DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2023 NFL Season Preseason Gameday vs Kansas City Postgame Thoughts

That makes 2 of us. Good Lord, what does he (and Schwartz) have to do to get cut? These games are to show why you belong on the team and hone your skills. Neither is happening.

First I'll address the obvious. York should be toast. But I think some fans are making too much about the vocal support he is getting from Stefanski and Berry. I mean what are they supposed to say? "He's on the roster but he sucks!"? No, they aren't going to say that about any player who is currently on the roster. You support the players you have until you no longer have them. That's what coaches do.

And people are actually giving Stefanski crap about play calling in the preseason? What frickin' planet do you live on? NO teams show their hand in the preseason. It's all vanilla and smart coaches call plays that put their players in the position to answer the questions that are still remaining about them. What a joke.

Watson had a couple of throws that looked very good. Others not so good. It was a mixed bag and I don't think anyone can draw any real conclusions either way from it. Any way you slice it his completion rate was 50%.

The first string D looked fast and improved. Something I was not only hoping but expecting to see. As I've stated before it seems some of the players on D have been given more freedom to read and react to what they see than having strict assignments.

Pre-season practice games are NOT for practicing schemes

They are mostly used to put certain players in a situation and to see how that player is handling the situation

While most of us are watching a game, the Coaches are watching how players are handling the situation they were put in

A linemans situation may affect the outcome of a play, but the coaches are more focused on how that player did.

Trying to put together a 53 man roster.

Winning Losing Tieing a pre-season game in no way makes me feel the team is great god bad or trash

two weeks from today is when it matters and when the real schemes will be played

York on the other hand

one thing about Watson that is troubling to me: he seems to have really slow eyes. It's like he drops back in the pocket and freezes for a second, and then releases it from a strange angle compared to most QBs. It's a really odd thing to watch.

One thing that bugged me watching was those 2 fumbles. DW needed some reps and those TO took some away from him. I know I'm nitpicking but I SMH when they happened.

Dawgs, DW has some faults I'm sure but I really believe however he plays he will be better than Baker. He moves around much better can run better and has a stronger arm. Those attributes alone make him a better QB.

I have a quick question regarding York. I watched the first half and just a bit of the second before heading to mass yesterday afternoon. After I got home, I was on here and I realized Cade missed an XP, but eventually from posters' descriptions that he also missed a FG attempt. O started to rewatch some but it was tough to watch a third stringers in a PS game when I already know the outcome.

Can anyone give me details of his FG miss, such as distance, time remaining, was it is so late that it would have likely won the game? Just curious if was in a pressure situation had it been a regular season game.

He certainly has a better all around skill set. What we have to wait and see about is whether it's 230 million dollars worth of good. The Browns didn't sign him to that huge contract just because, "He's better than Baker". The jury is still out.

York had a 43 yarder blocked with 12 seconds left in the game. The kick was low as it was blocked by a guy in the middle of the line without much/if any penetration.

Thanks. I tend to be all in on all current Browns, but man, York makes it very tough. I can't believe he has gone from hero after last season's first game winning field goal to where he stands now.

I think something mental and/or personal is going on with him; dude has lost all his talent if that makes sense; its a shame.

We need to bring another kicker in. We won't win anything with an unreliable kicker. Too many games come down to a last second FG. That's the bottom line.

Out of all the free agents out there, who would we bring in is the question. Personally, I'd look at Blankenship or Succop.

this is how I feel too. We gave up 3 1st round picks and $230 million haha!! He had better be a freaking stud. He's looked very pedestrian (nicely) since November

Tep, you don't give up that much draft collateral and financial resource for "pretty good".

Look. You just have your mind set. I have no problem with that, but just say you don't like the guy.

The picks is what it took. Other teams were willing to pay that as well.

What we paid him doesn't matter. It's what you have to pay for a good QB. He isn't the highest paid QB in the league. The guarantee doesn't matter. QBs who make that money don't get cut.

When reading your comments and the comments of others, I get the impression it doesn't matter what Watson does, it isn't going to be good enough.

Cool, you have your opinion, and I respect that. Just stop with the talk about picks and money.

Had lunch with a hard core football guy today after church. He's a long suffering Bengals fan and is kind of living large these days. We talked a lot about the entire AFC North. His take on York is that it isn't him. He's swears up and down that it's the holder. He said it could be something as simple is how much pressure is being applied to the ball during the hold. It was described as a weird kind of dance between the kicker and the holder. York can't have fallen off the cliff that hard in one year. Problem is there's not much time to fix it.

Or we could be totally wrong. The world needs ditch diggers, too.

there are some people who swear by that train of thought as well. You wonder if we could have ANYONE else be a viable holder? Could DTR? Can we try anybody else?

