DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Live Updates: 51 unaccounted for after deadly high-rise collapse in Florida

This was the first thing I thought of. There are many areas around Norfolk/Chesapeake Bay, parts of Florida, New Orleans, New York/New Jersey, etc that have been having trouble with sea salt water and sunny day flooding for quite some time. And it is only getting worse.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/weat...pse/7779816002/

Could the increasing assault of king tides and sea level rise have contributed to Miami condo collapse?
Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post







Saltwater and brine-soaked air settle into the pores of coastal construction, growing a rusty crust around the steel skeletons that reinforce oceanfront structures. It weakens the bonds between metal and concrete creating cracks and crumbles in vulnerable areas.

Some building experts wondered if that kind of environmental assault supercharged by climate change could have played a role in the catastrophic collapse at the 40-year-old Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside, Fla.

“Sea level rise does cause potential corrosion and if that was happening, it’s possible it could not handle the weight of the building,” said Zhong-Ren Peng, professor and Director of University of Florida’s International Center for Adaptation Planning and Design. “I think this could be a wakeup call for coastal developments.”

Sea level rise, the gurgle of more frequent king tide flooding, and changes in soil consistency or location are elements dealt with by any building on a barrier island.


Collapsed Miami condo had been sinkinginto Earth as early as the 1990s, researchers say

Latest updates on the condo collapse: At least 4 people dead, 159 unaccounted for

Building collapse:'Third World' building collapse front page news in Latin America

And below the surface — beneath parking garages — the twice-daily pressure of the tides on groundwater could keep a building’s foundation wet and on an uneven footing.


The invisible machinations that can weaken a building’s integrity
The Champlain Towers South Condo has a plump renourished beach and dune to assuage a direct ocean charge and is four blocks from Biscayne Bay.

Still, Albert Slap, president of Boca Raton-based RiskFootprint, said it can be invisible machinations — the push and pull of tides on limestone bedrock — combined with rising seas that can weaken a building’s integrity.


RiskFootprint provides assessments for private homeowners and business developments that includes looking at threats from sea level rise, king tides — so-called “sunny day” flooding — and storm surge.

“Even if when the building was built in 1981 the foundation was dry most of the time, with sea level rise pushing groundwater up to the surface, the foundation could be wet enough long enough to soften the concrete,” Slap said. “Many of these buildings with underground parking have sump pumps running and that means the foundation is in the water.”


Building official of Surfside:Condo was on roof 14 hours before structure collapsed

Related:Engineer who probed FIU bridge collapse to investigate Surfside condo

A 2019 analysis by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration found that high tide flooding the previous year broke records at more than a dozen locations, including Miami and Cedar Key on the Gulf Coast.

At the same time global sea-level rise is about 1 inch every eight years.


Sea-level rise in South Florida
Between 2000 and 2017 alone, sea-level rise at the Key West tide gauge measured about 3.9 inches, according to the Southeast Regional Climate Change Compact's 2019 sea-level rise report.

South Florida's coastal waters could jump 10 to 17 inches by 2040 and 21 to 54 inches by 2070 above the 2000 mean sea level in Key West. The long-term sea-level rise is predicted to be 40 to 136 inches by 2120, the report says. The compact stresses that South Florida's sea-level rise could be faster than the global rate because of a slowing of the Gulf Stream current.

Heartbreaking imagescapture the Surfside building collapse and rescue efforts

“Climate change can play a role,” said Atorod Azizinamini, chair of Florida International University’s College of Engineering. “It can cause settlement of the ground with sea level rise, and corrosion.”

Buildings can be designed to withstand anything anywhere. You can have a high rise building in the middle of the ocean, Azizinamini said. But in the 1980s, the subtle creep of rising seas was likely less of a concern.

