Garrett is a complete physical freak but I don't think he's absent bust potential. Don't get me wrong... He's the first overall pick- no ifs, ands, or buts. And I'll be happy to see him in brown and orange
BUT if someone gave us a sweet package to move down a hair (still top 10) I think I'd take it.
Here's what McFarland said about Garrett during the show, via The Big Lead:
“I haven’t always seen the athleticism turn into playmaking ability on the football field, nor have I seen the physicality. To me, that’s the one question I have. So, in a day and age where we’re all watching the Combine saying, ‘Hey there he is, he’s the number 1 pick, best player ever,’ I’m just a little hesitant. And I always take a step back — because I’ve seen the guy play football — he is a tremendous athlete.
“But being an athlete doesn’t make you a football player. Ask Mike Mamula, who tore up the Combine but couldn’t break an egg in the NFL. I’m not saying Myles Garrett is gonna do that, but I just look at the tape — and the tape never lies, Greeny — and the tape has said that although he is a tremendous athlete, I just wonder how much does he love playing defensive line and being hit and the collisions that take place time after time. The tape says he’s been hesitant to do that over the last couple years.”
Here's what McFarland said about Garrett during the show, via The Big Lead:
“I haven’t always seen the athleticism turn into playmaking ability on the football field, nor have I seen the physicality. To me, that’s the one question I have. So, in a day and age where we’re all watching the Combine saying, ‘Hey there he is, he’s the number 1 pick, best player ever,’ I’m just a little hesitant. And I always take a step back — because I’ve seen the guy play football — he is a tremendous athlete.
“But being an athlete doesn’t make you a football player. Ask Mike Mamula, who tore up the Combine but couldn’t break an egg in the NFL. I’m not saying Myles Garrett is gonna do that, but I just look at the tape — and the tape never lies, Greeny — and the tape has said that although he is a tremendous athlete, I just wonder how much does he love playing defensive line and being hit and the collisions that take place time after time. The tape says he’s been hesitant to do that over the last couple years.”
The bolded parts .... thats what i see also ... u see a physical freak with mad ass skills ... and on some plays your like ... HOLY CRAP I can't believe what i just saw ... then the next 5 plays I'd wonder what the hell he was doing ... it was like he wanted to play patty cake with the OLman as opposed to going around him or moving him ... the way he engaged his blockers on a lot of plays was eerily similiar to one Courtney Brown ...
He's going to be a Brown .. so i hope what I'm seeing is a mirage ... if not, he's going to be good .. just not the difference maker most think ...
I wonder if he is going to be like clowney.... Clowney was similar to that his last year at South Carolina... And then his first years at Houston he had issues with injuries... But this year has taken off...
I think Garrett has the tools to be a great edge rusher... But he needs the right situation with some good leadership.... Not sure if we have it but worth taking a shot...
My only concern with Garrett is his maturity. Not lack of maturity but the fact that he acts, talks and even looks like a guy thats 40 not 21. I wanta see a birth certificate before draft day lol
It's hard to fault the guys who have great motors and easy to seethe POTENTIAL for a bust with the ones who don't have that type of motor. I'll take a guy with less athletic ability but who love the game and don't know how to stop over an athletic freak who's desire and motor are questioned. I liked Allen at 1 for awhile then the shoulders became an issue. Now I think you almost have to go with Garrett, just don't see anyone pushing him for the #1 overall pick.
Consistency is all I ask for from Garrett if we draft him. I think some of you expect one player to make a play every down. Just not realistic, especially in the NFL.
This is sorta the year having the #1 overall when a De is considered the best player is a crappy position to be in.
I'd really like to see the Browns trade out of #1 and move down 3-4 spots, maybe pick up an additional pick or two. This draft is deep on defense, and Hooker just screams "Ed Reed" to me. I think Hooker makes a far bigger impact on the Browns, even long term...he is a Reed ballhawking kinda safety and the NFL being a pass happy league a guy like him is simply going to be a big time playmaker...he will be the best safety we have had since Eric Turner.
The Browns need value right now, and honestly, moving down makes the most sense for us if we can from straight value perspective...Garret isn't going to really change the W or L column. We will still be able to get a big time player at 3 or 4, but gain additional picks in a draft deep at Rb and defense simply sounds like a win-win to me.
This is sorta the year having the #1 overall when a De is considered the best player is a crappy position to be in.
I'd really like to see the Browns trade out of #1 and move down 3-4 spots, maybe pick up an additional pick or two. This draft is deep on defense, and Hooker just screams "Ed Reed" to me. I think Hooker makes a far bigger impact on the Browns, even long term...he is a Reed ballhawking kinda safety and the NFL being a pass happy league a guy like him is simply going to be a big time playmaker...he will be the best safety we have had since Eric Turner.
The Browns need value right now, and honestly, moving down makes the most sense for us if we can from straight value perspective...Garret isn't going to really change the W or L column. We will still be able to get a big time player at 3 or 4, but gain additional picks in a draft deep at Rb and defense simply sounds like a win-win to me.
WHAT???
Your Trubisky man crush is starting to be ridiculous, unless you are from his family or agent.
