--Whether Hue or Kizer called that idiot play at the end of the first half, that's on Hue. Kizer should not have been allowed to change the play.

--Worst collection of receivers I've ever witnessed watching football. Other than Treggs and Higgins, no one can actually catch, including our first round TE. Draft a TE in the first round who can't catch? Browns are gonna Browns.

--Myles Garrett is the only first round pick since Joe Thomas that actually impacts a game. Then he gives up the penalty that leads to the nail in the coffin. Browns are gonna Browns.

--That interception was 100% on Louis. Didn't even try. What a loser. The sooner guys like Britt and Louis are off the team, the better. Why does Louis continue to get playing time when he can't catch?

--Wasn't sure if the Browns would cover today considering the bye week, but they didn't disappoint.

--The more I think about it, the more I hope they keep everyone. Make them own this debacle and make them dig themselves out. The fans will come back if the Browns start winning.

What are the final 7 opponents, What games do the Browns have a realistic chance of avoiding 0-16 with!

We lost. It sucked. BUT they looked so much better this week. This was Kizer's best game. We had a lot of good drives and got to the redzone a lot. That never happens. So the improvement made it a lot more fun to watch.

Jacksonville
at Cincinnati
at San Diego
Baltimore
Green Bay
at Chicago
at Pittsburgh


Next week ... maybe at Cincy .. maybe at Chicago

Kizer played his best today IMO

Our defensive secondary is atrocious

Stafford gets the ball out too quickly to defend

Devalve with an awful day

Ogbah looked good

Sucks about Collins

Our Wrs are straight trash

Njoku looks so bad at times ... legitimately awful

Run game worked, we still lost

0-9

1-24 under Hue. The guy has to feel like a fool when trotting out before games and after to talk to the coaches on the other team.

Over the last 5-10 years.

TJ Ward. TaSahun Gipson, Mike Adams, Joe Haden, Buster Skrine. and Jordan Poyer.

Browns didn't keep "any" of them.

And most of the times the Browns didn't even,

Oh well, I'm sure some of them are out of football.

The Secondary is atrocious!

The game was tied at 24 to start the 4th quarter.

Browns lost by 14.

Kessler is worse than I remember. Kizer is not near ready yet. Hue still needs an OC, but will probably need to watch the tape. Hue sees the double secret probation improvement that is wasted on fans. Our secondary is atrocious. Some plays should be removed for the rest of the year. They haven't worked well and he can't leave them alone.

I thought Kiser played better. He is showing toughness and improvement. I'm not ready to give up on him but the WRs and TEs leave a lot to be desired. I thought Hue stayed with the run more today but i would like to see more. The defense played well at times then broke down and were gashed at times. This team continues to be their own worst enemy. Hue has them playing hard for the most part but at some point they have to grow up.

I thought Kiser played better. He is showing toughness and improvement. I'm not ready to give up on him but the WRs and TEs leave a lot to be desired. I thought Hue stayed with the run more today but i would like to see more. The defense played well at times then broke down and were gashed at times. This team continues to be their own worst enemy. Hue has them playing hard for the most part but at some point they have to grow up.

Oh and shoutout to the running backs, as they did well today also.

This game made me feel like we could have something if we can get past our mistakes.

Is this double talk? Seems very similar. LOLetc.

Browns rushed for 209 yards and lost by 14?

What do they have to do to win, rush for 400 yards?

I used to think Kessler could be a long term backup.

After today, I can see why he was inactive the first 6 weeks.
Ricardo Louis, a few weeks ago was neck and neck with Britt in production.

And I thought Britt was having a bad year.

I mean, it's one thing if they didn't go out and get Treggs, (which gets' playing time that I don't know why)

but not only Treggs

But Treggs, and Kassen, and Higgans had a 90 yard day when they signed him for 1 week.

Corey Coleman is going to come back at some point, and so maybe Gordon, (if ever).

T.Pryor would be nice to have back, (hoping to win)

Maybe healthy scratch Ricardo Louis for a couple weeks, that's just what "I" would do.

JC...Being a U fan, I never really cared for Njoku (yeah he has a lot of upside) But I think he's more of a Ben Troupe...project with great workout numbers...But hoping he turns out well for us, as we can use some talent that actually translates and emerges.

I think Hue shoulders a large amount of culpability for what we witness on a week to week basis. There are 2-3 head scratching calls every game. He's constantly helping the other team win.

But the trash this team trots out there at WR is appalling. And no, Terrelle Pryor's presence would not make this unit less trash. He's also trash. We literally have no one who can catch the ball. It's insane. Never seen anything like it.

Maybe that's on Hue for not "coaching them up", but we all knew before the season that it was probably the worst football unit in the entire league.

The play at the end with Louis should result in him being cut. Seriously, that kind of effort just can't be tolerated on an 0-9 team.

+1 good post!

The Browns have all the pieces in place!~


They started out 10-0 that's 10 unanswered points.


They scored 14 unanswered points coming out of halftime to go up 24-17.

They have all the pieces in place.

like him, hate him, think he sucks, think he's got a future ... Hue Jackson has to be just miserable

Same old Browns that I remember watching. Endless flags. Fumbles. Stupid offensive play calling including a QB sneak on 3rd and 3. Just stupid.

Collins with a knee injury is hurt, nice INT though. Pressure from MG on that.

But again, the flags and penalties are outright horrible.

Kizer looked to play his best game though.

Very strong start.

Nice run game with Crow and Duke.

j/c:

--Kizer looked much better. I think the bye week did him good. He was more accurate, threw it a bit quicker, made some good runs. Yeah, he made mistakes, but he looked better and it's too early to give up on him.

--What happened to S. Coleman. #77 was playing RT for a good part of the game. He's huge, but slow.

--Classy move by Hue to say he made the goal line call when he didn't.

--Njoku and Devalve are the worst blockers. Sheesh. And Njoku keeps dropping balls.

--Speaking of dropped passes, how many drops does Louis have now? Goodness.

--Britt played pretty good today.

--Crow and Duke both played very well. Our RBs are not the problem.

