This can’t be it. There’s just now way this is the best this team can do with all this talent.
I’m just at a loss for words.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
If dorsey insists on keeping kitchens he can go. Promote wolf and get an experienced coach
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
This game went exactly the way I thought. Coaching is a big problem, but I have to say I believe this "team" is not a "team" at all. A group of players is all I see, no discipline, no drive, and IMO, any accountability they talk about having, is a farce. We will not win again this year.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
If dorsey insists on keeping kitchens he can go. Promote wolf and get an experienced coach
I agree, Dorsey can't keep Kitchens now. Team had the talent to make playoffs but not the coaching!
What if Dorsey keeps Kitchens because he is the type of guy who can't admit he made a mistake? They both may need to go, and can for all I care. Wilks too, what a casterated performance from his defense against his old team.
It's like the coaches and players heard it would take a major collapse the last 3 weeks for a coaching change to happen and they collectively decided to make sure that it happens
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
- The players have zero respect for Freddie. He needs to go. The players have clearly quit on him. Even last week they were just going through the motions.
- I have real concerns about Baker.
- It's December, Christmas is near and the Browns are a complete dumpster fire. 'Tis the season!
- Landry yelling at Freddie says it all.
- Browns beat by a bad team....again.
- Browns fail to show up and win a game that they have to win....again.
- The defense just doesn't care anymore.
- I said tongue and cheek in the gameday thread, "the players are doing their part to make sure there is a horrific collapse" to end Freddie's reign of terror. I'm actually starting to believe maybe they are.
- Nick Chubb is amazing. Make sure he gets the rushing title.
- Just get this season over with, this clown show has just become embarrassing.
- Browns tickets going back to costing less than a high school game. They were as low as $9 against the Bengals.
Major concerns about Baker and our team’s direction at this point
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Here is something that puzzles me. All the recieving talent we have and our recievers are never open, never any separation and we can barely complete a pass past 10 yards. Other teams recievers are always open with yards of seperation torching us 15-20 yards downfield and our DB'd NEVER know where the ball is. How many picks we had? They can't find the football.
Here is something that puzzles me. All the recieving talent we have and our recievers are never open, never any separation and we can barely complete a pass past 10 yards. Other teams recievers are always open with yards of seperation torching us 15-20 yards downfield and our DB'd NEVER know where the ball is. How many picks we had? They can't find the football.
Kitchens was in way over his head this year. We all know it. If you thought he would get better and take control, maybe you would bring him back. But I do not see it. I would take Meyer, McCarthy, Rivera and several others next year. We need someone with a presence who can impose discipline. And we can’t be sure we have our QB. I hope we do, but I don’t know.
Done for the year. Next to another meaningless offseason win for the Browns to just fall short of when the rubber meets the road. If Dorsey and Haslam don’t replace Kitchens and company, many will be angry and this awesome roster wasted.
Here is something that puzzles me. All the recieving talent we have and our recievers are never open, never any separation and we can barely complete a pass past 10 yards. Other teams recievers are always open with yards of seperation torching us 15-20 yards downfield and our DB'd NEVER know where the ball is. How many picks we had? They can't find the football.
The scheme is horrible, pathetic is a better word
In a word Predictable!
If your placing the blame on our talent, then you are bying unto The BS we've been feed every week this season.
Then their is our defense. Are our players really that terrible?
If changes aren’t made, next Sunday will be very ugly
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Another presser and Freddie will not admit that Baker played like trash.
30/43 247yds 2TD 1INT I wouldn't say that's trash..definately missed some throws could have been better. The real trash in this game was on the other side of the field that got lit up for what 450 yards and 38 points by the 24th ranked offense.
If changes aren’t made, next Sunday will be very ugly
I think next Sunday will be ugly, regardless of any changes made.
One trick pony rides again.
Nothing is going to be done prior to season's end. The Browns are going to get throttled next week at home and sent off the field to a chorus of BOOs (if any Browns fans are actually in the stands at the end of the game). That chorus should ring loud and clear to Haslam and Dorsey.