None of this crap w/ Garrett going on this week sways me. I say get him.
HOWEVER, if we traded down and somehow still got Adams, Hooker, and whatever else, I would be just as happy. But what are the odds of pulling that off?
None of this crap w/ Garrett going on this week sways me. I say get him.
HOWEVER, if we traded down and somehow still got Adams, Hooker, and whatever else, I would be just as happy. But what are the odds of pulling that off?
We are without any shadow of doubt the worst franchise drafting, so for anyone to trade with us its because they know better than us.
This is sorta the year having the #1 overall when a De is considered the best player is a crappy position to be in.
I'd really like to see the Browns trade out of #1 and move down 3-4 spots, maybe pick up an additional pick or two. This draft is deep on defense, and Hooker just screams "Ed Reed" to me. I think Hooker makes a far bigger impact on the Browns, even long term...he is a Reed ballhawking kinda safety and the NFL being a pass happy league a guy like him is simply going to be a big time playmaker...he will be the best safety we have had since Eric Turner.
The Browns need value right now, and honestly, moving down makes the most sense for us if we can from straight value perspective...Garret isn't going to really change the W or L column. We will still be able to get a big time player at 3 or 4, but gain additional picks in a draft deep at Rb and defense simply sounds like a win-win to me.
That's ridiculous. We are SO LUCKY to have the #1 pick this year. An edge rusher like Garrett doesn't come out every year or even every other year. Last year we had 26 sacks as a team, tied for second-fewest and only one more than last place Oakland who had 25. We gave up the most passign touchdowns (36) in the league and had few (10) interceptions. Garrett is what this team needs as much as anything that's not a quarterback.
None of this crap w/ Garrett going on this week sways me. I say get him.
HOWEVER, if we traded down and somehow still got Adams, Hooker, and whatever else, I would be just as happy. But what are the odds of pulling that off?
We are without any shadow of doubt the worst franchise drafting, so for anyone to trade with us its because they know better than us.
Say no to Trades
#1 - You are holding the sins of past front offices (and coaching staffs) against the current front office.
That's ridiculous. We are SO LUCKY to have the #1 pick this year. An edge rusher like Garrett doesn't come out every year or even every other year. Last year we had 26 sacks as a team, tied for second-fewest and only one more than last place Oakland who had 25. We gave up the most passign touchdowns (36) in the league and had few (10) interceptions. Garrett is what this team needs as much as anything that's not a quarterback.
Agree, Steve this is one of if not the strongest draft classes I have seen period. there will be players going in the 3rd this year that would have been top 20 last year. We get the best of the best.
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Cleveland "has not made up its mind" with the No. 1 overall pick, and some Browns executives like Myles Garrett while others prefer Mitchell Trubisky. Additionally, Schefter had an NFL executive text him to "not be surprised" if Texas A&M's Garrett is not selected with the top pick. Garrett has been the overwhelming favorite to be the first player off the board to the Browns for months now, but Trubisky appears to be picking up steam. Cleveland obviously is desperate for a quarterback, but it would be hard to see them passing on Garrett.
Related: Browns Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Apr 11 - 9:36 PM
I'm gonna get flack for this but what exactly makes Garrett a "generational player"? He is a superb athlete(with some question marks, he's not without faults or concerns), he has good but not stellar production, he doesn't have any off-field issues, but other then being such an exceptional athlete I don't see him as a Lawrence Taylor or Bruce smith type of talent. I just don't see the same dominance or impact plays that those guys showed almost every time they stepped onto the field. I see a very good athlete who has to be more consistent and show some more fire on the field. So please tell me what it is i'm missing in his tape.
I'm gonna get flack for this but what exactly makes Garrett a "generational player"? He is a superb athlete(with some question marks, he's not without faults or concerns), he has good but not stellar production, he doesn't have any off-field issues, but other then being such an exceptional athlete I don't see him as a Lawrence Taylor or Bruce smith type of talent. I just don't see the same dominance or impact plays that those guys showed almost every time they stepped onto the field. I see a very good athlete who has to be more consistent and show some more fire on the field. So please tell me what it is i'm missing in his tape.
I think to really get a grip on Garrett you can't just watch his games. You have to watch the teams that faced him in other games to get a sense of how much they adjust what they do to account for him.
I think Garrett is the best prospect in the draft. I don't think that there is a box that he doesn't check as far as can he do it.
I'll admit I do have a nagging thought of could this be a Vernon Gholston situation, but I think that's mainly a result of being a Browns fan. I somewhat expect things to go badly no matter what they do.
I see the reasons some people question his motor, but I'm not sure it's really a good argument. With the increased use of the hurry up, should 270+ lb. Linemen be chasing skill players 20+ yards across the field play after play? Can you explode at the snap and disrupt plays if you are constantly winded? Where does he make his money? You pick Garrett to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage.
Sure a guy can run all over the place and look really active. If that causes what you are counting on him for to suffer, though, is it really productive?
I think the big saying in New England is "Do your job." What Garrett does, he does well. It's not really his job to run and chase down the field. His job is to affect the QB, disrupt plays in the backfield, and keep guys from getting to the outside on his side of the field.
