Show of hands ... who feels comfortable with York as our kicker for week 1?

Watson was mediocre IMO .. a few decent throws (one good one for a TD), but I still am shaky with him. He seems tentative and has slow eyes

We desperately need Nick Chubb (obviously)

Thornhill continues to impress ... and our 1st string D played very inspired

Our depth is trash ... thank goodness we don't have to watch some of them anymore

Biggest takeaway.

In the 4th quarter of the final game, you look at individual player and not whole units ..... because most of those guys wil either be in a practice squad or bagging groceries.

What more does York need to do to kick himself off the team?

There needs to be an intervention. Someone needs to sit Berry down and not let him leave until he agrees to get us a new kicker. York will cost us games
. (Like he did last year)

York, for one! Numbers 38 (?) and 41 (Heslop) also. I don't know if keeping Hudson III is in our best interest. We have gone from one of the best offensive backfields to one of the worst (with the notable exception of Chubb, of course). Why did we let D'Earnest Johnson walk? I believe we have good depth in spots, but I trust Berry is closely watching the waiver wire....

Kevin can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

He is even worse to head coaching

than

Your general consensous perception of how bad York is to kickers.

We need a kicker ASAP!

York cost us 2 games in the preseason. Imagine the regular season!

yes #38 needs to be gone, and Biggers, York, and some of those backup LB/DB

Wonder if we can get a pick from the Colts for Harris. I think Wypler has shown enough to make him expendable, and Indy has had some OL injuries.

We might need to lock York, Bojorquez, and Hughlett in the stadium until gameday. It's easy to put it all on York, but they all need to get the whole operation tuned up.

I'm looking forward to the season.

The defense looks really good and should increase the overall snap count for the offense by getting opposing offenses off the field.
Deshaun looked good, not great, in both starts in the preseason. I trust Stefanski to make the most out of his QB (Mayfield, Brissett).
I don't think we used the preferred playbook for Watson in preseason.
Chubb didn't play and that will always matter for the defense and help Watson.
I feel bad for Jakeem Grant. What a bad break.

Do try to remember that the #1 might have played 1qtr...

A combination of #2, 3 and/or 4th stringer players played the rest of the game.

Many are just trying to impress enough to make the team.

Where will the players only defensive meeting be where they decide
that even if they get nine+ sacks a game on defense
and 2 scores
that the offensive coaching will still put them in jeopardy of winning on gamedays.

and if that doesn't happen the league bias's for whatever reason, will manufacture a loss out of bad ref calls.

Now the Games Count.

We’re gonna ride or die with Cade.

Deshawn looked ok. Not 250 million ok. But ok.

I know this is a Cleveland thing (back-up qb love), but I’d rather find some idiot team to take Watson, even if we took half of the cost, and roll with DTR.

Even if he balls out, I have a tough time rooting for this guy.

Unbelievable.....get another kicker into town.

Phil Dawson returns...wouldn't that be a great Browns story..?

But, given the group running the team now, there is no way this front office or owner would ever accept Dawson returning, even if he is more accurate.

That said, a video showing one good kick from 55 yds is not enough.

My hand would be up, ... at the risk of saying it too many times

When you put it up next to ,
Browns' offense has a first and ten at the 30, or a first down inside the ten, both in scoring position, what will happen next.

vs.

Cade York is about to attempt a kick,

and
which one is a bigger problem and will cost you games????

Yorks kicking woes are not even ONE TENTH the problem that the offenses' woes in scoring position and unwillingness to "attempt" big plays that could draw a thirtynine yard pass intereference flag in Your Favor, are
in costing you games

the 2nd one is So BIG of a problem,

That you may as well overlook the kicking woes entirely.

bad news on Ward. There is the concern he's going to be out a while. He's had so many concussions

I watched the game until the 4th quarter, took a nap & recorded the rest. Just watched it. Cade York blew it. We gotta get another kicker. He just can't cut it under the bright lights.

that's the thing .. in practice the reports are that he's solid. So it's clearly a mental thing

I felt bad for Grant. Damn that has to be really hard given all he has come through.

The starting defense looks real good. "Z" is a man. He was dominant. The defensive front was really impressive.

