks, but seemed lost often this week...He was late often to reads and reaction

-How does the D, leave one of the better WR tandems so wide open? Anthony Walker and JJ3 were known and touted for their strong abilities to read plays and to call the defensive adjustments or slides...Yet we are having more blown calls than even the year prior, despite being more talented at every level.

-JOK was the only LB I saw making plays, and he was playing hurt as well...

-McDowell is such a monster at times, def. flashes a lot and creates havoc inside...Malik Jackson is a good steady veteran, I saw him way out of the box a few times trying to hustle all out and make plays on Austin Ekeler.

-Obtaining injury prone players, really stings for this franchise (Ward, Greedy, Newsome, Delpit, Clowney, Harrison, OBJ)


I won't harp on the O...as they finally put up 42 points like we expected this offense to shine...Some oddities include spending all that money on OBJ and Hooper, and having so little to show forth. Njoku exploded, kudos to him...Do we trade him this year, and sell when he's hot? Or do we let him walk after this year...a lot of interesting factors to look into at the end of this year.

-This schedule looks rough this year, Arizona and all those WRS look scary (Hopkins, Kirk, AJ Green, Rondale Moore, heck even Isabella could damage us lol)

-Wonder what our injury report will look like...Good news, is we should have Landry and Newsome back possibly this week (god I hope so)

Just on this one topic and phrase - if he's said those exact words once, he's said those exact words 40 times in different posts since the start of the season. It's a deliberate and provocative repetition in my estimation. And just like some of the talking heads who have a massive bias - any discussion is superficially dressed up to try to look fair and balanced but it is only ever actually done from a negative and predetermined angle. Everyone is entitled to whatever opinion they want to share - this one seems carefully scripted and with only one goal. And apparently to address that and express your own opinion is to get labelled "emotional" ! LOL.

Baker certainly did enough to win the game yesterday. The whole of the offense did. On top of all the things you mentioned - Stefanski definitely choked and went into a conservative shell at the end of the game and played not to lose instead of stepping on their throats. *Apparently Stefanski's conservative play calling is also Baker's fault too, in case you missed it. Someone claims to know that KS doesn't trust Baker. . . .
*Edit - to add to a comment by another poster who I agree with - when they missed the extra point and gave us the 1 point lead it felt at the time like it was going to make us go conservative and give them the chance to win. It hurt instead of helped us.

We need to get healthy and stay healthy - we need improvement in lots of places including KS finishing some of these games off and no getting so predictable on play calling. There is time and I believe there is the ability to self correct and improve throughout the entire team.

j/c


I'm actually going to agree with Rish on a few points.

I can see 100% that the Browns are teaching the gunslinger out of Baker. True or not, I dunno. I believe that they are trying to coach that offensive turnovers are inherently bad. Now, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing.

But you look at his throws, he says the shoulder injury doesn't affect accuracy. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. He's putting the ball in locations where the defense has NO chance to intercept the pass. The overthrows. The defense can't get there. Only our guy would have a chance. The ball to Schwartz yesterday was upsetting. Schwartz slowed up to find the ball. Had he kept running, that was the perfect pass and a should be completion.

I do think at some point we will unleash the beast. Looking at last year when Baker was "bad" the first 7 games he threw 15 TDs, and 7 INT. The final 9 games he threw 11 TDs and only 1 INT. Yes there was some bad weather. And I'm not trying to fuel Rish's absurd "Baker isn't the guy" take, but keep in mind Tom Brady never threw for more than 28 TDs and had double digit interceptions his first 6 years as a starter. Brees never threw more than 28 TDs, either. Not saying Baker is either guy, just trying to gain a perspective.

The notion that "Baker won't be here next year" is absolutely ludicrous. He's doing exactly what is asked of him. He can and has won games and carried the team on his back. To say he hasn't simply isn't true.

Baker will 100% be here next year. And he'll probably have a new contract.

We do seem to have an issue of when we go up somewhat big, we let the other team back in.

We were up 22-10 vs the Chiefs. Lost.
We were up 27-13 vs the Chargers. Lost.

Last year we were up 38-7 vs the Titans, but won 41-35.
Last year we were up 35-7 vs the Steelers in the playoffs, we won 48-37.

But Baker CAN carry a team. Last year vs the Ravens we were down 34-20 heading into the 4th quarter. We tied the game at 42 late only to lose on a Tucker 55 yd FG (and eventual safety).

If Higgins would have gotten that ball near the 30 at the sideline on the 3rd from final play. What would have been the next plays with near 14 seconds to go.

IIRC, he had 2 strikes for long scores (1 for sure to Njoku). People are also conveniently leaving out that we are down to our #4 and #5 OTs... so we want to dial up longer-developing plays when we have those guys blocking Bosa et al?

For what is it worth our pass protection yesterday was fantastic. Three pressures allowed and zero sacks.


https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-5-game-recap-los-angeles-chargers-47-cleveland-browns-42

As DC. mentioned " the empty backfield " is madding ! .. I go off the rails every time I see it... I'm not sure what the roll of our wide receivers play ? Baker is deadly when running a designed roll out pass play ; Hardly ever see it anymore ? We still scored 42 Points ..

Have not , nor am I now a fan of Woods .. Not very creative , refuses to blitz . You were not getting pressure with an less than healthy front four .. The scheme is designed not to give up the BIG play : Yet game after game we give up the big play + .. 17 game season , your going to have injury's and weather to deal with .. You have to be able to improvise ..

The ref. issue is just a sad state of affairs ! Bottom line is , you don't win many games giving up 47 points .. Reasons for a painful loss ' #1 Woods D , # 2 the Refs , #3 some questionable calling by Ski .. Just my Opinion .

My take

I think we all know another poster who used this EXACT same tactic, and stopped posting a year ago. Although I strongly expect he's still at it using other "socks" to this day.