Browns worried about Myles Garrett’s football IQ after he expresses desire to play for them
(SP) – The Cleveland Browns say they are continuing to look at various options with the No. 1 overall pick and admit they have cooled a bit on Myles Garrett after the Texas A&M defensive end expressed a strong desire to play for the team.
“Obviously Myles is an impressive player with a lot of upside,” said Browns general manager Sashi Brown. “That said, football I.Q. is a big part of what we evaluate in a player and we are growing concerned it’s just not there for him.”
Garrett repeatedly proclaimed this week that he would “punish” the Browns if they don’t use the top pick on him, telling ESPN: “I’m gonna start winning and winning now. And because if you don’t draft me No. 1, I will punish your team for the next 10 to 12 years. I’ll knock your QB out of the game every time we play you, and I’ll have to kick the hell out of No. 1, whoever it is.”
Cleveland’s GM said that he “appreciates” Garrett’s enthusiasm, “but that’s just not realistic for him to say. Best case scenario with the Browns, we win in three or four years, not now. And the idea that he will punish us if we don’t draft him? Laughable. We’re the Browns. We ruin the careers of people we do draft. Come on.”
With Garrett likely off the board, the Browns are set to move onto someone a bit more grounded in reality.
“We want a good player, but we need someone with some knowledge of how the NFL works,” said Brown. “I just don’t think Myles Garrett is mentally able to deal with a few 3-13 seasons. Our model player is Joe Thomas: productive on the field, but can handle crushing and sustained disappointment. Getting players like that is the only chance we have of turning this franchise around.”
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Cleveland "has not made up its mind" with the No. 1 overall pick, and some Browns executives like Myles Garrett while others prefer Mitchell Trubisky. Additionally, Schefter had an NFL executive text him to "not be surprised" if Texas A&M's Garrett is not selected with the top pick. Garrett has been the overwhelming favorite to be the first player off the board to the Browns for months now, but Trubisky appears to be picking up steam. Cleveland obviously is desperate for a quarterback, but it would be hard to see them passing on Garrett.
Related: Browns Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Apr 11 - 9:36 PM
Yeah, I heard this on Mike and Mike this morning. Uggh. Either Schefty is desperate for some click-bait late in the draft process, or Haslam has been bringing in more bums as draft consultants.
j/c I think it's silly season, and if the Team put anything out there then it's pure smoke. I think we know were taking Garrett. But the NFL, has a habit of coming down on the Teams that hold the #1 pick and tells them they have to keep the draft exciting and if they come out and say who they are drafting then it ruins it for everybody. I really think that's the only reason we have not declared Garrett. We don't want to fight the NFL.
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Cleveland "has not made up its mind" with the No. 1 overall pick, and some Browns executives like Myles Garrett while others prefer Mitchell Trubisky. Additionally, Schefter had an NFL executive text him to "not be surprised" if Texas A&M's Garrett is not selected with the top pick. Garrett has been the overwhelming favorite to be the first player off the board to the Browns for months now, but Trubisky appears to be picking up steam. Cleveland obviously is desperate for a quarterback, but it would be hard to see them passing on Garrett.
Related: Browns Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Apr 11 - 9:36 PM
I heard the rumor this morning that they're considering Trubisky at #1. If they do that, you can add it to the list of draft mistakes the Browns made. Hopefully this is just talk to muddy the waters or force a trade offer. Unless the offer includes a high #1 pick this year, and a #1 next year, I'm not interested. And I'm barely interested in that. Experience says, take Garrett and move on. If Trub's not there at #12, take BPA and figure out a way to get Mahomes.
That's a very good reply, good read, and I understand your and many others take on Garrett. I don't see it that way myself but I did enjoy reading your post. I just don't see the "generational" player others see. I just kinda see an exceptional athlete who has gotten by on that alone and doesn't show me enough for me to think he can provide the impact IMO that a generational player would provide. AKA Bruce Smith or Lawrence Taylor. I see a guy who with his athletic ability and motivation, assuming it gets at least a bit better, a 8-10 sack a year guy. Very good production but I just can't call him a once in a generation player. But it's just my own opinion on him. Been wrong before and may be wrong now. Thanks for the reply.
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Cleveland "has not made up its mind" with the No. 1 overall pick, and some Browns executives like Myles Garrett while others prefer Mitchell Trubisky. Additionally, Schefter had an NFL executive text him to "not be surprised" if Texas A&M's Garrett is not selected with the top pick. Garrett has been the overwhelming favorite to be the first player off the board to the Browns for months now, but Trubisky appears to be picking up steam. Cleveland obviously is desperate for a quarterback, but it would be hard to see them passing on Garrett.
Related: Browns Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter Apr 11 - 9:36 PM
I heard the rumor this morning that they're considering Trubisky at #1. If they do that, you can add it to the list of draft mistakes the Browns made. Hopefully this is just talk to muddy the waters or force a trade offer. Unless the offer includes a high #1 pick this year, and a #1 next year, I'm not interested. And I'm barely interested in that. Experience says, take Garrett and move on. If Trub's not there at #12, take BPA and figure out a way to get Mahomes.
