x

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#1710507 - 12/23/19 08:40 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8973
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Wife got me the PSVR for Christmas, she also got me Jedi Fallen Order (which looks amazing)

The VR came with 5 games, including RE7, Everybody's Golf (i have the regular version, it's a great golf game), Skyrim, and 2 other games kinda designed for VR.

I played some demos last night, this is actually cooler than I thought it would be. I did the soccer heading game which was a lot of fun

I don't even know when I am going to start Fallen Order but I can't wait, I have been watching Twitch people play all week, not staying on too long though so I avoid spoilers
Yes, VR was is pretty awesome as far as how far the tech has come.

I sold mine, simply because there just were not that many good games, and I got tired of the all the cords and extra boxes.

I hoping the PS5 will have a wireless VR.

Top
#1710962 - 12/25/19 11:34 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
yeah that's my only gripe is that all the wires ugly up my tv area

i cannot wait to start Fallen Order!

Top
#1713354 - 12/30/19 03:50 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
oobernoober Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 6298
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm completely tired of Destiny and The Division. I have a couple games that I need to finish up. One of those is Witcher 3... and for some reason I'm really looking forward to sinking a bunch of time into that. I don't remember why I put that game down.
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1713377 - 12/30/19 04:19 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: oobernoober]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
I'm completely tired of Destiny and The Division. I have a couple games that I need to finish up. One of those is Witcher 3... and for some reason I'm really looking forward to sinking a bunch of time into that. I don't remember why I put that game down.


Itís one of the best games I have ever played but man it is long. Like even the story arc is long, but aside from that you wanna do all the side stuff because that stuff is fun. I deleted the install but I have my save file and I will be jumping in again at some point.

I beat God of War. Fun game but the story part is really short. Enjoyable game tho.

Top
#1713385 - 12/30/19 04:23 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
oobernoober Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 6298
Loc: San Diego, CA
I really want to give Projekt Red my money. I'm definitely grabbing Cyberpunk 2077 when it comes out.
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1713393 - 12/30/19 04:27 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8973
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
yeah that's my only gripe is that all the wires ugly up my tv area

i cannot wait to start Fallen Order!
I played about an hour so far, I am underwhelmed.

Top
#1713506 - 12/30/19 07:25 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Squires Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3542
Flight simulator returns in 2020. Looks interesting as it's supposed to interface with Bing maps to pull satelite data for the location you are flying in, allowing you to fly anywhere in the world. Downside is this means you always need an internet connection to play the game. There was a mention of an offline mode, but not sure how it will work. There is also supposed to be able to get real time weather conditions. I'm definitely going to go fly into a hurricane. smile

On another note, I ended up with $75 of steam gift cards for Christmas. Now I need to figure out what to buy.
_________________________
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Top
#1716739 - 01/05/20 12:09 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Squires]
SuperBrown Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 3396
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Thanks for that update.

Top
#1717725 - 01/07/20 08:41 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8973
PS5 - anyone know when pre orders may come about?

Getting excited! Although I hear the new Xbox might be sick!


Edited by willitevachange (01/07/20 08:41 AM)

Top
#1717929 - 01/07/20 12:20 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Squires]
ExclDawg Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 14251
Originally Posted By: Squires
Flight simulator returns in 2020. Looks interesting as it's supposed to interface with Bing maps to pull satelite data for the location you are flying in, allowing you to fly anywhere in the world. Downside is this means you always need an internet connection to play the game. There was a mention of an offline mode, but not sure how it will work. There is also supposed to be able to get real time weather conditions. I'm definitely going to go fly into a hurricane. smile

On another note, I ended up with $75 of steam gift cards for Christmas. Now I need to figure out what to buy.


I've watched some videos and stuff on this. It looks amazing. The "online" mode is meant for the more immersive experience, where it will take Bing maps and actively convert buildings into 3D structures as you fly. The offline mode would behave more like current flight sims where common structures are already rendered, but everything else is just sort of "flat textures". The game looks amazing though!

Top
#1718179 - 01/08/20 12:33 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Frenchy Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: Galloway, Ohio
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
PS5 - anyone know when pre orders may come about?

Getting excited! Although I hear the new Xbox might be sick!