If it was the holder I'm sure the coaching staff would know.. And people acting like he wasn't bad last year.. 75% hit rate is horrid.. I don't think its the holder or the snapper or anything other than between the ears. But worse, is this staff didnt bring anyone else in to kick in camp...at all.. Most teams bring in a camp leg just like QBs so they have some healthy competition while not running them into the ground. The fact they are going into the season with a 75% kicker, when guys like Crosby, Blankenship, Gould, and succop all have higher percentages for alot longer shows this FO just doesn't ever admit mistakes.. Only took them 3 years to finally admit schwartz wasn't an nfl receiver despite everyone else on earth seeing that from year 1. No way I go into the season with a kicker having an existential crisis

Doesn't the same holder hold in practices, when Cade was 6/6?

I think it's a pressure thing, and it isn't the holder feeling that pressure.

Exactly. York has the yips. It's that simple.

The "blaming the holder" conspiracy was squashed last year by Stefanski and the coaching staff. Bojorquez holds in all the special team kicking drills where York (and all the beat reporters) have noted he's been nearly perfect.

Steve Sax Syndrome

Though never regarded as one of the top fielding second basemen in the league, Steve Sax inexplicably became incapable of making routine throws to first base in 1983, committing 30 errors that season. This is referred to in baseball terminology as "Steve Sax Syndrome", the fielder's variant of "Steve Blass disease," named after the Pirates pitcher who suffered a similar breakdown of basic mechanics (also known as "The Yips"). As his accuracy suffered, fans sitting behind the first base dugout began wearing batting helmets as mock protection. (Teammate Pedro Guerrero, an outfielder pressed into service at third base in 1983, once reportedly stated that his first thought whenever he was in the field was "I hope they don't hit it to me", while his second thought was "I hope they don't hit it to Sax.")

Source - Wikipedia

I think it would behoove him to sit some time on a practice squad and work things out. The problem is we are probably afraid of releasing him and someone else picking him up and him thriving (Like Daniel Carlson, who Stefanski saw in Minnesota)

My goodness does Wypler get his butt handed to him at LG on that play...yikes.

That is the reason. The problem is it is hard to stash a kicker. You have limited roster spots on the practice squad and I am not sure a team would be keen to use one of them on a kicker.

The other problem is a guy like Gould wouldn't come here for a competition. He would come for a job. For it to work otherwise we would probably have to gurantee Goulds contract and pay him a $million or so more.

He wouldn't come for a "kick off" with other players. He would only come here to show the Browns he can still kick.

yeah any experienced guy like that isn't coming here for a kick-off. So we are kinda stuck

Yep,,Thus the dilemma.

I don't know how many of you play golf. I don't care how good you are, if you shank one off the hosel, it's hard to get that thought out of your head.

Well get ready because the Browns (and Andrew Berry) are going to die with Cade York. This guy might be a practice day superstar but he CLEARLY cannot make kicks when he's on the clock (preaseason or regular season). The egos in Berea are going to lose their jobs over a damn kicker. Browns being the Browns. SMH

Could be.

I drink a lot of beer when I golf peen. Golf and pool are the two sports that I play better after I’ve had a few. It does wonders for shaking off bad shots. 😆

Anyway…. Ummm come this Sunday, we’ll all be posting in a Browns/Bengals thread as we get ready for real football! Wooohoo!

You're being ridiculous. The NFL isn't a sport to those writing the checks. It's a business. You don't spend 230 million dollars and all of those picks not to get a good return on your investment. Everyone, even you know this. And it is true that he isn't the highest paid QB, he is the QB with the highest guaranteed contract in the NFL. And he is certainly in the top paid tier of NFL QB's. As such to get a return on your investment the production should match the investment.

And from reading your post it seems none of that matters to you. That you have decided to throw basic business principals out the window. That you are setting up excuses to downplay things if he doesn't produce in relationship to what he is being paid and shift the blame to others if or when that may happen.

I have no idea how all of this will pan out. But it is the most huge investment this owner and FO has ever made. As such it should pay dividends accordingly. That's the way business works and you know it. Trying to blame others for pointing that out isn't attractive.

Think back to the Brock Osweiler's trade. The Browns made it known what a second round pick was worth to them. They absorbed a cost to pay his contract of 16 million dollars in order to get a second round pick in return. If they valued a second round pick at 16 million dollars, just imagine what they value a first round pick to be worth. At the very least 20 million. So just those three first rounders you can add another 60 million to what they paid for watson. Then you have those additional picks as well.

I don't like watson the person. I've never tried to hide that and display it openly. But that has nothing, and I mean nothing to do with his performance on the field. It has nothing to do with whether he plays to the level he is being paid. And that has everything to do with whether watson will be viewed as being successful or not with the Browns.

Everything else are just excuses and trying to blame others for holding him, this owner and the FO accountable for this deal.

Chuck Knoblauch had the same issues as a 2B

Get him a lingerie magazine to recite and be done with it. Geez, if it can work for Rube it can work for anyone.

I think you ae the one being ridiculous.

Some keep talking about ROI...I'll let the team decide what is a fair return...not some guy on a message board...many who no matter what probably won't be satisfied.

I understand some people ignore math and money that's invested. Others not so much. Return on investment simply means that the return you get should be commensurate with the money you invested. And you can measure that by the money paid and how it ranks at the position. I had no idea this is a debatable topic. Unless of course someone is trying to plant preemptive excuses.