JMHO
I disagree Trubisky is most certainly worth the 1st overall pick and he will be a good QB in this league. Most importantly he is a football player, he LOVES football and he loves OHIO. NO ONE will work harder to win here then Mitchell.
If you don't have a QB you don't have a team. You cna't win without one. IMO i'd take Trubisky over Wentz and folks were mad we didn't take Wentz.
Again the only DE taken #1 overall that has had a career worth that selection was Bruce Smith back in 1985...the odds are not in Garretts favor of having that kinda career...not saying he wont, just saying odds don't favor it.
At this point, im ok with them taking either Trub or Garret. I'd prefer Trub, but i guess i could live with Garret....
this talk of Trubisky not being worth a top 5 pick is nonsense...the kid is a winner, and many will never see him coming...just like no one saw Tom Brady coming either...except Bellichik....
I disagree Trubisky is most certainly worth the 1st overall pick and he will be a good QB in this league. Most importantly he is a football player, he LOVES football and he loves OHIO. NO ONE will work harder to win here then Mitchell.
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this talk of Trubisky not being worth a top 5 pick is nonsense...the kid is a winner
Do you have some kind of evidence to support these claims? I think I read something about him loving Ohio, but where did you find the rest of your information?
Does going 8 and 5 make him a "winner?"
What about working harder than anyone? How do you know that? He couldn't even beat out Marquise Williams for the starting job.
How do you know he loves football more than other quarterbacks?
How do you know he loves football more than other quarterbacks?
That's what I'm wondering, lol. Nothing against Trubisky, but this is a very confusing statement. What evidence is there that he loves football more than say...... Cody Kessler. Kessler, a guy who started three seasons for USC, and had to battle through two QB competitions, in his first two seasons starting?
And I'm not saying Kessler is better than Trub, just pointing out that statements like that are opinion with very little fact to back it up.
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What about working harder than anyone? How do you know that? He couldn't even beat out Marquise Williams for the starting job.
But this has some variables in it too. I mean, Williams was not that bad of a college QB, and that's just a decision made by a coach. If you look at newspapers covering UNC on the years that Trub wasn't starting, (especially 2015), they all talk about competition and many say they think that Trubisky should start.
In 2015 he appeared in 9 games, he went 40-47, 6 touchdown passes, with 3 touchdown runs. No interceptions. I don't like following stats too close, but I haven't watched any 2015 film of him. Point is, they aren't slouch numbers by any means.
In it the Coach says, "“For me to answer the question, it’s we had pretty good chemistry with (Williams),” Fedora said, looking back on why Williams won the job. “He did a great job of leading the team. Things were going well. I didn’t want to shake that up. And so I thought I did what was best for the football team.”
I guess that's a fair enough answer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not favoring Trubisky at 1, just saying that there's a story to him not starting in 2015
I am simply wondering where he found his information to come up w/those claims.
Oh absolutely, just wanted to bring up a point in general that there's a story about the 2015 season and Williams.
I remember watching them play a game in 2015 (not sure vs who anymore though, wasn't against UConn), and ESPN/whoever really hyped up Marquise Williams. I remember that I wasn't that impressed with him specifically, but they were talking about potential and how the coaching staff loved him, and all sorts of other stuff.
He did have a pretty good season too. They lost the first game of the season to South Carolina, then ran the table till they played Clemson in the ACC Championship. It's not like Williams was a total bust or anything.
Just want to make the point that Marquise Williams holding onto his starting job is not like the biggest knock. He had a good season that year and so did UNC.
As for how I know about Trubisky, its really quite simple.
Only TWO players in this draft have "The Look" those two being Hooker and Trubisky. Very few people actually know what "The Look" is or even know what to look for. "The Look" actually is more then just the look in the eyes but the look in the eyes is part of it.
You can just see the success and passion just brimming out of both Trubkisky and Hooker....
The Browns can take whoever, im just telling you i will NEVER bet against someone who has "The Look" and Hooker and Trubisky are the only two who have it.....As Apollo Creed would say "Eye of the Tiger" Trubs and Hooker are the only two in this draft that have the "Eye of the Tiger" and you never bet against anyone who has it....Garret most certinaly does not have the Eye of the Tiger...he isn't hungry....he doesn't have the hopes and dreams Hooker and Trubs have.....Not everyone has hopes and dreams.
Garret is just satisfied with being taken #1 overall,just like Stone Cold Steve Austin told CM Punk the current WWE lockeroom is jsut full of guys happy to be on TV...they are not hungry like the guys in the old days were....that how this current draft is...Trubisky and Hooker are both hungry how guys like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were hungry coming out of that draft.....you never bet against guys with "The Look" because most of the folks in the NFL HOF have it....many great athlete without "the Look" have just been satisfied with getting into the NFL while good players, never achieved greatness....these two have the best chance to achive such greatness simply because of "The Look" and how it makes them hungry...
Very few people actually know what "The Look" is or even know what to look for. "The Look" actually is more then just the look in the eyes but the look in the eyes is part of it.
When your best wins are a two point win over Florida State when their new kicker misses 3 FGs and a one score game against an injury depleted Miami defense where you only put up 20 points (none after the half), you lose to 4-8 Duke, and end the season on a losing streak when the games matter most, it's hard for me to attach the winner tag.
