So trump is applying pressure to open schools. He has the gall to say that dems want the schools closed to make him look bad politically.

For real. Make him look bad politically.

Nothing about the virus and what is safe. He then said the CDC guidelines are to tough and restrictive. And now the CDC has said these are "just guidelines."

I live with my two grandsons. I am in good health however I am 72. First there is no way at this point that I will listen to any state and local official. About anything. Unless it makes sense to me. I follow the guidelines. You have to be ignorant and selfish to not wear a mask in public. The virus is airborne spread. Common sense. Wash hands after going out. Again common sense. Do not go indoors where there are large crowds. Again common sense.

If you are in a part of the country where there has been a large jump in cases. Does it make sense to send children to school? I don't think so. Find out for yourself what the school plans on doing. Do you feel your kids will be safe.
What procedure will there be in place? Masks? Social distance? Temperature tests? Questions on exposure?

Do not blindly send your kids to school.

I heard and saw a doctor brought to tears. Because of the common callousness of people saying "it's only old people that are affected." Nursing homes people waiting to die.
He said what about a healthy 80 year old who watches grandkids so the parents can work? A mother and grandmother both in the hospital with Covid. Only one comes out.

How about that.

I am disgusted by how this government under trump's callous hand has handled the response to this pandemic.

Everyone should be outraged by his behavior.

Now we are talking about school kids as pawns in a political game. Repulsive.

My grandsons will return when they are vaccinated. If that is in the first quarter of 2021 so be it.

He seems to be the only one setting guidelines based solely on politics.

Opinions based on factual data from doctors and teachers are now less valuable than anti-science government bureaucrats.

Should be fun to see how this thread goes. I'm probably going to stay out of it. If you won't listen to black Americans share their story on this forum, then why would I think you'd listen to me?

If any of you are interested in an educators thoughts on this, you can reach me via PM.

Pit, right now I am livid.

trump is a danger to this country. I had hoped that under his four years nothing like this would happen. Knowing he is unfit for the office.

That somehow we could recover from his time. Tragically many of our fellow citizens have died that didn't have too.

Worst nightmare has come true.

A big problem is that there is very little known about kids and Covid 19.

Not much testing at all with kids. Not much is known at all.

What the experts do know is that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic. More likely to be carriers. In addition as any parent knows. Their behavior is hard to constantly control.

Schools also can be very old structurally. Dated heat and air systems.

There are so many different conditions that can exist inside schools.

Then you have teachers and support staff many over 50+ years old. They can not be everywhere at all times monitoring student behavior. Buffet type lunchrooms are the norm. The worst possible to control infections.

I do not trust government officials. They will withhold information for political reasons.

Just look at trump rallies. A pure example of how irresponsible politicians can be.

Science is knowledge OF consequences. trump does not believe in science and ignores consequences.

He can not be allowed to dictate about should or how schools open.

Here's what we do know, in Phoenix last week, one in four people tested positive for Covid 19.

In many states at this very moment, Texas, Florida, Arizona and more, this virus is worse than it's ever been. Trump seems hell bent on purposefully killing more people. Some would see it as murder by proxy.

Yet somehow he remains with around a 40% approval rating.

One of my fears is that it will take the deaths of Children and School employees to make the idiots out there finally realize that Trump isn't their friend..

BUT, my biggest fear is that even those deaths won't convince anyone that trump is a jackass

We all want things to be normal again. Go to work. Go to school. Go out. etc.

However, we are not in control. Our wants are meaningless.

We have to take it upon ourselves to do what is safe for us and our loved ones.

trump has proven time and time again he has no compassion or empathy. Read what his own niece wrote about this and why. She has a PhD. in psychology.

He actually stated that dems don't want the schools to open because: "it makes him look bad politically.

Think that through.

The safety of children versus HIM not looking good.

Honestly, I have no idea how this guy should get a single vote.

j/c

Just wondering. If it's safe enough for our children to go back to school, come home and spread the virus around to the rest of their family, isn't it safe enough for Roger Stone to start serving his prison sentence?

Lol Or I’ll hold back funding? What funding?

You wanna know how? I'll give you two words.

Joe Biden

This is the wrong approach. Let's try and work together?

This person should be removed from office for stupidity alone.

On top of that he is a danger to all who live in Florida.


https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020...lodroya-vpx.cnn


To make a statement like that shows complete ignorance of all the facts involved.

There are a handful of OH politicians that aren't doing much better recently.

School district near me (not mine) has just announced reopening plans - in a nut shell Elementary Schools will have usual full time schedule - Middle School will have A and B groups alternating between class room and virtual days - High School is essentially the same as Middle School.

If anyone wishes to go virtual schooling full time, they can.

Seems a pretty sensible compromise ... young kids that can't stay home alone without a parent can go back to 'usual' schedule. Older kids that potentially can learn from home without a parent are switching in and out to reduce the school population. Masks obligatory in Mid-High school, strongly recommended for Elementary.

This will be yet another item on a long list of disasters.

Maybe ... the thing is the rest of the world is figuring it out. Germany is back to school etc ....

The issue is here in the USA

- we had too many people (led by Trump) who wanted to down play this to begin with so we got more spread.

- we didn't have enough testing so we didn't know how chronic the spread was

- when we did self isolate and try to flatten the curve, we still had yoyo's who didnt believe because they heard Trump say it was a hoax ... we had riots and protests recently that without doubt added to the spread, we had states in denial because they weren't testing and they wanted to say this was a Liberal thing "just look at all the places worst affected, whadda they have in commmon"

- We did begin to flatten the curve - but Trump in a desperate attempt to salvage his election hopes has and is pressurizing everyone to open up too soon.

- So now - instead of being on top and in control, Trump wants to limit testing so the numbers look better and open up. Trouble is we are not at the peak of 'First Wave' yet.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Daily new cases now touching over 60K - highest so far. I stopped paying attention to this for a month or so, but it's relevant again.

Hopefully schools can get it right and put in place controls and testing that will minimize the impact of any cases that show up in staff or students.

In case you hadn't seen it, other nations who opened their schools did so after they had the virus under control, not in the midst of a huge spike in cases and deaths. Yes, as common sense would dictate the death count is now rising again.

So can schools be opened? They certainly can. Just not the way things currently stand. Had the will to mitigate the virus been stronger, we would look a lot more like nations who have it under control. Our leaders and many of our people didn't pay attention which has led us to where we are now.

The problem IMO is we have very little data on kids. They have not been tested much.

trump actually said kids have this powerful immune system. Well maybe some do. Maybe some like those with asthma or other issues don't.

In addition kids "may" be asymptomatic. That means they don't show systems but that does not stop them from infecting others like parents, grandparents, teachers and staff members.

We are were we are because the trump administration has tried to shelve the virus. He has tried to divert attention away from the virus. Because he knows politically it makes him look like what he is. Inept as a leader. And someone only concerned about "his" status.

He wants schools to open like "the economy." We all want that. However, his motive has nothing to do with what is safe. Which should be the primary objective.

I urge all parents and grandparents to really careful first and foremost. Do not get caught up in political games.

Yes - that was why I laid out the fact that we aren't like most of the rest of the world - we do not have it close to being under control.

Reopening schools “highest risk”

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents-warn-high-risk-schools-reopening/index.html

People seriously need to read that article. Once again Trump and politicians are ignoring the CDC to push an agenda and push against a virus that knows no party.

When are people going to figure out that's why we are where we are now?

Honestly, I do not care how people respond to me.

I know it will not happen. But trump should be removed from office.

His complete irresponsible behavior is, has been, and will be a danger to this country. His own niece with a PhD. in psychology is quoted as saying; "he is incapable of empathy." That is the result of how he was raised.

People need to see that no matter about political policy.

Write those words on the chalkboard 100 times until you can understand it and act responsibly by living it...

It's a complex issue, I know, but why not wait until next January? Perhaps we'll have a vaccine by then...

40% of kids can be asymptomatic.

In normal non Covid 19 times most parents know already schools are a breeding ground for sickness especially elementary schools. I mean kindergarten is like a snot factory in the winter.

Many schools are in old "sick buildings" with poor ventilation. Lunch rooms can be flat out gross.

How dare Kudlow say "just open the schools it can not be that hard."

Pence? Is an empty suit with a vocal cord. He should be denied air.

This really pisses me off. The Sec. of Education Betsy DeVos is another trump appointee with zero credentials. A complete utter incompetent moron. She was born into a family of an industrialist billionaire. She is not an educator. She was confirmed by the Senate 51 to 50. Pence broke the tie.

So here we are.

hater.

screw your facts.

Ah humor. I get humor.

Clem my man, we are in dire straits. And that is not the band I'm talking about.

It is just horrible to think of all the families who will suffer as their love ones pass away. I pray a vaccine comes quick because we don't have the leadership to get through this. It just will not come from trump and this administration.

There is no plan. None. Governors are left to do there own thing. Florida is like Brazil. The guy there is a fool.

The outlook is very concerning to put it mildly.

Too many folks simply want money for nothing. It's almost as if they think that CV-19 is so far away.

This topic really upsets me.

Kids are in schools for like five hours or more at a time. Not like going to Home Depot for 20 minutes. Not spread out with high ceilings. Not where you can avoid people.

People outside of your family want to tell you to send your kids to school.

No effing way. They will return when they are vaccinated. In the meantime they will remote learn. And we will make due.

I don't understand how people seem incapable of seeing what the hell is going on with this virus.

I have to go to the grocery store. I may need something to fix a house issue and go to Home Depot. I see people walking around without masks and they act proud about it.

Beyond comprehension. I would love to see them after dealing with this virus if they live. Maybe just talk to someone who has.

J/C
But lets cheer on the protesters the rioters and looters the blm that were all encouraged by the crazy left. MILLIONS of them marching without masks and no social distancing I guess the dems cant spread the virus only the repubs can pffft.....smfh

This is about Schools.

Get it. Schools. Not about Democrats or Republicans.

This is about the front door of the schools and if is safe or can be made safe.

Wake up. pffft or whatever that means.

Well, it is about schools.

Get this: Daughter got a text from the U. of Toledo. According to her, classes will be on line. I guess it's deemed not safe enough to have class in person. Fine.

But, students will still need to be on campus, in dorms. I guess that's safe? Follow the money.


Now, I will say, I've not gotten an e-mail from the university. Yet. But, it's Saturday night.

Any clue how ticked off I'll be if my daughter is required to live on campus, but take her classes on line?

I guarantee not a soul on her knows how ticked I'll be, IF that is the case.

Follow the money folks, in everything. You'll learn a lot.

BUT don't downplay the fact they are doing the right thing with the online only classes.

What? If on line classes are the safe thing, why demand students live in dorms? Makes no sense, what so ever, other than a money grab. Get the room and board, right?

I'll know more Monday. I think.

I'm with arch on this one.

If classrooms are deemed to be unsafe, rooms 1/10th their size should be deemed unsafe, as well (duh-). In fact, they should be considered ten times more unsafe, just by common sense alone.

If a course can be taken online from a dorm room in Toledo, it can be taken online from a house 45 minutes west of campus. The choice should be left up to the consumer, not the service provider.

arch may or may not be correct about the money trail aspect. I suspect that he's probably more wrong than right about the engine driving this particular policy. My concern isn't about money, and for the time being, it shouldn't be the engine behind the school's decisions, either. Public/personal safety is the only- the ONLY consideration that matters, in my opinion. "Dying to get an education" should always be a figure of speech, not a declaration of fact.

UT's endowment is muscular enough to float them for 2 years uninterrupted, if they had to. That's what endowments were set up to do (along with playing The Market for profit). 2 years is most likely long enough for a mass-effective vaccine/prevention protocol to be developed/distributed widespread.

If money is influencing policy, death will follow their decisions, as well. It's inevitable.


I don't think any of these schools should be considering mass gatherings in the middle of an uncontrolled pandemic. Not until there is a vaccine or surefire life-saving cure.

130,000 of our citizens were alive on New Year's Day. They are now gone forever. And that thing is still out there.

People are not taking this seriously enough Not at all.

I had bad feelings about this when it first started ravaging people in far-off lands. By the time Italy was in the news, we already had examples of good control (S.Korea, Taiwan) and no control. We basically knew what mitigation protocols worked/didn't. And from the start, we all knew (or should have known) that handling/surviving this disease was going to require three things of us all: patience, maturity and discipline- three traits that are abundantly absent in our culture.

Look around you when you venture outside your house. This country had failure written into this script from The Jump.

___________________


arch: has your family considered 'stopping out' for a semester/year as a viable option? Keep yours safe, dawg.

yep. i hope this doesnt extend to the nonsense trump is trying to pull by not letting student visa holders in the country if everything is swap to online.

but just overall, i agree. if we're gonna move classes online, theres no point in making students move into dorms. sit they asses at home and show the discipline to do the work.

regardless of how crappy this virus is, we have a chance to essentially kill two birds with one stone.

1. keep everybody healthy by not opening up dorms rooms, and

2. save our future workers a crap ton of money by not going into debt paying for overpriced student housing.

Has ANYBODY in an official capacity said that she will have to live in a dorm to attend online? That would defeat the purpose. I think this is much ado about nothing and just something you concocted to be worked up about WHILE downplaying that they did the right thing.

Now if your fear, or intuition about this materializes, then I'm in your camp that it would be ridiculous, otherwise you are just getting bent out of shape for nothing because the school did something sensible.

And pay attention to the next stimulus-the senate republicans want to revise tort reform so schools, businesses would have no liability. They want the kids to go back to school in person but if they get sick-I guess it’s thoughts and prayers, but you signed the paper and sent them back-you ate on your own

I certainly agree with you about the money grab. That's what has been going on with this entire reopening. Guidelines for reopening were ignored and are still being ignored. Somehow people feel "their freedom" includes spreading a virus to the rest of the nation.

It's the sheer stupidity of it all. Had we of handled the virus as much of the rest of the planet did we may be able to have a rational discussion about opening schools in a safe and responsible manner. As it stands, in many states and locations that's nothing more than a myth.

It appears we will have many universities that will abandon common sense for the money like it seems so may have done to this point.

Everyone is for opening things up. Had we have done so in a safe and responsible manner to begin with we wouldn't be in this position now.

This is what should have been in my previous post.

I didn't concoct anything.

First of all, at UT, first and second year students are required to live on campus IF their home is over 30 miles away (might even be 20 miles, actually). That IS the universities policy.

We live 45-50 miles away. BAM. She's required to live on campus unless we falsify info, claim some weird need, etc. WE don't do that. We don't lie, or cheat the system.


Here is the e-mail I received June 24th.

[u]

(I edited the sender out.)

Keep in mind, that is what I got June 24th. Today is July 12th.

Sooga isn't home right now, so I can't give you the exact info she got. And there's always an outside chance she didn't understand it properly, or didn't relay it to my wife properly.

But, why is under 50 students in a class okay, but over 50 isn't? Keep in mind, the over 50 student classes are in lecture halls. The under 50 student classes are not. They are held in much, much smaller rooms.


But, dorm rooms? They aren't very big. Trust me. Dining halls? Trying to feed people?

I understand there are some classes that you really NEED to be in. She's going into nursing, but that means her first 2 years are NOT nursing classes. (last semester, since the school was closed campus wise, nursing students had to video themselves starting iv's, etc, to send to the prof. Again, my daughter is not in the nursing program at this time.)

When she gets home, I'll know more. But bud, I didn't concoct anything.

The only reason the number 50 is being used is they had to pick some arbitrary number out of their butts. It actually means nothing.

Man I hope you can find some reasonable solution to this. But let's face it, society today doesn't seem to be concerned with what's reasonable from either direction.

I'd drop my kid out of school if they didn't.


We all need education, but we all need to make educated decisions. To me this isn't a hard decision.

You are right. It is not a hard decision.

My two grandsons who I live with are 14 and 7. They are not going back.

There are a lot of factors at play here. Each school across the country is different. Each parent has to look at their case. What is the schools plan? What will they do if there is positive tests? What kind of shape is the school building in? Is social distance possible? What kind of testing has been done in the area? What are the results? What kind of exposure would the child be facing?
Are there people living in the home at greater risk? Does the child have any type of compromised immune system?

If a vaccine is supposed to be available by first quarter next year why risk it? This virus does not just kill. It can leave permanent damage to anyone no matter the age.

We have technology. Why not use it?

This is not and should not be viewed under a political lens. Lives are at stake. Children, teachers, staff, janitors, everyone at the schools and in the homes of those who attend.

This not shopping at Home Depot. This is not one size fits all.

Kids will adjust. Kids will get educated. They will catch up. Lives lost can not be returned.

The response to this will tell us all a lot about this country and who we are.

When Pearl Harbor happened. The United States was united in their response. All efforts went to the war. Soldiers fought. All domestic activity was geared to support the war. Women worked in factories. People recycled metal. It was a unified response.

Why is that not the case now? Why is the country not united in it's response to this common enemy that is attacking all of us?

Because there was no unified message. Zero for trump. He only tried to minimize it. Governors were left to chart their own course. The ones who followed trump went to open up. Now look were we are? People fighting over wearing a mask. Really? An pandemic spread by air. And people want to argue about a mask. And trump doesn't wear one because he says it makes him look weak.

Leadership?

Forget about it. Do what is necessary to protect yourself and loved ones.

Well in your original post it read like you were anticipating them to enforce living on campus. That's the part I can't imagine if they are going to cancel in person classes and move to online only, why would they want students on campus that don't HAVE to be there? Makes no sense.