Cousins Andrea and Nellie Gonzalez wait for news at a family reunification center, after a wing of a 12-story beachfront condo building collapsed, Thursday, June 24, 2021, in the Surfside area of Miami. They are vacationing from Wisconsin and had to be evacuated from a nearby building. (AP Photo/Lynne Sladky)
A Florida International University study on the building found that it had been sinking since the 1990s at a rate of about 2 millimeters a year. FIU Department of Earth and Environment Professor Shimon Wdowinski was lead author on a report published in Science Direct on subsidence — land sinking — in Miami Beach and Norfolk, VA.

The report notes the Champlain only as a "12-story building."


“The main message now is we don’t want to rush to conclusions,” said Azizinamini. “Let the investigation happen and we can learn from our mistakes.”

Investigation into collapse could take months
Eugenio Santiago, a structural engineer and former chief building official at the Village of Key Biscayne, isn’t convinced rising seas or wet concrete had anything to do with Thursday’s collapse.

He said the way the building “pancaked” makes him think it was the failure of a column holding up a slab of floor. When it fails, one slab punches through to the next in a chain reaction until it reaches the ground.

If the building was undergoing roof work, as Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said on NBC’s Today show, it’s possible heavy materials could have been placed improperly, causing the failure.


“It would be very rare to have a building with that much corrosion and no one saw it,” Santiago said about a link to saltwater and sea level rise. “To have that kind of corrosive damage, someone would have said something or seen something.”

At 40 years old, the building was undergoing a required recertification.

Madasamy Arockiasamy, director of the Center for Infrastructure and Constructed Facilities at Florida Atlantic University, said the settling noted by FIU could be one reason for the collapse. He doesn’t believe climate change had a direct impact, instead agreeing with Santiago that it could have been caused by heavy equipment on the roof.

Roofs are designed to hold a very specific amount of weight. He noted air conditioning units on Champlain's roof and said it would generally be built to withstand some light roof construction.


“The video shows the middle portion of the roof collapses followed by the sides,” Arockiasamy said. “More bending means you stress the concrete beyond its tensile capacity.”

There are older buildings on the same barrier island with Surfside that have not suffered the kind of structural breakdown that happened at Champlain Towers, but Slap said buildings deal with geologic and environmental situations differently.

Azizinamini agreed.

"You can have two buildings next to each other, one made a mistake in design and the other didn't," he said. "It's natural for people to try to identify right away what happened, but that's not the scientific approach."

Azizinamini said the investigation could take months with everything from corrosion to nearby construction analyzed for its potential role in the devastation.

What I can say is that salt water is very corrosive to the steel rebar that reinforces the structure within the concrete. Concrete absorbs water which allows the salt water to saturate the concrete and as a result, get to the steel rebar. That is never good. Sea levels are rising and they are already trying to come up with a plan to battle against it in Miami. The long term prognosis isn't good.

I've seen a report that residents claim the underground parking garage was always wet. Puddles on days when it didn't even rain. Now whether that was fresh water or salt water from the ground I have no idea. But if in fact it was salt water from rising sea levels it may explain at least a part of what happened.

For the age of that concrete there has been a lot of spalling reported. It's a sign of concrete deterioration. That can often be a sign of the corrosion of embedded steel (rebar)

A High water table will want to lift a structure. There were plenty of signs that are red flags in retrospect.

The challenge will be to figure out if other buildings are at risk, and what construction techniques should be used.

The structures in Florida should be robust because of wind. But the footings may have been part of the problem..

Maybe, if you don't live on a sandbar

Possibly.

The reality is large buildings have been constructed along the shores of the world for a long time without falling down. No doubt many aren't sandy as in Florida, but many are.

Normal settling shouldn't be a problem. Obviously something in this case went above "normal", be it continued settling, natural causes, or manmade failure of some sort.

In the end I suspect it will be a little of all of the above. Something caused the bowels of that building to fail in a critical manner.

Still no word on Judy, the wife of our friend who was in the building at the time it collapsed.

My wife who has kept close to a few who are in the loop so to speak say the husband and children have faced the reality that rescue realistically isn't in the cards and hasn't been for several days.

Sad deal.