Iím a part time gamer, but my 14yo daughter is a full time gamer, last week she came up to me and said dad, we dont need to buy that dog we were talking about, and my 2 xboxís I have we can trade them in for the new xbox. She was so excited, she said about a 1000 words in like 1 minute, lol.

Top
#1740020 - 03/10/20 12:11 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8973
YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!

This might be the biggest gaming news in decades!!!!!!

NFL2K COMING SOON!!!!!

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2020.../7181583846694/

EDIT TO ADD:

My excitement was short lived. They are not making "simulation" type games. Sounds like they will only make NFL Blitz type arcade games. SMH. Still stuck with Madden.


Edited by willitevachange (03/10/20 12:17 PM)

Top
#1744828 - 03/20/20 06:25 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Dawgs4Life Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 52210
Loc: Edinboro, PA
Thatís a bummer to me as well ... I wasnít a fan of NFL Blitz. I prefer more realistic type sports games.
_________________________
"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

Top
#1745498 - 03/22/20 02:30 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Psydeffect Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 4847
Loc: Middletown, Ohio
Does anyone play The Division 2 on PC? I bought on sale a couple weeks ago but I hardly play games anymore and need some people to game with on it.

I'm so bored I'm about to dust off the old PC and play again.

psydeffect is my uplay user name as well.

Top
#1746625 - 03/25/20 10:43 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
busted out an old tiger woods game, man i wish they would reboot the series. Golf games are so awesome

Top
#1747080 - 03/27/20 04:04 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
willitevachange Offline
Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/07/17
Posts: 8973
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.

Top
#1747236 - 03/28/20 12:10 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.

Top
#1749667 - 04/05/20 11:58 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Squires Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3542
FF7 remake releases this week. Since it was PS4 exclusive, I never paid attention to it. Then this past week, due to being stuck at home, I considered buying a PS4 just for this game. Then after looking into it, I saw they are only releasing part of the story. I'll pass for now.
_________________________
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Top
#1750352 - 04/07/20 08:57 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Squires]
cle23 Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 1711
Loc: Strasburg, OH
Originally Posted By: Squires
FF7 remake releases this week. Since it was PS4 exclusive, I never paid attention to it. Then this past week, due to being stuck at home, I considered buying a PS4 just for this game. Then after looking into it, I saw they are only releasing part of the story. I'll pass for now.


They are only releasing party of the story, but expanding the first 8 hours or so to roughly 40 hours with new and expanded story.

It's not ideal, but the game is 100GB as is now. To release it as 1, it would be a 500-600GB game.

Top
#1750650 - 04/08/20 06:44 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: cle23]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
yeah, you might be better off buying a ps classic, that has the regular game, and i think you get the whole thing.

Top
#1750845 - 04/09/20 01:48 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: cle23]
PrplPplEater Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 23756
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I would love to see them remake the original (or the second one, depending on how fanatical you are about the origins), but with a modern game engine; perhaps something like what is used for Tom Clancy's Division 2.


Oh, and release it for the PC.... ain't nobody got time for that console stuff these days
_________________________
Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.


Top
#1751323 - 04/10/20 09:51 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Frenchy Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: Galloway, Ohio
Been playing a new RPG, Bless Unleashed. Itís a fun game, daughter has had to help me quite a bit.

Top
#1752899 - 04/16/20 10:56 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
brownsfan2119 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3639
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.



Check out The Golf Club 2019. Its a little more sim than tiger woods, there is a learning curve in the beginning because it is not as forgiving as Tiger but once it clicks its really good. If you have PS Now its on there also.
_________________________
Eat it Phil...

Top
#1753333 - 04/17/20 07:53 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: brownsfan2119]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.



Check out The Golf Club 2019. Its a little more sim than tiger woods, there is a learning curve in the beginning because it is not as forgiving as Tiger but once it clicks its really good. If you have PS Now its on there also.


are there a lot of courses? i might have to grab that. i don't mind a true sim either.is 2019 the best version?

i bought a ps store gift card the other day and basically got myself 5 games for the price of 1 brand new one. I got Days Gone for 20 bucks, and am loving the hell out of it. apparently it was meh when it came out, but the developers have improved it a bunch since the release.

I also got the GTA trilogy for 17, and NHL 20 for 23 bucks. Not a bad score. The digital content is cool too because you can switch without having to mess with discs. pretty nice. I was still mostly a disc guy but i figured why have anything shipped or go to any stores


Top
#1754376 - 04/21/20 03:51 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Spergon FTWynn]
brownsfan2119 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3639
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.