They ARE enforcing and making 1st and 2nd year students live on campus - minus the caveats I outlined.

They still, as of right now, are saying 'classes of under 50 will meet in person."

That is pending my daughter getting home and me seeing the actual text she got from the University.

My apologies, I misunderstood that.

Devos is an absolute cretin

Devos is an absolute cretin

Decisions to send children back to school hopefully have nothing to do with politics, but based on the best advice of child health experts.

The American Academy of Pediatrics says
"The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school."

Obviously there full recommendation is more developed and complex and includes guidelines for risk management and safety.

This virus happens to be extremely low risk for children.

I for one am trusting the data and sending my kids back, but fully respect the decisions of parents that want to keep their kids at home.

From my understanding it is not low risk for children.

They may be asymptomatic like 40% of the time but they are more likely to be carriers. Look at what happened in Israel when kids returned to school.

In addition they do not have much data on younger kids because they have rarely been tested. So actual data is not there.

The goal is one thing. Doing it safely is something entirely different.

Schools are underfunded to begin with. They are struggling financially to reopen. Reallocating funds from the police would help them to open faster and safer. Also requiring all kids to have healthcare insurance or governmental universal healthcare before returning to school would help open faster and safer.

Facts

I do not think the schools should reopen. However, w/all the despicable behavior that is going on right now, I sure as hell don't want money taken away from the police.

The most despicable behavior I’ve seen lately is police killing our citizens based on their ethnicity. No justice no peace. Black lives matter.

One of my employees is from a small town. She told me this morning they found the newly appointed super has shot himself in front of his car. They believe that the harassment he got from trying to get the school re-opened was the root cause.

It's your right to think that, but I think that most citizens think the rioting, looting, violent, criminal folks are a bigger threat to this countries well-being than the police are.

How about you go tell that the family members of the police murder victims and listen to what they have to say. Problem is, you wouldn’t listen. You’d think you’re only there to save them from themselves. Pffft.

How about you go talk the families of the thousands and thousands of folks who have lost family members due to gang violence?

The numbers are not close. I'll side w/the police over the criminals every freaking day of the week and twice on Sunday. Y'all ain't going to win by making unreasonable demands.

I knew you wouldn’t listen. Pffft trump supporters.

I knew you would not acknowledge the truth. Pfffttt criminal minds.

So sorry to hear that.

Right now the biggest threat by far is the pandemic.

It is attacking this country regardless of ethnicity, age, and political persuasion.

It requires the entire nation to be pulling in one direction. And that is to protect ourselves and loved ones.

Everything else falls way behind.

The topic is about how to open schools safely.

Well turn about should be fair play then. If you think Vers should do that, then you should have to go to all the cops families who have been killed in the line of duty and do the same right.

Pressley hits DeVos over reopening schools: 'I wouldn't trust you to care for a house plant let alone my child'

Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) swiped at Education Secretary Betsy DeVos on Sunday after the Trump administration official doubled down on her push for students to return to school.

In a tweet knocking DeVos on Sunday afternoon, the first-term lawmaker directly called her out, writing, “@BetsyDeVosED you have no plan. Teachers, kids and parents are fearing for their lives.”

“You point to a private sector that has put profits over people and claimed the lives of thousands of essential workers. I wouldn’t trust you to care for a house plant let alone my child,” she continued.



Pressley's tweet came in response to remarks DeVos made in an interview on CNN’s "State of The Union" early Sunday. During her appearance, she reiterated her call for schools to resume in-person classes in the fall and pushed back on social distancing guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommending children’s time meeting in groups be limited to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

“What we're saying is that kids need to be back in school and that school leaders across the country need to be making plans to do just that. There’s going to be the exception to the rule, but the rule should be that kids go back to school this fall,” DeVos said. “Where there are little flare-ups or hot spots, that can be dealt with on a school-by-school or a case-by-case basis.”

When discussing the role CDC guidelines should play in schools reopening, DeVos said, “The CDC guidelines are just that, meant to be flexible and meant to be applied as appropriate for the situation.”

Earlier this month, DeVos said she was “very seriously” looking at holding back federal funding from schools that don’t reopen in the fall, despite CDC guidelines warning that children meeting in groups "can put everyone at risk."

"We are looking at this very seriously. This is a very serious issue across the country," she said then.

President Trump also threatened to do the same to schools that don’t reopen in a tweet around the same time earlier this month.

"The Dems think it would be bad for them politically if U.S. schools open before the November Election, but is important for the children & families. May cut off funding if not open!" Trump tweeted at the time.

However, it’s unclear how much, if any, funding the Trump administration would be able to cut from schools that don’t reopen come fall, as Congress is tasked with appropriating federal funding for schools.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/50698...u-to-care-for-a


#TRUTH

I certainly do not dismiss the loss of life that police suffer at the hands of criminals. I do however feel that you are making a false comparison here.

You see, every officer who joins the police force understands they are making the obligation to put their life on the line every day. I applaud them for that and it takes a very special individual to take on such a commitment.

However, a young black man walking to the 7/11 did not take on that responsibility.

I think anyone who sends their child back to school in packed classrooms this fall should be charged with neglect and child endangerment. Screw the economy if it means putting my grandkids at risk of death due to the failures of Trump and company. they will get by just fine in the depression in this family, but only if they are alive.

Wow.... thanks for showing us the opposite extreme.

You're welcome. Just had to put that out there to move the convo back to center and level headed. When it comes to economy over kids' safety we need a wake up call. Children are our most valuable asset and most vulnerable population because they don't get a say in most of this.

I responded to a direct quote from another poster who talked about taking money away from the police. I choose the police over criminals.

What does that have to do with police killing people who are not criminals? Bait and switch. The oldest game in the book.

I am saying that I trust the police more than criminals. I would rather the police have the funds to protect honest folks like my family and friends. I am also saying that gangs kill way more people than police do. I am saying that they are a far bigger threat to the safety of our communities than the police are.

I could care less how you try to spin what I'm saying. But, I support the police and I don't want to take funds away from them so that the criminals have an even freer run over our communities than they already do.

And while doing so you ignored the kids and schools who desperately need more funding to safely open this fall, while supporting giving all those available funds to killer cops and their corrupt police departments. You ignored “Schools” Your thread bro ..you derailed your own thread. LOL

First of all, we are not "bros." I don't like you. At all.

Secondly, you think I am a guy who ignores schools?

Finally, you are labeling all police officers as killers and all police departments as corrupt? Where are guys like Pit, 888, OCD, and mac saying it is wrong to label entire groups of people because of the poor actions of a few?

The problem is that there are more than just the police and criminals. It's not an either or proposition. And we certainly agree there are other important issues that certainly need to be dealt with, let's not try to diminish the one currently being fought. I'm not going to be the white guy telling them what cause they should be fighting first. Maybe you are but I'll leave that up to you.

I too support the "good cops". There's no group of people that large where everyone in that group are all good or all bad.

I posted an article here that was a statement of the Davidson County sheriff. that's the county where Nashville is located. Here it is...

https://www.nashville.gov/News-Media/News-Article/ID/4409/Sheriff-Hall-OpEd-in-the-Tennessean

He outlined how the police are forced to work with the mentally ill, the homeless and those things are issues they are neither taught to or know how to deal with properly. How the money the police are using to do this would be better spent in places that can deal with it. That the police are simply having too much being put on their plate.

You have displayed nothing but an "us verses them" way of things which is the exact thing you claim to be railing against. This issue doesn't have to be, nor is it really about that at all.

The mentally ill and homeless are not criminals. The police are not the people to deal with that and most police know that.

You’re right we aren’t bro’s. I do that to put us on the same footing. But you’re triggered again and you seem to lumped protesters and BLM in with criminals. So I can’t do the same? Got it. Not the same footing. Yea boss. Got it. Pffft

Which police? The friendly, from the neighborhood, beat cop that everybody knows and respects? Or the militarized racist murderers killing blacks because they are afraid of them/have small penis with a gun Napoleon complex issues? I think people defending the funding for the latter are the REAL criminals we need protected from the most.

Here's the deal, I don't give a damn about labels for the most part. You are what you are, I am what I am. If a label hurts your feelings, you are weak.

But on the cops funding thing, I don't want police forces destroyed or eliminated altogether! But I don't think police departments need tanks, water canons, drones, etc. until criminals start showing up in tanks...

They are overfunded for the purposes of militarization and being trained like everyday citizens are the enemy of the state. NOPE. Can't back that no matter what you say. Back it all up to Barney Fife and one bullet for all I care until they can figure out how to not shoot people or choke them out for little to nothing. There are MANY more important things that money can go to like education, community revitalization and services, programs for poor kids, etc.

And I consider you a bro no matter what you think of me, even when you sound like a hateful GOPer in your new Trumpian-esque posting persona.

Just to give some perspective
2018 children killed in car accidents ages 0-14: 1208
2020 children ages 0 -14 that died WITH Covid-19 through Jun 17: 26

Given that there have been over 100K deaths from Covid-19, I think that we can conclude at this point that children are remarkably resilient to this virus.

Not trying to say those 26 child deaths don't matter because they do, nor am I saying that COVID is not a big deal to other groups in the population, but we also need to be reasonable about this and realize that life involves many risks from activities such as riding in a car. Education and life experiences are important to children and it is worth the risk to send kids back to school. If a school or city has a flare up, then we should adapt.

As a former teacher, I want to add this to the conversation.

First of all, I am not saying we should re-open the schools. I am undecided on that. I am leaning to not opening them.

However, there are a lot of things to consider. I will name a few that haven't come up during this thread.

--Many two-parent families consist of both parents working full-time jobs. They were freaking out on how to provide child care for their kids while they were working and the schools were closed. That additional expense of hiring child care is a real strain on almost all families and can be downright crippling to lower income families.

--What about all the kids who only have one parent? That parent might be working multiple jobs to make ends meet. What is she going to do if the schools are closed?

--I still work as a tutor and each and every kid I tutor hated the distance-learning. They were actually putting in more time on doing assignments and there were no good times that they got to experience at school.

So, once again............I get that y'all hate Trump and want to bash him over every decision and I get that opening the schools back up might be a really bad idea..........but, there is more to the story than you guys are revealing.

P.S. I feel really, really bad for guys like Rish. He has a special needs child and I an unable to even comprehend the angst he and his family are undergoing right now.

Perhaps it should be a time of compassion, understanding, and cooperation rather than a time of hate, bias, and finger-pointing?

Guys....................this is a real crisis. America has always united when faced w/a crisis. Look at 9/11. We came together. This is a bigger crisis. Stop trying to divide and conquer. Work together. Cooperate. Be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Please!

No, it’s not. Not in large cities and hot areas especially. Pffft trump supporters. Kids bring the virus home to parents, grandparents and others. Stop listening to trump and his death squad. They’ve already helped kill over 130,000 Americans on their watch......trump’s general’s are expert doctors and he doesn’t listen to his own generals. You’re a fool if you listen to trump and what is coming out of the WH.

What? What exactly aren’t we revealing?

As I stated each family must measure the risk.

Each school is different. Schools are not WalMart's. Some are in new buildings. Some are in old buildings. Some are in trailers. In some of the cases those buildings would be labeled as "sick buildings." Over 50% of teachers and staff are over 50 years old. 40% of kids who are carriers are asymptomatic. That is a major consideration. Kids are not shoppers. They don't buzz through a large Home Depot type store. Grab a few things and leave. They sit in classrooms for hours with others very close in small rooms. Hallways and stairwells can be cramped. Social distancing may be impossible. Families may have grandparents like myself living with them.

This is not a one size fits all situation.

Some parts of the country are in low risk as far as active infections. Some like Miami are rampant.

Some schools and their districts will approach this differently than others. Some of that may be dependent upon money available.

Interesting that as a country that we can spend all kinds of money. Bail out companies. Spend trillions on the military.

But we can't make schools safe. Won't take the steps necessary to stop school shootings. Threaten school funding if they won't open. Expect teachers to do a difficult job and not pay them appropriately.

Now our children can be used as pawns for politics.

Betsy Devos is a bad joke. She is nothing more than a mouth organ for the administration. She is not an educator. She has no medical background.

And I am expected to listen to her about the safety of my grandchildren and myself?

I. I will look at the facts and decide.

1 in 4 teachers at risk for severe coronavirus infection, report finds

New data suggests 1.47 million education professionals could face serious cases of the virus if schools resume.

Whether or not schools are set to reopen in the fall is still being discussed by many counties, leaving millions of students and academic professionals in an uncertainty-limbo until public health experts make a decision to hold in-person classes or to have students learn remotely.

New data from the Kaiser Family Foundation, however, may guide public health experts to an answer; a new report suggests that approximately 24 percent of teachers are at a greater risk for becoming infected with a serious coronavirus infection.

Put differently, that figures accounts for almost 1.5 million teachers, or roughly 1 in 4.



Multiple factors can make one at risk for a more severe COVID-19 infection that may demand hospitalization or intubation. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) list that older adults and individuals with underlying medical conditions, especially diabetes, obesity, chronic lung, heart or kidney disease, are at an especially high risk.

This data was gathered from a 2018 National Health Interview Survey (NHIS), with a search narrowed to include primary, secondary and special education school teachers who reported having risk factors associated with severe COVID-19 infections.

The numbers underscore just some of the anxieties teachers, students and school employees face as the new academic year approaches and the pandemic shows no signs of dissipating. While children have largely shown strong recoveries from the coronavirus — aside from younger patients who contract a Kawasaki-like disease — an illness that causes inflammation of the blood vessels and typically affects kids younger than 5 years of age— following exposure to the virus, they can act as asymptomatic carriers and transmit the virus to vulnerable relatives or teachers.

“The challenge for school systems and for teachers in particular is the sheer volume of traffic and tight quarters in many school environments, which may make social distancing a significant challenge in many settings,” the report writes. “For higher-risk teachers, failure to achieve safe working conditions could have very serious results.”

This threat affects academic professionals across the gamut, from those working in elementary schools to professors at universities and colleges. It has prompted some to demand masks and social distancing to be mandatory on campus and for in-person classes. Some schools have opted to forgo the forthcoming 2020 semester all together and have students work remotely.

In response, some teachers are choosing early retirement, or leaving the field altogether. Others are not in a financial position to do so, and reluctantly agree to tend to a class during the pandemic.

“How state and local officials balance the desire to reopen schools and other facilities with the need to assure the safety of students, parents, and school personnel will have significant health and economic consequences for both people and the communities they live in,” the report authors conclude. “Assuring the safety of teachers and others at higher risk of serious illness from coronavirus is a crucial part of the calculation around reopening.”

The CDC has issued guidelines for reopening schools safely amid the pandemic.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/wel...ere-coronavirus

j/c...

This is not difficult.

Error on the side of safety.

Each school building and where it is located is different.

Every factor needs to be examined. Infection rates in the area. Ventilation in the school. PPE for teachers. Social distance. We know what needs to be done. Anyone who is considered high risk. Those families with high risk people at home.

Start with a qualified competent Secretary of Education. Instead of a unqualified mouth organ of trump.

Some of what I hear is preposterous and dangerous.

Forward to......

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500

Where it actually means something. That's who is dividing us. Not some guys on a message board.

Once again, Exactly.

Here’s where the day stands so far:

The White House suggested science should not determine whether schools reopen this fall. “The science should not stand in the way of this,” White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said of Trump’s push to reopen schools. She later added, “The science is on our side here.” McEnany’s comments come as a number of school officials express concern about the potential spread of coronavirus in the classroom.

Following White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany’s suggestion that “The science should not stand in the way” of schools reopening, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) issued a scathing statement criticizing the administration’s response to the coronavirus crisis.

“Now the Trump administration wants to further risk the lives of teachers, children, staff, and their families just to soothe the president’s ego,” said Lily Adams, a DNC spokesperson. “This president would rather accept conspiracy theories and reject science than listen to public health experts. He can’t be trusted to make decisions about the lives of America’s children and their families.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live...Ao50-hpGOmIY1e8

Here's my issue with your post in which you reference Trump 4 times...

Florida had a low infection rate from the middle of March to the middle of June.. basically less than 1000 new cases per day FOR 3 MONTHS.. all of this while Cuomo in NY was playing "Bring out your dead" from Monty Python. He's now being heralded as some kind of freaking hero, which boggles my mind. If NY/NJ/CT (the tri-state "plan") was it's own country it would be the 3rd most deadly covid country in the world.. and people are singing his praises.. what a joke.

Maybe red state governors should have done what Cuomo did, let it run rampant, infect as many people as possible, have tens of thousands of deaths, seek help from medical professionals from a bunch of other states to bail you out... then it would run it's course and those of us who are left could all open up.

We were told, back in March, we needed to shut down for TWO WEEKS to flatten the curve.. a lot of the states now getting ridiculed by the left because their cases are rising kept their cases very low and flat for 2-3 MONTHS...

So what is your explanation? How did the "scientists" get everything so freaking wrong at every turn? You can insult Trump all you want but I'm sick and tired of watching red states that had this under control for a LONG TIME now getting hammered.. when the blue states were getting hammered it was all Trumps fault, now it's look at the ignorant red state governors...

???