--I thought the OL had a nice game. Zeitler had a good game. So did the center. I can never remember his name.

--It's hard for me to even look at Kessler. He stinks so bad. So blah!

--Is Peppers ever going to make a play?

--It's a mistake to put our safeties in coverage. LOL....Kindred was easily torched by Ebron.

--Our front four guys had some good moments. Myles and Ogbah got some outside pressure.

--Kirksey really struggles to get off blocks.

--I didn't think McCourty was very good last year, but he is playing well in Cleveland.

--Our punter has a good leg.

--We may have played our best game and we still lost by 14.

I honestly give two craps about how Hue Jackson is feeling. I feel bad for the fans and some of the players. If Hue doesn't like the way it feels, then he should do something about. He's in a position to do something about it so a start would be to cut out the 2-3 plays a game that help the other team win.

Coleman left with a concussion.

I missed the game.. Just watched the highlights, and downloading the full game now...

From the highlights, it looks like Kizer had a decent showing. Then it looked like the secondary didnt have enough speed to keep up with the Lions offense. Too many long plays given up.

What the heck was that call before the end of half though? QB sneak from like the 2/3 yard line?

- Another week. Another loss.

- The Browns are the only team in NFL history to start back-to-back seasons 0-9

- The QB sneak from the 3 yard line to end the half was a classic.

- The Browns moved the ball up and dow the field. Only 50% in red zone scoring, however.

- As quickly as the Browns could get a lead, they'd give it right back.

- Ogbah had a nice game.

- Kessler missed a wide open Treggs by 15 yards. Kessler stinks.

- The running game was a bright spot.

- In the end, it was another double digit loss.

7 more of these things to go.

Great start by the D on the first two Detroit drives.

Good start to the Browns - 10 up.

Bad calls by Hue - I didn't agree with going for it on 4th down. Insanity on the last call of the 1st half ... although no doubt there will be a bunch of speculation on how and who called that.

God awful officiating.

Detroit are a good team. Stafford is a really really good QB. Coming off a by - the Browns played very well, once again they couldn't get out of their own way and made it much harder on themselves .... but there are some really good signs. Running game was working today and the play calling for the most part was excellent. For the first time this year since week 1 against the Steelers I honestly think we're going to win a couple of games this year.

Devalve already said that Kizer changed the play call on the last play of the half.

What a disappointment. They actually played 3 good quarters and Kizer looked good.

....and then the 4th quarter happened.

Any news on Jamie Collins?

MCL injury ... severity not announced

I agree. When we went up 24-17, I thought we were going to win - we had a ton of momentum...

If we remain healthy until JG or Coleman return then we could possibly win multiple games. But only if Kizer doesn't get injured.

Ugh.

Burgess played decent but, he is no Collins and he also got hurt.

The Oilers and the early Buccaneers are the other two teams that started 0-9 in consecutive seasons. Not good company to be in, but we're not the only ones.

Kizer actually gave me hope for his future today. Peyton Manning led the league in INTs his rookie year, and still holds the record. Don't take this to mean I'm comparing Manning to Kizer, because I'm not. I'm just stating they both sucked in their rookie year, and I'm trying to be hopeful.

Good job by Crowell and Johnson today. Keep it up.

Good job by the DL. Keep it up.

It would appear we need some edge speed, as the lions were too successful running outside. It appears we're still in need of some heatseeking LBs.

Boddy-Calhoun makes some impressive hits, but he needs to wrap up when his little tiny body doesn't bring down a RB, TE, or WR that has 100lbs on him. I know I'm exaggerating his weight, or lack thereof.

Will Peppers have a decent punt return this year?

Hopefully Coleman and Gordon can show the youngins how to catch the ball. Hopefully Gordon will show Coleman, if he makes it to week 13.

Question for anyone: I stopped into the game day chat -briefly - and saw a few posts blasting the refs. How bad was the officiating?

It was typical. Missed some calls, blew others, called things in their imagination. Not much more crappy than other weeks, but nothing blaring in my opinion.

It appeared they were wearing blue tinted glasses as all the holding they could see was from the orange spectrum.

Kizer played his best game. He made several great throws.

The running game was great.

Our blitzes never get home. We often call blitzes and the offense seems like they know exactly what is coming (not just this game).

There is more, but I don't care to expand at this point.

Just got back from the game. Some thoughts.....

Browns need a new head coach plain and simple. That debacle at the end of the first half is a fireable offense. You call a QB sneak with no time outs left, really, I mean really. If the Browns had a halfway decent head coach they win this game.

Seth DeValve should never see the field again. Browns are driving and there's a catch by DeValve for a first down....wait a minute, the ball is stripped and it's a scoop and score for Detroit. There is no excuse for
that!

Browns can't play with a lead, up 10-0 and here come the drive killing penalties, next thing you know it's tied 10-10. Up 24-17 and here come the stupid mistakes, next thing you know Browns are trailing by two touchdowns. This team lacks discipline big time. Once again that's a reflection of the coaching.

Too bad Kizer got hurt and left the game for a while. Kessler over threw a wide open receiver down the sideline that would have been six. By the time Kizer came back it was to late.

Browns outplayed the Lions most of the game but stupidity, bad coaching, a turnover, and drive killing penalties, cost them this game. Sorry for the book, I have a lot to get off my chest.

One call I didn't understand was when Duke dove for the first down and extended the ball out in front of him and they had to measure it to make sure he got it. Detroit challenged the 1st down call and replays showed that the refs spotted the ball almost a yard short of where it should have been and the Ref when he announced that the replay stood acknowledged that Johnson's knees weren't down and that he got the full extension with the ball yet they never moved the ball up.

Kizer's best game IMO ... and our running game's best performance

Devalve's fumble and the abomination at the end of the half sealed our fate

Bitonio said that Kizer audibled to the QB sneak.

Devalve also said that I believe. And said that Kizer has the ok to change a call.

But, if you look at the link I put up in a different thread, you can see Hue's reaction......and I seriously think he was ticked about the change Kizer made.

I would like to know what Kizer saw that made him think he could score on that play.

That's bull. The way they lined up it look like it was meant to be a QB sneak all along. He is just covering for Jackson!