Check out The Golf Club 2019. Its a little more sim than tiger woods, there is a learning curve in the beginning because it is not as forgiving as Tiger but once it clicks its really good. If you have PS Now its on there also.


are there a lot of courses? i might have to grab that. i don't mind a true sim either.is 2019 the best version?

i bought a ps store gift card the other day and basically got myself 5 games for the price of 1 brand new one. I got Days Gone for 20 bucks, and am loving the hell out of it. apparently it was meh when it came out, but the developers have improved it a bunch since the release.

I also got the GTA trilogy for 17, and NHL 20 for 23 bucks. Not a bad score. The digital content is cool too because you can switch without having to mess with discs. pretty nice. I was still mostly a disc guy but i figured why have anything shipped or go to any stores



Its officially licensed by the PGA Tour but I think there are only like 6 real courses but there is a course maker and people make some extremely lifelike courses.

2019 is the best version, they incorporated a career mode with rivals, they have online societies and do your own seasons, I actually like it better than the Tiger games because its more realistic.

Not sure what the price is but you can get a year of PS Now for $60 and its on there. Also on PS Now is Spiderman & Control, so you get a lot for $60.
_________________________
Eat it Phil...

Top
#1757969 - 04/25/20 08:10 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
TTTDawg Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 1635
Loc: Deplorableville
Great thread!!!

However, I'm still trying to master the original video game PONG.

_________________________
On the other hand, you have different fingers.

Top
#1757975 - 04/25/20 08:30 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: TTTDawg]
archbolddawg Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 26915
I, and my cousin, spent hours and hours playing that at my grandma and grandpas house.

And a few years later, mom and dad bought an Atari for our house. Played Space Invaders and Missile 'something' - I don't remember the name of it exactly. Ah, memories

Top
#1758259 - 04/26/20 06:07 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Frenchy Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: Galloway, Ohio
Anyone want to play a game of madden 20 on xbox tonight, let me know. User name is beerfrenchy

Top
#1761706 - 05/09/20 10:59 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Squires Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3542
jc

Command & Conquer and Command & Conquer red alert remastered is being released in June.
_________________________
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Top
#1761779 - 05/09/20 03:54 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: Squires]
RocketOptimist Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 8671
My wife and I have been saving up some money for this...



It comes on Monday. We figured if we're here in Alaska all summer, we might as well get lost in some virtual worlds.

I really enjoyed my PSVR, but it's incredibly limited compared to the dedicated PC headsets.

Top
#1762286 - 05/12/20 01:14 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: RocketOptimist]
RocketOptimist Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 8671
If you like PSVR and have a great computer, dive in with an Oculus Rift S or Valve Index. You'll love it.

Went on vacation tonight...


Top
#1762422 - 05/12/20 03:27 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: brownsfan2119]
brownsfan2119 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3639
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.



Check out The Golf Club 2019. Its a little more sim than tiger woods, there is a learning curve in the beginning because it is not as forgiving as Tiger but once it clicks its really good. If you have PS Now its on there also.


are there a lot of courses? i might have to grab that. i don't mind a true sim either.is 2019 the best version?

i bought a ps store gift card the other day and basically got myself 5 games for the price of 1 brand new one. I got Days Gone for 20 bucks, and am loving the hell out of it. apparently it was meh when it came out, but the developers have improved it a bunch since the release.

I also got the GTA trilogy for 17, and NHL 20 for 23 bucks. Not a bad score. The digital content is cool too because you can switch without having to mess with discs. pretty nice. I was still mostly a disc guy but i figured why have anything shipped or go to any stores



Its officially licensed by the PGA Tour but I think there are only like 6 real courses but there is a course maker and people make some extremely lifelike courses.

2019 is the best version, they incorporated a career mode with rivals, they have online societies and do your own seasons, I actually like it better than the Tiger games because its more realistic.

Not sure what the price is but you can get a year of PS Now for $60 and its on there. Also on PS Now is Spiderman & Control, so you get a lot for $60.


Looks they are releasing a new game soon, PGA Tour 2K21, details coming on the 14th.
_________________________
Eat it Phil...