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Miami: Injuries are now a huge problem for Miami, which wasn't particularly deep to start the season. Defensive linemen Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson were knocked out of the game with injuries, and linebacker Michael Pinckey was shaken up twice -- but returned both times. The Hurricanes' defense was so depleted that some players not even on the two-deep saw action in the second half.
UNC was a really talented team and they underperformed. They could have double digit players drafted this year with the majority from the Offense.
I also question his leadership and not so much his intelligence, but his ability to apply the information he has. Like if you give him information he can spit it back out, but I'm not sure how well he really understands it-I'd point to the hard count snafu. This isn't really definite, but my impression. He can do what he is told, but I'm not sure how well he really processes.
Don't use KOB as the banner of those who do like Trubisky...lol
I've said it from the beginning of draft talk. If HUE "LOVES" Tribusky is is THE GUY according to him...he might be overall #1. Personally I think he like Trubisky over all the QBs but not to the extent of making him #1. There is a possibility that he could be the first QB taken in this draft at #12.
I like his Accuracy, Arm, Footwork, and several other variables. I also like the fact that he is from the area and a Browns fan. There is more likelihood that he would stay in Cleveland Long Term. Sometimes posters "PUFF" up their position on a player. Not everything requires a "LINK".
Don't use KOB as the banner of those who do like Trubisky...lol
I've said it from the beginning of draft talk. If HUE "LOVES" Tribusky is is THE GUY according to him...he might be overall #1. Personally I think he like Trubisky over all the QBs but not to the extent of making him #1. There is a possibility that he could be the first QB taken in this draft at #12.
I like his Accuracy, Arm, Footwork, and several other variables. I also like the fact that he is from the area and a Browns fan. There is more likelihood that he would stay in Cleveland Long Term. Sometimes posters "PUFF" up their position on a player. Not everything requires a "LINK".
jmho
Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Trubisky too. But to talk about "The Look" and how he can see "The Look" and very few can. Sounds like some craziness, like what we're fed by a cult leader.
Me, I like Trubisky. I'm not as down on him as many are. I'm good with it at the 12. Like I was saying, QBs are gonna be going to be in real demand, real soon. Better get one while you can because players will be retiring. I'd love to get the pick of whoever we want.
I just don't know about him at Number 1. Especially with Garrett there. I'd even consider trading up from 12 if the price is right.
But yes, if Hue says he's the guy, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and he's the guy. I think Trubisky has all the tools to make it happen.
But I don't really care that he's from the Ohio area. Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn were from the Ohio Area, didn't really matter at all. When QBs show that they're good, rarely do they leave. I would assume the case would be the same for us, if we ever find ourselves a franchise QB
What I do like is what I see on the film that there is of Trubisky. He's got a strong enough arm, and he shows very good accuracy and poise int he pocket.
I'm not down on Kessler though either. I still say he's going to surprise people. I think with a full offseason of workouts/weight room, Kessler is going to be improved. He'll be more durable, and I think that we might see some arm strength improvement.
So many people on here say that arm strength can't be improved. I disagree. I think it can. And I think it also is over emphasized. Timing and anticipation are just as important. Peyton Manning certainly didn't come out of college with a rocket. Nor did Brady, nor did Drew Brees. I've heard that people knocked Aaron Rodgers Arm Strength out of college, but I'm not so sure about that. I wanted Rodgers at that 3 pick, and I thought I remembered him having a strong arm.
Point being, I like Kessler. And I certainly don't think he's going to go down without a fight to be the Browns starting QB Next Year......
Coming from the area won't make him a better QB...my only point with that is if he becomes a Franchise QB he will be more cooperative in his 2nd and 3rd contracts to stay here...that's all.
thanks for the discussion...we pretty much are on the same page
Coming from the area won't make him a better QB...my only point with that is if he becomes a Franchise QB he will be more cooperative in his 2nd and 3rd contracts to stay here...that's all.
thanks for the discussion...we pretty much are on the same page
I guess more cooperative on the contracts, but no matter what, if he's a franchise guy, he won't be going anywhere. Not many QBs move around anymore, if they're good.
Carson Palmer has, but had Kimo Von Offenhoffenoven or whatever his name is not fallen on his leg in that playoff game, Palmer would have been a career Bengal. That Steeler did a number on Palmer's career on one dirty play........
And had San Diego known what they had in Brees (and had he shown in SD what he showed in NO), they would have traded away Rivers
..... And as for discussion and same page, "What can I say, I guess, You're welcome"
Not sure where that comes from. I love that phrase anyway, "Winner"
I mean, was Ken Dorsey a winner? lol. How about that OSU QB, Craig Krenzel? And Colt McCoy. I think that phrase gets tossed around too much.
John Elway was a loser too. 5-6 record his senior year and a losing win-percentage his entire college career. Marino lost three games his senior year too and under-achieved. You know who was a winner though? Todd Blackledge. He went 11-1 and won a national championship.
I am in the vast minority here but I don't see Thomas being anything more than an average LE at best. He had one good game and even in that game, against average competition, there was plenty of meh tape. Well know in 3 years but imo he isn't a 1st round talent. I think McDowell is head and shoulders above him.
