Although I like this coaching and GM staff, there are things that a glaringly wrong, 1) Apparently, we cannot evaluate WR talent. With all the picks we have made at that position, Britt has not lived up to his paycheck. Then, when are some of these younger players going to emerge. 2) The Browns have not found an answer to the right side of the o-line. From our Center to Right tackle, we still have some problems. And we cannot run LEFT EVERY PLAY. Some of that, Kizer has to check out of. 3) Does Hue not believe in a swing pass to a RB or some scheme that puts Duke one on one with a LB.
But there were some bright spots which give me hope.
I think the biggest issue is having talent on he roster and a stable system to have them learn in. The Browns seem to be stockpiling talent finally. Now instead of using drafts to start over and find that one star player to build around, they can use drafts to plug in holes and weak spots because there will already be talent there. That's how culture change happens. The rest is just details that will follow.
Trust me I grew up a Steeler fan in the 80's. I watched the offense led by QB's like Mark Malone, Bubby Brister and Todd Blackledge stumble and bumble around year after year. There were a couple very good players on the team at that time but the rest of the roster was lacking badly. If the Browns keep drafting well and don't scrap coaches/systems every 2 years, it will happen.
Pitt, I can agree with stockpiling picks and young talent but the part of that problem is that its YOUNG TALENT. You have to sprinkle in some vets that can lead and teach that talent.
Also, the last two drafts, alot of players were brought in but I see us purging alot of picks. And Britt just wants to get paid, he is not a good replacement WR. But I will hold judgement until after this season.
Pitt, I can agree with stockpiling picks and young talent but the part of that problem is that its YOUNG TALENT. You have to sprinkle in some vets that can lead and teach that talent.
Also, the last two drafts, alot of players were brought in but I see us purging alot of picks. And Britt just wants to get paid, he is not a good replacement WR. But I will hold judgement until after this season.
Agreed. You have to retain talent once you develop it. You also have to make smart free agent acquisitions. That's one thing that Pittsburgh usually excels at. They target free agents who fit their system that may not necessarily be the top priced guys on the market. They are usually the mid ranged guys....and most of the time they work out. Yes, you can laugh at Justin Gilbert last year lol. That was a bad call.
Case in point a guy like Tyson Alualu. The guy was what most would consider to be a first round bust for the Jags but has turned himself into a good role player. Pittsburgh signed him to be a rotational back up and sure enough they lose a starting defensive lineman on the 2nd play of the game Sunday, likely for most or all of the season. Alualu stepped in and did a heckuva job for 4 quarters. He was not a highly sought after free agent but he fits. Derrious Heyward Bey is another. He was one of the worst 1st Round busts in years with the Raiders. But the guy just loves football. Pittsburgh signed him for peanuts and he has been their best Special Teams coverage player for like 5 years. They also target guys in the draft that fit the system and have the work ethic, even though they might not be the flashiest prospects.
Pitt, Gilbert is a miss that BOTH teams fell victim of. You look at his "numbers" and people got enamored!! But if they would have spoken to him and checked his"heart", they would have found that the dog can't hunt!!
And in the NFL, teams make that mistake alot, especially at the QB position. Brock is one who fits that description. Great numbers, but when the bullets are flying, not good. Then teams they can fix that.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
The hit by Shazier wasn't dirty in your mind?!? Come on!
I agree the other hits long ago would be considered good, hard hits but not in today's NFL. Players need to adjust to that - as long as it's called consistently I don't have a problem with it.
As far as the "dirty" hits in question go, the only one I thought was egregious was the one by Watt and he didn't even hit a Browns player, he hit his own guy in the back. I read a quote today where Watt called it a completely stupid play on his part. Said he saw Kizer on the ground , got excited and "blacked out" whatever that means. The high hits by Gay and Wilcox are forbidden in today's NFL but they are still football plays to me....I guess I am too old school. Especially the Wilcox hit because a guy is catching the ball on the goal line to possibly take the lead in the game. I think instinct takes over and guys don't really think about lining up a hit in the "strike zone" Goodell approved area in that situation, they hit the first thing they get to.
