hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Austin Davis looked good........

Not to worry Dawg's , Gruden said Jimmy was getting it all straightened out !

Aren't Haslam and Gruden buddies?

Gruden is our next coach!

Just another game with pathetic clock management. Par for the course for the entire year.

It looks like McCown was left in the game with a broken collarbone.

Best game of the year. I laughed and laughed. Zero sacks. So Pettine doesn't have to hand out any fines. Zero rushing touchdowns yet again.

We have TWO rushing touchdowns by running backs so far.
We have 16 sacks in 11 games.
We are last in the league against the run.

This franchise is a joke. And they just proved it on national TV.

Pettine and company are the worst coaching staff in the league bar none.

No need for that type of comment...

Yeah this is such a talented roster as proclaimed by many
At the start of the year.
Lost to a team missing half their offensive starters.

hopefully that means Haslam is going to hire Gruden.

If you weren't laughing on that blocked field goal, then you take things waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

Only the Browns could lose that way

No need for this comment either...

Why? I laughed my ASS off. That ending was hilarious. Benny Hill type stuff. I assure you it will make the NFL Films football follies....

No, I wasn't laughing. And there are still a few of us here who do take it to heart...

[/thread]

I'm at a loss with this coaching staff. Don't start Johnny earlier in the season cause Josh gives us the best chance to win and he doesn't want to lose the locker room/vets/Joe Thomas. Can you honestly tell me Austin Davis gave us the best chance to win? Starting Josh over Johnny this game was punishment enough, making him 3rd string was Mike being petty.

JMO

Please, gruden is clueless also. He will bring in 50 qbs, running the west coast offense that only he knows the verbage too!!..

So that means everyone has to be sensitive to your issues?

Between the clock management and the blocked field goal, that last sequence was straight comedy.

Pettine and Farmer stand at 9 and 18

For every win we get to enjoy two losses.

Doesn't get any better than this.

Started following the game pretty apathetic. Went down a few scores and thought "Oh well, it'll get us one step closer to the number 1 pick." Slowly got more and more into it as game went on.

That was a crazy last couple minutes.

2xThree and Outs
Interception
Blocked FG TD return?!

Davis looked pretty good, but definitely poor clock management. I don't blame that on on the coaches--that's all on Austin. You can't take 25 seconds to get a play off when there are only 40 seconds left in the game. That snap should have happened with 28-30 seconds left in the game, but he kept running it down. If he'd have got it off on time, it would have given us probably 20 seconds with two timeouts-that's the perfect scenario in field goal range.

Instead, he took too long then slid in bounds two yards from the sideline?? Moronic. Pet's clock management has been garbage all year, but that drive isn't on him.

Other thoughts:

Pet showed some fire at times. I really thought he was going to go for two after Davis' last TD. I had a bad feeling about it, but it understood it. He was also visibly pissed when Davis slid in bounds.

Our WRs are bad.

We really abandon the run too much. If we actually draft a rookie QB in RD1 next year, we need to fix our run game.

We gave up 33 points, but it didn't feel like the D was getting gashed. Granted, I was following the game on phone most of the night.

Shelton was underwhelming in the few plays I noticed him.

Gruden really likes Manziel.

It's a DAMN good thing that no changes to scheme or personnel were made over the bye week. Operation "CLEAN SWEEP" should be put into motion about 5 minutes after the Steelers kick the crap out of the Browns on the last day of the season. LMFAO

RING

winning against a team he built so he had two teams in the SB.

he knows the game and he CARES, which is more than Pettine and company. At least he's BEEN there.

What a way to lose! The only thing I had left to look forward to this season was a sweep of the Ravens... If the left side of the line had just stood up when the Raven jumped 3 yards offside and sat in the neutral zone for a second we'd have gotten a flag and moved the kick up 5 yards...oh well now we'll get a higher drafted bust to distract us from Mingo and Gilbert.. Yeeewwww!!!

Seriously why is anyone glad we're getting a high pick? We've had them for 15 years and have 6 first rounders since 2012 and our roster is mess! We have no hope of doing anything in the AFCN until Big Ben, Dalton and Flacco have all retired. Our couches suck, or GM is a ham-headed narcissist and our roster is a perfect storm of draft busts, underachieving overpaid old vets, invisible free agents and no names. BROWNIEEEEES!!!