I do not expect the Browns to win another game and frankly it doesn't really matter at this point.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
Man, this game sucked, because we had something to play for ..... and we got wiped out.
I dunno what to think.
Is it personnel? Is it coaching? Is it a little of both?
The Rams also had something to play for ...... and they got wiped out by a very ordinary Dallas team.
I want Freddie to come back, but I also was a "senior assistant" added, perhaps brought in as associate head coach.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Agreed. This team has quit. Heck, they quit before the 2nd Pittsburgh game where if they won they would have been in the drivers seat for a wild card. This is on the coaches pure and simple. It doesn't matter if we win another game this season. If we don't we will have a higher draft pick which, of course, we will probably mess up. Ridiculous.
FK is not a smart coach. I hate firing a coach every year or three, but he’s a dumbass. We should have called timeouts on D at end of first half to preserve the clock and maybe get a chance to at least kick a field goal.
Nope, we did not.
His game-management skills are embarrassing, now the players are calling him on it.
The sense of the team quitting is as bad as I can recall
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Baltimore will put 50 on us. After all the talk when we beat them, they will come ready to put the beatdown on these underachievers. The defense without Garrett is horrible. His misjudgement hurt this team majorly.
We beat the Steelers, and still lost. That is the story of this whole year.
This team is so S-O-F-T. There are only 2 players who I would consider tough, hard-nosed football players. Chubb and Hunt. Everyone else, soft as the day is long. DBs are absolutely the softest. Greedy Williams, please.
I'm just glad we didn't let a single game go by where we don't try that killer shovel pass behind the line of scrimmage in a crucial situation, because that never works, except for the one freaking time that it did somehow work LAST YEAR.
The sense of the team quitting is as bad as I can recall
Even Hue's players didn't quit like this. The last time I remember something this bad was during the end of Chud's season.
I now truely believe Bob Wylie's comments that Freddie took the credit for everyone's work last year. Only the players know the truth and thier heart shows thier commitment to thier coach. I think fat Freddie is BS artist that Bs'ed his way into a headcoaching job and now we see the results.
Our DBs are among the worst I’ve witnessed ... Greedy is garbage, Ward is soft, and the others are traffic cones
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Between Jarvis’ outburst, OBJ’s body language, Baker’s regression, our defense’s effort .. how in the HECK can we keep this staff?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
The sense of the team quitting is as bad as I can recall
Even Hue's players didn't quit like this. The last time I remember something this bad was during the end of Chud's season.
I now truely believe Bob Wylie's comments that Freddie took the credit for everyone's work last year. Only the players know the truth and thier heart shows thier commitment to thier coach. I think fat Freddie is BS artist that Bs'ed his way into a headcoaching job and now we see the results.
I sincerely hope this isn't true, but the results this season make me wonder...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
The Rams also had something to play for ...... and they got wiped out by a very ordinary Dallas team.
I want Freddie to come back, but I also was a "senior assistant" added, perhaps brought in as associate head coach.
Dallas had something to play for, too, with the Eagles winning earlier.
The Browns showed up like they had absolutely nothing to play for. I guess the defense took Syeve Wilkes' comments to heart when he said this week's game against Arizona was "just another game."
If Freddie needs a babysitter to coach him through the year, he's not the guy. A special assistant coach isn't going to make the players respect him.
Freddie was a gamble that blew up in Dorsey's face. Walk away from the table, don't keep going to the ATM hoping the jackpot is bound to happen.
I don't believe that I have ever felt so worn down and disillusioned in any season...
yeah, the expectations and hope basically just made this all more difficult to handle
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
When I watched AZ march right down the field on their opening drive, I knew the game was already lost. It wasn't the score. It was CLE's body language. They played like they didn't want to be in the NFL.
When a team gives up on its playoff hopes in the 1st quarter of a must-win December game, that's as ugly as it gets.
That's the bad news.
The good news: I was able to decorate my Christmas tree from start to finish this afternoon. I had a great time with My Hunny, and the tree looks good, too.