Sorry to hear that Peen. How sad.

That's terrible to hear. Prayers for their family.

I hate to hear the news that someone you know is more than likely a victim of the collapse. Prayers go out to the family.

First let me say I'm very sorry that a family friend of yours may end up being a victim.. That is indeed sad news.. Hope for the best for those folks.

Yeah, I'm aware that buildings settle..

Thanks. They weren't close personal friends, but I knew them well enough that if I saw them out on the street we would stop and chat for several minutes. As I said in a post early on, the woman was the wife of the hospital CEO where my wife worked for 20-25 years. My wife wrote most of his comments and speeches, advised on media relations and things of that nature. Thus, we attended many functions on a social yet professional level with the two of them.

Just hard to believe.

j/c

North Miami Beach condo building evacuated after review finds unsafe conditions

July 2, 2021 / 9:32 PM / AP

The city of North Miami Beach ordered the evacuation of a condominium building Friday after a review found unsafe conditions about five miles from the site of last week's deadly collapse in South Florida. An audit prompted by the collapse of Champlain Towers South in nearby Surfside found that the 156-unit Crestview Towers had been deemed structurally and electrically unsafe months ago, the city said in a news release.

"In an abundance of caution, the City ordered the building closed immediately and the residents evacuated for their protection, while a full structural assessment is conducted and next steps are determined," City Manager Arthur H. Sorey III said in the news release.

The evacuation comes as municipal officials in South Florida, and statewide, are scrutinizing older high-rises in the wake of the Surfside collapse to ensure that substantial structural problems are not being ignored.

Evacuating residents hauling suitcases packed items into cars Friday evening outside the Crestview, which was built in 1972.

North Miami Beach commissioner Fortuna Smukler rushed to the building Friday afternoon. She said authorities were working to help the evacuated residents find places to go. She said with the approaching storm it was an especially stressful time for the residents. Smukler knows two people who are still unaccounted for in the Surfside building collapse.

"I ran here right away because this is important to me. I needed to ensure that what happened in Surfside doesn't happen here," she said. "It could have been our building instead of Surfside."

The mayor of Miami-Dade County had suggested an audit of buildings 40 years and older to make sure they are in compliance with the local recertification process after the condo building collapse last week that killed at least 22 people and left more than 120 still missing.

After reviewing files, the city Building and Zoning Department sent a notification that the Crestview building was not in compliance. On Friday, the building manager submitted a January recertification report in which an engineer hired by the condo association board found the property unsafe. The city then ordered all residents to evacuate immediately.

"I am concerned that more buildings are in this condition. Hopefully, this is an easy fix. Thankfully, we have at least evacuated the residents and no harm will come to them or their pets," Smukler said.

The Crestview condo association could not be immediately reached for comment on the delay between the January recertification report and Friday's evacuation.

The North Miami Beach Police Department was helping with the evacuation.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crestview-towers-north-miami-beach-evacuation/

58 Story building in San Fran has sunk 18" and tilted

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/05/us/san-francisco-millennium-tower-sinking/index.html

Okay, maybe this shouldn't be the one thing said in the article that stands out to me the most, yet it does.



Yes, the fact the building has sank that much in a little over ten years is alarming. The fact that it's tilting could end up being catastrophic. Yes it gives it credibility that the buildings current engineer is the one who is reporting it.

But beyond all of that, could you imagine having the name Ronald Hamburger? The only thing worse would be if your middle name was McDonald!

Sometimes names given to a reporter are not real names.

I have a buddy who was interviewed a few years ago. He didn't want to do the interview, and when the reporter wanted his name, and he told her it was "Hank Pym". (from the Ant Man movies)

It went to press, and then she found out he gave her a fake name. He said she was really ...... umm ... ticked off.

RONALD O. HAMBURGER

https://www.atcouncil.org/pdfs/hamburgerbio.pdf

Not this time.