1. just a few things about the tape. 2016 he played with a bum ankle most of the year. He concentrated more on securing his Run discipline.
He is a football player...not a track star on the edge. He is Suggs with Speed!
I know you were exaggerating for effect with that Garrett doesn't belong in the first round statement so I won't go further with it.
Get use to him being a Brown.
Williams is a good DC he can make guys better and more important Garrett is looking to learn and work hard to get better.
He will get his share of Reps with Joe Thomas opposite him...that is priceless.
What I'm looking forward to is Collins in 90 and Garrett in 5/7 coming at the QB from the same side!!! or even Collins coming inside as Garrett loops around.
I said this once, but I'll say it again, if we like Trub we'll take him at #1 not #12. There is no way we take a chance on him being there at #12 if we like him. We have to take him at #1. Now if we do wait and take him at #12 then it's a big reach and we should just take BPA on defense. IMO
I said this once, but I'll say it again, if we like Trub we'll take him at #1 not #12. There is no way we take a chance on him being there at #12 if we like him. We have to take him at #1. Now if we do wait and take him at #12 then it's a big reach and we should just take BPA on defense. IMO
1. just a few things about the tape. 2016 he played with a bum ankle most of the year. He concentrated more on securing his Run discipline.
He is a football player...not a track star on the edge. He is Suggs with Speed!
I know you were exaggerating for effect with that Garrett doesn't belong in the first round statement so I won't go further with it.
Get use to him being a Brown.
Williams is a good DC he can make guys better and more important Garrett is looking to learn and work hard to get better.
He will get his share of Reps with Joe Thomas opposite him...that is priceless.
What I'm looking forward to is Collins in 90 and Garrett in 5/7 coming at the QB from the same side!!! or even Collins coming inside as Garrett loops around.
Widely considered to be an elite pass-rushing talent, Myles Garrett has all but solidified his place atop the boards of most, if not all, of the draft community.
A certain Hall of Fame defensive lineman doesn't seem to be hopping on the bandwagon.
Warren Sapp came out of the woodwork Sunday to blast the presumed No. 1 overall pick and offer up a late hot take about Garrett's game.
"I don't see it from this kid," Sapp said, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. "I see the splash plays - everybody gets those. Where's the game he took over? Where? Any defensive lineman who's the No. 1 pick, you turn up and you say, 'There it is!' This kid, no, I don't. I'm a pretty plain and frank guy, and I watch the tape and he disappears. I watch the tape and he absolutely disappears."
Sapp went on to suggest that the hype surrounding Garrett is about measurables, and thus his perceived potential, more so than what he's actually proven capable of doing on the football field.
He questions how important the game of football is to the former Texas A&M star and says the dominance many others have seen is merely a matter of flashes.
"I see a lazy kid that makes four plays a game," Sapp said. "This is the No. 1 guy? No, no, no. This ain't even close."
Despite playing through injury in 2016, Garrett posted 8.5 sacks, giving him a total of 31 across his three seasons in the SEC. That number is good for second in conference history, behind only fellow draft prospect Derek Barnett.
Barring the surprise selection of a quarterback, the majority of the football world is expecting the Cleveland Browns to go with Garrett as a potential defensive cornerstone at No. 1 overall.
Proving the outspoken Sapp wrong should give him a little extra motivation as he begins his NFL career.
Admittedly, I don't think Garrett is a sure-shot, can't-miss prospect. I have some worries (lack of production against top-tier competition, some injury history, kind of a different kid, etc) ... BUT, look at it from the other perspective: who DO you draft at #1 that you'd feel better about than Garrett? he's probably has the lowest floor/highest ceiling
I said this once, but I'll say it again, if we like Trub we'll take him at #1 not #12. There is no way we take a chance on him being there at #12 if we like him. We have to take him at #1. Now if we do wait and take him at #12 then it's a big reach and we should just take BPA on defense. IMO
At this point in your post, you lost me...
Ok, no problem. I am saying That if they like him enough to draft him in the first, then they would draft him at #1 and not take a chance on losing him. But if not, then taking a player at #12, unless he is BPA is a reach because they let him go at #1. It's not that hard to understand.
Ok, no problem. I am saying That if they like him enough to draft him in the first, then they would draft him at #1 and not take a chance on losing him. But if not, then taking a player at #12, unless he is BPA is a reach because they let him go at #1. It's not that hard to understand.
What if they like Trub at #12? Shouldn't they draft him then?
Warren Sapp is entitled to his opinion. IMO MG has all the tools and this should only motivate him more. However, if MG needs a little more motivation we have a new DC that will be more than happy to help him. GW probably can't wait to get a young player like MG in camp and push and teach him to be as good as he can be. MG has a lot of talent and can be as good as he wants. I don't think GW will let it be wasted.
I said this once, but I'll say it again, if we like Trub we'll take him at #1 not #12. There is no way we take a chance on him being there at #12 if we like him. We have to take him at #1. Now if we do wait and take him at #12 then it's a big reach and we should just take BPA on defense. IMO
At this point in your post, you lost me...