More good news: My Sundays are my own again. I no longer feel the need to have them held hostage by this loosely-associated collection of bums who dress alike and run around doing stuff for 3 hours per week.
As lackluster as the offense was, the defense was worse.... but, when we're missing both our starting DEs in a scheme that requires that we get pressure, this is about what I would expect.
Again, I saw them run right into the gap just vacated by a DLine shooting to an inside gap where nobody backfilled.... and it gashed us. It's almost like it is by design.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
If you do not have serious concern over Baker right now, I don't know what to tell you. He's the worst QB in the NFL currently. And there is some trash out there.
No meaningful wins in two years. No playoffs in two years. Beat up on the dregs of the league last year. Gets beat up by the dregs of the league this year. 1:1 TD:Int ratio.
What I'm about to add is going to be an even more unpopular opinion that is sure to draw some harsh criticism (as if the above isn't), but unless you are one of the established dominant defenses in the league, you kind of go as your offense and QB go. Defensive effort reflects the belief that the offense will put up enough points to win the game and that effort will be rewarded. If Mayfield could have made any plays today to keep the game close, I think the defense would have been more inspired. But they knew he couldn't keep up.
This is why I said this year is all about Baker. If he takes a step forward, we would be enjoying a successful season. If he doesn't, well, this is what you get.
We are still searching for the franchise QB after all these years, including two years of tanking just to get the guy. Just sad.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
The franchise QB seems to have abandoned us. Just inconsistent. How do you account for Chubb's success with this line? I can make no sense of a lot of what I see.
Today stunk and it was hard to watch. Angry players like we saw are welcome to me, at least somebody cares. Just lousy game again.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I remember this one because I commented to my friend that the home run was there. Baker seems to pick who he is throwing to and misses some outside routes that are open.
Why? If he is seeing the field and looking around, then he should see it.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I’ve been trying not to critique baker as harshly as I use to simply because Freddie is that bad. Freddie needs to go, but it will suck because that will mean baker in two seasons will then be on his 4th HC and 3rd OC.
We were sold on this basically being the same offensive scheme, with the only change that OBJ replaced Perriman and takes us to the next level.
But this scheme is nothing like what we ran last season at all.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
But this scheme is nothing like what we ran last season at all.
Maybe it's not all that different but teams caught up. It's a chess match. Ok, Baker let's see how you do when we switch to zone post snap. Your move.
When we watch games on TV, we only have the eye test and years and years of watching football, from great players to terrible players, to kind of gauge what we are seeing. Other than a strong arm and the willingness to push up the field and throw the ball more than 10 yards a handful of times a game, doesn't this feel just like any number of quarterbacks that have marched through here? Baker was simply horrendous today. He wasn't the only reason we lost, but he contributed a lot to it. This is game 14 of his second season with the best collection of skill players in the league. This feels bad. For as harsh as I am, I am even more concerned. Baker not panning out will be catastrophic.
Major regression in his second season. No signature wins that actually mean something. Worst rated QB in the league.
That's not all coaching.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Is it really that difficult to change schemes and coaches?
Serious question.
I know people make a big deal about it.
Then I see examples like when Shanny came in here and had our O decent in less than a year with fricken Hoyer.
Regardless of this question, you can't continue with Freddie. Too many players have regressed under his watch. Promising players don't get on the field or are traded. The team's best player acted like a knucklehead and seriously harmed the team. The team's "franchise" QB is the worst in the league after setting the rookie TD record.
You cannot continue with Freddie based on a "hope" that these things will get rectified. The list is too long and the damage caused is already too great. That's a lot to stake on hope.
I believe this will take care of itself in the form of double digit losses. We obviously will not win next week, and Cincy will be a repeat of today.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
My uneducated opinion is that it depends on the coach and scheme. It’s difficult to go from a 4-3 to a 3-4, for example. Hell it requires different kind of players.
On offense, for the players actively learning the scheme it might not be a big deal or all that difficult.