It was ballsy to change the play. I'm ok with that because I rather have a ballsy QB than a weak minded one. He will just need to learn to make better choices.

Did they huddle before that play? When did he audible to the sneak?

Look at Hue's reaction, and tell me you think he called that play. Keep in mind what Bitonio and Devalve have said.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/12/1664...-kizer-halftime

Devalve apparently said the same thing (Kizer changed the play).

Why didn't they kick a field goal before the half? They were getting the ball back after the half, and were moving it successfully. To me that was on Hue. Kizer changing the play to a sneak was horrible. They should have sent in the kick game and took the three.

I hate DeValve. He is horrible at about everything. He does get that catch every now and then, like the one to the goal. But only if he is wide open.

Kessler is absolutely horrible. The receiver was ten yards past the defense.

Njoku is dropping way too many balls. Louis also.

The defense played decent, but not as good as many are saying. They were not on the field too much, so that argument is out the door. Tackling was bad today, too many plays where the guy is hit behind or at the LOS, only to get 5 plus more yards.

The referees were bad today. Not the reason we lost, but did help in the effort.

I think this team is close to winning. Just sucks to see the same crap ruin their chances every week.

Having seen the tape they weren't even in a goal line short yardage formation. Plus the ball was on the two yard line. Did Jackson talk to Kizer after that?

I think the reaction is from the Lions holding his players down so they couldn't reset to spike the ball and the refs not calling anything.
That's why the Browns players were so up set and got a penalty.

I can't believe that wasn't called. I was yelling at my TV like an idiot when I saw that.

There were 11 seconds left after the play ended. The Lions were holding the Browns down so they couldn't line up to spike the ball and kill the clock. I think that is what he was reacting to.

I looked at the tape and it looked like he didn't make any single or call at the line to change the play. Of course I wasn't down there so maybe he did.

That's definitely a possibility.

At least they got to the 4th qtr before the wheels fell off.
Usually they are axle-draggin' by early-mid 3rd qtr.

That was one of the things DTers mentioned... Maybe that was what duke was upset about.

Without a doubt ..... ridiculous delay of game.

Folks,
No ref in his right mind is going to call a delay of game penalty with 12 seconds to go in a half!! That was a bad play to run. And it was on Kizer! Kizer hurried them up to the line and tried to run that sneak. PERIOD!!.. Duke was pissed because his QB should have been more aware of time!

If u were in the chat to see that u must have left .... based in Dukes and Hues reaction i went and watched it 3 or 4 times ... I told the guys in chat it was on Kizer ..

If anyone has it recorded ... go watch ... u can confirm ....

DeValve started tight on the right side of the line ... he leaked out to the left .. he clearly was running a route .... he was 4 or 5 yards in the end zone running parrallel to the goal line ... he must not have heard the audible as he was still running his route ... *L* ...

If anyone has to recorded go check it out ... it was CLEAR to me ... very clear ...

Sorry Citizen ... i know your really upset right now .. but theres no covering for Hue here .. .Hue is covering for Kizer ... DeValve was clearly running a route ...

That all happened down at the other end zone from where I was sitting but that looked like it should have been delay of game called on the Lions.

Someth8ng else no ones mentioning ... a few plays earlier Higgins made a catch ... he was running to the sidelines to get out of bounds .. instead a few steps from the sidelines he decides to turn it up field for 2 yards .... MORONIC ... he needs to be smarter than that ....

What Kizer did was inexcusable ... so is what Higgins did ... STUPID .... STUPID ... STUPID ...

Kizer tries to do to much ... not sure how much football sense he has ... he can’t audible to a run in that situation ... he has to be smarter than that ..

What you are saying about Devalve is also evident on the link I posted.

Diam,

That has been his problem ALL SEASON. Earlier, he would not take the check down receiver, would throw the ball into improbably spots. Remember, Hue had to tell him to throw the ball away to live another day!

Kizer is learning the hard way! But that play at the half is one that Kizer has to keep in his head that he only had 12 seconds.

Cincy, Baltimore and Green Bay.

I alway's have thought we'd beat Green Bay, even with Rogers. It's in Cleveland.

I see no way they beat the Bears on the road, or Pittsburgh the last game of the year.
So if they can't win before the last two, cue the fat lady.

Yep - both of them. Dumb, stupid, moronic, selfish ... hard to believe they are paid to athletes when they are so bone headed.

I see us beating Jacksonville next week.

When did Coleman leave the game? Almost looks like he got KO'ed on the failed sneak.

Why in the world are you letting a 21 year old rook call audibles in the red zone for #1 ??

I really enjoyed the play calling by Hue. It was a lot more creative this week, but the offense still wasn't on the same page. Having to spend 2 timeouts in the first half, because we couldn't get the play off in time is a joke. How have the Browns not invested $10 mil into a solid VR device for the players? Just have a simple program where the players could all meet up together in real time and run through the plays and where they're going to get lined up. For a team that wants to prove to everyone, mainly themselves, that they're smart, they sure are dumb.

Kizer played very well today. The final nail in the coffin was when he left. The team wasn't the same with CK. Kizer limited his overthrows and didn't force the ball into tight coverage as much, but can someone tell me how he actually improved? He's still making his reads on the outside of the hash marks, continues to look up field while under pressure and is not afraid to throw it long. I won't say that he is a franchise QB, but he bounces back every week like no QB we've had before. Still such a moronic thing to do to audible into that sneak. It was a dumb formation to be in on the three if you wanted to run a QB sneak. He should have ran it in instead of throwing it to Njoku.

TE play was horrible. Njoku and DeValve show real promise, but they really do suck at what they need to do. They can't block, can hardly catch. They're both just very athletic in their own ways.

Because you’re 32 year old left tackle is on IR?

Not on the same page. some guys were run blocking and some were pass blocking. Coleman just falls down like he's trying to cut block. you're right about DeValve, he is clearly running a pattern and doesn't block anyone.

If Kizer did change the play wouldn't the snap count be longer? the clock wasn't running so what was the hurry? Time must have been running out on the play clock I guess.