Ok, no problem. I am saying That if they like him enough to draft him in the first, then they would draft him at #1 and not take a chance on losing him. But if not, then taking a player at #12, unless he is BPA is a reach because they let him go at #1. It's not that hard to understand.
First off. Any of these QBs at 12 is a reach.
Not the point.
The point is, just because you pass on someone. Doesn't mean drafting them later is a "reach"
I just watched the 2015 highlights of Myles Garrett, his best college year, to really see how he plays and where his sacks come from. Here is a quick rundown:
Arizona State - Jumped the snap without getting a penalty call and chased down the QB unblocked - sack.
ARK - Beat the LT for a sack. (Good play)
MISS - Came in unblocked on a screen pass and blocked and intercepted.
ALA - Unblocked on a punt, came from right side, beat RB and reached out to block punt.
MISS - Unblocked shot in and tackled RB in backfield and forced fumble
Missouri - Went wide around LT, barely touched, sacked QB forced fumble
ALA - Soundly beat LT for a sack
AZ St - Play action fake, everyone went to ball and Garret was left unblocked and went right to QB for sack. (Weird play)
LOU - Left unblocked sacked QB
NEV - Went wide and beat LT, no resistance, sack
??? - Unblocked, tackled RB in backfield
Miss St - Pushed LT back in pocket, LT steps back and trips Dak Prescott.
Summary - he had 2 good plays where he actually beat a LT straight up. But, 6 of twelve of his big plays, he was left totally unblocked. On 3 others, he beat the other team off the ball, but got minimal resistance. He forced a couple fumbles and an interception. He always is trying for the strip on tackles. To me, it looks like as long as he is unblocked or nearly unblocked, he will make a play - count on it. But going straight up mano y mano against LT's, not much to see there.
Watch a video of Derek Barnett and contrast. He is beating LTs and RTs play after play. I actually think he will be the better pro.
Gregg Williams is the wild card. He will, based on reputation, not except anything but 100% effort from all our d players. Not sure we've ever had DC like him since our return.
Gregg Williams is the wild card. He will, based on reputation, not except anything but 100% effort from all our d players. Not sure we've ever had DC like him since our return.
Homewood...you sir, are 100% correct. The key to Myles Garrett's success in Cleveland will be tied to the individuals who will be teaching him.
After I reviewed MGs game performances over the last 3 seasons, I pointed out the fact that Garrett does indeed take plays off and he does seem to lack effort at times. This behavior was more noticeable in the 2016 season vs the two previous seasons. I know about his injury situation during the 2016 season and did factor it in to my opinion.
I was not sure about the Browns taking Garrett at #1 until I factored in who his defensive coach would be should the Browns draft Garrett at #1.
Gregg Williams might be the best thing to happen to Myles Garrett and his NFL career. Gregg Williams, with his 35 years of coaching experience..27 yrs at the NFL level..is the reason why I believe Myles Garrett would be the perfect draft pick for the Browns at #1.
Summary - he had 2 good plays where he actually beat a LT straight up. But, 6 of twelve of his big plays, he was left totally unblocked. On 3 others, he beat the other team off the ball, but got minimal resistance. He forced a couple fumbles and an interception. He always is trying for the strip on tackles. To me, it looks like as long as he is unblocked or nearly unblocked, he will make a play - count on it. But going straight up mano y mano against LT's, not much to see there..... Watch a video of Derek Barnett and contrast. He is beating LTs and RTs play after play. I actually think he will be the better pro.
Imho to really get a feel for how one prospect stacks up against others or the field requires a qualitative and quantitative count of how they get their production compared to everyone else.
For layman like myself its too much data to process alone. I rely on sites like PFF for that type of data and Garrett grades out well he's up there with Derek Barnett (who i've always liked btw, i advocated taking Allen at 1 then Barnett at 12 awhile back).
I think the fact that over Garrett's career he has generated pressures, QB hits and sackes shouldn't imho be unquestioned.
But its he's freakish athleticism that makes him the top edge rusher. The play you mentioned against ole miss? Where he tips a pass then jumps to make the int is an example of his rare physical attributes.
Thank you Mac I appreciate your response to my post. I post my opinions on these forums it doesn't mean I'm right but some I feel very strong about. I really feel we should draft MG. I really feel with all these picks in a deep draft we should let the draft come to us and not trade picks, especially in the 1st 3 rounds, to move up. I don't feel we should take a QB high because I feel there's not much difference in the top 5 rated guys. Am I right, who knows, but I think we have a great opportunity to turn this franchise around. We had a good FA period now let's have a great draft.
Appearing on the Dan Patrick Show Tuesday night, NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah said, "I haven't talked to one personnel guy that has an issue with Myles Garrett and his effort." This has gotten some media attention in recent days, likely in a plot from some other team in trying to somehow scare the Browns off Garrett at No. 1 overall. But it's simply make believe, and world-class bonehead and ex-NFL Network "talent" Warren Sapp added fuel to it by calling Garrett out earlier this week for being "lazy". ESPN's Todd McShay ripped Sapp's evaluation on Tuesday, and some have even questioned if Sapp has ever even seen Garrett play a snap. We doubt it.