At the same time he can't argue it, the rules are clearly defined. But I don't see it as a dirty play or an intent to hurt somebody....even though he hurt himself. I saw it as a desperation play to try and break up the pass and save the game for his team. It's the exact kind of hit that all our high school coaches would have been overjoyed with. But alas, the game has changed drastically.....and I get that with the head injuries. I still have a hard time watching this new era of play sometimes.
There's a big difference to me between those types of hits and a guy who is an ankle twister and nut puncher like Burfict. He has no room to talk about anybody....on any team.
The hit by Shazier wasn't dirty in your mind?!? Come on!
I agree the other hits long ago would be considered good, hard hits but not in today's NFL. Players need to adjust to that - as long as it's called consistently I don't have a problem with it.
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future.
i wasnt happy with how many shots Kizer took, especially when they're unnecessary. Yeah, he's a big guy and tough/athletic ... but don't be dumb
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future
Even if you feel it was a "late slide" he led with his helmet. Dirty play period. As I said, the other ones, I would agree they were good, hard hits but the NFL is very conscientious of head injuries now, and rightfully so if they want the game to be relevant in the future. Ben's twisting ankle grab was also dirty as hell but it didn't get called. Don't mess with a players legs like that period.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I forgot about that one actually. No I wouldn't necessarily call it dirty....I'd probably call it borderline. Of course in slow motion is looks worse that it actually was because it looks like the hit came later than it did.....but man that was one heck of a late slide. I'm sure Shazier had already launched himself for the hit by the time Kizer started to go down. It was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future
Even if you feel it was a "late slide" he led with his helmet. Dirty play period. As I said, the other ones, I would agree they were good, hard hits but the NFL is very conscientious of head injuries now, and rightfully so if they want the game to be relevant in the future. Ben's twisting ankle grab was also dirty as hell but it didn't get called. Don't mess with a players legs like that period.
Don't forget Watt diving helmet first into Kizer's tricep on his throwing arm after he was already down. Looked like he was aiming for his shoulder. Fortunately he missed. Must be a mind numbing shock for pit to see those POS "plays" finally get called as penalties. The whole world knows it's BS. The league is finally catching up, but pit has yet to get the memo. Watt's a rookie, so it's definitely learned behavior. Face it, they teach dirty play. With the new rule of two personal fouls and you're out, their only concession is to spread the penalties out amongst the players.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Pretty sure Shazier was the first one. He hit him in the head. Watt took his shot too. (#90?) Got him in the arm. Shazier's hit would've been excusable had he not led with the crown of his helmet, it was so bang-bang, but Watt speared with intent.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
The four calls I'm thinking of (Although I swear there was a 5th):
- Shazier hits Kizer on the ground as he's sliding. I could "maybe" see it as a situation where he went into a tackle and couldn't stop himself IF ONLY he had made any sort of attempt to try to pull out of the tackle. Instead, he lead with his helmet and followed through with his hit. Can't see this as anything other than dirty.
- Kizer gets sacked and Watt dives onto the pile to deliver one last hit. Kizer was already on the ground when Watt goes into his lunge, and again, he goes helmet first. I don't see how anyone can see that as a clean football play.
- Gay crushes Ricardo Lewis on the sideline. Okay, here, we're at least getting into the whole "Five years ago, this wasn't a penalty" thing. But there's still three things wrong with how this hit went down, and I have no idea how it wasn't immediately called. 1) He blew up the receiver in the middle of his catching motion, which is against the rules as of this year. They want you to make a play on the ball or use your arms and hands to knock him off his route, rather than your well padded body in an attempt to remove his head. 2) He went helmet-to-helmet, which was against the rules even last year, and 3) He led with his helmet, which is supposed to be spearing (and against the rules forever, just never called). I didn't think this was really that dirty per say, but something that the player should know not to do by now.
- Coleman gets hit on the goal-line. Again, this is similar to the play above, but probably not as bad as trying to take off a guys head who's just standing there. Still, he lead with his head and blew up a receiver mid-catch. Things like this make me think the Steelers are actively coaching their players to do this, despite the league telling players not to. I'm honestly surprised more Steelers players haven't broken their necks hitting the way they do.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
n the bright side, if Kizer pans out, we have 5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds ..... so we could add a couple of highly rated WR and CB in rounds 1 and 2. Think of how much better this team could be with that kind of talent infusion.