There is a difference between being ballsy and being stupid. If kizer did change the play then that was stupid, stupid, stupid!

It was certainly a learning experience.

FWIW: https://sports.yahoo.com/deshone-kizer-audibled-sneak-end-222717165.html

Yeah, and if it had worked, you'd be worshiping him. I give him credit for trying to make something happen. He just needs to learn some things.

Ok then it's still on Hue. Why do you give your rookie QB the freedom to change the play in that spot? IT'S JUST STUPID! AND STILL A FIREABLE OFFENSE!!!!!

oh if, if, if,. If I picked the right numbers in the lottery then I could afford to buy the Browns and put an end to this nightmare!

Let me try this a different way. Do you want a QB who is just a puppet for the OC, or do you want a smart QB who can see things and make changes?

Personally I want the smart QB. Kizer wants to grow into that role and he is trying his best. He failed on this attempt, but he will learn from it. And do better next time.

I’ll go with the smart QB ... in what world was that smart? ...

I didn't say it was smart. I said he is trying to grow into that role.

I'd rather chew on a cyanide pill than watch a QB try to sneak it from the three yard line in an I formation.

Detroit was in a goal line defense. What could he have possibly seen to think he could bully his way into the end zone from the two yard line? Especially when we are not lined up in a goal line formation.

You all are so ridiculous. Let's all just have a witch hunt and burn him at the stake.

Instead of seeing the bigger picture.

There's the old quote: "A man has to know his limitations". Kizer just learned one of them.

I think it's awesome that Hue lets him change the play. Find out if he's good enough to start this year so they know if they need to pick a QB in the draft.

It's going to be a long time before he is smart at changing a play. No 21 year old is gonna make better decisions than an OC. BUT yes it's awesome that he gets the chance to learn about that and try to do it. He is a bright kid, he will get the hang of it.

This season is a throw away season, so I don't care much if he screws it up.

Post game thought. I liked hearing of the 3 tight end formations to one side, in the first half.

Maybe next year they will have 4 legit Tight ends on the roster, since they seem to be using all 3 in a first string role at least situaionaly.

TJ Ward with the Buccaneers

TaSahun Gipson with the Jaguars

Mike Adams with the Panthers

Joe Haden with the Steelers

Buster Skrine with the Jets

Jordan Poyer with the Bills

All still in football and all if playing together would be a formidable secondary.

j/c:

I am going to try and be real restrained about this, but I am so tired of all the hate directed towards Hue. People freak out if a person questions any move the FO makes, but Hue is taking needless attacks constantly.

Now, we have posters getting on him because he allows his qb to audible? LMAO........And if he didn't allow him to audible out of a bad play, they would freak about that.

And did someone say we should have kicked a FG w/15 seconds left in the half? Seriously?

That is my restrained, politically correct version.

Gipson recovered a clutch fumble that helped the Jags tie the game in the 4th. He actually ran the ball into the endzone, but was ruled down when he recovered the fumble. That dude was just always making plays near the ball.

Well Miss Eve ... all i can is if he didn’t know not to do that ... he has a LONG LONG LONG WAY to go and a TON TON TON TO LEARN ...

If he was going to do that ... he should have audibiled to the QB sneak on the play before when we had them all spread out ....

Since its all about learning and growing into the role ... how long u think its going to take before he learns throwing picks is a bad thing ... lord only knows hes had plenty of opportunities to learn that lesson ...

It was a dumb audible by Kizer, but Hue allowing him to audible is not dumb.

We haven't won a game this year. We won l last year.

This is a year to develop players.

He didn't have an issue with throwing picks today did he? HMMMMMMM

Give the rook a break.

Wasn't last year a throw away season? The Browns are not going anywhere so yea the rest of this season is a learning experience for Kizer.

Here's some cause for concern. At ND he was criticized for making bad decisions like we saw today. Hopefully he will learn from this.

I was mistaken. It's good to have some company.

They're all throw away seasons.

This team is full of young players and it's going to literally take years before they become skilled at their craft. Like years. We got hosed when they cut everybody and didn't resign good players. It's like starting from square one expansion team.

I read this from a fan (Plain Dealer) and agree 100%:
june471
This game was an example of how Hue should have played Kizer all year. Run the ball 35-45 times no matter what. Provide him with safer throws and allow him to pass downfield with the benefit of play action, then allow the defense to keep them in the game. This way Kizer should have only been throwing about 15-20 passes per game, which would have allowed him to see defenses and ready him for a larger workload in the second half of the season and into next season.

LAR did this with Goff last year and Goff was awful in the 7 games he started, but this year he is improved. Chicago is doing that with Trubiski this year. Their is no reason why, as we saw today, with Kizer in a controlled offensive environment this year that he can't thrive and improve significantly in his second season.

If Kizer flashes during these last 7 games, including 5 with Josh Gordon, Coleman and Britt, then the need to draft a QB in round one diminishes significantly too. With the GENIUS trade that Sashi pulled with Houston that appears will net another top 5 pick this year for the Browns, they could really narrow their focus to RB1(Bryce Love or Derrius Guice), CB1 (Minkah from Alabama) and then use the three 2nd rounders to move back into the 1st round or use them to draft a WR, FS and a developmental replacement for LT.

Kizer can be a competent to highly effective NFL starter and that in today's game is equal to a franchise QB because there are no Bradys, Brees' or Rodgers in the draft this year or in the NFL right now to get in FA either.

98 out 100 john madden footbal video game players would have executed better than the Browns at the end of the half. We give our coaching staff millions of dollars, and they can't execute a plan 98 out of 100 humans that play John madden football can do.


Millions of dollars, any one of us could have coached that last drive. What do they do in Berea for 16 hours a day, ping pong? Side note, why are the Cleveland Browns above an offensive coordinator?

You could make the case we purposely trying to lose

And a situation can be explained dozens of times, but if a poster doesn't take the time to read it........it never happened and the coaches get the blame.

I don't hate Hue I just think he's not a good coach. He's the coach of a team that so far has just 1 win in 2 yrs. I would say the attacks, as you called them, are justified.