Juan is a big upgrade over JJ3.

Nick Chubb makes a huge difference. Felton is not impressing me at all. Obviously the handoffs were from no reps.

The offense missing starters is hard to judge. DW looked ok. He made some good throws. He moved well. Not much to see because of the fumbles taking plays away.

Once the starters were out it was mostly players that will not make the roster.

Cade York. Berry made a mistake not having competition from the start of camp. You don't hand the job to someone who has yet to earn it.

He shanked the first xtra point. Then got hit. I don't trust him kicking xtra points let alone a winning field goal.

I would not go overboard about the offensive numbers. I don't think they mean much.

A full game with all starters is so different.

Now it gets real. Two weeks and we will really get to look under the hood.

forgot about Grant too ... that's really crappy for him. He worked hard to return. I have to think it will be another uphill battle now. Prayers to him

Hospital Ward out with another concussion. 4 concussions now in his NFL career. I'm surprised he's allowed to play anymore for his own physical well-being

On York's 1st kick (and miss), Joe Thomas made an observation that the ball did a helicopter motion, not end over end the typical way the ball is kicked. Is York a knuckle ball kicker?? I dunno but it is imperitave we bring in another kicker before Sept 10. Imagine for the other players fighting tooth and nail all game long, and your kicker shanks it in the end to cost you the game. What is more annoying is when the post game interview occurs, some player or coach will say "we have along season ahead of us, more games to play so not worried about this one loss". Well guess what, each game is important, and when at the end of the season your playoff destiny is now determined by some complicated series of events that need to happen then you'll sing a different tune

York has to be replaced. You can’t go into a season crossing your fingers every time he kicks. You can’t have playoff/super bowl aspirations with a serious hole at K. I call the Chargers and offer something for the loser of Hopkins, Dicker. Or sign Mason Crosby, he’s money under 50.

We need a RB 2 and 3. Not sure who to look at but Philly has alot of RB’s, they can’t keep them all. Maybe Jacob Saylors from Cincy.

I know it’s preseason, but we just don’t throw downfield.

You are wrong about that even though it's your opinion.

Y'all amaze me !

Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb did not play.

The defensive front looks amazing and Myles our best player has not played.

Chubb not playing is a giant hole.

Except for York I feel pretty damn good.

Overall,way more positives today than negatives. I thought Watson was solid enough, great pass to Njoku for the TD and I think once gets some more players under his belt will do just fine. Defensively, our front were tremendous; linebackers not the best but will be ok in that regard.

York is York;what I mean by that is he is not going to all of a sudden turn into a Pro Bowler. You have to have a dependable kicker in this league to make any noise and I really don't think he is it for us. A shame as reports I have read is that he is tremendous in practice but nerves I guess are getting to him when it comes to in game situations. Only thing is: Are there really that many viable options out there to compete with him? Maybe see who doesn't make other teams rosters? A conundrum for sure.

Now interested to see who makes it, some tough decisions for sure imo.

Yeah I was hoping he could be a very good returner for us, but injury bug got him again. Hope he gets better for his own sake, but not sure he will ever be healthy enough to be a factor in this league tbh.

Tough time rooting for him? I let his personal life thing go a long time ago, is what it is. He is our QB and hopefully he gets back to what he was in Houston.

The defensive front has looked really good to me too. Tomlinson, Harris, Z, Garrett, Ogbo, JOK, etc ... that'll be fun

I said the same exact thing in last week's Game Day thread and in this week's Game Day thread. When York kicks the ball and it goes end over end vertically or even with a little tilt, like it is supposed to, good things happen. When he kicks knuckle balls, bad things happen.The announcers last week commented on the odd spin he tends to put on the ball.

The Benglas and Ravens have excellent field goal kickers and the Steelers have a decent one as well. Outside of a strong leg, ours is light years behind them.

Three most important positions in football ... GM, HC, QB.

GM is still a TBD.

Stefanski is a bottom third HC, maybe bottom fourth. He has no idea how to prepare a team or players to get ready to play. Look at the difference between two legitimate head coaches in Reid and Tomlin and how their teams practice and perform. It's night and day. Reid will play players in the preseason who need to play. Stefanski will follow a recipe and stick to it, without accounting for situation, nuance, need, or thinking about the ultimate goals. Think of the players primes he is wasting. So frustrated with this guy. He's so awful.