I think what makes it difficult is the lack of continuity and always swapping it up. It also has to be a combination of changing scheme and coaches that makes it exhausting for players. How much motivation and such will you have to nail the scheme down if history has shown that you’re gonna have to learn a new one with a new coach the following season? That’s how you get players demanding trades or releases, and not being able to attract top tier coaches.
There always a catch to whatever we decide to do with this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Is it really that difficult to change schemes and coaches?
Serious question.
I know people make a big deal about it.
Then I see examples like when Shanny came in here and had our O decent in less than a year with fricken Hoyer.
Regardless of this question, you can't continue with Freddie. Too many players have regressed under his watch. Promising players don't get on the field or are traded. The team's best player acted like a knucklehead and seriously harmed the team. The team's "franchise" QB is the worst in the league after setting the rookie TD record.
You cannot continue with Freddie based on a "hope" that these things will get rectified. The list is too long and the damage caused is already too great. That's a lot to stake on hope.
I believe this will take care of itself in the form of double digit losses. We obviously will not win next week, and Cincy will be a repeat of today.
Yep. I'll repost this again b/c it seems so relevant to the Browns' current fiasco...
How is that possible that the defense knows that we'll what the offense in a professional system is going to do?
Also saw this video, and I know it has MKC in it but she mentioned a blurb about seeing Haslem and Dorsey and they didn't look happy. What fan or someone invested in the team would but its interesting.
Meh, baker will be fine eventually. He was deadly accurate last year and we have only seen glimpses of that this year. And even though he had limited reps early last year, he had much more chemistry with the WRs, timing his throws and throwing strikes. Those skills don't just disappear. Something has them off.
Rather they keep Fred or not, I think the QB coach WRs coach and both coordinators should be shown the door. If Fred is still here next year it should only be if he's given up play calling. Personally I'd prefer a new HC but I will understand if they stick with him another year or two. After we gave Chud a one and done our HC job became toxic. Last year we had HCs wanting to come here. I prefer the later.
At this point it's easy to see somethings off and I think it's the OC and DC more than anything. I know Fred is not that involved on the D side yet we have been wildly inconsistent on D. The O isn't working either, but I think it's more to do with scheme and fitting plays to the talent. This is not an air raid team, period. Run first and play action, that's what works for us. Then Bakers deep stuff will open up a few times a game again. I think Monken worked too much of his stuff into the O, and Fred probably let him because he's more experienced. Fred was a position coach until mid year last year and had never been anything more than that. We were nuts to think he would just take the reins of the whole show and crush the league.
In Fred's defence I will say that he has learned some this year and with an off season to absorb the information he's learned he might be okay in the future, but I have my doubts. This year he was as raw an HC as you can get.
anyone who watched that game and came away from it with baker was the problem has a variation of that new political disease, baker derangement syndrome, or bds. And to suggest that our defense absolutely sucked because they did not think baker could keep up is just a symptom of the disease.
With the exception of nick, our offense has never looked right. Compared to last season it has looked stagnant and uninspired. Not sure you can isolate one cause but I do not think playcalling is one of them.
Twenty plus years ago my college basketball team had a young guard who started for 2-3 years and was a good player for us. The next season he was the 13th player on the bench and almost never got into games. And it was not because better players were recruited to the team. No one outside the team ever found out what happened. That situation reminded me of r. Higgins. I thought he was going to be a real factor in our offense and he has disappeared from view. That has been a real disappointment. I am sure he will be gone after the season.
I am sure he will be gone after the season. I wonder if he will comment on what happened
I'm not concerned about Baker at all. I would agree that the coaching is an issue with him. I always have hope that will improve, but I'm starting to get leery.
Baker is the same quarterback as he was last year. He's not as inaccurate as everyone claims. I've never seen a team lineup improperly as much as we have. It's week 15 and the players still don't know what they're doing, where to line up, what route to run.
Does Baker throw bad passes? All quarterbacks do.
And this whole Baker has regressed stuff is for the birds. Aside from Lamar and a few others, there are quite a bit of quarterbacks who have regressed this year... Goff, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Mahomes...