One message that flashed up on the screen at the end of the game is that the D couldn't come up with a stop in any of the Chargers final 4 (FOUR) drives (not including kneeldown).

And we have a group of people that want to talk about the QB not being clutch. Defense needed to come up with 1 stop, and couldn't. Now I get that had the game gone on a little longer we might not have enough defenders out there to field a full D, but we also had our heady veterans gifting 2 long TDs on hilariously busted coverages.

Side note: Baker's stats at one point in the 3rd were better than Herbert's, but guess who was getting all the love? Take out the gift TDs, and... still probably wouldn't have made a difference. I wish I could bag on the talking heads, but we have "fans" on here with the same Cowherd-level hottakes.

It may feel like the sky is falling... I know I'm still a little angry... but it was one game where we had a lot going against us. Bad reffing is bad, but honestly those 2 worst calls (the DPI and the Tretter holds, while bad, weren't the worst bad calls I've seen).
I also wanted to bag on KS (maybe I will a little bit). I hated the 3 hail mary's, but we kinda botched the leadup to those 3 throws. I hated the 3rd down run, but Hunt made magic out of a similar play the week before. We were forced to put our #4 and #5 tackles out there. All of our starting corners except for Hill (the guy with a penchant for backbreaking penalties at the worst time) were injured.


I think what I'm most frustrated about is that many of the things we were worried about (Clowney and Ward injuries, bad reffing at the worst times, defensive brain farts leading to TDs, and an offense that seems to lose its magic at the end of games.

I'd also like to see our punt returners dance a lot less. I'd LOVE to see evidence of OBJ and him being open "all game". All I saw from him was one good catch and a HORRIBLE drop. FWIW, I still support him, and he's had a lot working against him during his time here... but the time is now to start showing something. Baker had no problem airing it out to Schwartz near the end, and he seemed to be connecting fine with Higgins for whatever was needed. Plus he had that ballsy shuffle pass to Hooper for the TD. I thought he made plenty of gutsy throws considering we were going against a team with a + pass rush with a REAL banged up line and QB.

I think we schemed with those 2 in mind. Take a look at this board right now, and tell me what you think it would look like if we got Baker crushed on a long-developing play behind backups-to-the-backups.

MY analytics say it's time for AVP to call the plays.

Good post.

What matters to the Browns is what Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski believe.

A decision is coming at he end of this year. Either give Baker an extention. Franchise him. Or, go in another direction.

IMO the Browns organization, the coaches and players back Baker.

This season is still going to play out. What happens will obviously impact their thinking.

The Board can all have their opinions. We are all fans.

The mamangement of the Browns sees more. Knows more. And has all the data to back up their decision.

I have my own take. Others have theirs.

None of us makes decisions.

They did the refs took it away.

Yesterdays game really bothers me for all the reasons that have been posted here. If you look at TOP and 230 yards rushing its inconceivable we lost this game. I didn't watch it but from what I've read the ref's really screwed us. I make jokes but I'm as hurt as anyone about how these games play out. We can make up for yesterday with a win next week against Arizona. We need a win after yesterday and one over a 5-0 Arizona team is just the thing.

j/c...

Camryn Justice
@camijustice
#Browns LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, who was taken to a hospital for evaluation after the game with a throat contusion, was released last night and cleared to travel back to Cleveland this morning.

https://twitter.com/camijustice/status/1447553065335328773

I like to look at it like fantasy football. We scored 42 points. We would have beat every team in the NFL with 42 points except 3. We were just unlucky to have played one of them yesterday. If the schedule was different we could have beat 28 teams.

Browns’ defensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 5

The defense couldn’t contain Justin Herbert, with the safeties blowing too many coverages.

By Chris Pokorny

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/10/11...nd-notes-week-5


Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on defense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 5 game against the Los Angeles Chargers.

Defensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
DL Myles Garrett 60 80% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 sack, 1 TFL, 3 QH, 1 pass defended.
DL Malik Jackson 54 72% 1 assist (1 combined). 1 QH.
DL Malik McDowell 50 67% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 sack, 1 TFL, 1 QH, 1 FR.
DL Takk McKinley 43 57% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 QH.
DL Joe Jackson 34 45% 2 tackles (2 combined).
DL Jordan Elliott 24 32% 1 assist (1 combined).
DL Andrew Billings 21 28% 1 assist (1 combined).
DL Ifeadi Odenigbo 16 21% 1 QH.

Myles Garrett was banged up a bit heading into this game, but finished with six pressures, a sack, and the team’s highest pass-rushing grade from PFF (80.5). He also defended one pass. On a two-point conversion, he got tripped up and fell down, allowing a quick connection to the tight end for the conversion.
Malik McDowell registered a sack and a fumble recovery.
With Jadeveon Clowney out, a mix of Takk McKinley and Joe Jackson took most of his replacement reps.
Andrew Billings saw a bit of an increased workload this week, perhaps due to McDowell coming in and out of the game to injury.

Linebacker
Pos Player Plays % Stats
LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah 68 91% 3 tackles, 1 assist (4 combined). 1 FF.
LB Anthony Walker 55 73% 2 tackles, 4 assists (6 combined).
LB Sione Takitaki 17 23% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined). 1 QH.
LB Mack Wilson 5 7% No stats registered.
LB Malcolm Smith 3 4% 1 tackle (1 combined).

I wonder if anyone else realized, just from watching the game, that Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah played in 91% of the snaps? That’s a career high for him, although he was taken to the hospital after the game with a throat contusion. This poor guy and his unconventional injuries (remember he had a weight fall on his head in training camp).
PFF says that JOK “played 39 coverage snaps and allowed two receptions for 12 yards, but neither reception led to a first down or touchdown.”
Anthony Walker returned from IR and immediately became a starter again, taking almost all of Malcolm Smith’s reps away. It was kind of frustrating to see that, because Smith seemed to be playing well and in a groove over these past two games, while Walker has seemed very blah in his two outings.