Watson looks mediocre at best. Can't play from the pocket. I've been told non-stop how awesome he is/was by everyone I know who follows football. He can't even play well in preseason. I don't wish injury on anyone, but I wouldn't mind DTR finding his way onto the field.

This team has 7-10 written all over it. No one has ever done less with more than Stefanski. Think about how little he has done with a top 3 edge, a top 5 OL, a top 10 CB, and the best RB in the NFL. It's crazy. Most coaches would kill for the Browns talent. They've had top 5 talent the last 3 or 4 years and he can't win.

And finally, get Gould here.

A question is: Is the problem with York or the holder?
He reportedly doesn't miss in practice.
How much of that is off a tee?
Purportedly, our holder caused problems when he was in GB

I don't know the answer but feel it is a legitimate question;.

Chase McGlaughlin was 5-5 this preseason

Send the Pats a (late) 5th for Nick Folk. York to the practice squad.

This is my fear - I guess until week 4 or 5 I'm not prepared to say these things are my opinion with conviction. I'm hoping by then Stefanski will have coordinated and coached the team to impressive wins and look vastly better to last year and this preseason and most of the season's he had with BM as QB. Watson had all the excuses for last season with his time away and off field issues. . . and all the fan boys came up with every excuse for him asnd kept telling me and anyone that would listen he is/was a top 5 QB and was going to be a saviour for the Browns and unshackle Stefanski who couldn't call his offense because of the incompetence of the former QB ... Well my fear is the Browns will be the same as it ever was based on everything I have witnessed so far with Deshaun as the QB of the team. And while I like and hope Baker does well in Tampa - it will be a gut punch to see Tampa do well and the Browns to miss the playoffs - if it shakes out that way.

By and large I still have no forecast or expectation for the season to come, which is new and different for me. I kind of like it.

York cost us games last year and 2 in this years pre season. From the sound of it from Stef and Berry they have all the confidence in the world for York so it doesn't sound like he will be going anywhere unfortunately. I myself wouldn't let him anywhere near the locker room cause he is terrible. He must have some trash on Stef and Berry cause if I were in either of their positions he would be the first person cut. I don't know why Haslam doesn't step in and tell them he has to go. He IS gonna cost us games if they keep him and that's pretty much a fact.

Hospital Ward is a good player. Too bad he doesn't play enough.

"By and large I still have no forecast or expectation for the season to come, which is new and different for me. I kind of like it."


Perhaps that is the best approach to take.

Rather than say this team is a 7-10 team or a 13-4 team.

We don't get to watch all the practices. We don't attend meetings. We rely upon opinions of others who cover the team and are reporters with limits as well.

To watch pre-season games and come up with a prediction seems illogical.

I will say this the defense will be better. I am confident in saying that. Schwartz is a proven defensive coach. They have added significant talent.
The Eagles practice and the games have shown that pressure will be applied to opposing quarterbacks. The secondary is improved and are talented.

DW and the offense is still to be determined. However, the ranking of the OL is fact. Nick Chubb has proven who he is.

The passing attack remains in question until we see them perform in real games.

That makes 2 of us. Good Lord, what does he (and Schwartz) have to do to get cut? These games are to show why you belong on the team and hone your skills. Neither is happening.

First I'll address the obvious. York should be toast. But I think some fans are making too much about the vocal support he is getting from Stefanski and Berry. I mean what are they supposed to say? "He's on the roster but he sucks!"? No, they aren't going to say that about any player who is currently on the roster. You support the players you have until you no longer have them. That's what coaches do.

And people are actually giving Stefanski crap about play calling in the preseason? What frickin' planet do you live on? NO teams show their hand in the preseason. It's all vanilla and smart coaches call plays that put their players in the position to answer the questions that are still remaining about them. What a joke.

Watson had a couple of throws that looked very good. Others not so good. It was a mixed bag and I don't think anyone can draw any real conclusions either way from it. Any way you slice it his completion rate was 50%.