The obvious choice was to pass the ball with 15 seconds left on the two yd line. The fact is he audibled into a dumb play.

Uhmmmm............I think the play call was going to be a pass to Devalve. It wasn't all that hard to see.

Btw----did you see the pass to Ebron? LOL

He did with about a minute something left in the game in the end zone but it didn't really matter.

Yep. He has hands of stone all year except against us. I all so saw our freaking TEs drop passes.

And you know darn well that was not on Kizer. The receiver stopped his route and gave up. Kizer threw the fade where it was supposed to go.

That happened right in front of me. Detroit's DB pushed off but of course nothing was called.

So? What I said is correct.

Right.

Eve, Kizer played well today. I am encouraged.

His audible was dumb and he should have thrown a back-shoulder pass on the pick. The db had over the top coverage.

Great game to watch for three quarters. Great beginnng, hung in there, even overcame the strip on DeValve and the INT. Kizer played a great game. Too bad he got hurt, putting Kessler in killed the Mo. Detroit is a good, fast team and we hung with them with a far inferior roster. Run game looked good because we stuck with it and got some rhythm going. Receivers over all had a decent game. Britt finally showed up. Garret screwed us. Ogbah looked good. Njokju has to catch those 50/50 balls. Three plays cost us this game, every one of those mistakes can be overcome. This game was a glimpse into what might be. Everyone needs to hold their water and we need a good off season. I can see winning a game or two before the season ends. Fun game to watch. For three quarters. We have to learn to finish.

Nice post, Cal!

Yea I guess. It looked like he gave up but the DB pushed off him to get separation. It really didn't matter at that point.

I noticed all the same things. This is what happens on young, inexperienced teams. I'm not saying that to excuse them... I'm just saying that they are the kinds of things that experienced teams either don't do at all, or can overcome if they do.

Every single one of these brain-dead moments is a potential kiss of death for Browns. With only 2/3 of an actual NFL team, everything needs to go just right for Browns to have an even chance.

The only thing we can do is wait it out, while they learn from their mistakes. At this point, I just want to see them grow- and by that I mean, don't make the same mistakes again.

You said, "Kizer tries to do too much."

Yup. Agree. 100%

Rookie enthusiasm. I think he'll learn how to dial it back. Every report I heard about him claims that he's smart and wants to learn.

One thing I don't want him to change: running for positive yards when the called play breaks down. That's a kind of moxie we haven't had much of in Browns players. If he's smart about his runs and doesn't take stupid risks at the ends of plays, those legs of his can be a useful weapon. Heck, just the risk of him taking off might be enough to force oppo D's to put a spy on him, freeing up some of our play book. He's a very good runner, and can turn bad situations into net positives. That's nice to have in our back pocket, you know?

I've seen a lot of doom & gloom around here, and for good reason. 0-Everything is never fun. BUT... over half the team is Rooks and Sophs. And the team is still under construction, about 2/3 built. I'm not upset this year, because my expectations were pretty reasonable to begin with. I expected 3-13, 4-12 (with luck). We just entered the 2nd half of the season and there's time to get there.

I just want to see evidence that they're learning and growing.
Baby steps.

Ok here is what I liked.

We ran the ball well, Crowell had some nice runs. Kizer played well and had his best game in spite of what happened at the end of the first half. I like how the Browns never gave up and fought to the end.

The Browns out played the Lions most of the game and if it weren't for a some plays, might have won.

I get it.
Can't believe how fast that rabbit hole opened.

Folks are always salty after a loss.
You're fine on this one.

j/c

Were it week one or two, this could be considered a moral victory. But obviously it is beyond midseason. It's easy to say, "too little, too late,"

I saw enough positives that I think I'll actually be a tad bit surprised if we don't win a game or two. Kizer was better and we ran the ball well. Our receivers and secondary are still pathetic.

I'd still give Hue another shot. Much more concerned about him blowing our last timeout in the 2nd than the debacle at the goal line.

He did a great job, didn't he?
I really enjoyed reading the game from Cal's seat. In many ways, he saw the same game I did.

Run game was finally used like Hue had said it would be. Nice to see Crowell and Johnson play well today.

Britt actually had a good day. Forgot how big he was. If he could get his head straight and keep it there, Gordon at the 1, Britt at the 2, and Coleman in the slot that might look pretty good.

Thought the OL played well today, didnt hear Drango’s name, thats a good thing right?

For the most part our TE’s sucked, I really thought Njoku’s ball he caught in the endzone and was ruled OB, was a TD. He dragged the tip of his 2nd foot in the field of play, IMO. Pretty ridiculous it wasnt looked.

Kizer played very well today, a great sign of improvement. If he can continue this trend, he may just make it. It should be noted that Detroit has an awesome secondary, its the best part of their team.

Our running game lives! Nice to see more iso runs with Crow, those are where he thrives. Duke is our best running back.

Cannot wait for Coleman. The hope of Gordan still gives me the tingles. Devalve and Njoku had an unacceptable game today.

I like Drango. He has obvious physical flaws, but he is very smart and knows how to play football. Our G-C-G play has been excellent recently. Bruce Banner can go back to the lab, because he cannot play football.

Ogbah and Garrett is going to be a deadly combo for years. The defensive line misses Ogunjobi quite a bit. Coley was great but a pretty average game for the rest.

We have the worst blitz schemes in the NFL. And Gregg loves to blitz. This team could thrive in a zone scheme where we rely on 4 guys to rush the passer. Because the Browns can get there.

Hate to see Collins go down.

We really need a true FS and a #1 Corner. We have two box safeties playing at the same time and a bunch of solid but unspectacular Corner play. With no one able to cover for mistakes, elitle QBs shred the team.

The wins are close, I feel. With some pretty poor QBs coming up on the schedule, the Browns may put some stuff together.

Kizer showed much better today. He made me think that with continued progress we may not need a QB in the 2018 draft, wouldn't that be awesome.

Okay... my turn.

Kizer had his best game of the year and for the first time looked like an NFL QB. He game and stats would be better if his receivers would learn to catch a ball or two.

Our RBs and Offensive line had a solid day today. Both get a lot of credit for the run game and pass protection.