Miami Beach apartment building evacuated due to concrete deterioration
The building is at least the fourth in Florida to be evacuated or partially evacuated since the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building. AP
July 13, 2021, 10:00 AM EDT / Updated July 13, 2021, 1:15 PM EDT
By Elisha Fieldstadt

A Miami Beach apartment building was evacuated by the city Monday due to concrete deterioration, an attorney for the building owners said.

The building at 6881 Indian Creek Drive is at least the fourth in Florida to be evacuated or partially evacuated since the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building in Surfside last month.

Two days after that collapse on June 24, Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava ordered an audit of buildings in the county that are five stories or higher and at or near 40 years old. She encouraged municipalities to do the same, offering the county's support.

Levine Cava said the audit should be completed within 30 days.

The Indian Creek Drive apartment building is 82 years old and two floors high. Miami Beach officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment Tuesday about what prompted the most recent review of the building that led to the evacuation.

Manny J. Vadillo, who represents the owners of 6881 Indian Creek Drive, told NBC News that the city of Miami Beach on Monday posted a notice to vacate the property.

The owners of the building, he said, have been "diligently" working with the city since they decided in May to demolish the building by December. They started to "vacate the building in an orderly fashion," according to Vadillo.

Fourteen people, half of which were paying rent, remained in the building, he said. Miami Beach is giving those tenants through the end of the week to evacuate, and the building's owners are helping them move, he said.

"My clients are extremely sensitive to safety and, in fact, visited the property several times since last week to speak with tenants when communications started with the city to ensure tenants were not caught by surprise," Vadillo said. "Some tenants have been there many years."

Earlier this month, evacuations were ordered for residents of the Crestview Towers Condominiums in North Miami Beach after building officials determined it was also unsafe.

Ninety-four people were confirmed dead in the Champlain Towers South collapse as of Monday.

Investigators have not determined what caused half the building to flatten in the middle of the night.

Documents released after the collapse included a 2018 report that highlighted an engineer's concerns that the building had "major structural damage." The engineer said his findings showed that there was "abundant cracking" and crumbling in the parking garage.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mia...?soc_src=aolapp

I wasn't going to bump the thread, but our friend was recovered on Monday. Her funeral was yesterday. No real details.

This is awful.
I'm sorry you lost your friend to this.

Sorry to hear that Peen. May God bless and comfort your friend's family and friends.

My prayers and condolences, Peen. How horrible.

Thanks.

Again, Judy wasn't a close personal friend by any means, but more than a passing acquaintance.

It's still hard to believe than someone we knew was in that mess.

So sorry to hear this Peen.

That really sucks, man. So sorry to hear that.

May they rest in peace..

FYI.....the Discovery Channel(DSCHD) has a show on tonight at 8p and and on again" at 12am titled "When Buildings Collapse: Disaster in Surfside". DVRs all set.

I'd imagine we'd have already heard about any new "revelations and/or the why's" of the tragedy.

... Added to library - thanks!

'Save lives, not just money': Surfside collapse grand jury report calls for reforms, warns of further troubles
Romina Ruiz-Goiriena
Rick Jervis
USA TODAY

MIAMI – A Miami-Dade County grand jury charged with looking into the deadly Florida building collapse said the state must pass sweeping reforms to avoid similar tragedies.

Among the recommendations included in the 43-page report:

A county ordinance requiring the recertification of buildings every 10 to 15 years instead of every 40 years, which should be extended statewide.
Mandating periodic inspections before recertification inspections are accepted.
Removing a provision of the Florida Condominium Act that allows condo boards to waive their obligation to fund reserves for building repairs.

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The report came almost six months after the 12-story, 136-unit Champlain Towers South building collapsed in Surfside, Florida, killing 98 people and sending shockwaves around the world.

The grand jury's findings are the first to be released amid a patchwork of federal, local and privately led investigations looking to determine what led to the building's demise. Grand juries in Miami-Dade are used for more than criminal indictments, also exploring broader issues of public health and safety.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...llapse-condo-safety-released/8906682002/