The first string D looked fast and improved. Something I was not only hoping but expecting to see. As I've stated before it seems some of the players on D have been given more freedom to read and react to what they see than having strict assignments.

Pre-season practice games are NOT for practicing schemes

They are mostly used to put certain players in a situation and to see how that player is handling the situation

While most of us are watching a game, the Coaches are watching how players are handling the situation they were put in

A linemans situation may affect the outcome of a play, but the coaches are more focused on how that player did.

Trying to put together a 53 man roster.

Winning Losing Tieing a pre-season game in no way makes me feel the team is great god bad or trash

two weeks from today is when it matters and when the real schemes will be played

York on the other hand

one thing about Watson that is troubling to me: he seems to have really slow eyes. It's like he drops back in the pocket and freezes for a second, and then releases it from a strange angle compared to most QBs. It's a really odd thing to watch.

One thing that bugged me watching was those 2 fumbles. DW needed some reps and those TO took some away from him. I know I'm nitpicking but I SMH when they happened.

Dawgs, DW has some faults I'm sure but I really believe however he plays he will be better than Baker. He moves around much better can run better and has a stronger arm. Those attributes alone make him a better QB.

I have a quick question regarding York. I watched the first half and just a bit of the second before heading to mass yesterday afternoon. After I got home, I was on here and I realized Cade missed an XP, but eventually from posters' descriptions that he also missed a FG attempt. O started to rewatch some but it was tough to watch a third stringers in a PS game when I already know the outcome.

Can anyone give me details of his FG miss, such as distance, time remaining, was it is so late that it would have likely won the game? Just curious if was in a pressure situation had it been a regular season game.

He certainly has a better all around skill set. What we have to wait and see about is whether it's 230 million dollars worth of good. The Browns didn't sign him to that huge contract just because, "He's better than Baker". The jury is still out.

York had a 43 yarder blocked with 12 seconds left in the game. The kick was low as it was blocked by a guy in the middle of the line without much/if any penetration.

Thanks. I tend to be all in on all current Browns, but man, York makes it very tough. I can't believe he has gone from hero after last season's first game winning field goal to where he stands now.

I think something mental and/or personal is going on with him; dude has lost all his talent if that makes sense; its a shame.

We need to bring another kicker in. We won't win anything with an unreliable kicker. Too many games come down to a last second FG. That's the bottom line.

Out of all the free agents out there, who would we bring in is the question. Personally, I'd look at Blankenship or Succop.

With Moore in trade every pick so far looks good.

Tillman, Ika, Jones, McGuire, DTR, Cameron Mitchell, and undrafted free agent Diabate.

Tillman, Jones, DTR standout. Diabate could make the roster. McGuire and Mitchell we shall see.

this is how I feel too. We gave up 3 1st round picks and $230 million haha!! He had better be a freaking stud. He's looked very pedestrian (nicely) since November

Tep, you don't give up that much draft collateral and financial resource for "pretty good".

Look. You just have your mind set. I have no problem with that, but just say you don't like the guy.

The picks is what it took. Other teams were willing to pay that as well.

What we paid him doesn't matter. It's what you have to pay for a good QB. He isn't the highest paid QB in the league. The guarantee doesn't matter. QBs who make that money don't get cut.

When reading your comments and the comments of others, I get the impression it doesn't matter what Watson does, it isn't going to be good enough.

Cool, you have your opinion, and I respect that. Just stop with the talk about picks and money.

Had lunch with a hard core football guy today after church. He's a long suffering Bengals fan and is kind of living large these days. We talked a lot about the entire AFC North. His take on York is that it isn't him. He's swears up and down that it's the holder. He said it could be something as simple is how much pressure is being applied to the ball during the hold. It was described as a weird kind of dance between the kicker and the holder. York can't have fallen off the cliff that hard in one year. Problem is there's not much time to fix it.

Or we could be totally wrong. The world needs ditch diggers, too.

there are some people who swear by that train of thought as well. You wonder if we could have ANYONE else be a viable holder? Could DTR? Can we try anybody else?