Kenny Britt actually showed up today. He was active and engaged. That is what is needed from him every game.

The other WRs were rough, very rough... (Higgins 50/50)

Either Coleman and/or Gordon will be an immediate improvement.

Our TE's are young... but they will be really good in the near future. DeValve had a bad play. Secure the ball.

The Defense played a good game. We need to improve our secondary and LB depth.

A true FS would be magic for this team. Peppers is a SS and is still learning the position. A lockdown corner would also be a big help.

Our second rotation on the D-Line need to keep contain better on the edges. We stuck our nose inside too much and got burned.

This was the game I was waiting for to get a true evaluation of this team. Our younger players are maturing and we can see where we need to target for next year's draft and FA's. If Kizer continues to play better for the remaining of the season, then we can switch personnel priorities. I would love to grab a top FS at the top 15 of the draft.

How many games would Kizer needs like today's game to convince people we don't need to draft a QB? I don't think he has enough time.

Dave Birkett‏
@davebirkett
11h11 hours ago
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Replying to @davebirkett
*25

Here's the full quote: "The Browns probably got better athletes than...25 out of the 32 teams in the league, probably. They got a lot of 1st-round draft picks. They got talent, they just haven’t won a bunch of games."

Man, those first two defensive series were a thing of beauty.

It's obvious and we know it. We wanted Jefferson. Hue wanted Hooker. We'll fix that during the off season.

We need some Corner help. We wanted Bouye. We need Houston and we need to get a CB in FA or in the Top 33 picks.

We need a LB.

Those will improve this Defense even more.

KIZER. This is what I've been looking for all year. Right from the first play down the sidelines to Coates. He was fluid, decisive, had great pocket awareness. Chose perfect times to run.

WE NEED WEAPONS and we know it.

I'm STOKED to see what this Offense looks like with Gordon and Coleman together.

This game was GREAT to watch. Kizer had us moving up and down the field all game long.

PEEN. YOU'RE NUTS.

410 yards of Offense could easily have been over 500. And that's WITH all the drops and the penalty that killed the long gainer.

We're in OUTSTANDING shape moving forward with Picks and Cap Space.

We're ALOT closer than one might think.

For me personally, I need to see a string of consecutive performances like this to pass on a QB. I would like to see a 4 game stretch of play like this, I think.

The morning after the initial frustration is gone.

Kizer played his best game. At least I saw something that looked like a NFL QB. He has to work on that fade pass and maybe he doesn't need to change plays at the line this early

The O line blocked well, and the backs ran well.

No doubt our receivers suck. Did Coates play at all after his scripted first play?

I guess I missed Louis' lack of hustle I have seen some post about. At some point in these crappy games I sort of watch and sort of talk to other people.

I'll be up for the Jags next week. Maybe we can pull one out.

agreed, let's hope Kizer plays like this for a consistent period

We'll see. Kizer better show a lot going forward. We have 7 more games. I am not going to pin wins on how he does, but he needs to look the part.

It is to the point with this QB situation that we will have 2 high 1st round picks in the next draft and I would be tempted to use both 1st rounders to select a QB.

No doubt we need to get better at other positions, but QB is front and center. One way or another we need to find a QB

I guess the ideal would be to go all in for Cousins. If we could get him, we could find 2 weapns in the first round.

I hope he's ok from that rib shot. I had a cracked rib, and it didn't hurt really bad until the next day. Bruised or cracked ribs take forever to heal, and they hurt enough to make you wince and try to avoid certain movements. I can't see it not affecting his play. Hopefully his vest prevented this from happening and he just got the wind knocked out of him.

j/c:

I saw a comment about the defense playing well and I really haven't read many complaints about them. But, the D gave up 31 points [won't count the Devalve fumble], were gashed in the running game, and most importantly--got destroyed when we desperately needed stops, such as right after we tied the game at 24.

I wonder if it is time to move Peppers to another spot on the field? I wonder if there is a guy we can pick up to play FS on the waiver wire? Those moves won't fix all that ails this defense, but he is awful back there.

the defense was not good IMO ... gashed in the run and the pass when it counted.

It's the morning after and I'm still angry. I still think that was the play called and Kizer didn't change it. Even if he did, the fact is Jackson has to go. You don't let your rookie QB change the play in that situation.

I know It's not all Jackson's fault. The Browns are a complete mess. They have the worst front office, and possibly owner, in the NFL and the record reflects that. But you just can't keep a coach who is now 1-24 over two years. I have seen enough of Jackson.

The Browns really should have won yesterday but are now the only winless team in the league. The only teams they might beat to avoid going 0-16 are Green Bay and Chicago.

I agree with most of what has been written on here.

I feel that we played a good game against a good team. The Lions D was playing hard. I cringed quite a bit as they flew to the ball and hit our players with vigor.

I feel that the Browns showed the progress that was expected coming out of the bye week. It is a testament to the coaching staff and the players that they continue to show up and play with heart.

I just hope we can have one game where there are not 2-3 inexcusable mistakes.

Lets hope Britt can sustain the same level of play for the remainder of the season. Let us also hope that the running game can be near as productive as it was during this game.

Overall, I think we are seeing progress and improved play across the board. I am extremely pleased with how Spencer Drango has stepped up and has shown that we have aqcuired some depth over the last couple of years.

I think Hue Jackson needs to hold himself accountable as well. I think he is doing an admirable job with a very young team. But not only do the players need to play near perfect, Hue also needs to call a near perfect game for the team to win. Please do not take this as bashing our HC, but I agree that he has 2-3 head scratching moments a game that contribute to the losses.

I said it a couple weeks ago and I stand by my prediction of us finishing the season with 2-3 wins. Hopefully the winning starts this week against Jacksonville.

The decision to run a QB sneak from the 4 yard line with no timeouts.....wtf are we even doing, wow

Hue did not call that play. Goodness.