I think it's ridiculous where some of our fans have gotten. Some are impatient as the owner. Brees's first two seasons as the starter he had 28 touchdowns and 31 interceptions. I know he hurt his shoulder, but imagine if the chargers never gave up on him...
Some of you are being a bit ridiculous it seems. We've got issues on both lines now. When you lose in the trenches, you get whooped. We knew we could use an upgrade at both OT spots coming into the season, and now Tretter has been effectively playing on one leg recently. Tretter and McCray are the only ones really familiar with the way Campen wants things done.
On defense, we're missing our top 2 DEs, one of whom is usually our most impactful defender. We're also giving a good bit of playing time to guys who weren't on any active rosters and who aren't familiar with the system all along the DL. Lack of pass rush is leading to softer coverage and longer amounts of time DBs have to stay in it.
It's easy to blame Freddie and coaching, but how do you predict something like a helmet swing? How do you overcome underperforming and/or not very talented lines? Lines that are still adjusting to new ways of doing things? A top receiver who has missed a ton of practice time and is trying to play hurt?
It's been/gotten pretty miserable, but I think people are succumbing to recency bias. We beat the "world beater" Ravens earlier in the season. We've seen 0-16 teams in the past that couldn't beat bottomfeeders.
We struggled early in the season when lots of new pieces were trying to gel (especially on the coaching side, how did we expect run formation Freddie vs throw heavy Monken to not take some time?), then we started to roll a little bit, then we lost our pass rush and the OL got banged up and we inevitably struggled, now we're looking at missing the playoffs after Super Bowl aspirations and the losing got to/is getting to people.
Another change in coaching would mean another adjustment period. Another adjustment period would probably start with more losing. I think we have to give Freddie another year. Just getting Myles back should help a lot. Same if we can shore up even one of the OT spots.
Does Freddie have things he needs to improve on? Yes, but he can focus on them in the off-season. He will have a better grasp on what he didn't know that he didn't know. Isn't year 2 often the biggest jump?
Time management, discipline, these are things that should improve. Having the Myles' example should make discipline fairly easy.
Maybe bring in an Urban Meyer in the off-season to consult on sports psychology for a week or two.
Worrying about losing his job/people calling for his head isn't going to help him coach any better. In fact, it'll probably make it harder. Players will hear it, too, and it'll give them an excuse to shift blame off themselves.
Everyone in the organization needs to do better. It's a lot easier to improve with support.
Did Freddie get promoted too soon? Probably, but that doesn't mean he won't grow into it. Lots of great first time coaches struggled at first. Very few first time coaches got thrown into situations that have been as historically disfunctional as the (recent) Browns.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I really want to think like you laid out there...I really do.
But FK's team is not showing any improvement and the only thing we do reasonably well is kick & punt...and we have plenty of talent.
In the first quarter yesterday we had to burn a timeout because we couldn't get out of the huddle fast enough...again...in game #14. All throughout the game, Baker was having to tell guys where to line up...again. We actually got a delay of game penalty on offense to START a quarter...in game #14...to START a quarter. I think that's a new one...remarkably.
I'm a fan of continuity...but continuity of WHAT? We don't do anything well and insist on stubbornly doubling down on poor play-calling WITH poor execution.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Besides the poor clock management, there are consistent head scratchers in play calling. Two plays yesterday put my blood pressure to the ceiling: the obligatory/weekly shovel pass on 3rd and 2, and the play that schemed for Demetrius Harris to block the Cardinals' sack leader, Chandler Jones, one-on-one. Mayfield got obliterated on that play. I was actually surprised he got up after that hit. Greg Robinson and Demetrius Harris together *might* have a chance against Chandler Jones. Harris alone had no chance. Just like last week against the Bengals when "somebody" thought it was a good idea to isolate TE Stephen Carlson in pass protection against Carlos Dunlap. Carlson whiffed, much like Harris did yesterday, and Baker took a huge hit then too.
The point is there comes a time when you say "this isn't working" and you stop doing it. But Freddie never seems to reach that point. He is either stubborn to a fault, or just stupid, and I don't think he's stupid. But we're entering the week of the 15th game, and I don't see any improvement or growth.