Cornerback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
CB A.J. Green 69 92% 4 tackles, 1 assist (5 combined). 2 passes defended.
CB Greedy Williams 61 83% 7 tackles, 3 assists (10 combined). 1 pass defended, 1 FF.
CB Troy Hill 55 73% 4 tackles, 1 assist (5 combined). 1 TFL.
CB Denzel Ward 9 12% 1 tackle (1 combined).

What a mess the cornerback situation was, due to injury. Greg Newsome was already out, and then Greedy Williams got dinged up early on. Williams returned, but then Denzel Ward left with his nagging neck injury and did not return. By the end of the game, the word was that Williams, Troy Hill, and M.J. Stewart (listed at safety) were also hurt.
Williams impressed me for the second week in a row. He was the team’s leading tackler, an aspect that is nice to see. He also forced a fumble. Per PFF, Williams “received the highest coverage grade at 82.4 despite allowing seven receptions for 43 yards.”
PFF chalked A.J. Green up to allowing 4 catches for 111 yards and 1 touchdown. I don’t know if they’re counting that first long blown coverage play on him, but I thought that mistake was on safety Grant Delpit, not Green. It sounds silly to say cornerbacks played well when your team allows 47 points, but I also thought Green did a solid job on the day.

Safety
Pos Player Plays % Stats
S John Johnson 75 100% 4 tackles (4 combined).
S Ronnie Harrison 75 100% 2 assists (2 combined). 1 pass defended.
S Grant Delpit 23 31% No stats registered.
S M.J. Stewart 7 9% No stats registered.

The safety play was disastrous this week. They are supposed to be preventing teams from going over the top, and yet they allowed two wide open touchdown passes to Mike Williams off of blown coverages. The first one appeared to be on Grant Delpit, with the second one on Ronnie Harrison, and then John Johnson III being frustrated both times that his counterparts left their responsibility.
Speaking of Johnson, though, he had yet another very underwhelming performance. Defensive coordinator Joe Woods needs to figure something out to get Johnson more in sync to have an impact defensively.

Browns’ offensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 5

Cleveland makes history on offense in a losing effort.

By Chris Pokorny


https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/10/11...nd-notes-week-5


Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on offense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 5 game against the Los Angeles Chargers.

Quarterback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
QB Baker Mayfield 72 100% 23-of-32 (71.8%) for 305 yards, 2 TD. 2 rushes, 8 yards.

Baker Mayfield was much better this week with his performance, completing 71.8% of his passes, and that percentage would’ve been closer to 90% if it weren’t for the last drive where he clocked the ball and was throwing up long/Hail Mary passes.
A lot of the passes were short-range passes with receivers gaining yards after the catch. But Mayfield also completed downfield passes well too, and his decision-making remained on-point. With the help of the running game, Mayfield helped lead a scoring drive on nearly every drive that he possibly could. On the ones where he didn’t, what else could he do? The first one that comes to mind is the turnover on downs, a pass that he put on the money to Odell Beckham but was dropped. In the second half, two drives stalled back-to-back because of holding penalties that certainly can’t be put on Mayfield.

Running Back
Pos Player Plays % Stats
RB Nick Chubb 40 56% 21 carries, 161 yards (7.7 YPC), 1 TD. 1 catch, 9 yards (1 target).
RB Kareem Hunt 32 44% 12 carries, 61 yards (5.1 YPC), 2 TD. 5 catches, 28 yards (6 targets).
RB Andy Janovich 6 8% No stats registered.

Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt were outstanding, combining for over 200 yards rushing. It’s a damn shame to see a team run the ball as well as Cleveland did and not have a victory to show for it.
Per PFF, about 144 of Chubb’s 161 rushing yards came after contact. Chubb and Hunt combined to force 12 missed tackles.

Wide Receiver
Pos Player Plays % Stats
WR Odell Beckham 58 81% 2 catches, 20 yards (3 targets).
WR Donovan Peoples-Jones 49 68% 5 catches, 70 yards (6 targets).
WR Rashard Higgins 34 47% 3 catches, 29 yards (5 targets).
WR Anthony Schwartz 9 12% 0 catches (1 target).
WR Demtric Felton 3 4% No stats registered.

Odell Beckham saw the most reps at receiver, but was virtually a non-factor on the stat sheet on Cleveland’s explosive day of offense. Granted, I’m sure he drew some coverages — Rashard Higgins was wide open on his touchdown grab because two defenders shadowed Beckham — but that key fourth down drop in the first half looms large. It reminded me of when he dropped a fourth down pass against the Ravens in last year’s opener.
Donovan Peoples-Jones had his most active day of the season, catching 5 passes for 70 yards.
Anthony Schwartz had a shot at a long pass down the right sideline. Mayfield appeared to put the ball right on the money in stride, but Schwartz slowed up a tad as he was more busy trying to hand-fight with the trailing defensive back.
Demetric Felton played 3 snaps and was not targeted.

Tight End
Pos Player Plays % Stats
TE Austin Hooper 52 72% 1 2-point conversion.
TE David Njoku 46 64% 7 catches, 149 yards (7 targets), 1 TD.
TE Harrison Bryant 31 43% No stats registered.

Austin Hooper did not see a target during regular action, but caught a shuffle pass over the middle for a two-point conversion.
David Njoku had a breakout and career day, catching 7 passes for 149 yards and 1 touchdown, including a 71-yard catch-and-run. Njoku has been great for over a year now, and I’d love to see the Browns utilize the mismatches with him more often.
Harrison Bryant was flagged for one of the drive-killing holding penalties.

Offensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
OL Blake Hance 72 100%
OL Joel Bitonio 72 100%
OL JC Tretter 72 100%
OL Wyatt Teller 72 100%
OL Jack Conklin 51 71%
OL James Hudson 21 29%

Blake Hance made his first career start and did a very admirable job, especially considering he was going up against Joey Bosa.
Per PFF, “the Browns’ offensive line played their best game in pass protection, as they combined to allow just three pressures and no sacks.”
PFF awarded the best pass-rushing grades of the game to RT Jack Conklin and RG Wyatt Teller. LG Joel Bitonio earned the best run-blocking grade in his 100th career start. It was also C JC Tretter’s 100th career game.
James Hudson came in relief for Conklin at right tackle, who left with a knee injury. Fingers crossed that Conklin’s injury isn’t too serious.

This is just a thought...in the early times of OBJ being in Cleveland there was a fair amount of smoke about his penchant for "freelancing" routes.

If that is the case yet today and with OBJ's ability to drop simple passes...one might understand why a QB would chose to look at other options.

Generally I agree with you but the injuries to the secondary is becoming a problem. We battled them all year last year and it has started again this year. We can't expect to remain competitive with 3 or 4 starting DBs out on a rotating basis. No team is deep enough to be able to do that.

I think it's ironic that we have a contingent that says our offense doesn't look as good with OBJ because Baker focuses on him too much... and another that says he's open all the time and Baker won't throw him the ball.... somebody is wrong. Or maybe both are wrong, since Baker had a really good day yesterday, the offense was clicking, and we put up 42 points with OBJ on the field.

The Chargers entered the game with the #1 pass defense in the league, and a sieve against the run. We ran beautifully, and we passed more than effectively. Unfortunately, they got the won.

Mayfield, and the offense, played well enough to get the win. They put up 42 points, and that should be enough. Unfortunately, the defense had a rash of injuries, and some seriously horrible miscommunications on 2 broken plays that turned into Chargers TDs. (and 47 points) It could have been worse, if the Chargers hadn't missed a gimme FG, and 2 (IIRC) XP.

Tough game on the West Coast. Hopefully the Browns and their coaches learn from it, and don't make the same mistakes again.

Just as the defense, rightly, received credit for the last 2 wins, they get the blame for this loss. You cannot give up 47 and expect to win many games. They can't blame it on the offense turning the ball over, because we won the turnover battle, 1-0. The offense didn't allow the Chargers to go 3-3 on 4th down, even deep in their own territory, and once on something like 4th and 9. The defense was hit with a bunch of injuries, but the miscommunication stuff is extremely worrisome. It has to stop. You cannot leave receivers so wide open that I might have been able to get them the ball.

Read a stat, and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, Baker Mayfield has lost 3 times when putting up 42+ points. No other QB in NFL history has had that happen more than once.

Ugh.

I still think they have time to get it together. I think Baker Mayfield, OBJ, and KS are all THE guys we need here to lock down the QB, #1 WR, and HC/shot-caller/scheme guy, respectively.

But I'm starting to question OBJ's future role in this offense. I know there's been a lot they've been working against to get in sync, but time is running out on that excuse.

Yesterday, Baker Mayfield lost his third career game in which his team scored 42 points or more.

No other QB in NFL history has more than one such loss in their career.

https://twitter.com/NickPedone12/status/1447530766213189641


In franchise history, the #Browns have only lost 4 times when scoring 40+ points.

1) @ Chargers 47-42 (2021)

2) vs Ravens 47-42 (2020)

3) @ Raiders 45-42 (2018)

4) @ Bengals 58-48 (2004)

https://twitter.com/CLE_STATS/status/1447591187586691074

https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1447592672819036163

Unless there is injury.

I do not see how Mack Wilson gets on the field.

For the few times he played yesterday. His reaction speed and tackling are horrible.

Troy Hill got used.

How the comminication on defense failed when depth was played is very alarming.

The drop off from last week to this game on defense is concerning.

Highest-graded #Browns in Week 5 (min. 25 snaps):

David Njoku, TE- 92.5
Wyatt Teller, OG- 88.8
Joel Bitonio, OG- 82.9
Myles Garrett, EDGE- 79
Greedy Williams, CB- 78.5

https://twitter.com/PFF_Browns/status/1447592614295969799

Maybe I'm nuts but I don't think there is all that much to "get together".. We are 3-2. Our 2 losses both came on the road against teams that are expected to be still standing late in the playoffs.. and we had both teams beat and outplayed them for the majority of the game.

The Chiefs game, the Chubb fumble, the Gillan drop, the Baker falling down gift INT.. you won't see 4 of those events the rest of the year and we had 3 in the same game.

This team just needs to learn how to close... and that's part of the learning process for Stefanski, Baker, Woods, the whole team really. Mistakes were made by all in both of our losses...

Cleveland -2.5 against Arizona.

Get in while you can. I'm guessing that line moves in Arizona's favor. And the line is 51. I'd take the over here as well.

" but the miscommunication stuff is extremely worrisome "

Point well made ! This has been a thorn in our side both last season and this one so far . I could say don't fix the blame ; fix the problem , But ..

How can we be favored against Arizona? Even if we are at home

I agree with the concern but those things are what happens when you run with young players and it's why so much value is placed on veterans. In spite of what is being said, Delpit blew his assignment 2 times and it cost us dearly.

As you also know the criticism early on of Woods was he wasn't turning this defense loose and now we all should know why he had it dummied down. But I bet most don't and won't understand what I just said, much less understand even now why he ran it the way he did.

Really it wasnt the D losing or the team losing it was Baker?

I think you mean Harrison. Delpit was used sparingly in the slot, not as a split safety.

Not unless Harrison was able to swap uniforms to 22... But I believe I am right on this I will watch again but I believe it was 22 Delpit both times.............. For sure the 1st time and I honestly thought the second time as well. The 2nd was the worst because it already happened once..........

Oh I think you believe whoever covered him off the line was responsible Delpitt had deep safety duties and in this case was suppose to make sure nobody got behind him. The cover guy I am not even sure of passed them off to Delpit and we know the result.