And what picture would that be? To let your rookie QB audible into plays that won't work? That wasn't a preseason game yesterday. That was a game the Browns needed to and should have won. With a better coach maybe they would have!

j/c:



TOP 5 GRADES:
QB DeShone Kizer, 87.9 overall grade

RG Kevin Zeitler, 87.0 overall grade

DI Trevon Coley, 86.6 overall grade

RT Shon Coleman, 82.9 overall grade

Edge Nate Orchard, 80.4 overall grade

PERFORMANCES OF NOTE:
QB DESHONE KIZER, 87.9 OVERALL GRADE
This was the kind of performance that Browns fans have been hoping to see from Kizer since the beginning of this season, even if the individual and team results still weren’t quite there. Knocked out of the game for two series by Quandre Diggs, Kizer came back with a strong fourth quarter drive which included three fourth down conversions. Kizer wasn’t helped by his receivers at times with four dropped passes but he put the ball on the money especially down the left sideline to give his receivers a chance to make plays down the field. Especially when adding in his work on the ground to exploit space in the Lions’ coverage this was comfortably Kizer’s best pro performance to date.

RB ISAIAH CROWELL, 77.4 OVERALL GRADE
The Browns worked their way into this game on the ground with the three headed monster of Crowell, Duke Johnson and DeShone Kizer racking up a 200-yard game on the ground. Crowell led the way with 90 yards, 59 of them after first contact, three missed tackles forced and a touchdown run outrunning the Lions’ contain inside the 10-yard line. This marked the the second-straight week for Crowell topping 5.0 yards per carry, 3.0 yards per carry after contact, multiple missed tackles forced and a touchdown. Browns fans will hope Crowell and the running game are rounding back to 2016 form.

DI TREVON COLEY, 86.6 OVERALL GRADE
Coley was disruptive in the middle of the defense and took advantage of tackle turned gaurd Corey Robinson. He forced the Lions running backs off their marks a number of times and totaled two solo stops and two tackles against the run. Coley’s best work was against the pass, where he pressured the passer on two occasions, and had two batted passes at the line of scrimmage.

EDGE MYLES GARRETT, 66.7 OVERALL GRADE
Garrett had a number of positive plays throughout the game, impacting the Lions quick-strike passing attack with three QB hurries and forcing Stafford off the spot. His play against the run was not as effective, as the Lions found success on outside zone running plays around the edge. Garrett had a big mistake that took the game for a turn, jumping offsides on a 3rd-and-11 in the fourth quarter with the Browns down by seven, with the ensuing play going for the game-sealing touchdown to Golden Tate.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-detroit-lions-38-cleveland-browns-24

j/c

Hue needs to eliminate stupid audible options at the goal line. We've now had TWO stupid audible plays inside the 5 that cost us points.

I still think he did and the players are covering for him. Even if I'm wrong and he didn't. The point is you don't let your rookie QB change the play in that situation.

You can defend Hue all you want, the fact is he is a bad coach and needs to go.

Yes, but at times he looks really really good. This tells me he has the talent and is just a young player. I think hes what, 20-21 years old. Give him time.

You can stomp your feet all you want, but I don't believe the players are "covering" for Hue. LMAO....

Also, you absolutely do want to give your qb the ability to audible. We are not making the playoffs. We have a young team that needs to learn on the fly. You don't shelter them or limit them.

Those of you complaining about audibles would be the first people calling for Hue's head if a team left a WR uncovered, but Kizer was not allowed to audible out of run play.

Thanks, Vers! Thanks, Clem!

I think you're missing the point. I agree Hue should give Kizer the ability to call audibles. However, for that one play he should have told him no matter what don't audible to a run.

Now maybe Hue just didn't expect him to be that stupid and he thought it went without saying. Even so, that would be on Hue. But let's say he did say it and Kizer blew him off. Well now you've got an entirely different problem. I believe the latter did not occur and Hue just didn't believe that Kizer would do something that stupid. But that's on Hue to make sure his rookie QB is aware of the situation.

Yep, I'm the one missing the point. LOL

Not saying the QB should never audible. That was not the situation to do it in. We should all be concerned about Kizer's judgment and decision making. What could he have possibly seen to think he could bully his way into the end zone from the two yard line?

He wasn't going against a soft college defense. It was a bad decision which is why you don't let your rookie QB audible in that situation.

I agree.

I only had the radio (raked leaves the entire game) and they said Hue laid in to Louis big time after the int.

The one thing I didn't get from the radio was Garrett failing to set the edge and sucking against the run, which I keep reading about on various sites. Anybody have comments on that?

After the pass, I was like "wth was kizer throwing". Then they should the replay, and you can see as soon as the CB touches RL, he just slows up and gives up on the play. IDK what happened. Maybe he saw the ball go up and thought he was throwing it away????? But it def was on RL

j/c

I thought they played their best game on offense all season. Kizer played his best game. It's amazing how well an offense can be with decent quarterbacking. I'm still not sold on him. He isn't very accurate. I saw our receivers make plays on the ball, but he still doesn't put the ball in the best location, case in point on that final INT. His decision making speed seemed much faster the past two weeks.

Our defense over the middle was poor and the Lions exploited that. Stafford is a great quarterback. They gutted us for some long runs, I'm guessing the first time this year we've given up 2 runs of 20+ yards? And the Lions don't even run. Perhaps our defensive game plan was flawed?

I saw #22 running all over the field but not making many plays. Taylor also whiffed a few times. It's like when the one side of the ball plays well, the other side doesn't. Still want to see a complete game on both sides of the ball. Haven't seen that yet. And like all year we don't give up yards, but we give up points.

I thought we'd do well with Garrett and Ogbah rushing the QB, but I didn't see much of Garrett except running after a player. Run D liability?

The Lions defense isn't that great, but they Slay me... (See what I did there?)

We ran more yesterday than in the past games it seems, but I think we needed to run more. I still like Crow. I wouldn't have Kizer throwing more than 30 times ever in a game and even then... The talent on this team isn't as bad as some make it out to be, but our QB play has been awful. Yesterday was better. We play like yesterday every game and we wouldn't be 0-9.