Top
#1763119 - 05/15/20 08:23 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
RocketOptimist Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 8671
PC VR Thoguts:

Skyrim is a blast. The combat is awesome as you literally swing your sword.

Beat Saber is a great at home VR workout.

Anyone else playing at home VR?

Top
#1764738 - 05/23/20 02:05 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: brownsfan2119]
Spergon FTWynn Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 16822
Loc: 16 spots ahead of Tom Brady
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: brownsfan2119
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
They made the Rory one a few years ago. I dont recall how successful it was, I enjoyed it.


haven't tried it, but the tiger one from 2013 is fun. Playing Augusta is so awesome.



Check out The Golf Club 2019. Its a little more sim than tiger woods, there is a learning curve in the beginning because it is not as forgiving as Tiger but once it clicks its really good. If you have PS Now its on there also.


are there a lot of courses? i might have to grab that. i don't mind a true sim either.is 2019 the best version?

i bought a ps store gift card the other day and basically got myself 5 games for the price of 1 brand new one. I got Days Gone for 20 bucks, and am loving the hell out of it. apparently it was meh when it came out, but the developers have improved it a bunch since the release.

I also got the GTA trilogy for 17, and NHL 20 for 23 bucks. Not a bad score. The digital content is cool too because you can switch without having to mess with discs. pretty nice. I was still mostly a disc guy but i figured why have anything shipped or go to any stores



Its officially licensed by the PGA Tour but I think there are only like 6 real courses but there is a course maker and people make some extremely lifelike courses.

2019 is the best version, they incorporated a career mode with rivals, they have online societies and do your own seasons, I actually like it better than the Tiger games because its more realistic.

Not sure what the price is but you can get a year of PS Now for $60 and its on there. Also on PS Now is Spiderman & Control, so you get a lot for $60.


Looks they are releasing a new game soon, PGA Tour 2K21, details coming on the 14th.


that is awesome, i hope they don't make it all microtransactions like the nba 2k series has recently.

aug release though, i will definitely keep an eye on it

Top
#1766169 - 05/29/20 11:57 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: RocketOptimist]
PrplPplEater Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 23756
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist


It comes on Monday. We figured if we're here in Alaska all summer, we might as well get lost in some virtual worlds.


Dude, you're in Alaska... go get lost in the REAL world! There are so many amazing things to see and do there. A good friend of mine lives in Soldotna and is constantly posting pics of trips to Valdez, flying up onto glaciers (a friend of his is a bush pilot), etc... Sooooo many once-in-a-lifetime kinda things for someone that is there for a short while (less than a few years).
_________________________
Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.


Top
#1766261 - 05/29/20 04:15 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: PrplPplEater]
RocketOptimist Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 8671
We're kicking around the idea of a trip into the road system.

Yet we have the concern of getting caught in a potential covid surge in Alaska, buying a house with money we've saved, summer grad classes, potential home renovations, painting a house and a few other things occurring where we live that are preventing more Alaska exploration this summer. We try to keep balance in everything we do.

My first six years in village included tons of exploration along the coast enjoying the beauty (as you probably saw in my picture posts), and now we're a bit further in-land. I would go out fishing in the Bering Sea and tag along for bird hunting those years, too.

We've been getting out a lot walking at least five miles a day, but the road system trip is on the back burner with things that have popped up due to Staycation 2020.

Top
#1766266 - 05/29/20 04:26 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: RocketOptimist]
archbolddawg Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 26915
Alaska has a population of right around 734,000 people. Alaska has 430 reported cases. Go on the road trip.

Top
#1766294 - 05/29/20 08:44 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: archbolddawg]
RocketOptimist Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 8671
I understand.

There's also the history of disease and viruses wiping out Alaska Native people. I'm going to do what's safe to protect myself and my community. Going to consult some friends in the medical field in a month to assess what is safe for us and the people I serve.

Top
#1766738 - 06/01/20 09:44 AM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: RocketOptimist]
oobernoober Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 6298
Loc: San Diego, CA
I imagine the awesomeness that is Alaska (I'm being sincere, not sarcastic) would kinda wear off after a while, no?

Honest question.
_________________________
Somebody think of something
-ThrowLong

Top
#1771328 - 06/23/20 07:20 PM Re: The Gaming Thread, Part IV [Re: willitevachange]
Squires Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 3542
jc

Episode 1 racer released for PS4 and Switch today.
_________________________
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >