DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 3 49ers 31 Postgame Thoughts

IMHO, Baker is a system QB, he never performed well in stress situations. He's a good system QB, and can be effective, but he will never carry the team, he is not that type of QB and Kitchens should know it.

once again, I never said made me mad lol.

You really need to go back and read. I said it sucked because we were on the receiving end of it from baker, and now on the receiving end of it from Bosa - but I had no problem with Baker or Bosa doing it. I think it was funny.

I'm not speaking for Sperg', but when I criticize Freddie, I'm not absolving Baker, and vice-versa. Baker has his issues, and Freddie has his issues, and they are both affecting each other's performance. The debate worth having, IMO, is how the ratio of blame should fall.

So I agree that Freddie isn't doing Baker any favors. That statement should be taken on its own, and not used to absolve Baker of blame.

Planting the flag on an opponents field was unsportsmanlike...

Getting retribution by re-planting the flag 2 years later when you have both moved on to different teams at a different level of football in a different environment is childish and petty...

How did you miss the part about disagreeing w/out resorting to personal attacks? LOL........it was a demonstration on how to disagree w/out bad-mouthing the other poster.

I think that, once again, the Browns killed themselves with stupid mistakes.

1st drive: 2nd and 10 becomes 2nd and 15 due to a false start on Brown.
Rams then have a 1 play, 83 yard TD drive.

2nd drive: INT. A what the heck???? throw.

Last drive of the 1st half: Callaway blew a sure TD by letting the ball bounce off of his hands into the air for an INT, and return it from their own goal line to their 49 yard line. They then score another TD, and instead of it being 14-10, it's 21-3.

The Browns then get lucky when the Niners miss a FG before the half.

Starting the 2nd half, the Niners score another TD to go up 28-3.

This was a poor game from Baker, but he had plenty of help.

I also have to wonder about PFF and their rankings. Scjobert has 11 solo tackles, (with 1 TFL) and gets a 30 rating for the game. Adarius Taylor has no tackles, and has a rating of over 50. Gotta call BS on that one.

How in the world did you take that as a personal attack? For a guy who throws a lot of stones, you sure have remarkably thin skin and don't seem to understand that YOU DO EXACTLY what you complain about in others...except YOU are usually the one doing it.

I didn't see that as a what the heck throw..

In the video it looks like Callaway is a couple steps behind him.. Baker is getting grabbed at release but if he throws that ball another 3 yards its probably a touchdown.

It was no less childish and petty the first time. Putting a different label on it doesn't change that.

Unless of course you wish to use the "NFL officials" line of thinking. We don't throw a penalty flag on the person who initiated the fight. We only throw the flag on the person who reciprocates.

Most unsportsmanlike behavior is also childish and petty.. sorry you took my different terms as defending or excusing one more than the other.. I was just using the words that had already been used..

Hey oober, I guess I have to clarify something. I was NOT saying your post to me was a personal attack. I think you know that, but I felt the need to explain just in case.

What I was saying that my reply to Sperg was an example of how to disagree w/out mentioning a thing about the other person's character, morals, etc. Just so you know, I would not have even replied to Sperg's post and would gladly have let it stand unchallenged. I was just trying to show how one can disagree w/out making things personal.

Hopefully, this thread will be locked soon.

Yeah, I think they highlighted the play even ... Kush got pushed back just enough into Baker to make him underthrow it by a few yards

I saw one of the guys on ESPN break down that play. I think it was Dan Orlovsky. He said Baker should have thrown it to the guy who was open in the intermediate area and it was a bad decision because Callaway was bracketed. There was another defender over the top of Callaway. It was a poor decision, especially since he was being pressured.

It’s another example of the lack of progression that he has during each play. Unless he starts to shift his attention to the backside of plays (or checkdowns) instead of going to his first read that’s a HR ball ... we’ll struggle

They asked Mayfield about Bosa's "flag plant" at a presser yesterday and he said "Good for him. Its been two years - that's a long time to think about a loss.". You could imagine him winking while he said it. He clearly doesn't place a lot of currency in all this smack-down drama, whether its outgoing or incoming, even if the media and the fans do.

Well I will respectfully disagree with Dan then.. the only other deep defender is #20 who is running diagonally in a sprint trying to catch Callaway because he sees what I see, if that ball gets over Sherman, there is nobody back there.

If you go to the link provided and pause it on the 5 second spot, the underneath guy has two LBs in front of him, a safety trailing, Sherman in front.. Callaway is absolutely breaking wide open behind it all.. If Baker had another half second, it's a TD... fitting it into the underneath guy would have been difficult.

I read that part and agree with it. I was trying to do the same. I read a lot of these posts that make it sound like it's all Freddie's fault or all Baker's fault... and because it's all the one's fault the other shoulders 0 blame. I don't agree with that take (whether it was intended by the respective poster or not). I'm not even saying you are doing this, just simply further explaining and clarifying my pov. I believe both Mayfield and Kitchens are stinking it up, and their individual stinkiness adds to the other's. I also believe both have shown enough that they can be the respective 'guys' at their positions on this team.

What is our progression tree? Does anyone know? Is it right to left, left to right, short to deep, deep to short .........?

They’ve said deep to short many times that I can recall, and given our current problems that seems to be the case

I just see so many people talking about scheme, but we don't really know what the scheme is. We can have opinions, but we just don't know for sure how his read progression is supposed to go.

I would also be interested in how often we are in max protect vs 3 or 4 receiver sets. Last year we made max protect work well for us. This year ..... not so much.

Much has been made of Baker holding the ball too lone, and perhaps part of that is scheme, as well, if he is reading deep to short.

I also don't know why we aren't using more screens. The Niners ran one against us that went for a big gain .... allowing the DL to penetrate and then a nice little toss top a wide open back out of the backfield. Man, we have a great RB in Chubb, and capable ones in Hilliard and Johnson. I don't know why we aren't using them to give the defense something to think about.

I also do think that missing 2 of Baker's main targets, in Higgins and Njoku, has hurt him. Some say "excuses!", but I think that he established a trust with those 2 guys. I think that missing them hurts the team, and Baker.

I do think that the Bye week will be important for the Browns coaching staff to watch all of the tape, and get this mess straightened out. We have a lot of problems on this team. About the only area that has been mostly consistently effective is special teams. We really need to get the offense and defense straightened out.

It was a great quote and moment in the presser. He handled that and the questions about Sherman well yesterday.

Wonder how long he will think about Monday's loss, and the massive turd he laid there.

IMO, a QB has to be like a relief pitcher and have a short memory. If a game blows up on you, you have to be able to file it and forget it. (The only proviso being that you have to be able to retain any lessons that you learned in that loss.)

Agree 100%. The time to go back and stew over losses and poor performances is immediately after said game, and after the end of the season. When the team starts preparing for the next opponent, that previous game is officially ancient history.

I agree w you, a QB needs a short memory.

In some ways I agree and in other ways not so much. If he can't look back on his mistakes and learn from them, how will he ever improve?

Hopefully he is done thinking about it. We have Seattle Sunday and that is the only game he should be thinking about.

There is a reason why Mayfield was drafted #1 overall and why so many teams coveted him.

I have no problem w/you disagreeing. You did so w/out the insults that others resort to.

I will only add that that was a long pass and those guys can travel great distances in that amount of time. There was also a receiver running the intermediate middle that was wide open. I have no problem w/you disagreeing, but I still think it was dumb-ass throw.

This guy is like captain obvious.

I agree ... he’s just not showing that at the moment and we’ve gotten away from stuff that he’s good at doing. He’s gotta improve and so does everyone else

Getting away from things he is good at doing is a coaching problem.

Yep. I bet the coaching staff is telling him to throw into double coverage twice as much as the next ranked guy. I bet the coaching staff is telling him to pass up open receivers and hold the ball and then try to outrun dudes who are faster than him. I bet the coaches are telling him to sail balls way over the receiver's heads.

Fire Freddie. Fire 'em all!!!!

Freddie is a crappy coach, and I'll be glad when all of them are gone after this season. And we can bring in some quality coaching candidates.