You can't help but laugh. Exciting game. Avoided a meaningless victory. Pure entertainment. Good stuff. LOL

No, but a modicum of understanding to those of us who still care is expected...

Nah man, that's factoring in last year when we were winning the first half of the season. I would say we are more like 1 win to 5 losses at this point.

smh, one game closer to the first overall selection..

The game was entertaining, and I feel dirty that I rooted for a loss.

So I'm not supposed to say how I feel because it might hurt your feelings?

Not going to happen.

Keeps Bosa out of Baltimore

Don't worry the moral victory crew will show up soon

How bad is this football team? The coaching, the front office..,. embarrassing.

Yea, and then what did he do when he had to build the team?? After that, Tampa bay was crap!!.. He is in the booth, making money talking about football. He is not leaving that!!

I didn't laugh. I did roll my eyes and said, 'Figures'.

we battled.
there are some good things that happened.
beer hasnt gone up.
the new jerseys have the same effect..who would of known?

Because our one and ONLY hope is that Haslam fires Farmer and stumbles upon a decent GM. If he keeps Farmboy and Pettine then yes we are doomed and who cares where we draft....

Give me a break, everyone's sanity has went over the edge of a cliff watching this team. All we can do is laugh at this point.

Dude, if this game had any meaning at all, I'd have been ticked.. but the blocked FG returned for a TD has happened like 6 times in 5 years.. and the Browns lose on one on MNF? Come on, you have to laugh at that.

Exactly. Keeping Farmer will seal it for me. The Browns will be dead to me. I will remember them fondly from the days they were competitive.

So you'd rather have Pettine? Or some no name never heard of him coordinator? I'd much rather have a has been than a never was. And I LIKE Grudens attitude. He's fiery.

Haslam is drowning in money. There is NO salary cap on staff. Make Gruden an offer he can't refuse. Start at 15 million a year. If he says no, keep upping it until he says yes.

You overstate my position. let me be clear: You are rubbing salt in the face of those who still care. Ah, whatever...

Let me give you a serious comment. Our defense is soft, SOFT, SOFT.. we don't tackle anybody going backwards. We don't punish anybody. Every 3 yard gain turns into a 6 yard gain because we try to drag people to the ground as they lunge forward. Our DBs dive at players legs, hoping to get in their way and trip them up.

Even the Ravens, depleted as they were, when we caught an out route or a pass across the middle, we got hit, went backwards, and went down... when they did it, we tried as best we could to drag them down after about 5 more yards..

It's pathetic. We don't freakin' hit ANYBODY.

That sums it up!!!

Honestly, I think Haslam is in over his head as well, he may as well sell the team to Gilbert.

People forget that Haslam ONLY HAD a 5% stake in Pittsburgh. That not enough to even get invited to the meetings!!

I laughed. How does that imply I don't care about this team? I wanted a win tonight and I was entertained by a good game, but that was a tragically funny way to lose. The improbability is astounding. The block is one thing but the walk off return is so unlikely to happen that I laughed in a sad 'only in Cleveland'kind of way. After all the negativity this year, sitting at 2-8, first MNF game in Cleveland since Holcomb was QB and we lose like that. If was funny and my honest in the moment reaction was laughter.

Absolutely agree with that comment. Our tackling leaves a lot to be desired...

This is correct. And I highly doubt he was there for an extended period of time to see how the franchise was truly run.

PUKE!!!

The loss sucked, I admit, but lets face it - we're one step closer to getting the #1 pick. Something that we truly need to get things turned back around right now.

#ByCrookforCook

j/c....

Anyone else following Lane Adkins or Joe Lull on Twitter at the moment? If so, it sounds like this FO is a complete mess and a bomb is about to drop. What a franchise.

I don't see how this is about Haslam... Farmer had a track record, Pettine had a track record.. and we are the least physical team I've ever seen.. Is Jimmy supposed to be out at practice making people hit each other? I don't know WHY we play so timid on defense, and it's not just one or two guys, its across the board, we just don't play with any attitude at all..

Farmer had a track record as a GM prior to being hired by the Browns? Haslam has a lot to do with this because he's the one who hired the people in place currently, and he's the one who set the previous precedent by firing someone after a year (when it may or may not have been justified is up for debate).