Realistically 6-10 7-9 8-8 was where I believed this team would end up. Hyped expectations were winning the AFCN.
What the biggest problem is the lack of urgency and desire to win in order to keep play-off hopes alive. Watching uninspired football over and over is damaging my fandom and heart for the team.
It's hard to explain.. this team was close..but yet for some reason i don't care to watch the same story season after season .
Right now we have one player that goes out and plays "inspired football" - Nick Chubb. There are certain cliches that always hold true in this game... if you don't have a group of players that go out and face their individual opponent like they "stole their lunch money", you don't win football games.
Yesterday, for the first time, I actually watched players going through the motions. They are beaten. They don't have confidence in their coaches, they don't have confidence in their QB, there are no real "team leaders" and there is no "will to win". It's sad - and it's hard to watch.
This can’t be it. There’s just now way this is the best this team can do with all this talent.
I’m just at a loss for words.
I'll go back to the first post because it says it all. "On paper" we had so much talent that we expected some instant synergy just based on talent alone. So much talent that we were cocky and arrogant from the top down before we even had a plan.
Instead of "synergy", we've watched one of the most disjointed exhibitions of wasted talent that I've ever seen... And it's so confusing and mind boggling that I don't even know where to start. I guess all you can do is start at the top and work your way down.
At this point, I'm pretty much rooting for the players to pack it in and lose their next 2 games ... only to force Dorsey's hand and save him from himself and his desire to keep Kitchens around for another year. The leadership on this team is abysmal.
This can’t be it. There’s just now way this is the best this team can do with all this talent.
I’m just at a loss for words.
I'll go back to the first post because it says it all. "On paper" we had so much talent that we expected some instant synergy just based on talent alone. So much talent that we were cocky and arrogant from the top down before we even had a plan.
Instead of "synergy", we've watched one of the most disjointed exhibitions of wasted talent that I've ever seen... And it's so confusing and mind boggling that I don't even know where to start. I guess all you can do is start at the top and work your way down.
Certainly Freddie couldn't think it would all be as easy pushing a button here and pulling a string there...Could he?!...
How many times this year has the proponent said or alluded-to that?
3 or 4 times this year we've heard this, other times they probably just didn't say anything. It does always seem like the defense is running to the spot at the snap of the ball...
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
The lack of desire was EVIDENT fairly quickly this season .. heck, it started with the Tennessee game ... and when things didn’t improve much over the next game or so, I figured this team was a lost cause. Sure, talent would win out in some instances, but we don’t have “it”
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
If the coaches comment from Joseph has been heard before I am amazed it has not been brought up in the presser of Freddie or monken at some point. That does seem relevant.
This can’t be it. There’s just now way this is the best this team can do with all this talent.
I’m just at a loss for words.
I'll go back to the first post because it says it all. "On paper" we had so much talent that we expected some instant synergy just based on talent alone. So much talent that we were cocky and arrogant from the top down before we even had a plan.
Instead of "synergy", we've watched one of the most disjointed exhibitions of wasted talent that I've ever seen... And it's so confusing and mind boggling that I don't even know where to start. I guess all you can do is start at the top and work your way down.
Certainly Freddie couldn't think it would all be as easy pushing a button here and pulling a string there...Could he?!...
Sure he could! His GM told him it would be. His QB probably told him it would be. The meteoric rise from the previous season told him it would be. All eyes in Berea were googly and all mouths were salivating. Along comes Hunt, Jarvis and OBJ put their fists together - "Wonder Twins - Activate!" The media said we were going to the Superbowl...
At this point, I'm pretty much rooting for the players to pack it in and lose their next 2 games ... only to force Dorsey's hand and save him from himself and his desire to keep Kitchens around for another year. The leadership on this team is abysmal.
If this happens, you potentially have to put Dorsey up on the chopping block as well...
How many times this year has the proponent said or alluded-to that?
3 or 4 times this year we've heard this, other times they probably just didn't say anything. It does always seem like the defense is running to the spot at the snap of the ball...