Tough loss... more accurately described as "good old Browns - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

First things first, the NFL really needs to do something to mitigate the effect of PI on it's game. That call was, in a word, egregious. At best (if the NFL can ever streamline the process) ALL PI calls should be reviewed. At least, all 4th quarter call reviews should be mandatory. We've entered an era where too many games are ruined by bad calls. An era where teams just heave the ball in the air hoping for a call, and era where part of a WRs repertoire is initiating contact to encourage these calls. It is flat-out ruining the game.

Baker Mayfield again shoulders (no pun intended) blame for the loss because he didn't "win" the game at the end. A game in which his defense gives up 26 points in the 4th quarter. Such is life for an NFL QB, I guess.

Mayfield looked much better this game but still couldn't get it done at crunch-time. Just as much blame goes to the coach and play-calling in my book.

To sum up the last two possessions: Coach- you don't run the ball on 3rd and 9 because you're worried about protection. That's fine late in the 2nd quarter, it's ridiculous at the end of a game when your defense has no hope of stopping the opposing offense. QB- winning in the NFL requires taking chances. With 1:30 and no TO's you have to go down field. Whether a result of play-calling or coverage, 3 yard dump passes are stupid. You would be better off firing the ball into the feet of the receiver.

"Taking bullets away from a gunslinger" is about the most perfect description as I have seen for Mayfield's play this year. I'm sure both parties (coach and QB) are at fault, but it has to change. We've gone from a QB with no fear of winging it anywhere on the field at any time, to someone that seems too scared of a mistake to play the position effectively. There is a happy medium, it will produce more INTs but it will also add a dimension to a high-powered offense that will leave a defense playing on it's heels for most of the game. It has to change... now.

Hopefully Landry makes his return next week. This offense is not the same without him. Baker/OBJ are subjects of some strange rift in the universe. For whatever reason, the gods are unhappy and I'm almost convinced that the situation will never correct itself. Anthony Schwartz is anything but an NFL WR. Not sure I've ever watched someone with world-class speed, his man beaten, slow down... to then watch the ball go over his out-stretched hands.

Stefanski has been a bit of a dichotomy so far this season. How can a coach be so bold as to go for it on nearly every 4th down yet so conservative in his play-calling at the worst possible times? Sometimes it seems like the proverbial "outsmarting himself" as play calls seem to be based entirely on what the defense should least-expect.

On to the next... two games in ten days with a banged up defense. These two games may spell the difference between a great season and screams from the aisles of "same old Browns!".

What does this mean?

Baker isn't good enough to win a high scoring game?

Baker plays with bad defenses?

Or it's a coincidence and Baker is just getting very very unlucky?

. " . But I bet most don't and won't understand what I just said, much less understand even now why he ran it the way he did."

Normally wouldn't respond to a post like this ; But I'm really tired of your insulting posters or fans who have different opinion than yours .. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I have to wonder if the entire "taking bullets away from a gunslinger" has something to do with the shoulder injury. I don't know that it does but one has to wonder.

Stefanski said he was worried about the tackle situation at the end of the game. My recollection was also that we were having far more success up until that point in getting the ball to playmakers and letting them go to work (ex. Njoku TD) vs hitting on a homerun pass.

I think it's the shoulder injury plus our banged up line. Spinning that into rish's "KS doesn't trust Mayfield because he isn't clutch" is being deliberately obtuse.

Njoku maybe had his best day as a Brown yesterday

Him and DPJ both had excellent games. I've also been really impressed with how Greedy has been filling in.

I don't agree with all you said but much of what you said I do.

The same old Browns statement is a by gone time the old Browns would have never been in the game to start with.

I do believe that Ski loses some good common sense when play calling. If there was anything the Bolts feared it was Chubb and Hunt when you go empty backfield well you remove that fear.

I am a big believer in doing the unexpected with acceptation that being when you can close out a game, there you must be bold and you MUST be aggressive with a tinge of good common sense.

I would do a few things different I would never run a play without Chubb or Hunt in the backfield. That threat must always be there no matter down or distance. Hunt and Chubb can both catch the ball out of the backfield and if you want to play it safe dump the ball off to them most of the time they are uncovered anyway and I like their chances in the open field.

The second thing I would do is I would abandon Baker running the ball and I would never not move Baker around as much as possible he is deadly when on the move. The experiment of transforming Baker into a primarily pocket passer isn't working IMO and it takes away one of his best assets and it helps the O line with protection I believe. We saw how effective he was with simple roll outs.

I thought Nyjoku had a great game and has been underutilized for way to long. Teams don't expect us to use him and so far we truly don't disappoint. He must get more touches in this game we saw how effective he can be, use him for Gods sake use him. Want to go to a play to close a game look at David.

I will send over some tissues for you to wipe away your tears....

I guess there's a strong possibility that the shoulder plays a role, but the philosophy is not sustainable, especially if our defense is going to be inconsistent and plagued by injury. It's all well and good if an elite defense is going to hold your opponent to 24 and under every game.

I feel like the philosophy is the result of our greatest strength... our ground game, unfortunately we handcuff the possibility of being an elite offense by not even trying... almost as if we don't need to because of our ground game. Not going to win the "big boy" games in this league with your tail between you legs.

I just don't think that if his shoulder is seriously hampering him, those long passes where you have to put your body into them would be wise to call.

Maybe I'm missing something here. But our O put up 42 points,Baker passed for over 70% completion, over 300 passing yards and we had over 500 yards of offense.

I mean I get it. On that last drive maybe the play calling should have gone in a different direction on that final possession. I'll still never figure out how when you put up 42 points, win the TOP and have no turnovers, people try and put the loss on a single drive and the play calling.

There's no way you put up 42 points and should lose.

Probably because Ski has never lost two in a row.

Beating Arizona and Denver would take a lot of the sting out of yesterday’s game, but it won’t be easy.

We’ll have a lot at stake in the Baltimore-Baltimore-Cincinnati-Las Vegas stretch

With the amount of MRIs that need to get done today, we're going to put that stat to the test.