End of the half foul up. That was bad and obviously cost us points. We are the only team who would do that. They did a good job going up 24-17 and making me forget about that play... How long does a player have to lay on the ground before the officials declare injury? I think it's well known what the Lions were doing, the officials knew and kudos to the lions for knowing the situation... Our guys? I see Britt chirping to a DB without any sense of urgency. Our whole team seemed to be unaware of the situation. A QB sneak and a resnap shouldn't take 15 seconds. That's on Kizer.

But like I said, I'm happy they showed the resiliency to come out and score a TD in the 3rd quarter like nothing ever happened. Is that our 1st TD coming out after half?

I've been a big proponent of Kessler playing all year. His play today isn't indicative of what I thought he could have been, but if that's his game now, then we need Hogan to return as the back-up. Maybe he's worked so hard to improve strength, his accuracy has suffered?

I still don't buy that our WR are as bad as some say. They are getting open, but the QB isn't throwing to them. With our WR and a Tom Brady-type QB we wouldn't be talking about our WR. I think some here severely underrate the QB position.

Our next opponent? Jacksonville. They had Gus Bradley at HC for the past 3 years and didn't win more than 4 games. This year, new HC and they're 6-3. What else is different? Is Fournette making that big of a difference? Because Bortles still looks like crap.

I think we have a chance to beat any of the next 7 opponents. We won't beat them all, but they are all beatable. If we continue to play like yesterday sans poor defensive play, we will win some games.

Hue used the middle of the field ( a coupe of times ) I almost fainted ..lol He has so little faith in his QB that he is afraid to let him throw over the middle or a seam route ( like the one to Chuck ) ..

I have no idea what anyone see's in Kiser ?? Nice running game ( when committed to ) .. For what purpose did we draft Peppers ( in the first round ) for ?? Nujoku was one heck of a reach ( first round ) or not being used properly !

Desperate need of a couple of Cb's ..

The Kizer int was not his fault. That play was pre-set to throw to a spot. It was on the receiver to get there.

Not quite sure why Williams rotates Ogbah/Garrett and Nassib/Orchard.

Two plays turned the game. DeValve and the QB sneak. In order to win the Browns can not overcome plays like that.

Jamar Taylor is a guy I would cut. The Browns can't because he can cover a little bit. He avoids contact whenever he can. Can not tackle. Gives up big plays in almost every game.

One play I really liked that should be used often on the five yard line. Is the quarterback sweep. Kizer can run. The play causes a mismatch on defense and makes use of Kizer's strength as a runner. The formation overload and variations of that could make that play very difficult to stop near the goal.

Kizer for the first time this year looked comfortable. He wasn't rushing things. He had good form and threw the ball well.

The game showed that with some good receivers we can score points. The point is we have bad receivers.

The defense had some good moments but when it counted they broke down. The secondary has to be better. Kirksey missed on coverage a number of times.

This game showed some promise. Eliminate a few mistakes and we could win a few games.

Saved me from making a similar comment.

There are times where the D looks really good, and this is happening more often than it did last year.

But it seems that the more we need a stop, we don't get it. We still get gashed for big plays. We still are poor at tackling. Very poor.

We score 14 unanswered at the start of of the 3rd to go from 7 down to 7 up. And then they go 75 yards in 4 plays. Boom.

And DeValve ... you were pulling/twisting away from the DB. You beat him. He reaches back and swats at the ball with one hand as you are pulling away from him, and the ball came out. You obviously were not gripping it tight.

Yet, they did overcome those plays. Despite those two plays the Browns held a 24-17 lead.

What was the final score?

The DeValve play was a 14 point turn around.

the Devalve fumble and the circus end to the first half were back breakers ... we left at least 17 pts on teh board

Those plays happened in the first half.

The Browns were leading 24-17 in the 3rd quarter.

buck, you do not even know what the coaches called on the last play of the first half. neither you nor I know. but I can almost guarantee that hue did not call a qb sneak. I can almost guarantee that he called a pass play and he told deshone that if the receiver was not wide open and in the end zone to throw it into the stands. we could have easily run two pass plays and the kicked a fg if both fell incomplete. our rookie qb screwed up as rookie qb’s are known to do.

It's clear he needs a season or two to unlock the large quantity of talent and just overall freakness he has. I mean, damn he's huge and etc.

So what?

It all adds up to what was the final score.

What is your point?

Those two plays were key in the game. They affected the score??

What is there to dispute?

well, gee whiz citizen, how many players who were on the field need to tell you deshone audibled did you to believe it. when deshone tells you will you believe it then. the problem was not the coach.
the problem was not that he lets our qb audible it is the audible our rookie qb called. my guess is deshone learned from that huge mistake.

This is the NFL in 2017 - you are going to gashed on plays, especially when you have Matt Stafford at the QB position. The Lions have a very good offense.

I don't know what folks are talking about. Every time I looked at Garrett on a run play, he was forcing a runner to bounce back inside or he was chasing the runner down from behind on the opposite side (as in he blew in from his side and caught the RB going the other way at the LOS).

Did anyone notice Shon Coleman during the game? It might have just been my eye, but it looked like he was using Joe Thomas's stance and first step during the game. Did anyone else see this or was I imagining things?

He and Banner both are trying to emulate that kick step. I didn't see Drango trying it.

he has been coaching since his injury yes? sounds like he is teaching well

Yeah...Drango has played well and Banner wasn't bad coming in cold with likely limited reps during the week.

Yes that is the problem. Is Hue a coach or just a spectator? He has to take control at that point. You don't let your rookie QB, with little NFL experience, audible in that situation. Especially when we are not in a goal line formation. Also, it's too bad we wasted our TOs and didn't have one left for a situation like that.

Has Deshone said anything about what happened on that play?

My opinion is he was gun shy and afraid to throw the ball for fear of a pick.

Tha'ts why Hue calls so few pass plays over the middle ! I almost collapsed when they threw a seam route to DeValve ..

Maybe instead of letting Kizer audible they should send in a play, and also send in a Plan B play, depending on the Defensive alignment.

Ya think ! lol

#coaching

Maybe if we had an OC that always works directly with DK things would be easier for him and he may learn faster.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/KyleKellyCLE/status/930455198077657088

BBC has been solid this year ... quite a find for us (yes, he did have an awful play last game)