NYC was under full lock down. and lets be clear here since you are spreading some misinformation:

Cuomo is the GOVERNOR of NY state, NOT the mayor of NYC. and all those cases and deaths happen in NYC, a city with how many millions of people living in close quarters, again?

i have a ton of family in NYC, and they were under lock down. the reason why the city is doing well now is ABSOLUTELY because of the measures Cuomo and the mayor took once we ALL figured out that yes, this virus is a huge threat, and no, trump doesnt have a clue what he's doing.

so its funny how you decided to frame this timeline, seeing as you missed the crucial part with regards to how practically nobody at the FEDERAL level took the virus seriously at first.

especially since...oh, thats right, Trump was busy calling it a hoax made by the democrats to kick him out of office.

^^^^ that happened BEFORE NYC got hammered. so from the very jump, this threat wasnt taken seriously, led by our POTUS, his administration, and congress.

and since you wanna get into red state/blue state trash talking, should i remind you what florida's governor was doing while the cases was picking up in NYC?

dont worry, imma remind you anyway: HE KEPT THE STATE OPEN UNTIL AFTER SPRING BREAK. he put profits over lives. oh look, surprisingly after spring break, cases in florida started rapidly rising.

man, that red state definitely kept them cases low, huh DC?

need i remind you what happened during quarantine?

dont worry, imma remind you anyway: people who closely relate to YOU as a conservative started protesting all over the county.

i cant get my nails done.

i cant get my hair cut.

i cant go to the beach.

storming government buildings with rifles, AS USUAL. and by the way, that happened a good 2-3 weeks before the protest over George Floyd.

YOUR crew started throwing hissy fits cause they were stuck in the house, actually having to spend time with their families for a change.

must have been torture.


scientist didnt get a whole lot wrong. you know what happened? scientist were constantly getting contradicted and trash by none other than President Trump and his cult followers. Fox news was trashing said scientist every chance they got. YOUR people were the ones whining about wearing a mask, not us liberals. YOUR people decided not to listen to the science. YOUR people decided they had enough of quarantine and took Trump over healthcare and virus experts.

and because of that, and now look, because RED states decided they were NOT gonna listen to the scientist, but instead listen to the guy who said.....

its a hoax
its like maybe 2 people
like magic, its gonna go away
the democrats
obama
whine whine whine.

so what happened? those red states, instead of staying under lock down, decided to open those economies back up, led by the same conservatives, LIKE YOU, who came out and said they are willing to put the economy over lives.

Dan Patrick on coronavirus: 'More important things than living'

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tex...things-n1188911

remember that? i do.

so the next time you wanna post trash trump talking points, better get your history straight.

cause your post was straight up Bull.

cant freaking believe you. not even 7 months with this virus and you already pushing revisionist history nonsense around here.

It's not just the kids themselves though. It's the kids being packed together and then all taking it home with them. If 2 kids in a school is 500 have been exposed, suddenly you have thousands of people in a relatively small area exposed.

Bro, Thanks for posting the facts.

Also......

1. 1 out of 4 teachers are at high risk

2. What happens when a teacher gets it? Where does that ENTIRE classs room of kids go? Now imainge 4-5 kids get it and there are no subsitute teachers, because why would a substitute teacher risk it for pennies? Where do these 120-150 kids go? Pack them all in the lunch room? Increase class room size?

3. Children will bring it home and infect their parents, which will be disatrous.

4. Isreal currently trying this and they are back sliding.

Two weeks after Israel fully reopened schools, a COVID-19 outbreak sweeping through classrooms — including at least 130 cases at a single school — has led officials to close dozens of schools where students and staff were infected. A new policy orders any school where a virus case emerges to close.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus...-are-discovered

I agree w/you and the fact that many of the kids will be asymptomatic makes it even scarier.

Cuomo, in the beginning, was opposed to travel bans and shutting down his state. When things got out of control, he reacted (too late to save lives, though). Holding him up as some hero because he reacted like you would a normal human being would as things were falling apart around him is a little silly, imo.

He dropped the ball... not as bad as Trump did/is, but that doesn't make him worthy of praise.

Quoted for emphasis. I'll add that the 4 times I mentioned Trump in my post, each time it was in reverence to something that was factual with one sentence that was opinion.

He did downplay the virus. His supporters still repeat that CV19 is a hoax. He has stated that we should reduce testing and that we only have so many cases because we test so much .... Personally I'll stand by my opinion that Trump is pushing hard to get back to normal and open everything up because he thinks it's his only chance at reelection.

Other than to post some truly stupid comments, I haven't commented on individual city Mayors or Governors because none of them carry the same national influence as Trump.

Comparing NYC with it's high density, huge population and 3 enormous international airports that are gateways to the USA for an enormous number of world traveler ... To FL ? That doesn't seem to be a fair or equitable comparison, and I've never praised Cuomo or commented on him. Friends in Brooklyn felt he did a lot of good things but beyond that idk.

The virus was never Trump's fault. His reaction to it and the tone he sets to all his supporters he owns 100%.

Sorry but not too many people are calling him a hero, on his own merits anyway.

The problem is that he looks like a hero compared to the guy RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

I will admit, that’s not exactly a high bar to clear. However, it be like that sometimes. Oh well.

I don't know a single progressive that has called Cuomo a hero... I think you guys are watching too much MSNBC and CNN. That's the only people I know treating Cuomo like he handled things well. I think the difference is Cuomo was fairly straight forward with the public in making his decisions. Trump most certainly was not.

Here's what's hilarious about the entire thing. In the beginning of this thing, very little was known about the virus. As time went on more and more information became available. The CDC set guidelines accordingly that for a state to reopen you needed 14 days of decline in cases. Then you only went up in reopening levels after 14 more days of decline and so on.

Trump came out and told everyone to open up before they met these guidelines. Governors of Republican states especially new if they didn't they would reap the wrath of Trump. So they chose Trump over the CDC.

And now you see what we have now. While Trump undermines every health experts advice, they death count goes up. As he threatens to cut off funding to schools if they don't open up, the body count rises.

If anybody really thought about it... Remember when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose a vote?

What he's doing now would make that look like a misdemeanor.

j/c

31% of children tested for COVID-19 in Florida have been positive, state data shows

ORLANDO, Fla. —

State data shows that approximately one-third of the people under the age of 18 tested for COVID-19 in Florida have been positive.

According to state data released last Friday, Florida has tested 54,022 Florida residents under the age of 18. Of those tests, 16,797, which is just over 31%, have come back positive. The positivity rate for Florida's entire population stands at roughly 11%.

Florida has tested a total of 2,737,169 people, meaning that roughly 2% of the people tested in the state have been under 18.

The data shows that 908 people under the age of 18 have tested positive for coronavirus in Orange County, which equates to about 24% of the tests conducted on children in the county.

Orange County’s total pediatric cases are eclipsed in Florida only by Broward, Dade and Palm Beach counties.

Seminole County has seen 218 people under the age of 18 test positive, which is about 20% of the people under 18 tested. Osceola County has 257 positive pediatric tests and a pediatric patient positivity rate of 29%.

Of the pediatric cases in Florida, just about 1% have been hospitalized. Florida has reported four deaths of people under the age of 18.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has been pushing for Florida schools to reopen next month.

DeSantis said earlier this month that it’s not only a matter of getting a child the education they deserve, but making sure they have the social experience of classmates and extra-curricular activities.

“We need to give them the opportunity to go in person,” DeSantis said during a July 10 event in Jacksonville.

The governor added that if his kids were old enough to attend K-12 school he wouldn’t hesitate to send them, saying the risk for kids is “extremely, extremely low.”

https://www.wesh.com/article/spreading-l...f-love/33344149

QFT

Shocking. No one followed the CDCs advice but now the White House and Trump are trying to use CDC as a scapegoat. . . I actually wrote that in a post about 2 weeks ago. I guess not a very bild claim since Trump blames everyone else while taking no responsibility

I'm aware but in general people aren't running around touting what a great job DeBlasio did...

But your point is that I can't fault the governor of NY for what happened because he's not the mayor of NYC but it's legit to fault the President who is not even directly responsible for any cities or states?

This is from March 11...



Governor Cuomo on March 17


Three days later, when cases had gone from 200/day to over 3000/day, he issued the stay at home order...

Two weeks later, NY started seeing cases in the 9,000-10,000 per day range for a while...

From May 22



Yes, after spring break cases spiked in Florida... 12 weeks after spring break. That's one helluva a incubation period.

And who was travelling for spring break to Florida? Probably a bunch of old, white haired, Christian folk... or maybe a bunch of young, know-it-all, science loving, Trump hating college students.. I will have to look that up and get back to you.


You can bash Trump and "MY" people all you want. I thought their protests were stupid then and I think they are stupid now.

But if you think I'm going to sit here silent while folks, with the help of completely biased media accounts blast the stupidity of Trump and red state governors, while bending over backwards to find excuses for blue state governors, which account for far more cases and deaths.. then you are wrong.


How f'ing long was a state supposed to stay under lockdown when they had low/flat cases for months? Serious question.. we were told back in march TWO WEEKS to get the thing under control.. about 45 states had it under control for those two weeks while it raged in just a few.. some states kept it low for months yet were continually told, you need to stay locked down. WHY?

Read a study the other day that the countries that are still struggling to get the virus under control share a common theme.. they also rank very low in surveys of how much the people trust their government. so we have the dynamic in this country right now of a lot of people who just generally don't trust the government.. and a lot of people who just don't like or trust Trump... so basically nobody at this point trusts the federal government. So cases in the US rage on with other countries, like Brazil and India and South Africa...

that's the level we are on.... Trump owns a fair share of that blame as do the governors who have followed his lead... but he doesn't own much blame at all for NY/NJ contribution to the death toll..

other than MAYBE texas and florida, how many red states have a population density of NYC/NJ?

its easy to keep rates low when nobody lives there. that point you're trying to make just doesnt hold water, no matter how you try to frame it.

again, i said that the entire government didnt take this seriously at first. but i can credibly claim -and have- that nobody took it seriously because the people running the country didnt take it seriously.

and since you're a believer in trickle down economics, happy birthday; welcome to trickle down leadership.

In the early days of this I was getting data from worldometer and copying it into my own spreadsheet where I had inserted other information, population, population density, a variety of other things were being calculated and graphed... daily.

Population density isn't even a state level thing, it's a comparison of urban area to urban area and in a lot of cases, urban area specific information was very hard to find.

NY/NJ had a lot of cards stacked against them in the deck... population density is one, the number of international travellers who travelled to/and through NY/NJ is also extremely high. What are the major ports of entry for foreign travellers in the US? NY/NJ, Atlanta on the east cost... LA and San Fran on the west coast? Then other major cities have some share of the rest..

From the very beginning I've felt horrible for what happened in NY/NJ.. I was very proud when other states like Alabama, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina (probably others) were sending healthcare workers into NYC to help with the incredible case load.. I am genuinely very glad they got it under control (hope it stays that way)..

It wasn't until I started noticing that Chris Cuomo (the Governors brother) was having him on CNN to interview him almost every day, lobbing him softball questions so they could tout what a great job he was doing, even as 600-700 people per day were dying in NY.. then he started getting these national accolades for what he was doing.. that's when I was like "Wait a minute".. the dude royally screwed this up in the beginning and it's never getting mentioned.. so yea, I got a real problem with the accuracy of reporting on what the guy really did..

The countries who handled this best handled it from a national level instead of letting 50 governors and 200 mayors make up the rules for themselves as they went along, fighting with each other every step of the way. I'm a big states rights guy, I'm sure you know that... but this whole event called for stable and responsible leadership from the top to coordinate a unified plan that took the appropriate measures in NY/NJ while allowing SD/ND to do something else but the plan needed to be well coordinated and it wasn't.

Trump supporters are nothing if not devoutly loyal to Trump. If Trump had come out in early March and said "The big ones coming, protect yourselves and your family by staying isolated"... if he had said that, a lot of his supporters would still be in their homemade bunkers eating the rations they have been saving for years...

The interesting hypothetical for me is, if Trump would have done the right thing and expressed urgency as far back as March... I wonder what the Dems would have done? They weren't going to agree with him and run the risk of actually making him look like he was doing the right thing.. they would have still had to find fault with anything and everything he said.. the only real data point we have is back on January 31 when Trump declared coronavirus a public health emergency and restricted travel from China... the dems promptly called him a racist and said this was fear mongering and overreaction... Had he maintained that stance rather backing up into the "it's a hoax" posture, I'm curious what the Dems would have done.

How much was known about the virus in March and even in May compared to how much is known about it now? You seem to think some people should have had crystal balls while there are currently others denying and acting opposite to the things that are now known.

There's a difference even though you seem to have ignored that part of things to this point.

bro but you're missing so much context, so imma try to address different aspect of your response point by point....

i will give you this: it was getting pretty brown-nosey with cnn and msnbc as it relates to Cuomo.

but what was happening simultaneously? Trump and Fox news (ya know the #1 network in America), was trashing Cuomo and NYC every chance they got. threatened to pull funding and recourses because apparently they werent being respectful? remember that?

so putting up Cuomo on a pedestal seemed like a counter action to the Commander-in-tweet waging war against everything liberal and related to the virus.

im glad you brought up the travel aspect. because despite the initial fake outrage from the democrats, i agreed with trump on banning travel coming in from China.

here's the issue with that, though, and why Trump caught even more heat for it:

NYC and those cases came from Europe, not china. and look how slow Trump was to put a travel ban on Europe, SPECIFICALLY The UK. even when he did decide to place the EU on a TB, he tried to leave out the UK from that list.

so even if i give trump the benefit of the doubt, i cant credibly argue against those calling the policy racist, cause he banned some asians and didnt ban any white people.

^^^ i mean...come on bro. even you gotta admit that looks pretty shady...

as i told Erik, whatever the Dems MIGHT have done/said is irrelevant. as POTUS, trump is suppose to make the hard decisions, even when they arent popular, even if he gets pushback from it.

every single president prior to him has done exactly that. sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesnt.

but isnt that the problem with electing a reality tv personality as POTUS?

people have to start making up hypotheticals and spin jobs to counter the FACT that Trump simply doesn't know what he's doing. i mean for god's sake DC, obama left this dude a playbook he couldve followed.

it went from "no he didnt" to "it wasnt good enough". i forgot what the next lie was after that, seeing as i just cant keep up with all of them.

As i've stated plenty of times on this board: Trump isn't responsible for COVID, but he's absolutely responsible for the response.

Even though one is obviously more egregious than the other, if you're going to Monday morning QB Trump's early responses, you gotta also do the same for Cuomo.

Comparing Trump and Cuomo

Did both make what they think were the best decisions possible with the information that was available at that time? Yes

Did both make mistakes in their decisions? - Yes

Here is where the difference comes.

Cuomo realized he made some mistakes and adjusted the game plan resulting in a significant reduction of cases.

Trump refuses to acknowledge any errors in judgement. Instead of correcting his mistakes he continues to profess them as the answers. Result? Those states like Florida, Texas, Arizona, and California that followed him are now feeling the repercussions.

JMO

J/c

So the White House is blocking the CDC from testifying next week regarding school reopenings.... Yay transparency. Yay utilizing experts in their field to provide insight and knowledge.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html

J/c

So the White House is blocking the CDC from testifying next week regarding school reopenings.... Yay transparency. Yay utilizing experts in their field to provide insight and knowledge.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html

My point was his current response. Nothing has really changed in his response from day 1. He has given no direction to the country. He also ignored some very obvious steps along the way.

It's all been gone over time and time again.

When you're obviously lying about a national emergency on daily basis, that's a hard thing to hide when the evidence of your lies can be seen by the entire nation.

You would think the common sense measure to take would be to stop lying about it. To do the right thing. But not Trump. His answer is to hide the evidence so it will be harder to prove his lies.

Speaking of schools. Here is something I believe everyone should think about.

The Republican convention will be held next month in Jacksonville Florida. When it was first planned, all of the events were to be held indoors. Since that time they have moved many events outside because of the dangers connected to Covid 19.

Then Trump demands your children all attend schools indoors.

Please let that sink in for just a moment.

Balancing Act: 'Hardly any kids get COVID.' One dad's viral Facebook post brilliantly captures the bind parents are in over remote vs. in-person school
Chicago Tribune
Heidi Stevens, Chicago Tribune
,Chicago Tribune•July 20, 2020

Balancing Act: 'Hardly any kids get COVID.' One dad's viral Facebook post brilliantly captures the bind parents are in over remote vs. in-person school

CHICAGO — As school districts around the country roll out their plans for fall, many parents are tasked with choosing between 100% remote learning or a hybrid model that combines remote learning with a staggered in-person schedule.

On Friday, Chicago Public Schools announced a plan that calls for most students to attend school two days per week and learn from home the rest of the time. Families can decline in-person learning and opt for 100% online instruction if they prefer.

In Naperville District 203 and Indian Prairie District 204, parents can choose between an online academy or an option that has kids in school part-time.

Similar scenarios are playing out across the country.

It’s all a bit of a nightmare, and one that could have been avoided if we had a president who took the coronavirus seriously in January and instituted national guidelines for curbing its spread, along with ample testing and contact tracing.

But here we are, weighing expert guidance from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine that emphasizes the benefits of in-person learning against the very real concerns about exposing children and their teachers and families to a deadly virus.

Joe Morice, a dad in Fairfax County, Virginia, posted a thoughtful treatise on Facebook last week, five days before the deadline for parents in his district to choose which model their kids would be learning under for the fall.

“Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise,” Morice wrote. “You’ll get no presumption of expertise here.”