Farmer was an up and coming GM as viewed by other teams. Did he have a track record as a successful GM? No.. was he viewed as a good potential GM candidate? Yes he was.

If only the Dolphins hired Farmer as their GM. Things would be so different.

i just got back home from the game.

man, after i dropped my boy off....i almost cried in the car. if we would've got blown out...whatever.

but the way we lose....it's just so heart breaking man. it's like we're cursed. it's like the NFL is making the cleveland fans pay for whatever sins we have committed. what did we do to deserve this?

man, at the game, fans we're cheering when McCown got hurt, chanting johnny's name, then booed when Davis came in.

and then the end of the game....it was so silent man...so silent...people started crying....i dunno. this loss really sucks.

pettin got his guy in the game..farmer and haslem didnt. pettin lost with pettin`s poor time management.

dont expect pettin to last the year.

https://twitter.com/xphenomenal1/status/671557496067203072

Miserable is the word I come up with here a couple hours after the game. The same word I used over and over during the game.

We have a miserable defensive line - couldn't stop the run or rush the passer. That's their damn job. Terrance flipping West ran with ease against us.

Our special teams were miserable tonight. Almost had the punt blocked 2 times, and I won't even talk about the field goal attempt.

Miserable and predictable run plays. It was obvious to me most of the night when we were going to run and where we were going to run. There was one exception where we play action passed it...

Tramon Williams - miserable excuse for a CB.

Miserable tackling - I think Tirico even said it, and he's just a talking head that mostly seems to go from a script.

Schwartz got owned by Dumervil a couple times, and Erving was, well...miserable.

That being said - Josh looked good minus a couple plays, and the same with Davis. I liked Davis' poise overall, but that last play and slide frustrated the heck out of me. Take 10 less seconds and run out of bounds and we had 2 more plays. Benjamin, Barnidge, Hartline, and Duke were all pretty good, at least from what I saw on tv. It is hard to tell how they did off the ball.

Oh well, a top 5 pick is what we'll end up with as a consolation prize.

LOL!

That is a fact. To add to it, on defense we are SLOW. I mean really slow. So soft and slow and we don't hit anybody. Especially opposing quarterbacks. Another game where we went without a sack. 11 games, 16 sacks. One game we had 7. So aside from that game we are averaging under 1 sack per. It doesn't get much worse.

And you trust Farmer to make that first overall selection....and have it matter. I don't.

Can you say TJ Ward?

Pettine and company are finding new and unique ways of losing football games, I'll give them that. Tonight was an NFL first. Not many of those left eh? I've been a fan since 1967.Thought I'd seen it all..... nope.
I am certain that final play will make the NFL films football follies.... To live on forever as well it should....

that was the Brownest thing that's happened all year.

IF Farmer is making that pick, then it doesn't matter.

I cannot imagine that Haslam is dumb enough to waste another draft on this moron, though.

It's at least a little bit about Haslam. He hired Banner and Lombardi. Then bailed on Chud after one season, then after the coaching search bails on Banner and Lombardi. Then promotes Farmer. Talk about a cluster ....

He really needs to find a President of Football operations and just hand the football side over to him. Not many of those guys available though....

I do know he needs to hire a head coach that has at the very least done SOMETHING in the past. Gruden, Cowher, Billick all have won rings. Harbaugh took the Niners to the SB.... There are others as well. At least they have experience. They aren't likely to choke with the clock running out. Or run the ball with 8 seconds left when you haven't tried running much all night. I would like to have a great coaching staff here in Cleveland someday but I would kill for mere COMPETENCE in the immediate future.

Here's a thought. Hire Polian as President and bring in his son as GM. No they aren't perfect, but they are a damned sight better than what we have at the moment. Let them hire a coach, hopefully an experienced one, and get this thing on track. If we have to blow up the roster, so be it. Whatever it takes to make whatever this is.... END.

Would Ron Wolf and his son apply as well?