The injury might be a small part of it but I don't think it's the major reason. I think the major reason is the most obvious.. if we run the ball, control the clock and play just average defense we will win most games as long as we don't make mistakes. Mayfield has been so coached up in not making mistakes and letting the "process work" that when he needs to turn it on, it's tough. It's not just a switch to flip.

And for the record, I think Stefanski is having just as much trouble switching his coaching style from "the plan" to being more aggressive when the situation demands it.

j/c

I haven't read the thread, I'm giving my uninfluenced opinion after sleeping on yesterday's game.

It was entertaining. The result was in doubt to the final play. We lost, and that's a bummer, but we were in it to the end.

The defense was decimated!! Next man up, and all, but the stellar defensive lineup AB had built over the off-season was not available. And against one of the brightest young stars in the NFL, our 5th & 6th string CB and hobbled DL weren't up to the task.

I know the critics will decry that Baker could have put the team on his back and carried them to victory...the mark of a franchise QB. But I think about those 2 decades of wandering the QB desert, searching for a savior to take us to the promised land. Baker, with all his warts, is the best QB we've had in Cleveland since Bernie.

It was a tough loss. But it was one where we would have been blown out by halftime 2 years ago, even this time last year. This team is a talented team. With our frontline defense, I think we would have won.

I agree 100%.

I think it's especially ludicrous to blame your QB in a game where your defense gives up 26 points in the 4th. Baker had a great game by most standards.

To be clear, I'm definitely not talking about a "bombs away" greatest show on turf type scheme, I'm talking about going downfield on a more consistent basis. Not 40 yards, 15 to 20 yards. Last year we watched Baker climb to QB elite in terms of "20 air yards", yesterday he averaged 5 YARDS per pass completion. Huge difference between that and "those long passes".

I feel like our offense becomes too predictable when we are constantly in "play it safe" mode. I'm not trying to pin the loss on this, I'm saying that it seems like it's becoming a trend, and in my opinion, it's unsustainable if you want to compete with the elite.

Hopefully the return of Landry will help open things up again. He's our best WR, despite everybody always talking about the chemistry between Bake and Higgins, Landry is the WR baker trusts the most.

Not sure I would say it becomes too predictable... but when we get into must have drives and the defense starts loading the box even more than they already are, we struggle... and when we get into a must score quick situation, we look lost.

We have a run of difficult games coming up so it's not a good time to experiment, (especially considering that we are very good at what our identity says we are) but I would love to see us come out and go up tempo and aggressive with the downfield throws earlier in the game.

I would be curios to know what the analytics say on on the "play it safe" strategy?

I'm not quite sure how 23 completions for 305 yards comes out to five yards a pass but maybe you have an explanation for that?

He is talking about air yards. You have to take out yards after catch. Not sure if the 5 yards per throw is accurate.

The thing that continues to bother me is Stefanski passing on points early in the game. If he kicks the FG when OBJ dropped the pass on 4th and 2 then at the end of the game the Browns only need a FG to win the game instead of a touchdown. Not saying they could have gotten the yardage with that horrible play calling at the end but it's got to be easier.

Secondary looked clueless at times so they have to clean that up with the newer guys.

A tough loss when you score 42 on the road. Oh well - on to next week.

"Air yards"... the distance that the pass spent in the air. I mentioned air yards at the beginning of that sentence but wasn't specific when reciting the stat.

After taking another look at his post I see what you mean. Thanks.

It was from Jason Lloyd at The Athletic:

Thing is, Stefanski isn't a "play it safe" kind of guy. He has gone for it more on 4th down than any coach I can remember, even in questionable down and distance situations when the FG would have been fine and was right there for the taking..

to his credit, he has designed an offense that works fantastic for the personnel we have and is good enough to beat most teams.. but when we do find ourselves behind, it's like we can't just flip the switch into aggressive offense mode. The playcalling becomes questionable, the execution is questionable.. we look like Georgia Tech or Navy trying to conduct a pass-first 2 minute offense.. and it's ugly.

i agree, but the reason im hopeful is because its at least happening earlier in whats gonna be a long season. we got plenty of time to get healthy and gain the chemistry.

I don't think there is much for the players to get together... I only see two things:

1) Trying to stay healthy
2) Stefanski getting over whatever mental hurdle he's dealing with. Seems like he's over thinking things. The talent is there. No need to over think it.

By 'getting it together' I was specifically referring to the Baker-OBJ connection. It was supposed to be a match made in heaven (Baker having a strong arm and a good long ball, and OBJ being the big-play guy).

OBJ, 2 receptions 20 yards on 3 targets. Are they trying to keep him healthy to increase his trade value or something?

I recall OBJ and Manning not being on the same page toward his end in NY. Thats why they didnt mind letting him go.
They didnt know if it was Mannings fault or OBJs. sound familiar?

At crucial points in the game including 4th down. Criminal. Should be investigated

Ok, I see now. Thanks for the clarification. I just don't think we (and by "we" I mean Stefanski, are in a big hurry to make that happen)

Our entire WR group, for the season, is averaging
12 targets
7.6 catches
108.6 yards per game
1 TD catch (total for the season)

Those aren't as good as some of the top INDIVIDUALS who play WR in the NFL and that's our entire WR room combined.

Maybe it's Stefanski, maybe it's Baker, but connecting with our WRs isn't a priority.

Post game thought? That was probaly the worst I've felt after a loss since the 2002 playoff loss or before the move. But that's a good thing. It means we expect to win against the best teams and it hurts when we don't. I haven't been in that place in many years.

And maybe you're not saying this but How would this little statistic be Bakers fault?

Anyone who is saying this loss is on Baker is wrong. The offense did plenty to win. The defense blew several plays and we were playing a top two QB.

I see. Our defense allows WAAAAY too many points.

https://youtu.be/txmRs3QMYSE
Rich Eisen gets it!