Morice wrote as a parent leaning toward sending his kids to school part-time, but having reservations. He listed a handful of arguments he’s hearing in favor of sending kids back to classrooms, along with his reasons for remaining skeptical of each one.

His post has been shared 22,000 times.

It struck a nerve, I think, because it gets at some of the nuances that all the expert advice, important as it is, doesn’t quite capture. Some of the highlights:

Argument: “My kids want to go back to school.”

“I believe what the kids desire is more abstract,” Morice wrote. “I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.”

Argument: “I want my child in school so they can socialize.”

“This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the fall?”

Argument: “My kid is going to be left behind.”

“Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is ‘They’ll be behind where they should be,’ to which I’ll counter that ‘where they should be’ is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.”

Argument: “Hardly any kids get COVID.”

“Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing,” Morice wrote. “But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece. One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least exposure to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people.”

Argument: “I’m not going to live my life in fear.”

“You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, ‘I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,’ and I’ve got news for you: That ship has sailed. It’s too late.

“Fear,” Morice continued, “is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.”

Every family brings its own needs and risk factors and economic realities and unique situations to this tremendously complicated decision. But I like Morice’s words and wanted to share them because they’re practical without being emotionless, frustrated without being resigned, empowering without being admonishing.

A tough balance, but one that feels like a lifeline for those of us in the thick of these decisions.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/balancing-act-hardly-kids-covid-093000119.html

j/c

Specifically with regard to schools reopening in other countries, I went looking for information or comparisons and found this interesting and useful:

https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/COVID-19%20Schools%20Summary%20%282%29.pdf?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTkRreE5XWXlORFF3TXpNeCIsInQiOiJIbVNQTTVySEo0Vzk1cHVBZVVqWnFGVmR1UEJxRGdpd01mTXg4OGw3Mk5nTnpmaUoyMGt2UXIwWVZBOE5GVjIybHA5aStrbzJ3MUxsanoxamZibmlocmpSbXZyVFVoV0VHYU1aTGx0RnpsMXlmOEtXSVJqaDJsZ0RJU1BQcVZjZSJ9

I had heard a segment on NPR about the struggles Israel had with their school re-openings so I was interested to see what infection rate they had in Israel compared to what we see trending in the USA currently .... it makes for some scary reding:

"Israel
As of early May, Israel had experienced fewer than 300 deaths from COVID-19 and the government reopened schools, along with restaurants and other public settings. Starting in early May, school reopening was initially implemented by opening classes in smaller groups or "capsules." By May 17,
limitations on class size were lifted.15 Two weeks after school re-opening, COVID-19 outbreaks were
observed in classrooms, including 130 cases in one school alone. By June 3, there were 200 confirmed
COVID-19 cases and over 244 positive SARS-CoV-2 tests among students and staff across multiple
schools. In response, the government ordered the closer of any school with a cases of SARS-CoV-2
infection. By June 8, 139 educational institutions had been indefinite closed out of 5,200 schools and
200,000 kindergartens.16"

I heard a segment this morning and a Dem politician from VA (Tim Kaine maybe?) was talking about how everyone WANTS kids in schools, everyone acknowledges they learn better and home schooling creates issues and pressures on parents ... but that it has to be done SAFELY. The way the US CV-19 cases are trending does anyone really think it's safe right now???? .... here's a response from Israel after their struggles: Dr. Arnon Afek, who is helping manage Israel's coronavirus response, played down the outbreak, saying a spike in cases was expected when schools reopened. "It wasn't a surprise," he said. "It happened also in South Korea and Singapore." ..... if schools are forced to open in full, we will hear the same spin from Trump when it all goes pear shaped.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/po...;pgtype=Article

Trump Leans on Schools to Reopen as Virus Continues Its Spread
President Trump spearheaded an administration-wide push to pry open the nation’s elementary and secondary schools, the next phase of his effort to get the economy on its feet.


President Trump on Tuesday at the White House. With children at home, many parents are unable to resume work, hindering the economic resurgence Mr. Trump hopes to elicit.
President Trump on Tuesday at the White House. With children at home, many parents are unable to resume work, hindering the economic resurgence Mr. Trump hopes to elicit.Credit...Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times
Peter BakerErica L. Green
By Peter Baker and Erica L. Green
Published July 7, 2020
Updated July 20, 2020, 10:04 a.m. ET

Follow our live coverage of the 2020 election between Joe Biden and President Trump.

WASHINGTON — President Trump demanded on Tuesday that schools reopen physically in the fall, pressing his drive to get the country moving again even as the coronavirus pandemic surged through much of the United States and threatened to overwhelm some health care facilities.


In a daylong series of conference calls and public events at the White House, the president, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos and other senior officials opened a concerted campaign to lean on governors, mayors and others to resume classes in person months after more than 50 million children were abruptly ejected from school buildings in March.

Mr. Trump and his administration argued that the social, psychological and educational costs of keeping children at home any longer would be worse than the virus itself. But they offered no concrete proposals or new financial assistance to states and localities struggling to restructure academic settings, staffs and programs that were never intended to keep children six feet apart or cope with the requirements of combating a virus that has killed more than 130,000 Americans.

“We’re very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools, to get them open,” Mr. Trump said at a forum at the White House. “It’s very important. It’s very important for our country. It’s very important for the well-being of the student and the parents. So we’re going to be putting a lot of pressure on: Open your schools in the fall.”

Education has long been a local issue, controlled by district school boards and state superintendents. Indeed, Mr. Trump campaigned in 2016 against efforts to nationalize education through programs like the Common Core State Standards. So beyond jawboning, it was unclear what power Mr. Trump had to force policymakers’ hands. He stopped short of threatening to withhold federal funding, a potentially effective but risky lever.


Instead, the president used his bully pulpit, which has been influential in steering parts of the country where he has support. Mr. Trump heaped scorn on Harvard University for “closing for the season” this fall. In fact, Harvard said mainly first-year students and some students in special circumstances would be invited to campus in the fall, then seniors would replace them in the spring. “I think it’s ridiculous,” Mr. Trump said. “I think it’s an easy way out, and I think they ought to be ashamed of themselves, if you want to know the truth.”

During an earlier conference call with governors, Ms. DeVos laced into school administrations that have done “next to nothing” to educate students during the pandemic. She also criticized specific districts “playing both paradigms” in planning a hybrid of in-person and online classes for the fall, singling out Fairfax County, Va., a suburb of Washington.

“A couple of hours a week of online school is not OK, and a choice of two days per week in the classroom is not a choice at all,” Ms. DeVos said, according to a recording of the call obtained by The New York Times.


The president’s focus on schools and colleges, freighted with campaign-season politics, came as the United States topped three million coronavirus infections and the vast majority of states were experiencing new spikes. In Florida, more than 40 hospitals reported having no more beds in their adult intensive care units. In Ohio, the governor ordered residents in seven counties to wear masks in public, including those containing Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland.


Eager to put the virus in his rearview mirror and focus blame elsewhere, Mr. Trump’s administration on Tuesday announced that it had formally notified the United Nations that the United States would withdraw from the World Health Organization next year in retaliation for its handling of the pandemic. And in a move to pressure colleges and universities that depend on full-tuition-paying international students for income, the administration moved to bar foreign students from returning to the United States if their schools stick with online classes only.

In demanding the resumption of schools, Mr. Trump waded into one of the most fraught issues confronting the country as it grapples with the deadliest pandemic in a century. Many parents, educators and doctors, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, have urged schools to reopen. But concerns remain high, especially among teachers who by virtue of age would be more vulnerable than the students.



The issue has enormous consequences for the economy as well as the upcoming election. With children at home, many parents are unable to resume work, hindering the economic resurgence Mr. Trump hopes to spur before the Nov. 3 vote. And so, like wearing masks, the issue of reopening schools has become one more battleground in the ferocious ideological wars that divide America.

Mr. Trump brushed off the rise in virus cases, pointing instead to lower death rates, and characterized those reluctant to reopen the schools as partisans trying to hurt him politically at the height of his re-election campaign this fall. “They think it’s going to be good for them politically, so they keep the schools closed,” he said. “No way.”

Critics said Mr. Trump was the one playing politics, willing to gamble the health of students and teachers to salvage a flagging bid for a second term.

“The reality is no one should listen to Donald Trump or Betsy DeVos when it comes to what is best for students,” said Lily Eskelsen García, the president of the National Education Association, the nation’s largest teachers’ union. She added: “Everything is about his re-election. Our No. 1 priority is that we keep our students safe.”

Her organization joined several others, including the National Parent Teacher Association and the American Federation of Teachers, in a joint statement saying that without a comprehensive plan for safety, “we could be putting students, their families and educators in danger.”

Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said on Tuesday that his agency had never advised schools to close across the board. But in March, the C.D.C. issued guidance recommending school closures of two to eight weeks in response to confirmed cases and high absenteeism, or as part of a larger mitigation strategy. In early March, the agency abruptly canceled a call with thousands of superintendents just minutes before it was to provide further clarity. Since then, the agency has issued conflicting guidance to frustrated educators who ultimately relied on their state leaders to make the call.

Ms. DeVos’s Education Department granted waivers from federal mandates, like standardized testing, and issued guidance for how to fund private schools and educate students with disabilities. But until now, she had largely left decision making to the states, even as educators have asked for advice from the federal government.

After what amounted to a fitful and largely unsatisfying nationwide experiment in distance learning last spring, many districts are looking for ways to reopen in the fall, perhaps through a hybrid model relying on both online and in-person learning, including New York City, the nation’s largest school district. So far, Texas and Florida have announced that in-person instruction will be a mandatory option in the fall.

In mounting their pressure campaign, administration officials pointed to guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatrics and other research suggesting that the risks of the virus to children are much lower than for older Americans while the benefits of being physically present in school are critical.

“Children get much more than an education from school,” said Dr. Sally Goza, the academy’s president, who joined Mr. Trump for his event. “Being away from peers, teachers and school services has lasting effects for children.”

On a call with reporters, administration officials said they were urging schools to make plans that anticipate cases while minimizing the risk of spread and the need for school closures. The officials said the biggest risk with reopening schools and colleges would be infected students transmitting the virus to someone more vulnerable.

Among the vulnerable are teachers: Nearly one-third of the nation’s public school teachers are 50 or older, according to federal data analyzed by the research group Child Trends, which also found that teachers have more social contacts than typical adults because of the time they spend with students.



During a call with governors, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos laced into school administrations for doing “next to nothing” to educate students during the pandemic.Credit...Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times
Ms. DeVos said education leaders needed to “examine real data and weigh risks,” which she said they did every day in normal circumstances, and went on to cite the other risks, such as widening achievement gaps, posed by long-term closures.

“Ultimately it’s not a matter of if schools need to open, it’s a matter of how,” Ms. DeVos said.

Education groups have released an array of plans for safely reopening schools, and some estimate they will need at least $200 billion in additional funding to meet public health requirements and stave off mass layoffs and programmatic cuts.

Those requests are stalled in Congress. But during the conference call with governors, Ms. DeVos said that of the $13.5 billion that has been allocated to school districts through the federal coronavirus rescue bill, only 1.5 percent, or $195 million, had been used by the states.

Ms. DeVos said she was “disappointed frankly in schools and districts that didn’t figure out how to serve students or that just gave up and didn’t try” during the pandemic.

She singled out Fairfax County, one of the wealthiest districts in the nation with a $3 billion budget, for offering parents a choice of some in-person classes or taking all of their courses online in the fall, after calling their distance learning this spring a “disaster.”

“This can’t happen again this fall,” she said. “It would really fail all of America’s students, and it would fail the taxpayers who are paying high taxes for education.”

In a statement, Fairfax County Public Schools said it was following local, state and federal guidance in developing its back-to-school plan, and “working hard to ensure that F.C.P.S. students will receive meaningful instruction — both virtually and in-person.”

“We would ALL prefer to have our school year, this fall, as a ‘normal’ in-person school year,” the district’s statement said. “However, the health and safety of our staff, our students and our community must outweigh all other factors.”

Florida Teachers Union sue governor over order to reopen schools. I would also now issue a strike notice if made to go back in person 5 days a week if proper safety measures are not addressed.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/world...s#link-3a65dbfe


Teachers unions sued Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida on Monday over his emergency order pushing schools to fully reopen next month even as coronavirus cases in the state are surging.

The suit, which appears to be the first of its kind across the country, sets up a confrontation between unions and politicians that could change the trajectory of school reopening over the coming weeks. In other parts of the country, including California and parts of Texas, many large school districts have concluded in recent days that it is not safe to hold in-person classes. But Mr. DeSantis, a Republican, has been pushing for things to be different in Florida, which is home to five of the country’s 10 largest districts.

Earlier this month, Mr. DeSantis’s administration ordered schools across the state to reopen five days a week starting in August. His edict came as Mr. Trump called for schools to reopen nationwide and threatened to cut federal funding for districts that did not teach in person.

The American Federation of Teachers, the nation’s largest teachers union, and its local affiliate, the Florida Education Association, accused Mr. DeSantis of violating a Florida law requiring that schools be “safe” and “secure.” The unions, along with parent and teacher plaintiffs, asked a state court in Miami to block the governor’s reopening order and allow local school superintendents and health departments to have full control over reopening decisions.

This nation is in a sad state of affairs and our children and teachers are being used like a pawn in a chess match.

If only we had more educators on the board to speak up for them.

Almost one-third of Florida children tested are positive for the coronavirus

https://thehill.com/changing-america/wel...QYWcsyVXwOqEbzA

It should be clear to anyone that the only reason Trump is pushing so hard to open schools and business as usual is because of his fear that not doing that will hinder his chance at re-election

What Trump didn't think of is that he had a chance, a really big chance to prove he is "for the people". And he blew it.

Nobody I know blames him for the virus itself.. Everyone knows he wasn't sitting in a lab in Wuhan China mixing batches of the virus... we all know that.

So the only thing left is to evaluate how he handled it when any mental midget could have seen it could land here.

He took no precautions, he had no thought of how to handle it.

That's where he goofed up.

He's a moron and as a result, many Americans have died and will die because of his inactions and lies.

IDIOT

Most sane people know that NOBODY was at a lab in Wuhan China mixing batches of the virus.

Most people are not sane.

Conway Won’t Say If Barron Trump Will Return to School

July 17, 2020 at 11:34 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 145 Comments

Kellyanne Conway could not say whether 14-year-old Barron Trump will be returning to school in the fall, citing that it’s President Trump and Melania Trump’s “personal decision” to let him go or not, Mediaite reports.

Said Conway: “That’s a personal decision. I don’t know what Barron’s school has decided and I certainly do not know what the first couple has decided in respect to their teenage son who I believe is entering high school this year.”

https://politicalwire.com/2020/07/17/conway-wont-say-if-barron-trump-will-return-to-school/

Sometimes I pity this kid having to grow up as their son.

I would be willing to bet that Barron's private school qualifies for federal tax dollars either.

Would that be a problem?

Since Trump has threatened to cut all federal funding to schools, you tell me? It's a lot easier to force people into doing things when it doesn't apply to you.

It's also a lot easier to get state and local governments to comply when you threaten to cut off some of their funding.. that's a government trick that goes back many decades.

Which is why I'm not a fan of sending money to the federal government and giving them control over whether or not they send it back.. but that's a different topic.

As far as I know the only federal funding Barron's private school would get is subsidies for kids who can't afford the tuition and subsidies for kids who can't afford lunch.... which is why I asked how big of a deal this is.

I just found out that his school must be in terrible financial trouble...

Private school attended by Barron Trump to keep Paycheck Protection Program loan

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/barron-trump-private-school-loans-coronavirus/index.html

Doesn't mean they are in terrible financial trouble but I'm glad they were able to continue to pay their staff and provide the educational assistance to the less fortunate kids that go there.

And I'm sure CNN had no political motive what-so-ever in singling out that one school... where Trump's son goes... to run a story about it. That's one more story than they've run about Jessica Doty Whitaker.

Let me tell you what it is. It's a prime example of why the people who really needed the PPP money didn't get any. Because places like that had already soaked it up.

Indiana woman shot dead after saying ‘all lives matter': family

A young mother was fatally shot earlier this month in Indiana and may have been targeted for saying “all lives matter,” the 24-year-old’s family said Sunday.

Jessica Doty Whitaker and three friends were hanging out along the Indianapolis Canal Walk at about 3 a.m. on July 5, WXIN-TV reported.

They argued with another group after one of the people Whitaker was with used a racial slur, her bereaved fiancé, Jose Ramirez, told WXIN.

A racially charged confrontation ensued with the other group, during which the suspect’s group shouted, “Black Lives Matter,” and someone in Whitaker’s group — possibly her — said, “all lives matter,” Ramirez said.

Guns were whipped out, and both sides, seeing that all were armed, backed off, he said.

“It was squashed, and they went up the hill and left, we thought, but they were sitting on St. Clair waiting for us to come under the bridge, and that’s when she got shot,” Ramirez told WXIN.

He fired off a shot in return, but didn’t hit anyone, he said.

“I was actually holding her when it happened,” Ramirez told WTHR-TV. “She just fell. I turned around, and I opened fire too. But that’s just a reaction.”

Whitaker, a home health nurse who WTHR said was on the verge of going back to school and getting married, leaves behind a 3-year-old son as well as her fiancé, mother and numerous other family members.

The shooting was the third in a week in the same area, WTHR reported.