This whole team owes it's fan base an apology.I can't remember when I have seen a team that gets paid good money look this bad across the board.As much as I hate to say it we need to clean house and start all over once again.I am finding it hard to find anything positive about this team.

went to bed at halftime ... woke up JUST as the kick was blocked ... said to myself "WTF?" ... took me a few seconds to realize what just happened ... typical Browns

our pass offense looked good ... our rush offense is non existent

our clock management leaves a little to be desired LOL

Referees missed apparent penalty that would have nullified Ravens' stunning 'kick-six' win

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/1/9825602/ravens-browns-ending-block-kick-six-refs-blown-call

I have little doubt that we may finish up the season "mailing-in" the points. Emotionally, this had to be a crushing defeat...

of course

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/1/9825602/ravens-browns-ending-block-kick-six-refs-blown-call

Referees missed apparent penalty that would have nullified Ravens' stunning 'kick-six' win



The Ravens beat the Browns, 33-27, thanks to a game-winning kick-six in one of the most absurd endings to Monday Night Football imaginable. It was a stunning turn of events after the Browns lined up for a game-winning kick with a kicker who had never missed a field goal in his career.

Baltimore's Brent Urban blocked the kick in perfectly legal fashion, but his teammate Anthony Levine Jr. appeared to be lined up offsides prior to the kick. Levine initially jumped too early, but recovered in time to not be flagged for encroachment. While he got set again, he lined up with his hand and head in the neutral zone.

Levine did not have an impact on the play and Urban would have blocked the kick whether Levine had lined up onside or not. Even still, it's pretty obvious he should have been flagged for being in the neutral zone.

Ravens penalty

Had he correctly been flagged the block and the subsequent game-winning return would have been nullified. Instead the Browns would have had another chance to win, this time from 46 yards.

If you want to dig even further into a potential referee oversight, there is grainy footage leading some to believe Will Hill stepped out of bounds on the return. That part, unlike Levine being offsides, is much less clear.

While it appears the Browns got the short end of things this time, the Ravens were finally on the beneficial side of a refereeing error, having previously been on the wrong side of things earlier this season. This is the second time the Browns have been on the wrong side of a call like this. They were flagged for being offsides against San Diego, giving the Chargers a second chance at the win after a miss.

if you click on the link there are photos

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 4h4 hours ago

#Browns McCown probably done for year with possible broken collarbone, source says. Will they go back to Manziel? http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ny_manziel.html …

yet again...

the ref's owe us an apology. that's at least 2 games (i think 3) we should have won but the refs interfered.

I didn't notice the offsides during the game, as I had the false impression we were gonna pull this one out and hit the field goal. Silly me.

Our bad luck! And yet we get called (a few games ago) for a phantom offsides. Good luck happens to good teams; bad luck, well...

Actually, that was kind of a fun game to watch except for the last 3 seconds. Damn, seems as if we always find a way to lose.

Good teams don't do that.

I'm telling you, I was joking about it yesterday, but something is up with Gruden. His comments and that smirk on his face when he spoke of "Jimmy getting it right" was just too much.

I think it's very possible that he'll be out next HC.

Just thinking out loud

I think Gruden has been in the press box far too long to be a coach again. I think he was smirking because he knows he is stirring the pot and our team just sucks and has a long history of suckage.

I noticed it immediately. There was an audible reaction from the stadium when the dude jumped. He's allowed to reset himself but if either Dray, Shwartz, or Erving had just stood up and touched him it would have got us the flag. I didn't notice that he apparently never got completely reset onsides...or that the returner may have stepped out (I thought all scoring plays were reviewed...)

Oh yeah, that could also be true.. I think we'll find out in about 5 weeks or so.

Anyway, I thought for the little he played, Davis wasn't horrid at all. He might be the best QB we have.

And no head problems...LOL

It was a better game than I expected. Davis was better than expected.
I did laugh at the end, at this point what else can you do?

I was sure the returner stepped out last night. Isn't this the 5th or 6th Monday night game with a huge ref screw up?

REF screw ups don't count when they are against us, the Browns would still find another way to lose.

YES!
The 'holy grail' of quality coaching.

Just like Rob Ryan and Todd Grantham.

Back when Browns football was so much more fun to watch. Those guys really had our boys fired up... and ready to win.

Yeah... we gotta get this guy.

Right here, folks... the post of the thread. This bad boy should be on lockdown now. Can't do better than this.


Well-played.

Another great reaction

https://twitter.com/shootermcgavin_/status/671557699256078336

Gotta agree, that is top shelf stuff right there.