So, maybe 42 actually ISN'T the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

It is and you take that back....

So long and thanks for all the fish

Yes he does mod, as do most others. What is stunning to me is those who see our qb throw for 300+ yards, 23-32, 2 td, 0 Int. and a qb rating of 122 and then proclaim him not our guy. Shows an amazing lack of awareness, whether by ignorance or bias, or maybe both. The few folks on here who say that will be saying he is not “our guy” while he is raising the Lombardi trophy.

I found baker’s wife comments to be interesting when she referred to his affect on our culture. After all the years of losing we were a pretty bedraggled organization. Started a new season with two losses after going 1-31. For 10 quarters our offense was moribund. Then tyrod got hurt. The minute baker came in the field you could feel a change in the stands and sense a change in the players. The culture of expecting to win every game is pervasive now amongst the fans and the team and baker started that.

Good things ahead anybody anybody who things baker is getting dumped for another qb I just plain wrong.

I have my towel.

Agreed and I'll put my 2 cents in about Baker. Right now Baker is not an elite QB in the league. I feel he is in the 2nd tier and a good-very good QB. Top tier IMO, Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Hebert, Russel Wilson Allen and there might be 1 or 2 others. Baker is the best QB we've had since Bernie and it's not close. Derek Anderson had 1 good year and maybe Vinnie Testaverde but that's it. Doesn't anybody remember the atrocious QB play we've had over the last 30 years and how long it took to find a QB like Baker? He's a little hurt right now and does need to be a little better but he can do it and I for one am glad he's here and hope he stays. JMO

Just because we had terrible QBs doesn’t mean Baker is immune to criticism.

All QB's get critiqued and Baker should be treated the same. I did say he needs to be a little better and he does but I believe he can be. He has the desire coaching and the weapons on this team to do so

cfrs15<---Baker Hater

42 is the problem.

I don't think I agree about Stefanski not being a "play it safe" kind of guy. Yes, on its face going for it on 4th down is always a risk, but we haven't been going for it so many times just because he wants to show who has the bigger set of cajones. These are calculated risks, with the data (presumably) showing the odds are in our favor.

I would point out that "play it safe" and being "conservative" are not necessarily one in the same.

I will validate your second observation though. Ski's offense not having another high octane gear is a criticism/concern that I had last year that carried in to this season. By keeping Njoku I took that as a sign that we were going to see this offense stretch its legs. Maybe that is the goal. Schwartz not fully running his routes doesn't help. This may be an unpopular opinion and I'm not trying to bag on the guy, but I don't think OBJ is the deep threat he once was. I think he's still a massive mid-range threat, but it seems like the ball has to be placed in an ever shrinking window when we try to push it down field with him.

I agree with you that I don't get why we run so many empty back fields. I also agree with what others have said in terms of the gun slinger being coached out of Baker. He knows this offense and I think his numbers show he has command of it. But he isn't playing loose. He plays like a guy who is staying within the confines of calculated risks.

Go back to the Chiefs game, specifically when Mahommes throws it up to Hill for the big TD. JJ3 had perfect coverage and if he would have looked for the ball 2 steps sooner, he would have INT'd it instead of over running it.

I'm not sure that Ski's offense allows for Baker to throw that ball. We know he can do it. We've seen that connection under previous offenses with Landry and certainly Perriman when he was here.

I don't know. I suppose the correct answer is its just a matter of matchups. I am curious as to why it seems like they've gone away from Baker takes the snap, drops back, plants his foot, throws the ball though.

Agreed - going for it on 4th down is analytics driven and nothing to do with how aggressive or otherwise plays at other points during the game.

Do you think the shot to OBJ to knockout the Vikings was aggressive or not?

Most reasonable fans don't have a problem with Baker getting fair and objective criticism when he deserves it.

I have a problem with the two extremes, the first being that we should just be happy that Baker is better than any QB we've had for 30 years. No, we should want to win a championship and the QB is a vital piece in that and Baker is the QB... can he lead a team to a championship?

The other extreme being that Baker should singlehandedly overcome all obstacles, that if our defense gives up 58 points, Baker should score 60 or he's not good enough. That it doesn't matter if our punter drops the ball, we have fumbles, defensive blown coverages, poor officiating, questionable play calling, that Baker should overcome all of that or he's not good enough.

Ravens D looked like crap. Indy gashed them all night via run and pass.
Browns O, if healthy, should ground and pound them into oblivion.

On D, Indy dominated them in the 1st half. Once they lost some of their secondary to injuries (Rhodes, etc.), their D was exposed. They went zone and soft due to that and it opened things up for Blomar and company the last 10 minutes of the game.

Why should any or this matter if you have the ball last and still control your own destiny whether you win or not?

I am convinced people do not watch other NFL games besides the Browns. I think the majority of this board looks at the Browns in a vacuum and has no idea how the NFL works.

After this loss, I think it's important to remember;

Don't panic.

You're superiority complex is showing.

I checked Arizona's D stats. We should be able to run on them the way we did the Chargers.

I’m worried about our defense stopping them. They’re dynamite like LA

Kyler Murray got a little banged up last week.

j/c...

Malcolm Smith wore the green dot previously after Anthony Walker went on IR.

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
Well, that solves it. Maybe this was already known. Not sure. But with the uncommon issues we saw in the back half with the communication I do have some questions. #Browns



https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1447939663319158800

John Johnson was the green dot for the Rams all of last season.

Correct.

We did score 42 points.

Overall I don't think play calling is the issue except possibly situational issues. Those can be corrected fairly easily.

Plus, hindsight always allows you to make a better call. I mean it's only a bad call if it doesn't work, but I don't disagree in spirit. I think Stefanski might be in a play calling rut and other teams have the tape.

You serious or is this sarcasm?

j/c...

Good breakdown from Jake Burns.