If it was the holder I'm sure the coaching staff would know.. And people acting like he wasn't bad last year.. 75% hit rate is horrid.. I don't think its the holder or the snapper or anything other than between the ears. But worse, is this staff didnt bring anyone else in to kick in camp...at all.. Most teams bring in a camp leg just like QBs so they have some healthy competition while not running them into the ground. The fact they are going into the season with a 75% kicker, when guys like Crosby, Blankenship, Gould, and succop all have higher percentages for alot longer shows this FO just doesn't ever admit mistakes.. Only took them 3 years to finally admit schwartz wasn't an nfl receiver despite everyone else on earth seeing that from year 1. No way I go into the season with a kicker having an existential crisis

Doesn't the same holder hold in practices, when Cade was 6/6?

I think it's a pressure thing, and it isn't the holder feeling that pressure.

Exactly. York has the yips. It's that simple.

The "blaming the holder" conspiracy was squashed last year by Stefanski and the coaching staff. Bojorquez holds in all the special team kicking drills where York (and all the beat reporters) have noted he's been nearly perfect.

Steve Sax Syndrome

Though never regarded as one of the top fielding second basemen in the league, Steve Sax inexplicably became incapable of making routine throws to first base in 1983, committing 30 errors that season. This is referred to in baseball terminology as "Steve Sax Syndrome", the fielder's variant of "Steve Blass disease," named after the Pirates pitcher who suffered a similar breakdown of basic mechanics (also known as "The Yips"). As his accuracy suffered, fans sitting behind the first base dugout began wearing batting helmets as mock protection. (Teammate Pedro Guerrero, an outfielder pressed into service at third base in 1983, once reportedly stated that his first thought whenever he was in the field was "I hope they don't hit it to me", while his second thought was "I hope they don't hit it to Sax.")

Source - Wikipedia

I think it would behoove him to sit some time on a practice squad and work things out. The problem is we are probably afraid of releasing him and someone else picking him up and him thriving (Like Daniel Carlson, who Stefanski saw in Minnesota)

My goodness does Wypler get his butt handed to him at LG on that play...yikes.

That is the reason. The problem is it is hard to stash a kicker. You have limited roster spots on the practice squad and I am not sure a team would be keen to use one of them on a kicker.

The other problem is a guy like Gould wouldn't come here for a competition. He would come for a job. For it to work otherwise we would probably have to gurantee Goulds contract and pay him a $million or so more.

He wouldn't come for a "kick off" with other players. He would only come here to show the Browns he can still kick.

yeah any experienced guy like that isn't coming here for a kick-off. So we are kinda stuck

Yep,,Thus the dilemma.

I don't know how many of you play golf. I don't care how good you are, if you shank one off the hosel, it's hard to get that thought out of your head.

Well get ready because the Browns (and Andrew Berry) are going to die with Cade York. This guy might be a practice day superstar but he CLEARLY cannot make kicks when he's on the clock (preaseason or regular season). The egos in Berea are going to lose their jobs over a damn kicker. Browns being the Browns. SMH

Could be.

I drink a lot of beer when I golf peen. Golf and pool are the two sports that I play better after I’ve had a few. It does wonders for shaking off bad shots. 😆

Anyway…. Ummm come this Sunday, we’ll all be posting in a Browns/Bengals thread as we get ready for real football! Wooohoo!

You're being ridiculous. The NFL isn't a sport to those writing the checks. It's a business. You don't spend 230 million dollars and all of those picks not to get a good return on your investment. Everyone, even you know this. And it is true that he isn't the highest paid QB, he is the QB with the highest guaranteed contract in the NFL. And he is certainly in the top paid tier of NFL QB's. As such to get a return on your investment the production should match the investment.

And from reading your post it seems none of that matters to you. That you have decided to throw basic business principals out the window. That you are setting up excuses to downplay things if he doesn't produce in relationship to what he is being paid and shift the blame to others if or when that may happen.

I have no idea how all of this will pan out. But it is the most huge investment this owner and FO has ever made. As such it should pay dividends accordingly. That's the way business works and you know it. Trying to blame others for pointing that out isn't attractive.