While I am starting to think the refs wanted to get home early last night, if a team is leaving themselves open for a ref's mistake to cost them the game, they aren't playing well enough.

As a lifetime Bills fan, I can understand the suffering, but honest to God when I saw that happen I thought not even the Bills could pull that off...

Here is something that may have been missed...why didn't the Cleveland player jump up when the Baltimore player jumped into the neutral zone like they are trained to do? It was a free 5 yards and would have prevented all of this controversy with him still being in the neutral zone and Hill possibly stepping out of bounds. As Bills fans know, when you leave it up to the refs, you will get burnt many times...

j/c:

I haven't read all the posts, but there are pictures out there showing the runner clearly out of bounds on the TD run.

The refs didn't even review the score......

Two things, one you're assuming they were coached up, not sure that assumption can be made, second the refs would only have flagged us and moved it back 5 more yards anyway.

But that's the whole point...once Baltimore jumped into the neutral zone, all one of the Browns players had to do was false start and it's a guaranteed penalty for a neutral zone infraction. Teams do that all the time now.

The play never should have even happened...

Man, I am so done with this line of reasoning, I can't possibly overstate it. Seriously Dawg.... what makes you think that this sorryazz franchise will do ANYTHING with a #1 pick? We've been picking in the top seven draft spots for FIFTEEN FREAKKIN YEARS and have what to show for it?

The only thing a true #1 pick will guarantee is that you'll feel even worse than you already do when he either:

1. pulls a LeCharles Bentley in TC
2. takes the Ernie Davis route.

#1 pick?
Yeah... like that's gonna turn this whole thing around....

All scoring plays are automatically reviewed. At NFL HQ?

that happened to us earlier in the year on that interception against Oakland on that Woodson interception. They wouldn't even review it.

the refs refuse to review the last play of the game.

Allegedly.

https://twitter.com/SN_Ohio/status/671559859356213248

About sums it up for me.. I almost cried myself ... embarrassed to say.

Damn what fates did we insult to go through this over and over again.

I understand the gallows humor... but I cant bring myself to even chuckle at this loss.... all I can do is smh

Thanks, t-l-d. I knew I wasn't the only one feeling that way...

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE

Aside from 3 items, all attributable to lack of reps, Austin Davis looked good. One of his early passes the receiver broke the other way than he expected, on anther he threw behind the receiver, and he should have run out of bounds rather than sliding. But he moved well in the pocket, and the 2 long passes to Benji were pinpoint ropes.

McCown has earned our respect, but he is beat up. We need to see what we have in JFF, but if not, lets see what we have in Davis. So far, I like it.

I thought Davis was no better or worse than what I've seen out of Manziel. Those few series are little help in any evaluation. Seeing as Manziel seems bound and determined to end his career early, I'd like to get a better look at Davis.

Thanks for the photo! It's impossible to be sure from that angle whether he's in-bounds or not...

I give McCown props for hanging in there and wanting to do right by the players/franchise/fans ... I'll never question his heart or will

But he's done for the year and maybe for his career ... the dude just can't stay on the field and his body is breaking down

Time for us to play Davis IMO (because playing Johnny doesn't seem to be likely with Pet)

What a bunch of BS.

don't forget the block in the back on Coons

in Vegas

Against us, it is called The Fix is in. Staggering number of mistakes.

aren't they required to review all scoring plays? Or did I just imagine that?

NFL added a ref this year and the officiating got worse. Most of the time, these referees appear to be attention-whores looking for exposure on national TV, but in this case they all swallowed their whistles. The officiating needs to be addressed by the league, because their game is becoming a joke.

See Memphis's post above...

Boo hoo.....Would not have mattered. We'd still find a way to beat ourselves.

they have already admitted they blew a call in the Titans/Raiders game that cost the titans the game. I doubt they admit to blowing 2 games in the same week. We will not get the apology Tennessee did... also partially because we are a joke, the laughing stock of the NFL.. nobody is going to care if we got screwed because we do so much to screw ourselves, nobody will notice.

I guess we benefit with the loss.

As for the scoring TD...
1. We should have made a 10 yd pass over the middle called TO instead we run up the middle and lose a yard.