7 coverage busts resulting in 20 points. Not good.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...55/#172953955_4

Just thinking about this game after a couple days. Went back and watched some of it again. What I saw was a team with the ability to go toe to toe with a great team. I think many are overlooking the how good the offense played without both starting tackles. On the flip side I think people are not taking into account the injuries that the defense sustained. We ended the game with AJ Green and Troy Hill playing outside against a very good duo of WRs and a very good QB.
Rewatching I tried to watch Garret, and I noticed, just as in other games, he is getting held very often with no call. That has got to suck for him. I also noticed how much San Diego's CB and safeties were grabbing holding and shoving our recievers, again with no calls.
I am reading this thread and all the people blaming Baker for not being able to get the win. What I saw was a guy playing at a high level. I don't get it. The defense lost this game, no doubt, but the injuries that came about during the game hurt the chemistry of the defensive backfield. If Clowney was on the field, Herbert doesn't get those runs he had.
My hope is that the CBs can get healthy, and Clowney, Wills, and Conklin return. Baker is being bashed unfairly IMO, and I look for him to have another very good game.
This is the best team we have put on the field in decades. Instead of criticizing them constantly, I think we all need to sit back and look at the big picture. The season is young, stay positive.

It's an answer to a question we do not want to ask.

His viewpoint that the difference in the game was the offense scoring ONLY 42 instead of 48 or 49. Because we scored just over 40 points instead of just shy of 50, that was the reason we lost.

I'd love to know the difference in probability of a win when you score 48 vs 42.

Got it, rishuz, only you and a select few baker haters “know how the nfl works”. You should have used the purple font for sarcasm or maybe the baby blue font for bologna. Truthfully, anybody who thinks the last drive alone determines a successful quarterback doesn’t “know how the nfl works”. Anybody who blames a quarterback who produces 42 points in a game for the the loss because the d gave up 47 doesn’t “know how the nfl works”.

This franchise has been dead in the water for years and baker has led the turnaround. It will continue and all the whining you an you baker hating compadres do will not change that.

Like Baker called a draw on 3rd and 10 when two first downs gives you the win.

Complex plus lack of understanding equal wrong conclusions.

I have my towel.

Alas and alack! We are awash in the long, dark tea time of the Soul. Don't panic!

Why do you assume that if you're losing by 4-6 points under 2 minutes with no timeouts and you get the ball you will win?

What's the probability in said scenario? I would imagine it's not real high and below 50%. I don't really know. Then what's the probability for a top tier quarterback? I'd imagine it'll be a little higher.

I'd imagine with a minute and a half left no timeouts, we were at best 25% to win? So we win 1 out of 4 of those? How many games were we trailing in the final minute and a half and how many of those did we win? Was it 25%?

I don't know. I honestly haven't kept track of Baker's come from behind wins in the final minute. We know he's done it. I would also assume other top tier quarterbacks will lose these games as well, but I don't know. Does Tom Brady win every game he has the ball last under 2 minutes? What about aaron Rodgers? Mahomes? Wilson? Or even Manning or Brees?

Also, how good were the teams it's happened against? We know Baker did it vs the Bengals but that doesn't count because the Bengals were bad. Does Lamar doing it vs the Colts count or not because the Colts are bad. Just so many variables to consider....

It's not even the difference in probability. I'm sure the more points you score the greater the probability that you will win and that becomes diminishing once you get past a certain point, I would assume that point is somewhere near 40. You should win if you score more than 40 points.

If you spend the first 1/2-3/4 of the game building a 2+ score lead and then find yourself behind at the end needing to score on a short clock.. simple logic says you are going to lose some of those. We did it multiple times last year as well. We had leads, we allowed them to erode, we put ourselves in a crisis situation...

I like how the Baker haters here and on TV can say Baker didn't prove he can win because he had a chance at the end and didn't deliver. On the 3 and out , 1st down we ran Hunt around side for a loss ( should have been Chubb up the middle) 2nd down was a pass (Bakers only chance to win) to Higgins where I'm told he was knocked down before the ball got there. 3rd down run by Hunt on 3rd and 10. Yeah BAKERS FAULT!!! SMH

j/c

Unless I missed someone bringing it up….2nd to last play of the 3rd quarter with 9 seconds left:

Did anyone see Takk McKinley absolutely destroy the OT trying to block him? Holy heck, he ran over the tackle, forced Herbert to throw it away and drove him to the ground.

You missed the obvious, when coach doesn't let Baker throw on every down, it's because he doesn't trust him.

I think Kevin gets very predictable in those situations, shows no creativity... If you are going to throw, how about a screen pass on first down.. or a solid play action on first down when the entire other team is expecting run... we run on first down, then get into obvious passing situations and lose any advantage we might have had.

Well, let�s not do those different things again lol

+1

If Woods made changes in how or who was going to be responsible for making defensive play calls, he should have made 100% sure that the players involved knew what they were supposed to be doing. Woods failed to do his job and it cost the Browns another loss.

I'm not liking the trend I'm seeing with HC/OC Stefanski making a bad call to run a draw play on 3rd and 10 late in the game....

...and now DC Woods admitting he made some changes, doing some "different things with technique", that led to the two busted coverages handing the Chargers two FREE TOUCHDOWNS.

This stupid crap from our coaches must stop or we can all forget about the playoffs and a shot at the SB..NOT GONNA HAPPEN IF THE BROWNS COACHING STAFF CONTINUES TO SCREWUP.

Where does the change in technique refer to a change in who is calling the defensive plays? Of course he had to change who was calling the defensive plays on the field because the usual play caller was injured and not on the field. But technique has nothing to do with who is calling the plays on the field.

Here's a thought.The DC might just be trying to cover for the boneheaded play of the 5th,6th and 7th corners.

I would just love to hear which teams could play their 5th, 6th and 7th CB's and not see some boneheaded plays. This should be interesting.

Our CBs will be tested tomorrow against some very good WRs