I really think that this is an over-simplification.
All teams have tendencies. All teams use certain formations, and run specific plays out of them. Every play call has different reads within it, and the QB has to read what the defense is doing, and react appropriately.
I think the execution is the biggest problems.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
There's some truth to this. They know what Baker is going to do with the ball.
I'm convinced coaching is a factor here as well, however. I don't know that Baker is being coached correctly what to do with the ball.
Things are different this year than last. It's not like Baker had a natural regression kinda like Goff. We've changed coaches all around. Different offense. He's going to have to deal with the same thing next year. Probably.
Well, we often know as well. Red Zone isn't a tendency as much as an absolute. He gets goofier closer to the goal line. I believe they had us figured out before the snap.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I think one of the biggest issues is Baker isn't getting good coaching when he comes off the sidelines.. The fact that kitchens hired Lindley over Zampese to entrust to his franchise QB is where it should have really started to resonate that maybe this isn't the right guy to lead the team.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
1, his mechanics have changed. I don't know if that is from lifting to much weights in the offseason and his shoulder losing flexibility or if the coaches tried to change something.
2, the pocket has not been as clean as it was last season.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
In regards to the defense knowing what play is coming, I can predict it more than half the time. If I can tell most of the time whether we are running left or running right or passing the ball, then I am sure someone who actually knows football and studies our tendencies can do so at an even higher rate.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
I saw multiple times yesterday where he just didn’t trust what he saw or didn’t see anything at all. He hitched, pumped, then just ducked/ran
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak #Browns Freddie Kitchens on defensive losses through season: We're never going to make excuses, but we did have 2 really good ends and 2 safeties who were playing pretty well.
Right now we have one player that goes out and plays "inspired football" - Nick Chubb. There are certain cliches that always hold true in this game... if you don't have a group of players that go out and face their individual opponent like they "stole their lunch money", you don't win football games.
Yesterday, for the first time, I actually watched players going through the motions. They are beaten. They don't have confidence in their coaches, they don't have confidence in their QB, there are no real "team leaders" and there is no "will to win". It's sad - and it's hard to watch.
I think you can put Hunt and Landry on that list. Baker is trying
I hope this isn't true. Does it make much sense? Why would anyone want to go the Cardinals?
Stuff like this makes me think Baker has been emasculated. He may never recover. He's gone from being an alpha male and revered to no one wanting to play with him anymore.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I hope this isn't true. Does it make much sense? Why would anyone want to go the Cardinals?
Stuff like this makes me think Baker has been emasculated. He may never recover. He's gone from being an alpha male and revered to no one wanting to play with him anymore.
I see it as an indictment against Freddie ... not Baker.
I hope this isn't true. Does it make much sense? Why would anyone want to go the Cardinals?
Stuff like this makes me think Baker has been emasculated. He may never recover. He's gone from being an alpha male and revered to no one wanting to play with him anymore.
I see it as an indictment against Freddie ... not Baker.
Nope. It's Baker. Read it again, it's obvious no one wants to play with Baker.
[quote=MemphisBrownie]From our good friend, Mike Silver.
Its Mike Silver guys, he is a joke
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I’ve watched this over and over. I don’t think, at least in this GIF, that the pass back to Baker was a called play . I watched the line and it looks like it was just a shovel pass where Landry follows Bitonio as a running back would. The Cards just blew up the play. I think the toss back to Baker was just a desperation attempt to get anything from a broken play.
I hope this isn't true. Does it make much sense? Why would anyone want to go the Cardinals?
Stuff like this makes me think Baker has been emasculated. He may never recover. He's gone from being an alpha male and revered to no one wanting to play with him anymore.
I see it as an indictment against Freddie ... not Baker.
Nope. It's Baker. Read it again, it's obvious no one wants to play with Baker.
Your inference from this quote is ridiculous, LOL.