2. Hill? 33? Stepped out of bounds on the blocked FG around the 30. Didnt look like it from behind a little and high but from the camera angle from our end zone looking at him run towards it...his foot clearly stepped out of bounds...not even close.

Of course the Browns gets snubbed once again as they are suppose to review all TDs especially game winners...instead they closed their tablets and said THAT'S A WRAP! Didn't even think of reviewing it. All too busy congratulating the Ravens for the win.

Which they would have had anyways at the expense of more embarrassment. The final gun shot was in mercy.

It felt good watching the Browns "battle" back into this game. They didn't give up.


I am glad they lost tho. I did not want them to get the FG.

Woke up this morning, giving no cares to what happened last night. We need the #1 pick.

We'll be happier come April.

One player is not going to fix the Browns.

I agree.

Neither was getting to 3-8... you have to start somewhere.

But you have to start somewhere, yes? It may as well be with the first pick in the draft. Just don't blow it.

That's a pretty big caveat emptor isn't it?

The odds of choosing a bust at #1 is much less than, say, 5. Not impossible, but much less.

Id rather let my new front office select any college player eligible to restart the team.

With Farmer, yeah it is, but he should be gone the Monday after the last game.

It seemed to me like we could pass all night on the Ravens garbage secondary.

It also seemed to me like they could pass all night on our garbage secondary.

So it came down to coaching and making one play.

And we made the play, twice. Davis with the TD pass, Williams with the INT... then we remembered that we are the Browns. Nobody remembers the plays you DID make if you don't make the one that ultimately wins the game.

For BpG, Here is your example of Ozzie schooling Farmer in the draft. A 4th round injury stash (who IIRC Django was all over... Urban was one of his favorites in that class) makes his first appearance after a year and a half, splits your two first round draft choices to change the game winning field goal into the game losing field goal.

Im on board make an offer until we get one of these coaches that's been to the show on board. Gruden, Cowher. Josh McDaniels is probably going to be a great one coming from the Belichick tree. Anything is better than a no name, no idea, and no clue how to coach a football team person! Spirit is correct Jimmy is drowning in cash so we cant afford a great coach is not an excuse! The only way to get a great coach to come here is to pay them! So Jimmy get on the phone and get off your wallet!! Because after last night its getting a lot tougher to be a Browns fan!

My post game comment? I'm glad I fell asleep shortly into the 3rd haha.

So did I. Thankfully I was recording it and watched the end this morning at 5:00.

No, but the #1 drafting position is for 7 rounds. Combine that with the compensatory picks the Browns have coming, and the fact that NE has lost their 1st round pick, and it gives the Browns a very good position from which to draft or trade. IF, and it's a huge if, the Browns can get out of their own way and draft well, this could be a very good draft. Of course we've said that the last 2 years, each of which given us 2 first round picks which have been largely wasted, hence the huge IF.

I hate zebras. But shame on the team that leaves it up to them. We had more than enough other chances. This loss sucked at about 300,000,000 psi.

Gomer Pyle: "Shame, shame, shame!"

They have better garbage and better tackling apparently.

I loathe myself for being jealous.

Thank God.

Not making excuses for this loss.....simply put, the Browns couldn't get out of their own way.

There was one huge missed PI on the Ravens right in front of me in the end zone as well. Think it was Benji.

This is exactly why it should never be left to the last play of the game to determine the outcome

True. We sure wouldn't want to draft a franchise QB. A guy like a young Manning or Brady wouldn't help us one little bit.

He has a ring. Does dimwit Pettine? But sure lets keep dumbass. I do LOVE this defense. It's perfect in every way.
Or we could hire yet another no name coordinator who's never been a head coach. That's worked great for us in the past.... lmmfao. Sue me for wanting a head coach that has actually done the job before. And WON. Nope. Can't have that in Cleveland. We like coaches that have no experience. They produce seasons like this. What could be better?

Looks like someone has the case of the Tuesdays.

Why can't I not watch the Browns games? This team makes me sick to my stomach....that is all

That is poor low red photo. Watching the replay he did not look out of bounds at all. That is a poor angle, and his foot may not even be on the ground yet in it. On the offsides, one of our guys should have jumped. You can't depend on the line that TV puts up, as they say it is not the official line. One of guys jump, easy 5 yard penalty.

Reminder:

This was our defense coming off of a bye week with two weeks of game planning.