I am excited about the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds... so we could add a couple of highly rated WR and CB in rounds 1 and 2.
One of the nice things about all this is that (assuming Kizer pans out) we're reaching a point where we'll be able to draft more BPA and less "need". (I imagine we'll also be looking for a top tier LT to begin grooming.)
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Man, I was hoping we'd get past the game management issue.
I don't think it was a game management issue as much as it was that the NFL still has not clearly defined when a catch is a catch and when it's not. Hue saw the same exact replay the ref ended up seeing.. it's not that you see something different, it's that the rule is vague as to when the play is over on a play like that. You used to have to catch it, come down with it, get up with it, walk to sidelines with it, sit down with it, take a shower with it.. then it was a catch. Evidently there is now a point at which you are rolling around on the ground but the catch is over.. where that point is doesn't seem all that clear.
It was a mismanagement. Why call a TO, then throw the challenge? Just throw the flag. That way you only use 1 TO at worst. This way, we used 2.
In hindsight you are right but in the moment, on the field, nobody knew there was anything to challenge and you HAVE TO stop the clock.
Sure, the way it played out we can call it mismanagement, we had 2 challenges, we were less than a minute from the 2:00 minute warning anyway when challenges get called by officials..
Sure, looking back there was nothing to lose but it's not instinctive to just throw the flag for no reason in hopes that there is something to challenge when all you are really thinking about it a timeout. In fact, since the challenge rule was implemented, I don't think I've ever seen a coach just throw a random flag out in the final few minutes because, "What the hell, I need a timeout anyway."
I'm wondering if a re-examination of the rule might be in order. If you have already called a time out, and after that fact, you realize a challenge is in order, throwing the flag doesn't cost you a 2nd time out.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
Here is the full article from which that cut n paste on twitter was from ... it's interesting. If I had not known I would have said it was written by a Browns homer - a little too much praise!
Kizer's mental ability to adjust to the NFL and NFL defenses will determine his ceiling. We can all see that he throws the ball beautifully and seemingly effortlessly.... that's not to say he was always accurate and doesn't need to learn some touch, and he also needs to continue to work on his feet/body - but to me he looks like he has a pretty fast release and his mechanics come 'naturally'. It is interesting to see someone analyze the play calling and what Kizer was actually asked to do.
While initially I was hopeful that Kizer sat for 1/2 a season - I think if he can play as well as he did against Pit, he's going to be learning and developing faster than by sitting. . . I just hope he stays healthy.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm wondering if a re-examination of the rule might be in order. If you have already called a time out, and after that fact, you realize a challenge is in order, throwing the flag doesn't cost you a 2nd time out.
The only issue with that would be it might be subject to abuse ... if you are trying to buy extra time you can call the TO ... wait for that to nearly expire and then challenge. You get additional time while the review is taking place.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Here is the full article from which that cut n paste on twitter was from ... it's interesting. If I had not known I would have said it was written by a Browns homer - a little too much praise!
It was written by former NFL cornerback Dominique Foxworth.
[quoteIt was so late that the slide and the hit happened almost simultaneously. Kizer has to get down earlier to avoid getting hit like that in the future][/quote]
Come on Pitt, "late slide"? Did that make Shazier lower his head?
I love that you post here, and always appreciate your point of view, but that statement was nonsense.
"Shazier said he thought it was a late slide, whats your thoughts on that coach?"
"Shazier is wrong" Mike Tomlin
HACK
I am not a fan of Tomlin, but that line got a chuckle out of me.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I've never said this out loud before but Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches. I just like his style.
Me too. There was a game awhile back, not much time left around 2 minutes. The Steelers hadn't stopped the opposing offense all game.
The Steelers scored a TD to take a 2 point lead. But they went for the on-side kick instead of kicking it deep. The announcers were befuddled. But that speaks to advance knowledge a game situation/game theory. He realized that time was the enemy and he need to get the ball back to score again.
Kicking the ball deep would allow the team time to drive down the field and attempt a FG without leaving the Steelers any time left.
The onside allowed the D a chance to either stop them or not but regardless the short field ensured that whatever happened would happen quickly enough to get the ball back to answer.
They kicked the on-side the other team recovered it, drove the short field kicked a FG. Steelers got the ball back drove the field and scored to FTW.
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