Besides the poor clock management, there are consistent head scratchers in play calling. Two plays yesterday put my blood pressure to the ceiling: the obligatory/weekly shovel pass on 3rd and 2, and the play that schemed for Demetrius Harris to block the Cardinals' sack leader, Chandler Jones, one-on-one. Mayfield got obliterated on that play. I was actually surprised he got up after that hit. Greg Robinson and Demetrius Harris together *might* have a chance against Chandler Jones. Harris alone had no chance. Just like last week against the Bengals when "somebody" thought it was a good idea to isolate TE Stephen Carlson in pass protection against Carlos Dunlap. Carlson whiffed, much like Harris did yesterday, and Baker took a huge hit then too.
The point is there comes a time when you say "this isn't working" and you stop doing it. But Freddie never seems to reach that point. He is either stubborn to a fault, or just stupid, and I don't think he's stupid. But we're entering the week of the 15th game, and I don't see any improvement or growth.
I enjoy your reading your posts and normally agree with your take on things,but this time you are putting the blame on the wrong person. The Cards did a d-line shift before the snap putting Jones one on one with the TE.the QB,Mr.Numbnuts,either didn't see it or didn't realize what it meant,so he did nothing. When he got blasted,I said "good maybe that will knock some sense into you". After recognizing who I was talking to,I then said "too bad he didn't break your F'n neck" When the QB is football illiterate,and lacks the necessary tools to get the team out of bad plays,the play calling will look horrendous.
If you watch, Harris did a quick block and release and was looking for the ball as baker was getting sacked. I believe either there was a breakdown on Harris part as he thought he was supposed to release get a dump off (as baker wasn't even looking his way) or baker didn't know the play.
I would say that Harris was in the wrong, as baker is the one who called the play in the huddle. Just my .02
And Hunt was wide open after Baker got the ball. He had time to get it to him but never even looked. I saw it live and the video confirms. He just ran into tacklers.
And Hunt was wide open after Baker got the ball. He had time to get it to him but never even looked. I saw it live and the video confirms. He just ran into tacklers.
Would not have mattered if every eligible receiver was wide open - can't make two forward passes on one play.
If you watch the video below, you see a DT lined up in the gap between Bitonio and Robinson, while Chandler Jones was in a stand up position out wide over TE Harris. The guy over Bitonio and Robinson did not need to be double teamed, especially when their best pass rusher was isolated on a TE. Whether Mayfield or Robinson or somebody should have recognized it wasn't really my point. My point was that the same thing happened the week before with TE Stephen Carlson getting the dubious assignment to "block" Carlos Dunlap, which resulted in Mayfield taking a big hit just as he was releasing the ball. Someone (HC? OC?) needed to make a note of that and see to it that we didn't scheme ourselves into that same situation without a plan to mitigate it.
If you watch the video below, you see a DT lined up in the gap between Bitonio and Robinson, while Chandler Jones was in a stand up position out wide over TE Harris. The guy over Bitonio and Robinson did not need to be double teamed, especially when their best pass rusher was isolated on a TE. Whether Mayfield or Robinson or somebody should have recognized it wasn't really my point. My point was that the same thing happened the week before with TE Stephen Carlson getting the dubious assignment to "block" Carlos Dunlap, which resulted in Mayfield taking a big hit just as he was releasing the ball. Someone (HC? OC?) needed to make a note of that and see to it that we didn't scheme ourselves into that same situation without a plan to mitigate it.
The plan to mitigate it is to get the ball out quick. Landry is the only pass catcher on the field that Baker really trusts. Landry tried to do a stupid spin move and fell over. When your intended target is on the ground and you have to get the ball out quick, bad things happen.
I'm pretty sure Landry eating turf wasn't in the play design.
It's stupid stuff like that all the time that's practically impossible to predict. I don't know if it is players trying to do too much or what.
Maybe Gregg Williams limiting Myles to 2 moves makes sense in that context. Trying to do too much and ending up on his rump wasn't really a concern.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The lack of the play caller and the line coach being on the same page goes way back into the Hue Administration . The lack of quality will effect your TE play over and over again. Trying to get them out in a pass pattern when you need the extra blocker is how you rune a QB.
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I despise separated men so much. 