Correct. They gave up 20 points. With WHO in the defensive back field?

Absolutely could've played better, no doubt.

We gave up nearly five yards per carry, got no pressure on the QB, and Matt Schaub picked us apart on some drives. Our defense was also about as predictable as it gets.

The spent the bye week practicing what they do worst to perfection!

Maybe they should have went with johnny.

This is as good a place as any to own up to being against signing Josh McCown, and being wrong about him. Guy has put himself on the line all season long, staying in when he was hurt and doing everything he could to win. We need about 45 more guys with McCown's work ethic, dedication to team, and sheer guts. I was a Hoyer fan and I wanted him re-signed, but Josh has made me a fan for life, wins and losses aside. I salute him and wish him a quick recovery.

A couple of things about those two pics.

In the top pic, it's possible that Hill's foot has not yet touched the ground so what we are seeing is his foot in the air, but instead the angle makes it look like it is on the ground out of bounds.

In the bottom pic, does anyone find it odd that the players farthest away are huge and the players closest to us are tiny? That plus the black line is exactly lined up with the edge of the yard markers yet it is not lined up evenly with the white stripe. That pic is so distorted I don't know if anything about it is conclusive.

Dub is absolutely correct. I just took these shots from my TV.

The pic you've seen with Coons down, facing us.



Now four frames later.

I felt the same way, but I don't see us being happier in April. That's when the new "out of touch GM" and "inexperienced coach" take over, trade down from the first or second spot to stockpile draft picks to rebuild this ridiculous excuse for a team. Instead of picking a few quality players we'll get a dozen or so mediocre players, including one or two early round busts, so we can have the same crap team and dysfunctional organization that we've had for over a decade and a half. We'll struggle for two years wondering how a pro team can possibly be so freaking awful, and we'll marvel at all the amazing and novel ways they find to lose. At this stage, the team moves from being a comical joke to the world to simply becoming irrelevant, not even worth discussing on the most minor level. Then when the two years are up, rinse and repeat. Nope, don't see us being much happier in April.

Pretty much case closed, unfortunately.

Or fortunately if you are going on draft position.

Not trying to be rude here guys, but who cares if the refs blew a call or not?

Sad as it is to say/admit, but we could only hope to get more bad calls to ensure our losing streak continues. This season is toast, the best possible outcome is a high first round pick, and losing will get us there.

Thank you. I don't know how you did it (the 4 frames later pic) but I'm glad to have seen it.

wow, amazing how a different angle or view can change the story. It really shows how easily the mind can be manipulated.

I would wager numerous people would agree with you, which really shows how far the franchise has fallen.

I have a directv dvr, you can pause the video then use the fast forward button while paused to step frame the video or move it one frame for each press. The pictures, I just grabbed with my cell phone.

Thanks! Maybe I can do the same with my TWC DVR, if the need ever arises again.

#threadender

[Bard drops mic]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.
Now I sound all smart, and stuff.
Couldn't have done it without you.



#debate101dropout

Fun.



https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/672477507854204928

lol, rolled him right under that bus.

So is that officially three coaches taking swipes at each other? It might be four.

That's like saying, "I'm not a snitch, he did it".

WOW!

This reminds me of this meme:

I still can't believe it. Mulled around all the possible scenarios post game. What were the odds? I've seen so many pics of the offsides, the out of bounds and the block in the back, to wonder where the refs were? I can understand a missed call but three missed calls on a play with such consequences? Ahhhh...gave up. The what-ifs have been driving me crazy. Let's come back strong and whoop some tigger butt!

The off sides pic was photoshopped, and in the oob pic, the runner's foot was actually in the air.

It definitely looks like that was the case.

Think about how angry guys like Flip and McConnell must feel knowing that their incompetent head coach is going to get them fired and force them to move their families again. We often forget about the personal side to all of this. These guys are going to have to find new jobs, sell houses, buy new houses, uproot spouses and kids. Basically start over. Because their head coach is a moron.

DeFilippo and O'Connell seem to be highly competent. I hope whoever the new coach is keeps both of them.

And you want to keep Flip because ?

He is a first year offensive coordinator who walked into a horrible situation. Our offense has looked very good at times. That is worth another look to me.

Ok , I can see that , but explain to me the running game ( lack of ) .. Attempts ( while we are still in the game ) and the play of this killer ( satire ) OL of ours . Do you expect to see some type of improvement in the last few games ? I could use some uplifting insight right about now .

I have no answer. Our offensive line and running backs have been bad, but we completely abandon the run almost every game. We did the same the one year when Norv Turner was here. I don't expect a change the last few games, if we know anything about this coaching staff it's that they're stubborn.

Flip's offense isn't offensive. He draws up productive plays. At least pass plays.

But he's a terrible play caller. Doesn't understand momentum or situational football or establishing an identity. He outsmarts himself way too much.

However, I think he's inexperienced and has shown promise for a first time OC. I also enjoy his pressers. Him and Tabor sound intelligent. Pettine and O'Neil don't.

I think Flip has a bright future in the league, maybe even as a head coach. If he was retained I wouldn't mind, but you would hope he would learn from his mistakes this year and improve upon them in year 2. That's always a question mark. Pettine is a perfect example. He regressed in year 2 because of a big head and believing he has more power than he actually does.

Now McConnell has done an amazing job. I hope he is retained. I expect Davis to play well tomorrow.

I bet he would look a lot better with a head coach who had a clue.

Also, it's O'Connell, not McConnell.

LOL. Why do I keep typing McConnell?

McDonald's has the McRib back and you're hungry?

Disagree w/you about Flip. He abandons the run game way too early. We don't have an identity. He tries too hard to outsmart people. We are schizophrenic on offense. Nothing to hang out hat on. The blocking schemes have digressed. Call this, call that, craziness.

Abandon the run? What RB should they featured Johnson or Crowel? I am about done with Crowel. I am not sure Johnson can stay healthy being an every down back.

It is hard understanding why so many teams struggle developing RBs. It is amazing a good RB can be obtain anywhere in the draft, which was a point you made back in May. My only theory teams must weigh usage in college before considering. Schools like Bama and Wisconsin really over use these kids. RBs are getting almost as scientific as receivers so many variables.

It is a mute point since it was never an option. I still say Gurly would have looked good in a brown and orange uniform!

This is not an insult, but we have fundamental differences about the importance of running the ball.

Apparently, you think a team should only run the ball if they have a great RB and our always posting big numbers w/most running plays.

I, on the other hand, think that you have to stick w/the run even if it is not producing big numbers. I believe this because it actually helps your passing game.

Btw bro..........it's not a "mute point." Mute means silence or something similar. It's a "moot" point, which I believe means it either is open for debate or in more recent times, it means that the point is pretty much irrelevant and/or carries very little practical importance.

If I am wrong..........I'm sure someone will correct me. If I am right, no one will say anything other than perhaps that I am an English snob and that has no place on a message board.

blush...yep...I meant moot point...Thanks! My meaning Rams took Gurly before Browns had any opportunity. He shows flashes of Dickerson. You know RBs...fun to watch!

As for the offense, I believe in balance. I never thought possible. The 2015 run game is worst than 2013. Browns offense became one dimensional. It could be play calling or play design. Whatever it is RBs appear running into walls. You can run so many plays bailing when you fall behind.

Watching Crowel run the football you think the field is made of sand! Johnson simply can't stay healthy. He must learn how to avoid direct hits. Otherwise, he won't last long in the league.

I do think Browns have a more pressing need getting a RB over a receiver. As for fundamental difference, I do believe I'm lone wolf thinking the RB should setup the receiving game. Yep, it is not debatable...I'm old school here! But, I do understand advantages with today's game. I'm not naive thinking throwing the football is not a statistical advantage. I also believe the tide is changing where teams can build a offense around the RB. Guys like Duke Johnson...thinking Gregg Pruit...can be a player of emphasis. Defenses are over built to stop the passing game. Teams who can stay balanced will surly take advantage.

Nice post. We disagree on why the running game is failing, but I like how you presented your argument.

You're a good dude, bugs.

Thanks! It's fun talking football. Actually, I prefer a nice cold beer...beers...with dudes talking football.

You watching the Iowa/Mich St game? Iowa QB, Beathard, caught my interest. I suck judging QBs, but I like! I hope he stays in school one more year to fine tune.

You must have missed the part where we agreed.

I'm just willing to see if he can get better.