Think back to the Brock Osweiler's trade. The Browns made it known what a second round pick was worth to them. They absorbed a cost to pay his contract of 16 million dollars in order to get a second round pick in return. If they valued a second round pick at 16 million dollars, just imagine what they value a first round pick to be worth. At the very least 20 million. So just those three first rounders you can add another 60 million to what they paid for watson. Then you have those additional picks as well.

I don't like watson the person. I've never tried to hide that and display it openly. But that has nothing, and I mean nothing to do with his performance on the field. It has nothing to do with whether he plays to the level he is being paid. And that has everything to do with whether watson will be viewed as being successful or not with the Browns.

Everything else are just excuses and trying to blame others for holding him, this owner and the FO accountable for this deal.

Rick Ankiel was an incredible pitcher until he could not throw a strike.

He started throwing wild misses. Eventually he quit pitching.

He was such a talented ball player that he came back as a center fielder. He could make great throws from the outfield.

But he never pitched again.

Chuck Knoblauch had the same issues as a 2B

Get him a lingerie magazine to recite and be done with it. Geez, if it can work for Rube it can work for anyone.

I think you ae the one being ridiculous.

Some keep talking about ROI...I'll let the team decide what is a fair return...not some guy on a message board...many who no matter what probably won't be satisfied.

I understand some people ignore math and money that's invested. Others not so much. Return on investment simply means that the return you get should be commensurate with the money you invested. And you can measure that by the money paid and how it ranks at the position. I had no idea this is a debatable topic. Unless of course someone is trying to plant preemptive excuses.

Pit, I don't need you trying to give me lessons in business and money.

Thanks

I didn't think you needed them until you started denying them.

I didn't change anything. You can read my comments. You were the one who started talking about ROI. My problem is the ROI as you mention seems to be a changing factor when in fact in business it is a set figure.

What sort of return is expected to make the investment viable.

As I said, that seems to change with the wind. It doesn't matter to some, which is fine, just say so. Don't start talking about picks invested, money spent or any of the other things.

Bottom line is as long as the team feels it was a good move, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans what fans think.

Steve Sax was who I was thinking of when this kicker stuff was going down.

So don't talk about investment in order to determine what the return should be? If the investment is that of a top 5 QB, he should be a top 5 QB. If the investment were that of a QB paid in the bottom half of the league the return would be judged according to that investment as well. I will always say that as a corporation, EVERYTHING is judged according to ROI. That just how corporations operate and you know that.


And we will never know what they think no matter how he plays. I mean they loved Cade York until the day he was cut, right? That will always be the company line.

Any time you pay an employee more than what his services have earned, you are overpaying that employee. Whether that will turn out to be the case remains to be seen. But making preemptive excuses in the event that does happen isn't working for most people.

Chuck Knoblauch and the pitcher from St. Louis - name escapes me. Had the yips also. Knoblauch couldn’t toss the ball from his second base position over to first place- moved him to the outfield. The kid from St. Louis couldn’t come within 5’ of the strike zone. - Ended up having a decent career as an outfielder/hitter.

I can imagine that the pressure for a place kicker is way more intense. Only 17 games a year compared to 162 in baseball, no chance to make up for an error with the bat. Sometimes the entire outcome of a game depends on your leg.

exactly it ended Knoblauch's career (imagine that as a second baseman)

Yep. Honestly, I’m surprised that it doesn’t happen more often in basketball. - No margin for error to get the ball in the hoop. Whereas in baseball and even place kicking, you have some leeway.

R/E the young Cardinals player I mentioned above- Rick Ankiel.

I don't know. A 2nd baseman usually doesn't or can't just whip it over. You see lot's of pitchers have trouble with that comebacker and tossing it over to 1st.

A lot of QB's struggle with that touch pass. In basketball it is more in the wrists and the shoulders don't come in to play. They don't dictate the speed of the ball the way if does with an overhand throw.

I don't know. A 2nd baseman usually doesn't or can't just whip it over. You see lot's of pitchers have trouble with that comebacker and tossing it over to 1st. You don't see 3rd basemen or shortstops have that problem because they can just fire it over to first.

A lot of QB's struggle with that touch pass. In basketball it is more in the wrists and the shoulders don't come in to play. They don't dictate the speed of the ball the way if does with an overhand throw.