Her bereaved family is left picking up the pieces — and vowing to keep Whitaker in her son’s heart forever.

“I’m never going to get to hold her again,” her mom, Arlena Doty, told WTHR. “I just want the people who are responsible to be held accountable.”

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/n...7dnu-story.html


Do you mean that Jessica Doty Whitaker that was hanging out with a group of friends on a canal walk at 3 AM yelling racial slurs passers by? The same two groups that all drew their guns on each other minutes before the racially charged shooting? Sorry this girl got killed but it all sounds like thugs with guns on both sides to me.

I have one of my children left in high school.

We have a new superintendent this year.

We got the call yesterday "that we are proud to be bringing back the children to 5 days a week in person to school with safety measures. We will be having a zoom meeting about it on August 4th, but we are sending you a postcard to fill out and send back asap on Monday July 28 and we would like the cards back for the meeting to know who will still be attending. We will have full school experience including busing. For those who may not want to enjoy the school experience, we will have a remote learning option-

And at that meeting, if you submit questions, we will answer what we can at that timeframe. Hope to see you back in August.

I don't know if my wife was ready to put a hole thru the wall or cry.

Absolutely no answers other than they will pick up K-6 on the bus 45 minutes early and dismiss them 45 minutes early and have a separate bus run for 7-12.

It was very lame

It's too dangerous for Republicans to hold a convention indoors but not to dangerous to fill up school rooms and send them back out into the public. People need to seriously let that sink in for a minute.

I've not heard one republican respond to this other than to say that Kids will recover and be OK if they get Covid. What's never addressed is what about if they bring it home to Mom or Dad or siblings or Grandparents... NOTHING said,, Nothing Explained

Some things are better left unsaid I suppose.

What about teachers, office staff, lunch room staff, bus drivers, maintenance, school nurse...at least at our school, the majority of these folks are older than 50.

And substitute teachers, they normally go from school to school until they get a long term assignment.

Lawyers in Florida offering free wills for teachers-and the requests are pouring in


https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-lawyers-offer-free-wills-for-teachers-schools-re-open-2020-7?utm_source=feedburner&%3Butm_medium=referral&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider%2Ftravel+%28Business+Insider%29

Not to mention the families that these students go home to.

Collateral damage?

Thats ok; just sign this liability waiver

j/c:

Report: Coronavirus infected scores of children and staff at Georgia sleep-away camp
The finding that children 'might play an important role in transmission’ is likely to fuel debates about whether to reopen schools.

By
Chelsea Janes
July 31, 2020 at 1:50 p.m. EDT


A new report suggests that children of all ages are susceptible to coronavirus infection and may also spread it to others — a finding likely to intensify an already fraught discussion about the risks of sending children back to school this fall.

The analysis, released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, details an outbreak at a sleep-away camp in Georgia last month in which 260 children and staffers — more than three-quarters of the 344 tested — contracted the virus less than a week after spending time together in close quarters. The children had a median age of 12. The camp had required all 597 campers and staff members to provide documentation that they had tested negative for the virus before coming. Staff were required to wear masks, but children were not.

While similar clusters have occurred around funerals, weddings, teenage parties and adult gatherings throughout the pandemic, few super-spreading events have been documented among children.

The report is likely to add fuel to an already polarizing nationwide discussion about whether sending children back to crowded school buildings is worth the risk, in large part because so little data has been available about children’s vulnerability to the infection and their ability to transmit the virus.



“To me, this is a significant weight added to the side of the scale that says close the schools,” said Andrew Noymer, an epidemiologist at the University of California at Irvine. While he added that children probably spend more time in close proximity at sleep-away camp than they do at school, “it’s solid evidence to suggest we should be extremely cautious about opening schools.”

The Trump administration has pushed in recent weeks for schools to reopen, while many states and major cities — including D.C. — have announced they will resume online-only to begin the year. “I do say again, young people are almost immune to this disease. The younger the better,” President Trump said Thursday during a White House briefing. “They’re stronger. They have a stronger immune system.”



Advocates of reopening schools for in-person instruction argue that early research shows children are less prone to infection and severe outcomes from the virus than adults are. While data continues to support that idea, little had been known about the extent to which children could transmit it — particularly when they are not showing symptoms.

According to the report released Friday, the outbreak at the camp, identified only as “Camp A,” suggests that children “might play an important role in transmission.”

“These findings demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 spread efficiently in a youth-centric overnight setting, resulting in high attack rates among people in all age groups, despite efforts by camp officials to implement most recommended strategies to prevent transmission,” the report said.

“Asymptomatic infection was common and potentially contributed to undetected transmission, as has been previously reported. This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection.”

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The CDC released a separate statement with a headline about “the importance of CDC mitigation strategies,” rather than about the incident’s implications for viral transmission in children. The statement noted that by not requiring campers to wear masks or airing out cabins, the camp had not followed CDC reopening guidance, and it pointed to “daily vigorous singing and shouting” as potential contributing factors.

“Correct and consistent use of cloth masks, rigorous cleaning and sanitizing, social distancing, and frequent hand-washing strategies, which are recommended in CDC’s recently released guidance to reopen America’s schools, are critical to prevent transmission of the virus in settings involving children and are our greatest tools to prevent covid-19,” the statement read.

Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, wrote in an email that she would like to see data from camps where children wore masks and whether they fared better.


“To me, this outbreak reinforces the importance of mitigation measures in classrooms and child-care settings,” Rivers wrote. “Physical distancing, mask use by students and teachers, hygiene and ventilation will all be critical to reducing risk for classrooms that do reopen in person."

Noymer also noted that many school officials say they will require students, as well as teachers, to wear masks. But skeptics point out that children are unlikely to be diligent mask-wearers or social distancers, so reopening plans that include those measures in theory may not have them in actuality.

Authors of the CDC report noted that the study was limited by its data set, which includes tests of only 344 of the campers and staffers, and therefore could be missing cases. In addition, since Georgia experienced a jump in coronavirus transmission over the summer, some campers may have caught the virus before arriving. The CDC report acknowledged that it could not determine which campers did and did not adhere to recommendations for physical distancing, which also limits the kind of conclusions that can be drawn from the data.


Tara Smith, an epidemiologist at Kent State University, acknowledged that some data missing from the study — including detailed tracking of which infected children spent time around others and for how long — limits the extent to which the study can be used to draw specific conclusions, but it does suggest that more outbreaks could center on children the more they are in close proximity.

“I think what it shows is that kids definitely can be infected with this, apparently can spread this,” Smith said. “I think when we get kids back into their normal social networks, we’re going to see more of these.”

The Georgia camp had opened in two phases, according to the report: An orientation for 138 trainees and 120 staffers occurred June 17 through June 20. A total of 363 campers and three senior staffers joined on June 21. On June 23, a teenage staffer left after developing chills and subsequently tested positive for the coronavirus.

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Camp officials began sending campers home June 24 and closed the camp on June 27.

Of those who were tested and came up positive, 231 were age 17 or younger; the remaining 29 were adults. Data about symptoms was available for only 136 patients: About a quarter, or 36 people, reported no symptoms; 100 children and staff members (74 percent) reported symptoms, including fever (65 percent), headache (61 percent) and sore throat (46 percent).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/

But Trump just said that children were immune so everything will be just fine.

I didn't feel purple was necessary here.

I wish the school districts would do more to help out families like give us some vouchers so that we can provide our children with better online educational resources or tutoring. These additional resources are needed in order to ensure a quality education when the classrooms are shutdown.

Thus far, the schools and their employees have not had to make sacrifices like their private sector counterparts who have had to deal with pay reductions and layoffs, but they have no experience with distance education and are not able to deliver a valuable product ad-hoc. It takes a lot of time and experience to deliver good online education.

If I were to put an honest value on the education that they were delivering for elementary school kids, I would say that it was close to $0. That is not intended as an insult, it is just reality. Keeping 7 year olds engaged for 6 hours over Zoom is a fruitless endeavor. At the end of the day, Mom and Dad end up bearing the burden of this education and in addition to our jobs, we were spending 3 to 4 hours a day teaching our kids. For the time invested, I honestly felt like it would have been better for all if we just purchased $10 workbooks and used those instead of the teacher provided electronic resources. When a $10 workbook is an upgrade to the services that you are providing, it is time to rethink your business model.

Again, not intended to insult any education professionals. We had a teacher for our youngest child that was clearly trying her best, and I appreciated the effort, but it wasn't paying off. Our kids were getting no value from the Zoom based education. Everything they learned was from hands on education time with Mom and Dad.

J/C

Finally feel like sharing some thoughts on this as an educator myself.

Saddens me that we spent the entire summer arguing about "reopening".

Schools will reopen. I don't know of a single school that isn't going to try and educate children for this coming school year. Districts will reopen in various capacities across the nation. Some places may be able to have in-person schooling while most places will probably still be online. We're an evidence driven profession, and it only makes sense for school districts to listen to facts and evidence from healthcare professionals in their localities.

I would've loved to see a national response this summer to figure out a better system than what we had from March to June across the entire country. But no, a bunch of unqualified bureaucrats distracted from finding a solution in order to manufacture a crisis about schools not "reopening". Just imagine if we would've turned to the actual professionals, educators and doctors, at a national level to figure out a way we could've made schooling better under a pandemic.

I'm certain there's districts who did try, yet I wish the national messaging recognized there needed to be a better federal plan for sustainable education under a pandemic.

But Trump said children are immune to the virus?

But his lips were moving when he said it. Hell even Bubba J, and Walter think they can catch corona after Trump told them they couldn't.

Only it's already a proven fact that kids can and do catch the virus and spread it. But hey, that's okay, right?

But what about all the crying you did about the need to listen to the Scientists and Doctors???

CDC warns Congress of ‘significant public health consequences’ if schools don’t reopen in the fall
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/cdc-warn...n-the-fall.html

I know of many districts who delivered meals, provided tons of mental health services virtually, and many educators who did everything they could to teach in the new normal.

Instead of spreading politicized nonsense, how about you actually stick to experts?

Oh right, you won't do that. You feel oppressed as a white man posting on a right-leaning message board.

memp..concerning the Gates comment about kids being in school, the full context should be considered...

If a reader wants read the entire Bill Gates comment, in full context, Gates does stipulate that the school must be able in insure the safety of "the teacher", if the school wants such a program to be successful.
Gates said...“I’m a big believer that for young children, the benefits in almost every location — particularly if you can protect the teachers well-"

We need to be careful, I heard of a study that says children could contain higher amounts of Covid, per resperitory droplet

And somehow you weigh this against the safety of Children.

Really?

Sending kids back to classes is like sticking our tongue in a light socket.

The CDC are experts on diseases. I therefore listen to them when it comes to diseases.

It may take a village to raise a child but it will take an entire vineyard to home school one.

LOL I know many folks who were home schooled by choice by sober parents...... well at least by parents who were sober during the day.

Time for school.

j/c

260 Gwinnett County school employees not working due to positive COVID-19 tests, exposure

GWINNETT COUNTY, Ga. - Around 260 employees of the Gwinnett County Public Schools have either tested positive for COVID-19 or are quarantining due to possible exposure from a case of the virus, officials with the school system say.

Speaking with FOX 5, the school system confirmed that approximately 260 employees "had been excluded from work" as of Thursday, July 30.

These numbers come as Gwinnett County teachers began to return to work last Wednesday to prepare for the state of the school year on Aug. 12.

Officials say that the number of employees affected is "fluid" as staff members return to work and new reports come in.

"Through tracing, we know that the majority of these cases are the result of community spread, meaning we have people who have called in to report they are positive or a contact who have not been at school or work," a spokesperson for Gwinnett County schools said.

Since the start of the pandemic, the county has been one of the most hit by the spread of the novel coronavirus. As of Sunday afternoon, a total of 17,781 cases have been confirmed from the outbreak's start with 1,996 total hospitalizations and 260 total deaths from the virus.

Hundreds of Gwinnett County School teachers had previously demanded the school system give them an option to work from home. A recent petition for the option had received thousands of signatures. However, several teachers say they were told teachers must work in person starting last week.

One teacher, Ashley Newman, resigned after requesting leave to keep herself and her 4-year-old daughter out of a classroom. Her request was denied.

"The only reason it was denied is because her school is currently open. They’re only accepting it for schools that are closed," she said.

"The district originally indicated that some employees may be able to work from home, however, due to leave options available, those opportunities are very limited," the school system said in a statement.

The school system has acknowledged the number of employees but said that "it would be expected to see positives among our employees" due to the number of COVID cases in the county.

Officials also highlighted precautions such as requiring masks and guidelines for cleaning facilities in case someone tests positive. The school system also says it has a protocol when employees test positive or there are two or more related cases.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/260-gwi...-tests-exposure

Things are off to a great start!

Where is trump’s fire brigade to put out the COVID-19 sparks that he promised? Must be playing golf. Pffft.

Yes, with Humpty Dumpty. Trump couldn't put him back together again either...

j/c

These Tennessee school districts are already reporting COVID-19 cases after reopening

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/ed...ses/3296529001/

Brownsburg, Plainfield schools latest to report positive cases of COVID-19 Indiana

https://www.wishtv.com/news/coronavirus/brownsburg-high-school-reports-positive-case-of-covid-19/

Harlem High School student tests positive for COVID-19 Georgia

https://www.augustachronicle.com/news/20...V9fIX4udp6jbgZM

Thales Academy 4th grade in Wake Forest under quarantine after student tests positive for coronavirus North Carolina

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/thales-...3E9OYTu5HlaJ1xw

COVID-19 case triggers closure of one Sixes Elementary classroom

https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/local_...JK8rfJ3myjh3ilc

And so it begins.

This is all Trump's idea!

Let one kid die over being forced to go back to school and it will be Trump's fault.

Any idiot can analyze the situation and determine whether it's a good idea to send kids back to school at a time when the U.S. death rate is 1000 or more per day, at this time.

So, what are the governors doing? You know, the people that run their individual state? Why is it some how Trump's fault? I guarandamntee you if Trump mandated schools not open, the same people bitching about him now would bitch about his mandate.

Let the DAMN governors make decisions for their state.

j/c...

Trump transitioned from this..read below...


Trump encourages governors to 'seriously consider' reopening schools

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-encourages-governors-reopening-schools/story?id=70369592

Transitioned to this...

Trump doubles down on threat to cut funding for schools that don’t reopen
By Yaron SteinbuchJuly 10, 2020 | 9:06am

https://nypost.com/2020/07/10/trump-doubles-down-on-threat-to-cut-funding-for-closed-schools/


It would be great if Trump allowed the governors to make the decision to open the schools in their state..OR NOT PUT KIDS LIVES AT RISK FOR TRUMPS POLITICAL PREFERENCES..!

What if I were to encourage you to jump off a bridge, against your better judgment.....Would you jump? Or would you be a responsible person?

Never mind.

arch...when you have been proven wrong, just do the grownup thing and admit it, instead of resorting to "silly" comments.

He wasn't proven wrong. Your bias is on full display. As always.

I will do that. But first, you need to prove me wrong. All you've shown so far is the governors have no balls. And I'll add this: Had Obama been president, you'd love everything he did, even if it was the exact same thing Trump has done.

Trump doesn't run the states. Your, and others, hatred of Trump is really pathetic. Makes you look a fool, really.

If Trump said "no in person school", you and a few others on here would be bitching to high heaven about that. Just like when he said no travel to or from China. Idiots called him a xenophobe..............and a month later they called him stupid for not banning all over seas travel.

I'm sure you can't see how ignorant your positions are, or how 2 faced, and biased they are. You're out for 1 thing: And it sucks that you are like that, but, I know you are.

I promise, if Trump came up with the cure for cancer tomorrow, you'd bitch that "he must have known years ago."

If ignorance is bliss, dude, you are living in Eden. Get a grip! It doesn't matter what Trump says or does, you, about 10 others on here, and the msm rip him. It gets old.

I live in a highly democratic area of the state. The school polled all the parents and 80% wanted to return to school. I’m pretty sure those parents aren’t deciding on what Trump says.

Here it is.





Personally, I would not re-open the schools if it were my choice. I taught for a long time and the last seven years were in elementary schools. I saw first-hand just how nasty so many kids are. Sneezing on keyboards, picking their noses, grabbing food from others, coughing w/out covering their mouths, etc, etc. The spread of any disease jets through entire schools each and every freaking year.

However, I do get that a lot of parents want their kids back in school because they can't afford child care while they are working. What's a parent to do?

I don't know what it is like nationally and I guess I am asking, but where I live, the school districts are providing a choice for parents. Your child can return to school or opt to take courses on-line, like they were last spring. Is that not an option in most school districts?

There are no easy answers to this. I just get irritated that folks resort to making everything so political. If there was a Dem in office, the right would be trashing that person for opening the schools.

It's like too many really don't care about the circumstances and consequences and instead, use each and every bit of news as a political bargaining chip.

That's so freaking lame.

This is the county next to me.
My county is doing online school.

Paulding currently has fewer cases of covid per day than my county. So it will be interesting to see if that changes.

So, you're saying that there are some democrats that want their kids in school? I think you live in Ohio, correct?

So, despite what some on here say, even democrats want their kids in school, and it doesn't matter what Trump wants?

Odd, isn't it?

So we can all assume that Trump is ticked off that Baron's school is reopening, correct?

Yes, I live in the Youngstown area.

Our local schools are doing both so parents that want can opt out. The problem with all online schools is the kids on ieps and those with other disabilities get short changed. My youngest graduated last year so I don’t have to decide what to do when it comes to school. She will be attending Kent and most of her classes will be online. She was going to stay home and commute to save us money. We talked her into going and living on campus because we don’t want her to miss out on the college experience. Hopefully that decision doesn’t bite us in the ass.

Almost all of the schools around here are also offering 'in person", or, at the parents discretion, on line. K-12.

I'm not hip to the college experience when it requires $5200 per semester due to the u of Tol requiring frosh and sophomores living on campus to 'get the college experience" Bull. They care about the money they get from room and board. Period.

That college experience? 5200 times 4 semesters. Almost $21,000 for a 'college' experience. For 2 years.

On a lighter note, I know several kids that go to Kent state.

So, why all the Trump bashing if parents have a choice to either send their kids to school or choose the on-line option?

It's a rhetorical question. LOL

Btw------------not that you would welcome my advice, but I have big-time doubts about how safe the "college experience" will be this year.

Vers, you have no idea on my thoughts on this. When we moved her in Monday, we had 2 hours. Her 3 room mates had 2 hour intervals. Gotta be safe, right?

Yet, in less than 2 weeks, it will be safe for her and 3 others to live together?


Get your food at one of the dining halls, but you can't eat it there.

4 of her classes are on line only, the 5th class has gone from in person, to on line, and back to in person.

But, gotta live on campus. For the 'college experience'.

I know your thoughts, arch. And I agree w/them. It's total BS.

This probably won't make you any happier, but I was listening to a show about college athletics and they said that universities are having students returning to campus so they can justify playing football again this fall.

This entire thing is so messed up........

I feel bad for those of you who have kids who are still in school. I would seriously consider having my child sit out this upcoming year. We all know that the kids are not going to be practicing safe practices. That is not an indictment on them. It's just the way it is.

If any of my grandkids get this crap and die, y'all better have me arrested immediately because there will be no safe space for those forcing kids back to school when the body count starts piling up.

I agree with both of you on this as well. Glad there's some things we can come together on during a global pandemic.

Tomorrow's headline: "hell freezes over."

Does she have to live there, or just pay to live there? Can she still stay home? Just curious.

Who is "forcing" kids back to school?

So far two of their schools are going plan 'A', mandatory in person classes. The only option is to opt out for the year and be held back or seek private education.

IF they struggle, then they consider hybrid options and online only. smh

That's being forced in my book and I'm furious about it.

j/c

People can say what they will. But whether anyone has been "forced" in going back to school or not, we do have a president pushing the notion and threatening to cut off funding for schools who do not.

The fact is the poorest schools get the most federal funding and can not afford to lose it. The fact is that minorities have a higher rate of Covid infections than anyone else.

If you're trying to deflect away from that and ignoring that... If you're trying to blame others for pointing these things out, then shame on you.

I keep reading this on here. but when I looked at these statistics, it looks like infections are inline with % of population in each state with only a couple exceptions. Ohio pretty much being the one that is most out of line.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-cases-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&selectedRows=%7B%22states%22:%7B%22all%22:%7B%7D%7D%7D&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

I've been using sources such as the CDC for guidelines on the matter.

Health Equity Considerations and Racial and Ethnic Minority Groups

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/race-ethnicity.html

Here is a link to their data tracker.

https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#demographics

It's hard to explain over 20% of the cases and over 22% of deaths being attributed to blacks who are only 13% of the population.

Here's an article from the AMA

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care...t-hard-covid-19

I'm somewhat leery of getting information from news sources but feel much more comfortable when it comes from nationally established and respected health experts. Well, they were respected unto just lately anyway.

j/c

Over 100 people quarantined in Mississippi school district after several test positive for coronavirus

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ove...zBKxzKUOTGgaGA8

Also, trying to portray one area as being the norm, it's not so. I live in a country that is highly supportive of Trump. Here over 40% of parents have opted for virtual learning.

I think everyone would agree Trump is eager to get kids back in schools and schools opening and operating in a more traditional way than remote based learning?

The President carries a lot of weight - his words deeply impact the people who support him. It seems many of his supporters trust and believe him more than the science. And when he posts and then doubles down on claims and statements that kids are virtually immune to CV-19 (something patently not true) I think it's fair to say there is much pressure for kids to go back to school. Whether someone interprets that as being 'forced' idk.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/05/899558311...en-and-covid-19

I imagine a Trump supporter might try and suggest that kids seem to be less likely to contract the virus - I think that's true and they seem to have less serious symptoms ... but we don't know what the long term repercussions of this virus are and I wonder how many kids of school age are obese or grossly obese and what are their risks with regard to CV-19?

I think with the health of our future generations we should be approaching everything with caution and base every decision 100% on safety ... and that's not even looking at the potential impact on senior teachers who may well be at elevated risks.

Once they leave school, they spread the virus just as effectively as an adult.

So, the kids AREN'T being forced back to school?

Forced is a difficult thing to say. So no, I wouldn't go as far as to say that. However there are many school districts that avid Trump supporters run that don't have a choice.

But let's also not be naive about the reality of the situation.

When you threaten to cut off federal funding to schools who really need that money, you are certainly applying heavy pressure. When you have a base of people who believe you, look to you for leadership and you are lying to them to help boost confidence in something, you are certainly holding a great influence over them as well as giving them a sense of false confidence.

So while I certainly won't say Trump is forcing anyone to go to school, I also won't absolve him of what he has done.

I will also ask you this. When has a president ever called a national health emergency yet had no national plan to address that emergency? Absolving responsibility isn't the same thing as not having had a responsibility to fill.

And in actuality he had a task force in place that gave out a plan. He in turn undermined that plan by advising politicians to ignore those guidelines. So his plan seemed to be to ignore the plan.

I've never heard of that and I'm getting rather tired if seeing people making excuses for it.

The end.

Except for the fact that governors have the say. And local school districts are offering options as well.

Yes the governors have the say. I know you had to put "the end" in there because an actual discussion of the topic wouldn't be in your best interest. I answered your question yet you ignored mine. That's what passes as a discussion to you.

That's what I get for trying to be civil to you. I'll know better next time.

I don't care if you think you are civil to me or not.

Check this out: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cma.asp

Just as you insinuated that Trump makes the call on schools, you've also insinuated that the fed. gov't. funds schools.

From the article:

https://www.governing.com/topics/education/gov-state-education-spending-revenue-data.html

https://people.howstuffworks.com/can-president-cut-school-funding.htm

From THIS article:

Once again, in your willy nilly anti trump rhetoric, you take the msm headline and think it is correct. While in fact, it is not correct.........but that sure as hell doesn't stop you from spreading lies. And I'm being civil.

https://sellingtoschools.com/education-management/federal-education-funding-explained/

Arch - which part of this and Trump's influence do you disagree with?

Heard this on the radio on my way home from work about 20 minutes ago.

They reported that a 7 year old with no other health issues died of coronavirus today.
I have not confirmed the veracity

Lord I hope that report is wrong and that no parent just lost their 7 year old.

If true that story it is tragic for that family.
It's also a harbinger of disaster with the reopening of schools if not done correctly and safely. How to do it correctly and safely I have no idea.

ATLANTA — State officials confirmed Thursday the death of a 7-year-old boy in Chatham County due to COVID-19.

The only information about the boy released by the state was in its COVID-19 deaths data. That data showed that he was a Black child with no chronic conditions.

RELATED: Teen becomes youngest death due to COVID-19 recorded in Georgia

"Yes, unfortunately it is true. It is included in the deaths listed by county on the website. That’s all the information we can provide due to HIPAA and concerns about confidentiality," Georgia Department of Public Health spokeswoman Nancy Nydam said in an email to 11Alive.

The boy becomes Georgia's youngest death and the first small child. Previously, a 17-year-old in Fulton County was the state's only death of a minor. That teenager was listed as having chronic conditions.

Deaths in young children due to the coronavirus have so far been rare, with provisional CDC data showing roughly 45 deaths attributed to COVID-19 in children under the age of 15 nationally.

Confirmation of the Chatham County boy's death comes as Georgia surpassed on Thursday 4,000 total deaths over the course of the pandemic.

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/hea...1c-623851e34f95

I suppose there are some people that believe trump no matter what. Same as there are some people that believe Pelosi..........or any other politician.

I am not one of those people.

Thanks. That's not what I said at all - but thanks.

So, what DID you say? Make it concise, and clear.

Yet, you guys don't want to talk about all the children that are being killed daily by gang-related violence. What about the parents who have lost their children due to drive-by shootings? Don't they count?

Once again, I think people are using this virus for political gain. And that is very sad. People are dying and we should be trying to unite as a country. But, let's not unite and instead, use the virus as a sounding point for political gain.

Shame on all of you.

Person: man, i hope we don't lose any more kids to cancer.

Vers: excuse me? what about heart disease? do those adults who lose their lives to heart disease not matter? don't they count? Sick of people using cancer for political gain. adults are dying, but insead, people wanna talk about kids with cancer just for cool points.

freaking peasants.

That was dumb as hell.

Tell your president that. And SHAME ON YOU for scolding people who are worried about these kids and NOT MAKING a political point but saying how ridiculous it is to try to rush them back to school in the middle of this tragedy. I'm telling you bro, better not be one of my grandkids we read about next. I will not be a stable individual in that scenario. I feel so bad for that kid and his family.

We've been through this. Trump is not forcing kids back to school. It's just another lie that you guys are forcing down people's throats.

I had a beautiful student who was raped and murdered in a parking lot by 3 gang members. No one gives a damn about that. No one gives a damn about the dozens and dozens of innocent children who are killed by stray bullets from these filthy gang-bangers.

Pack sand, w/your fake outrage!

LOL, Pit even admitted as much. Trump is NOT forcing kids back to school. As I posted earlier, he can't, first of all, and secondly, he can't stop the 8% funding of schools the fed. gov't. does. He can't.

Governors are in control of their states, but idiots don't want to realize that. And further, MOST schools are offering on line education if that's what the parents want. And pit even admitted that.

But, outrage at trump trumps the day, week, month, last 4 years. Lies, falsehoods, and just made up stuff. Pathetic.

If people would go after trump for real things, and not made up b.crap, maybe I'd listen. As it is, they blame trump for things they support.

TRUMP is absolutely forcing kids back to school with political pressure to get the damn economy going. How much are your kids worth? Are they worth saving a few billionaires and corporations from bankruptcy? I think not. Are their lives worth sacrificing for Trump to get re-elected? I think not.

I know you love your kids and they are grown, but imagine them as primary school age, would you send them to school during this?

You don't comprehend anything other than hate trump. I feel pity for you.

I don't want your damn pity for that, I'm happy to HATE his ass. He is a horrible human and a disgusting politician. DEPLORABLE is the perfect description. And I know I'm on the right side of history, so pity yourself Arch, you're the one that needs help.

And BTW, it's called focus. I'm focused on helping to get rid of him. Been a rough 3 years but it finally seems to be catching on... *see recent polling.

You, and others, have been jacking your jaw for 4 years. Dude, you look the fool. You act the fool.

Hardly. I might look like that from inside that trumpian mindset, but I'm a nazi nose punching patriotic American cut from the same cloth as the warriors who defeated Hitler in a different set of circumstances. I would and will go to war against fascism in America, all day, every day.

You would help usher it in... that says all I need to know about you and your opinions.

But you know what I don't get? You and I are very much alike in our love for family and thinking we should fight for what is ours or what is good for the country... Yet this one politician has divides us to the point I would rather hate you than accept your politics under him... What does that say about both of us. If y'all had elected a real man, a real president, we would never have had an issue being on opposite sides of the aisle.

You, over the last 4 years, have become a joke.

Your opinion again... and it still means nothing.

Read my edit above. Posted while you were posting.

Why should we talk about kids being killed by gang violence in this thread? This thread is for a discussion about kids returning to school during an active pandemic and that is what we are talking about. Want to talk about gang violence or kids being killed by gangs? Fine, start that thread and we will have that discussion.

Personally I try to stay true to the tread title as much as possible. I know I am not 100% because I like to open up the threads that I am going to read in multiple tabs. The problem with that is that I often forget which thread that I am in - doh!

This is a little scary


https://www.yahoo.com/news/children-developed-rare-brain-damage-192200123.html

Some children have developed rare brain damage from the coronavirus, according to a small study

glandsverk@businessinsider.com (GabLandsverk)
,INSIDER•August 5, 2020


A study of children with severe cases of COVID-19 found that some developed new neurological symptoms like muscle weakness, slowed reflexes and evidence of brain damage after infection.

Two of the patients made a full recovery, but two remained in wheelchairs due to muscle weakness.

Previous research has suggested coronavirus may cause brain damage in adults, even those with mild cases. More research is needed to understand how virus might affect a child's developing brain.

Neurological issues and brain damage may be among the symptoms of children with severe cases of the novel coronavirus, according to a case study published July 1 in JAMA Neurology.

Researchers from Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children in London looked at 27 children with multisystem inflammatory syndrome, a severe and potentially fatal condition that appears to be linked to COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

They found that 4 of the children also showed neurological symptoms. The patients, aged between 8 and 15 years old, experienced headaches, confusion and disorientation, and muscle weakness, according to the report, none of which were present before the coronavirus infection. Testing showed the patients had slowed activity in nerves and muscle fibers.

After receiving medications to treat inflammation, two of the patients made a full recovery and were discharged from the hospital. The other two patients improved somewhat, but continued to show symptoms, including muscle weakness severe enough that they needed a wheelchair.

Previous evidence has found that adults can also experience brain damage and neurological symptoms from COVID-19, including delirium and hallucinations, Business Insider previously reported.

These symptoms can affect patients after they've left the hospital for respiratory symptoms, and may even occur in patients with otherwise mild cases of the virus. Studies suggest patients can also have neurological symptoms from blot clotting related to COVID-19, including strokes.

It's not clear exactly how COVID-19 may affect the brain, particularly in children, so more research is needed. Previous research on viruses suggests that the immune system may play a role as coronavirus may damage the blood-brain barrier and the body's immune response could damage the nervous system.

j/c...

Another foul-mouthed socialist Democrat running for office.

A progressive, democratic voice for Texas’ 10th Congressional District!

Your colorful language is not professional, doctor!

You voted for a guy who literally claimed he liked grabbing women by their vaginas.

You have no room to talk.

Youre a guy who used derogatory slurs to describe women. "Karens"

Youre not much better.

JMO....schools aren't ready to open.


You put children, teachers, and administrators at risk. I guess I would be remiss to not mention kitchen and janitorial staff as well.


Somebody has to cook and serve the meals and clean up and fix the place.


Oh....the bus drivers. Somebody picks many of them up every morning and drops them off near the house in the afternoon.

Gang violence and influence are a huge detriment to our inner city schools.

Btw---I did start a thread about it. The problem is that the very same guys who are falsely blaming Trump for re-opening the schools did their best to hijack the thread from the get-go w/their usual personal attacks.

Jester, I think you are a good guy. However, you seem to turn a blind eye to all the insults and attacks that dominate this forum because those posters share your political beliefs and you instead focus on those who question those beliefs.

That's your right. Then again, it's my right to express my own opinions.

I've tried to bring some rationality to this thread by talking about how I don't think schools should re-open and that a ton of parents do want them open. I have also brought up that parents have options. No one is "forcing" students to return to school. Folks don't want to have the rational discussion, they just want to shout out that Trump doesn't care about our children and is forcing them back to school.

People don't want to hear about gang violence. That is mostly black on black. Black lives only matter when one is killed by some white person.

Truth

That’s trash. Straight up garbage.

Y’all would flip out on that board if I ever claimed white lives only matter when Arabs or illegals take their lives.

Peen, you can expect hostility from me from here on out in my post. No point in being polite.

And by the way, this is a thread about schools as it relates to the virus, and yet we got two posters trying to make it about gang violence?

This is why I ruthlessly mock posters on here. They make it too easy.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to make it anything. I was just commenting on a post. So you do what you need to do.


I'll sleep as I usually do....not all that well, but it is what it is.

Sure you wasn’t. I’m sure you’d understand when I say there’s reason to believe that.

I see a lot of insults coming from all directions. I don't keep score about who is saying what.

As for turning a blind eye, I try to not comment on them because that just perpetuates the responses and further derails the thread.

I think if we all stopped responding the insults it would make this board better. But I understand how hard it can be, especially when the insult is directed at you (you meaning whoever is insulted not you meaning vers).

Do my politics play a role? Maybe, it is part of who I am so I can't see how it could not. But I do try to keep out of the insult arena unless if gets too much and I can't resist.

What I said is that the president "threatened to cut off funding to schools that didn't open".

Trump threatens to 'cut off funding' for schools that don't reopen amid pandemic

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/virus-sp...ory?id=71670167

And obviously you don't understand the definition of being civil. Every word I said was true. You didn't disprove a thing I said. The poorest schools get the most federal help. They need it the most and threatening to cut off their funding is using your power to apply pressure.

The saddest part of it is, you can't actually form a cognitive debate to offset anything I said and all you can resort to is the usual, "You just hate Trump" BS.

Well we both know the social justice warrior tries to high jack multiple threads with it.

So, do you want to have a rational discussion about schools or do we all just have to say "this is all Trump's fault?"

I actually tried but as usual all I got back was "You hate Trump".

From page seven..



So it certainly isn't fair to blame Trump for the virus. It also isn't fair to blame him for all of the deaths that are associated with the virus. What I do feel is fair is to not absolve him of anything.