“I don’t see it from this kid,” Sapp told Adam Schefter of ESPN. “I see the splash plays; everybody gets those. Where’s the game he took over? Where? Any defensive lineman who’s the No. 1 pick, you turn up and you say, ‘There it is!’ This kid, no, I don’t. I’m a pretty plain and frank guy, and I watch the tape and he disappears. I watch the tape, and he absolutely disappears.”
“It’s all about measurable,” Sapp said. “Once you hit the measurable, it’s tough to get them old scout people off the numbers, and that’s what [Garrett] has. He’s big, and he’s fast. Now some defensive line coach is thinking, ‘I can turn him into something.’ How? I’m trying to figure this out. Really? Are we lowering the bar? . . .
“I see a lazy kid that makes four plays a game. This is the No. 1 guy? No, no, no. This ain’t even close.”[u][/u]
‘I don’t think this kid is as good as Courtney Brown either,’ Sapp said.”
Sapp has this kid pegged...he is sooo over -rated, and not only that, but he's lazy...Gregg Williams can't change lazy...People are motivated by their own self interests....Willaims can't change him, Garret will have to want to change on his own, and good luck with that.
This is a big reason i want Trubisky, because he isn't lazy and he actually wants to be here and if for some reason Mitch wouldn't work out(very very small possibility, the kid will be a good QB), it WONT be because of lack of effort or heart...Garrett most certainly will fail because of lack of effort and lack of heart, things that can't be coached.
Gregg Willaims will have a smuch success changing Garrett lazines as Mike Pettine had in curing Manziel drinking issues...good luck
Garret has all sorts of red flags everywhere, but all people care about is the numbers...those numbers Garret put at the combine DO NOT make him a football player.
A small part of me will hope Mitchell is the pick, if he isn't i'll cheer Mitchell wherever he goes and he will be great I have no doubts. Im really hoping he will be great here....guess we will see how the cards fall soon enough.
Sapp is a Hall of Famer...he knows what it takes to be great...he sees the mediocity that is Garret, just like Jim Brown saw the mediocity that was Trent Richardson, but no one wanted to listen...will we ever learn from our mistakes? These HOF'ers are rarely wrong....they know football.
As a "football player" even Sapp says Courtney Brown was more talented, its not all about the damn Combine numbers.
Sapp's not wrong...Courtney Brown was a better "Football Player" coming out...Brown had much better hand work, he had far more then just a spin move, Brown didn't rely 100% on just his physical attributes, Brown had a great swim move, Brown was very well polished all around, Far better hand work, far better at setting an edge in the run game...the only thing that kept Brown from working out were injuries...just bad luck.
Garrett on the other hand is a project...no swim move, has nothing but a spin move, relies on bull rush or just being faster, and that don't work in the NFL(See Kamerion Wimbley)
Right now there are clashes going on in the Front Office between coaching staff and Brown and Depodesta on who too pick.
Odds are the plan last year was to take the QB this year, and Depodesta wants to stick to that plan regardless of Garret and they should...when you make a longterm strategic plan you MUST stay the course and see it though period...this is what Successful organizations do...dropping everything and deviating from the plan because of one guy just upsets everything.
It will be interesting to see who wins out in this little struggle.
If we trade down a few spots and take a QB Depodesta wins, if we take the QB Depodesta wins,If we trade up for the QB, Depodesta wins, if we take Garret the coaching staff wins and I see Depodesta probably exiting shortly after.
I slowly came around to the analytics thing...looking at the anaylitics it makes no sense to take Garret when your rebuilding the team from the ground up the way Depodesta wants to....passing on the QB is like passing on a Cy Younf award winning pitcher(Trubisky) for a Catcher(Garret)...the Pitcher is winning games, the Catcher isn't.
There is very real contention right now in the Browns FO who to take....they hired Depodesta for unique expertise...just this once they need to give him the nod....he knows what he is doing as much as it pains me to say it...were too used to making the wrong choice to know what the right choice is.....let the Analytic whiz do his thing..
Sorry man, Sapp is probably the last player I would ever take any stock in listening too. Just because someone was a good player does not mean they know what to look for. Garrett was considered the #1 pick even before the combine so that last comment makes no sense.
I don't think Garrett is lazy, I just think that after he gets some money in the bank he's going to start being more interested in his "other interests". I hate to say it, but he just doesn't feel like he NEEDS football and in my opinion that's what you have to have to be a great pro...
I'm hoping that Silver's reports of us talking to teams in the top 8 was misconstrued and it's about us trading back from #1, not trading up from #12. Pipe dream I know...
"Odds are the plan last year was to take the QB this year, and Depodesta wants to stick to that plan regardless of Garret and they should" This sounds nothing like DePo's reasoning and logic.
"Odds are the plan last year was to take the QB this year, and Depodesta wants to stick to that plan regardless of Garret and they should" This sounds nothing like DePo's reasoning and logic.
Nothing in Knights reply sounds anything like Depodesta's thinking. Nothing the typed makes any sort of sense
The Cleveland Browns had debated whom to select with the No. 1 overall pick, but now are planning to draft defensive end Myles Garrett, sources confirmed to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