He worked to undermine the mitigation that his own health experts recommended. He tried to bully schools into opening. He called for a national health emergency while undermining the very people and plan they tried to put in place. Those things did contribute to the situation we find ourselves in now.

How many additional deaths were caused from his actions are up for debate and certainly can not be set to a quantifiable figure.

However, you can not absolve him since a national plan was set by our health experts and he has undermined them at every turn.

I know I am not someone you probably wish to have this debate with, but at least I've tried, for the second time now, to have one that I do not feel is unfair or unrealistic.

j/c

Georgia teens shared photos of maskless students in crowded hallways. Now they’re suspended.

At least two North Paulding High School students who shared images of their jam-packed hallway full of their mostly maskless peers have been suspended, and the principal has warned other students about what could happen if they do the same.

North Paulding High School in Dallas, Ga., about an hour’s drive from Atlanta, was thrust into the national spotlight earlier this week when pictures and videos surfaced of its crowded interior on day one and two of its first week back. The images, which showed a sea of teens clustered close together with no face coverings, raised concerns over how the district is handling reopening schools during a global pandemic.

Facing a fierce online backlash, Paulding County Schools Superintendent Brian Otott told parents and guardian in a letter that the images “didn’t look good.” But he argued that they lacked context about the 2,000-plus student school, where masks are a “personal choice.”

Hannah Watters, 15, wore a mask as she captured the inside of her school. On Wednesday, she ended up with a five-day suspension for violating the district’s student code of conduct, BuzzFeed News reported. The rules bar students from using social media during the day or using recording devices without permission from an administrator.

“Not only did they open, but they have not been safe,” Watters told BuzzFeed News. “Many people are not following CDC guidelines because the county did not make these precautions mandatory.”

The teen, who said she’d never before run afoul of the code of conduct, told the news outlet that she understood she broke the rules. But she also viewed her punishment as overly harsh.

Another anonymous student told BuzzFeed News that he too faced disciplinary action for the same reasons.

On Wednesday, Principal Gabe Carmona warned students about “consequences” if they copied Watters and the other student, according to audio obtained by CBS 46.

“Anything that’s going on social media that’s negative or alike without permission, photography, that’s video or anything, there will be consequences,” he told students over an intercom announcement.

Carmona and Otott didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Watters told BuzzFeed that she and her family intend to fight the suspension. Paulding County’s school code of conduct says the penalty for using social media or recording device can range from in-school suspension to expulsion, based on the degree of the offense.

Watters’s speech probably would have been better protected had she been off school grounds and posted a social media message about what happened based on the district’s policy, said Fred Smith Jr., associate professor of law at Emory University.

“From a rights perspective, the question I would have is whether or not the school has exercised similar discipline for other students who have posted anything during the school day, especially instances of people posting favorable things,” he told The Washington Post on Thursday.

A lack of equal enforcement of the rule could pose a potential First Amendment issue because it could show the school applies rules to preferred speech, he said.

“Schools have a compelling interest in ensuring that there are not substantial disruptions on school grounds,” he said. “As long as that’s what going on, the school’s within its rights.”

Superintendent Otott emailed a letter to parents on Thursday that stated the district will be providing all staff with cloth masks and face shields and attempting to reduce crowding in high school hallways during class changes.

Social distancing and masks are “strongly encouraged,” but the district has not required either and notified parents earlier this month that both would be nearly impossible to enforce on school buses and in classrooms.

Otott said that he and his staff will be “reviewing student discipline matters” that happened this week, likely referring to Watters and the other student.

“This is a new environment for all of us, but I want to reassure our community that we are addressing the issues that have come to light,” he wrote.

The school district is also gaining more unwanted attention after a video shared on Snapchat allegedly showed a student in a virtual classroom using a racial slur, WXIA-TV reported.

One parent told The Washington Post her daughter wanted to return to North Paulding High School because she missed the social aspect. Michelle Salas said her daughter, Chelsea, has been horrified by how the school has handled reopening and how her fellow students have dismissed safety concerns.

Salas said her daughter has been bullied by fellow classmates for being vocal about her disappointment in the school’s response to the virus and to Watters. But, she said, that won’t stop her from speaking out about what she sees wrong in the school – even though consequences are possible.

“It feels like she has her middle finger up but in the right way,” Salas said.

https://www.boston.com/news/education/20...heyre-suspended

Students who want virtual learning are forced into in-person school because of waiting list

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/hea...06-dd21b40d335a

Man I just saw that.

All those teens crowded together.

Think about how many kid around the country live with older parents or grandparents. Think about how many older teachers their are in our education system.

All these kids...and all it takes is one.

Reopening schools is the opposite of being pro-life. They’re literally sentencing people to death.

No, shame on you for your fake agenda.

Any time any parent has to bury their child it's a tragedy. Period. Whether through illness, sickness, car accident, 'gangbangers' - whatever. They are all tragic and sad and I have no idea how parents that suffer the death of a child find the strength to draw another breath or live with themselves through another morning or another night when they lay their head to rest.

Offering thoughts and prayers for one victim of one type of tragedy doesn't mutually exclude caring about or having empathy for any other type of childs death / tragedy .... and you suggesting it does to suit your political agenda is unkind at best.

As for your continually wishing to bring every thread back to black on black crime and 'gangbangers' -- two things:

[1] as others have pointed out, worthy discussion and if you want to start a thread about it, do so. But you can't crow bar it into every other thread and discussion.

[2] With CV-19 and police abuses - there are specific individuals to discuss with specific actions that have caused specific events and results ... these are specific issues and specific topics and specific events that are being talked about. With "gang bangers" and street crime and black and black crime etc -- it's a terrible situation than needs to be discussed, but no one individual is saying something today that has instant ramifications throughout the country to make the situation better or worse. There aren't other countries doing things different on a daily, weekly basis that are instant talking points and comparisons. . . the violence and deaths continue and are tragic, but there isn't a variable that is changing the situation daily, weekly, monthly .... AND from what I can see - the numbers are significantly less than the 150,000 american lives lost in the last 6 months due to CV-19.

So again - shame on you.

Yet, another lie.

No not a lie - though maybe an exaggeration. Something you are extremely adept at yourself when it suits your agenda.

The rest of my post was spot on - SHAME ON YOU.

Putting your reply next to the original comment ... It seems you are equating referring to a woman as a Karen is "not much" different than sexual assault and randomly touching women.

Educate me Professor.

Those are all bad ways to treat women. One does not make the other Ok.

I’ll admit that using a woman’s name to ridicule entitled middle age white people could actually bring more nonsense towards women. My wife and I spent some time talking about it. So I’ll use Karen and Ken respectively for the appropriate gender.

Anyways...I’m glad that kid took those videos. The principal’s claim of “you made the school look bad in a negative light” is nothing but pure gaslighting. I hope more kids take videos!

I believe you live the next school district over from us. We are in a highly democratic area but I would believe both of our schools have more registered R's than D's.

Anyways, our school board had a meeting Wednesday night. They are still struggling to come up with a plan so they moved the start date for the new year back 2 weeks and completely revised the plan. They are now going with a hybrid plan-splitting the groups up into 2 groups to limit occupancy to 50% or less. There also is a remote option. But almost every other option they are looking at to testing before games for athletes, to partitions in schools to dual bus routes -they are having trouble implementing because of money.
they also had a quote to put thermal testing booths at the 3 doors of the schools and are not going to implement because the booths are 10k each and they are already in the hole. The school board put in the last plan that parents would get a sheet of paper sent home and you are supposed to take your kids temperature and if there is a temp, you are supposed to keep them home. They would not check at school doors. After much pushback, they are now looking at maybe having somebody at the door with handheld thermometer and if they have a temp, put them in an isolation room and call for someone to pick them up.

The reason they are on the 5th plan is every plan they have tried to put forth so far either is not doable or simply cost way too much.

They still have many, many items that they simply don't have answers to. They have established a advisory board of parents who are doctors and the county board of health. I am sure the school principals, teachers who helped and the superintendent never thought they would have to be doing something like this.

And every question from the school board to the superintendent was like I am disappointed, if they can go 2 days a week, why not 5. Why did we have to have 2 bus routes, that wastes a lot of gas money. Every question from the posting on facebook were even more asinine and selfish. But one that that i noticed a few people say is that kids can't get this or spread this, so why don't they just go back.

Nice post. Finally, some rational and logical talk. Hope we can discuss the complexities of the situation. It's an important topic w/no easy answers. I'm game for having a logical discussion if you and others are into it. I'll wait until I see the flow of the thread after your post. Will it take an upswing or will it devolve into the usual one-sided rhetoric that plagues almost every thread in this forum?

Crazy ass bigoted women being called "Karen" is a slur! It's also a way to call out their behavior, which I'm sure you condone being white, republican, and southern... Maybe that label hits a little too close to home for you to appreciate what it actually does.

Off to a roaring start. LOL.....

I have never been called that, but we all know that namecalling is basically the only debating skill that you possess. So troll on.

yep, Schools are not prepared to face this safely. All the doom and gloomers saying it will be much worse in the fall/winter must have factored in the utter idiocy of sending kids back to school at this point.

I want kids to get the education and be around other kids for the social benefit too, but not if it's going to cost lives. None of us would kill a kid or follow them home and kill their loved ones... yet we put them in this exact situation to bolster the economy? I just can't see any reason for schools to start "in person classes" right now. None.

As you call me a troll. Shut up. smh

Nah, I'm just going to straight up ask you if you are a 'Karen'? Do you get mad and yell racists crap at people for no reason? Do you feel like you're special and above people of color to the point that you justify calling the police on them for just being somewhere YOU don't think they should be? Not talking about committing actual crimes, I'm talking about 'simply living while being a POC'?

Do you think that behavior is acceptable? Do you think harassing people for speaking a different language or for just being a POC is in any way justified at any time? And yes I will scrutinize your answer, while knowing any deflection or otherwise responding with some sort of attack will tell me all I really need to know.

Do you make up your own definitions for your own purposes? Maybe you should go google what a Karen actually is. I would link it, but profanity.

Oh here is a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(pejorative)

But nice try to attempt at labeling me a derogatory slur.

What exactly is a 'Karen' and where did the meme come from?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53588201

And that is what I expected. Maybe I should start a thread as to not derail this one, but I think this is worthy of discussion. You have a point if you compare it to calling all black kids in a hoodie a 'thug' BUT if you equate it to behavior, that comparison falls flat.

Maybe don’t use Wikipedia next time?

I could make a Wikipedia page saying Georgia is a derogatory slur.

I realize that.

But I truly do get where you’re coming from. Using a woman’s name as a negative connotation for any entitled act contains a lot behind it. Took me a bit to realize that, so I’ll adjust. Wish we could have a nice non-binary term to use.

Just call an entitled person an entitled peson.

My mother's name is Karen. I don't like the term either, but I get that the point being made with it needs to be made. My elderly mother agrees.

Coronavirus live updates: New York green lights fall school reopening; some states roll back bar hours

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/07/coronavirus-live-updates.html

You didn't read what I posted, or you simply cannot comprehend. The funding for schools has already been approved. The president can't over ride that, and neither can devos. Period.

The only body of gov't. that can is congress. Period.

Trump can say whatever, that does not mean he can DO whatever.

To claim that he threatened to with hold funding while having NO ability to do so, and using that as some sort of anti trump move is just dumb.

I didn't form a cognitive debate, primarily because of who I was talking to. I posted facts. And the person I was responding to still doesn't get it. Period.

Trump hatred rules your life.

I went to the definitive source on slang -> Urban dictionary

Karen
The stereotypical name associated with rude, obnoxious and insufferable middle aged white women.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen

They give examples of "Karen behavior" as well but there's a lot of off color language and I wasn't sure I could edit it all out. So feel free to follow the link.

Yeah I live in the next town over and money has always been an issue in our district. People think we are well off but the truth is we get very little state funding. We did receive and spent money that was offered under the Covid act on thermal imagers. I believe Poland bought three of them? I know people were complaining about the cost of them but having them will enable us to get kids in school in a somewhat reasonable timely manner.

We have some of the same asinine comments on our Facebook pages. Some people are just idiots.

The busing issues aren’t as bad here since we have no high school busing. We also have a ton of parents that drop and pickup their kids so the schools asked residents to opt out of busing if they aren’t using it.

As far as having more registered Republicans than Democrats I don’t think that is the case. We do have more Republicans than some other communities.

Remember this?

Yet, you ignored my call to have a rational discussion about whether or not we re-open our schools and instead talked about the urban dictionary definition of "Karen." What does that have to do w/schools?

You also ignored Rocket's comments about Trump and vaginas. And 888's masked profanity for another name of that body part. What do those things have to do w/re-opening schools?

You ignored all the posts that placed the blame for re-opening schools on Trump. Anyone w/any sense knows that he wasn't the reason we re-opened schools.

You say you are not keeping score, but it doesn't take a mathematician to know the score.

I posted the urban dictionary to try to end that argument between people with some levity hoping that the thread got back on track.

As for the other stuff, long week of work and didn't feel like getting involved in a serious discussion about anything tonight.

Take that for what you will .
As for masked profanity and trumps and vaginas, I am not a moderator. I don't feel the need to always try to police the board. I often skim posts and if they are not interesting or frankly if they are too long, I mostly skip them. To be honest I missed any masked profanity - either by skipping over it or not getting it at all.

As for Trump being responsible for re-opening schools, I would never say that he is completely responsible but no way you can say he bears no responsibility. He may not be the direct decision maker but he has been exerting influence over those that do. Republican governors are especially susceptible because Trump can really hurt their political futures. Do you disagree?

No problem, Jester. Just remember it was you who called me out first. I didn't call you out. I simply responded to you.

How about this.............you converse w/888, Pit, Rocket, Swish, OCD, and Perfect and keep my name out of your mouth?

In return, I won't talk to you, either.

Deal?

A Gallup poll from late May and early June found the most favorable perspectives on returning to school buildings. Fifty-six percent of parents said they wanted to return to full-time in-person instruction, while 37% preferred a hybrid approach

How about deal for this thread or this forum?
I enjoy our interaction elsewhere

Last time I checked, it has been you that has called me out on these types of threads rather than the other way around.

Whatever..........we just don't have enough people who actually want to have a rational discussion. It's always about "sides." Freaking dumb.

Thursday, July 23, 2020

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 57% of American Adults who have children of elementary or secondary school age believe schools in their community should reopen in the fall. Thirty-two percent (32%) disagree, while 11% are undecided.

Do you think anything has changed since this poll was conducted.? Do you believe the results would be similar now? I dont believe so.

I have asked for us to talk about this multiple times. Instead, we get talk of vaginas, masked profanity for the same body part, labels for white women, Trump forcing schools to re-open, and outright insults for anyone who doesn't want to follow the lead of the left.

This should be a real discussion. Instead, we are bombarded w/ignorance and bias from the left.

Actually yes, the second poll, Thursday, July 23, 2020 shows a 1 percent increase in wanting schools to reopen.

Parents are making the call on this, as it should be.

The first poll seemed to imply they wanted to go back full time at the begining of the school year.

Second poll says "in the Fall".... big difference,

I want my kids back in school 100% .... no ifs ands or buts. I just want it to be when it is safe, and it isn't safe right now. And seeing the images of the HS in Georgia should make everyone think about what we can expect from the kids re masks and distancing.

Yes but... vaginas are good.

Depending how the poll questions were asked, i might be labelled in the 57%.... which would be misleading.

As the coronavirus lockdown loosens in many states, most parents of school-age children think schools should reopen this fall and say it will be bad for students if they do not.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_...pen_in_the_fall

I'm sorry, but when we are discussing kids returning to school, I think that terms like vaginas and the masked profanity by 888 for the same body part are offensive.

I agree.

Vers youve used the trerm "masked profanity" at least half dozen times now. Clearly you want to get me a ban ... if you didnt already, find the post and report me already.

Its a direct quote from the POTUS before he was President. There is masked profanity in many tweets ppl post. But if there is a next time, I'll be sure to say vagina, thanks to you I'll remember.

That said, I know you'd rather attack others for highlighting Trump issues than addressing the actual issues, but repeating and referring to it anymore is unneccessary.

If I wanted to get you suspended, I would notify the refs. I did not do that.

I am just upset that....................Never mind. Reasoning w/you is impossible. I get that you despise me. I don't care for you, either.

Carry on.

I actually wrote a paper, speaking to the ignorance of American students. Last I heard, we ranked 14th, 19th globally, math and verbal.

The first job of any principal, is the safety of your students. The superintendent, of that Georgia school district needs to lose his/her job.

I was a teacher. So genius, why do YOU think we ranked so low?

so using the board term that's grounds for a ban was coincidence? And mentioning 78 times was an accident?

I kid, I kid ... it was only 71 times.

And no that's not a lie that's either gross exaggeration
or humor.

2 polls from NPR on July 23 that are complete opposite of you poll
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus...-reopen-schools

The agrarian educational calendar is antiquated. We have to push a second language sooner to our students.

At the end of the day, unfortunately, the rest of the world places more emphasis on education. It’s why our teachers are underpaid.

Probably because of the poor quality of our teachers?

Again, I kid. It seemed appropriate.

A serious answer would be that I think it's likely as much a reflection of parents as anything. I know standardized testing and curriculum is a topic that gets mentioned but they do the same thing in many countries and it is equally disliked.... I also think many countries prioritize education from a young age much more than we do. But these are all off the cuff, I'm guessing and dont have verifiable answers.

IS THIS WHAT KUMBAYA LAND LOOKS LIKE? YOU ARE DOING IT IN EVERY DAMN THREAD! TAKE YOUR MEDS.

Rasmussen has NO agenda at all...

Heck I want schools to open, but not for in person classes! Keep the kids and faculty safe.

Because you were a teacher?

Knock off the meds comments. They are uncalled for and offensive.

Yep. Dallas, Ga is a hour south of me...if that.

I am glad I don't have school aged kids because I wouldn't want them to be in that. It would be a hard decision as a parent or guardian. As you said, sometimes parents aren't in the picture and it Gram and Gramps raising the child.

And as noted, teachers and administrators, kitchen staff and janitorial staff, you probably have a average age for them pushing up towards 50, wouldn't you think?

I am just thinking back on my HS staff. It had to average out at least to mid 40's to early 50's.

Using some dim witted comment like this to excuse everything Trump does and says is the typical response from your kind.

Some people don't get that wrapped up in personalities on a message board to get that worked up about it. Then some people do.

j/c

Despite the claims by Trump that children are basically immune, Maury has determined that is a lie...

97,000 children reportedly test positive for coronavirus in two weeks as schools gear up for instruction

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-ki...y2ronF9Wa8XMo6M

Georgia school district will now only offer virtual learning after 90 staff members are forced to quarantine

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/us/barrow-county-georgia-schools-covid-19/index.html?

Unlike what some believe, no, not every place gives the option of virtual learning. Unless of course they're forced to due to the virus they claim is safe enough that they can open schools.

And here's the idiot governor that sent covid patients to nursing homes, and the gov. that says the state of NY needs some $30 billion from the fed. gov't.


https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/08/.../4951596821134/


Which is odd, isn't it? A gov. doing what he thinks is best for the state? A democratic governor making a decision, after all his screw ups? He's opening schools?

Yes he made some terrible mistakes in the beginning. Little was known about the virus at that time and lots of people made terrible mistakes. That's what often happens when you're basing decisions with very little information.

As time goes on and people learn more, we base what they do on the information they have to work with. Do they use the information the health experts gather to make better decisions to mitigate the situation?

New York has done this. They have the lowest rate of infection spread than any other state in the country. They have the levels of the spread down to a point it is much safer to attempt to open schools.

Or didn't you know any of that?

New York Has Lowest Coronavirus Spread Rate In The Nation, Cuomo Says

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebn...e/#668a2085579f

Their hospitalization rates are also very low now.


New York's coronavirus hospitalizations fall to lowest number in four months

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-coronavirus-hospitalizations-fall/

I know you're just out here today looking for a fight. As such I don't expect any kind of reasonable or measured response from you. But maybe someone with a clear head will take a look at the reality here.

People want schools to open. People want businesses to open. But it has to be done in a responsible manner. It has to be done in places where the conditions are right and circumstances dictate it's a reasonable conclusion to make such an attempt.

That's simply not something that can be said in many states in this nation.

It's not like Cuomo is going around even now, with all of the information that has been gathered saying that not wearing masks and not social distancing is a form of peaceful protest. He's not the one saying this virus will just disappear. He's not one who called on the entire nation to open businesses and open schools like the conditions in your area mean nothing.

See, some people learn based on the information they're given. they change the way they do things, their strategy and tactics based on that new information. Some people don't. You take aim at the prior while seemingly giving a free pass to the latter.

I know you thought you were making a point, but you weren't.

j/c

Health directors told to keep quiet as Fla. leaders pressed to reopen classrooms

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

I've made more points in the last few days than you have the last few years. You don't need to understand it, as you obviously don't, but most on here do.

Well of course they do. As was expected, your response speaks volumes since you didn't really respond to the meat of the post at all. Much as I predicted.

You tried to make a point. I gave you a sound response. In return? Typical arch. Nothing of substance.

j/c...

I guess this becomes a case study of what not to do or how to do it. Wonder what the following 3 weeks will look like for cases and spread within the school and outside the school within the immediate families. . . . . I hope the kids that got suspended for sharing the photos (I'm not sure on what grounds they would be suspended) get reinstated and an apology issued. They were right to highlight how badly this school opening was managed.

jc

Wealthy Colorado parents are hiring teac...students behind

6 students and 3 staff at this school tested positive this wee

This won't be uncommon. It's certainly something my wife and I have discussed with a few of our neighbors/friends as a real option. Supplement any online learning with a private teacher or tutor.

j/c

Coronavirus cases lead over 800 to quarantine in Georgia school district where masks not required

Cherokee County School District drew attention last week when students without masks posed for a group photo.

Just one week after schools reopened in a northern Georgia school district, more than 800 of its students and staff have been told to quarantine.

Last week, the Cherokee County School District, about 44 miles north of Atlanta, told 20 people to quarantine when one 2nd-grader tested positive for the virus after the first day of school. That number grew fast, and as of Monday night, the school has ordered 826 students to quarantine due to possible exposure, according to a list the district created.

The 42,000-student district lists about 40 cases in 19 elementary, middle and high schools, but it is unclear if all of those represent positive coronavirus tests or if some are of people who were just exposed to infected students or staff.

The district routinely does contact tracing to determine who may have been exposed to people who test positive for the virus, according to NBC affiliate WXIA in Atlanta.

School officials could not be immediately reached for comment Tuesday morning.

Cherokee County schools recommend but don't require students or staff to wear masks.

After a viral photo last week captured some students without masks standing shoulder to shoulder, Superintendent Brian V. Hightower wrote a letter to parents saying the image failed to show that many students in the district wear face coverings.

"The senior group photos taken outside before school on several of our campuses raised concerns that those students might not be aware of the importance of masks," Hightower wrote. "Upon investigation, we learned many wear masks routinely, but we must continue to remind all students of the importance of masks when you cannot social distance."

Hightower also said in his note to families last week that he isn’t sure how long the district will be able to keep schools open in the face of the pandemic.

“The answer will depend on all of us as a community,” he wrote.

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp said in a press conference Monday that he is happy with school reopenings across the state.

“I think quite honestly this week went real well other than a couple of" viral photos, the governor said.

Hilary Porterfield, a parent of a Cherokee school student, told NBC News last week she has been “frustrated” by how the coronavirus pandemic has been handled. She said the positive cases should serve as a “red flag” for the district.

“it's just a matter of time before it's out of control,” she said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cor...-where-n1236364

More info about that school

Georgia school district reports 826 students in quarantine since opening
From CNN’s Jamiel Lynch and Jennifer Henderson
The Cherokee County School District in Georgia reported Monday that 826 students are in quarantine due to possible exposure to Covid-19.

The school returned to in-person learning on Aug. 3.

According to a chart from the district, 42 staff members are in quarantine.

Thirty-eight students and 12 staff members have been tested positive for the virus, according to the district's website.

The district said it has approximately 42,500 students.

Heard today that the Toledo Public school system is re-opening under a 'red light' scenario. On line only. Bowling Green Ohio is doing that as well, to my understanding.

More schools will follow, no doubt. (just, not colleges or universities at this point. imo)

Yeah what could possibly go wrong there. Open em up.

Who the hell said that? Anyone, ANYONE that has read my posts over even just the last few weeks knows what I'm saying.

But arch makes a good point. See, people pay their property taxes whether school is in session or not. There's not actually a financial gain or loss whether they have butts in their seats or not.

With universities, their bottom line is greatly impacted by such factors. They have a monetary incentive to be open.

It's not about safety. It's about the bottom line. And in some cases political pressure.

Collegefactual says the U. of Toledo has 3500 students that live on campus. I was under the impression it was more like 5500.

But, use the 3500 number. Room and board, $11,000 a year, per student. Almost $39 million. Per 'typical' college year.

Yeah, they're gonna do everything they can to get heads in beds, even if they send the students home after a week, or a month.

Down here in Florida they are just stupid, I know not saying much for Florida, but they gave kids 3 options, full in person, full e-learning, and half and half. There was a deadline of last week to tell them which. At the time the rule was all kids 3-12 will be required to wear masks, k-2 best effort. Fine and dandy, my son decided he wanted to do full in person, which with the mask, I was ok with. Then a few days after deadline, they gave into whiny ass parents who were complaining about the mask requirement and now say they aren't required...well I wanted to change his enrollment to virtual but passed the deadline.. So now you can't change. Its silly how many people have issues wearing a mask. I don't find it fun and I don't know if it really helps or not, but its literally the least you can do and in no way do i feel as liberties are being taken away. Is this going on in ohio?

yep

j/c

US records deadliest COVID-19 day of summer with over 1,500 deaths

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/51...ver-1500-deaths

Maybe someone should get this virus under better control before they push to open schools? Nah...

j/c...

Trump is hoping all the suburban housewives support him like

He must have missed the news that suburban housewives now come in all colors, work and have children they're worried about sending back to school. And that some of them even have a heart. I'm sure those concepts escape him.

OUCH! stole that.

j/c...

Geoff Redick
@GeoffWSYX6
#BREAKING: expect high school sports guidelines next week.

@GovMikeDeWine
: "We're going to have an announcement on Tuesday...about high school sports. We've been working with @OHSAASports
to get it right, to provide guidelines to make it as safe as possible."

Geoff Redick
@GeoffWSYX6
MORE from @GovMikeDeWine
: "A little preview: this is a decision that's going to be made by parents, by schools. We are going to restrict the number of fans.

We want young people to have a season...but want to do it as safely as possible. This will be disruptive for some people."

https://twitter.com/GeoffWSYX6/status/1293986030975168514

It's a no-brainer, folks. Remember, if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem...

Florida governor compares schools reopening to killing bin Laden

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-governor-compares-schools-reopening-142043255.html

at first i had an issue with this...but then i remembered that florida has cowards for cops who let kids get shot up in schools, so maybe some SEAL training would do these kids some good.

j/c...

A dedicated educator's local project, initiated out of anticipation of the upcoming academic year, has grown into a national database that tracks coronavirus-related school closings, quarantines, cases and deaths.

Alisha Morris, who teaches theater in Kansas’ Olathe School District, was scouring the internet for news reports about COVID-19 issues surrounding K-12 school reopenings across the country when she became overwhelmed with information.



https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/ne...d-d/5591124002/

There is a link to a google doc spreadsheet in the link below by state. This is a work in progress and I am sure in another couple of months this will be a rather large document.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e...xDr_8u9KF_LlgI#

What did I tell you would happen? Daughter's first day of classes was today. I would guess in a week, outside chance 3 weeks, U of Toledo will do pretty much the same.

I know we don't agree on much, but I damn sure hope she stays safe and doesn't bring covid home. Good luck.

I'm seeing all my grandkids this week because when they start school they will not be allowed to visit.

We probably don't agree on anything.

And, if the list of symptoms of covid are accurate, aside from a fever (we don't have a thermometer so we never checked that), she and I have had every symptom. Her in December, me in January. Her stuff lasted well over 3 weeks. Mine, over 4 weeks.

Well like I've said before, I don't hate you arch, I just don't like your politics. Other than that, I wish you no ill and hope you and yours can stay safe. With your wife being down, I assume she is still on the mend, and some of the things we are hearing, I just want everyone to come through this intact.

No doubt. Universities rely on the room and board money.

We have a few friends that teach at the K-12 level and they have said one of the reasons school districts, as a whole, want to get kids back in school is more or less to check on the well-being of the kids. Most fully expect to shut back down after a few weeks.

Wife was supposed to be off work 3 months. She went back part time after 2 months. Full time after 2 1/2 months.

She's tough as nails when it comes to working/doing stuff/energy - to the extent that often times I need to tell her her intentions are great, but "Hon, thatching the yard in July, when we've had no rain, is NOT the thing to do."

Her work ethic, be it at home, or at her job, would leave most people gasping. Her twin is the same. Shoot, the CEO of her company (some 2400 employees) knows her.

The H.R. department, when she called them to see if they'd let her go back to work early, said "What? You want to come back early? You were approved for 3 months off. We've never had anyone ask to come back early."

This was the cover of the UNC Chapel Hill Newspaper.. only it wasn't redacted.

Mississippi quarantines more than 2,000 students and 500 teachers as hundreds tested positive for coronavirus, but the governor says, 'It doesn't mean they caught it there'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mississippi-quarantines-more-2-000-224528239.html

And America continues to be a laughing stock around the world.

smfh

I just checked the website. UNC is going to remote learning for all undergraduates, and they want all students who can to get their stuff out of the dorms and cancel housing contracts by the 25th.
The schools positivity rate went from 2.8 to 13.6 percent in a week.
They have 177 in isolation and 349 in quarantine and used up all but 4 quarantine dorm rooms in the first week

Horrible. Who thought this was going to be a good idea? smh

Don't look at me. I am waiting for the same thing to happen in the High Schools that are opening up in Ohio

j/c:

This morning, I was texting w/one of teachers I used to work with and she told me that she had a million questions for how they were going to deal the students return to school. Ste told me that they were told to "teach on the fly" and that this is "triage education."

Another thing that is interesting is that teachers had to apply to opt out of the classroom and teach virtually. They were also told they would lose their position at their particular school if they opted out of the classroom. Then, a ton of kids chose the online option and the district was short of online teachers, so they changed the rules, but still wanted teachers in the classroom to teach children virtually.

It's a cluster....

Notre Dame, Michigan State suspend in-person instruction

“If these steps are not successful, we will have to send students home as we did last spring,” said Notre Dame President John I. Jenkins.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/18...onavirus-398043

We are told the virus is everywhere, and it will never stop until either herd immunity comes about, OR if a vaccine is found/made.


And then this, from the article:


A 2 week 'temporary' is to contain the spread? So, in 2 weeks, it will be fine?







Follow the money folks. The longer colleges keep students on campus, the less they refund.

No it won't be fine. Many of these cases came about due to kids showing up to campus with it. It spread from there. And yes, it's all about the money.

Uh...........that's kind of my point?

That was kind of me agreeing with you.

j/c

Coronavirus cases among students at University of Alabama climbs to more than 1,000

The dean of the College of Community Health Sciences said there is "no evidence of virus transmission due to in-person class instruction."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cor...sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Roll Tide!

The SEC's "dance minstrel, dance" attitude towards student athlete safety during the pandemic is such an atrocity.

Cancel NCAA sports.

Jc
Only copied and pasted the pertinent part of the link. There are multiple topics covered


2 young teachers die from COVID-19 complications

A third-grade teacher at Windsor Elementary School in Columbia, S.C., died on Monday, days after her COVID-19 diagnosis. Music lover Demetria Bannister, 28, was known as “Windsor’s Songbird,” principal Denise Quickel said in a press release sent to Yahoo Life. Bannister last visited campus on Aug. 28 and began teaching remotely on Aug. 31. On Friday, Richland School District Two, of which Windsor Elementary School is a part, learned of her test results and began contact tracing and disinfecting procedures.

Also, according to the Washington Post, a 34-year-old teacher in Missouri named AshLee DeMarinis died from COVID-19 complications on Sunday, after spending three weeks in the hospital. “She taught special education, and it was just her calling,” her sister Jennifer Heissenbuttel told the Post. “Her students loved her, and her colleagues loved her.”

A spokesperson from the American Federation of Teachers tells Yahoo Life that 210 union members have died from COVID-19 during the pandemic.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/school-r...-195843333.html

How long have schools been open? A month or so? Have we seen the explosion in Covid cases and deaths that so many of you said were a given?

Um, yes. Google is your friend.

No, not really.

It was a redundant question. LOL

People were freaking out. Just read the thread.

I dont need to read the thread when I know the answer.

My kids are on an every other day from home schedule.

My 9 year old daughter went from loving school to hating school. She literally cries when she talks about her day because the whole thing feels like some sort of punishment to her. It is awful, whether back full time or not. It's almost like being in prison for them because they cannot be close enough to their friends to even talk to them, even at recess. There are no more meaningful hands on activities like art or gym because it involves handling equipment which would have to be sterilized.

They are honestly a lot happier at home with the remote learning. The only problem with that is it makes life challenging for mom and dad.

The quality of education is taking a huge hit as well. I don't think my kid is actually learning anything. On home days, she knocks out the work in about 2 hours. It is always busy work, doesn't challenge her in the slightest.

At first, I agreed with the APA and CDC recommendations for getting kids back in school, but this new form of school is actually worse than school from home in my opinion. It is not a "healthy" environment to be in for 6 hours a day.

Thanks for posting that. It's informative.

I'm going to contact some of the people I used to teach with. I'll post their takes on here after I speak w/them over the next few days.

Yes. I am wearing a mask everywhere when I go out. I volunteer and work with the homeless. Many seem to feel they are scoring some radical points by not wearing masks. Here in the last few weeks our county escalated its numbers, sick and deaths both.

We now have a number of stores I frequent posting signs requiring masks to enter. Many more are wearing them than are not. I do not enjoy this, but I also am one at risk. We have not been able to suppress it yet, and the "deciders" who promised they can "whack it" could not even commit to finding it to do so. We are traveling more than at first. We do not trust much of what officials tell us. Media seems bent on accommodating any mask or vaccine controversy. We question what is to be gained by this reporting. Schools are not yet safe IMO.

Let me alone. I am being safer. And some of my prayers are for my mother in a nursing home and others like her who are vulnerable in a horrible way.