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#1764150 - 05/21/20 11:47 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: waterdawg]
mac Offline

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Quote:
In Joe's defense, His DC's schemes had him totally out of position




water...good point...I don't know how many defensive schemes Joe played in under how many DCs.

The same issue that affected every other player also affected Schobert's play as he and all the players on the team attempted to play as each coach and scheme called for.

The Browns "ownership and upper management" need to begin to make commitments to the coaches and the players by transitioning to a "long term" plan. Haslam must keep his fingers off the team and allow this group of coaches and management to do the job that they were hired to do..teach players and build those players into a successful team.

Can't build a franchise into a winner if the franchise is in a state of constant change and turmoil driven by an owner who acts like a child when things don't go well...fire the management and all coaches...and start over again.

Looking at the successful franchises, you see one consistent factor that aides in a franchises long term success...KEEP THE CORE GROUP OF COACHES AND MANAGEMENT TOGETHER, REGARDLESS OF THE RECORD YEAR TO YEAR.

If the Steelers have a down year, the Rooneys do not fire the head coach and start over again. They might make some changes but for the most part, they just keep adding talent, knowing the coaching staff will develop the talent and build a stronger team to compete for a Championship next season.

IMO, football players perform at their best when there is "stability" and few changes.

The Browns ownership has one job to focus on...DO NO HARM TO STEFANSKI AND BERRY'S FOOTBALL TEAM!



Edited by mac (05/21/20 11:51 AM)
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#1764171 - 05/21/20 12:30 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: DiamDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I think the realistic me would agree with u and bone ...

I do have one question ... if joe is so good in coverage why do we always struggle covering tes ... please educate me on that one as Im sure its something Im making to simple ...

I also agree with tabber and think we could see big things from Mack ... the realistic me firmly believes that ... thumbsup


That is a fair question. I think Cle touched on it. We played our LBers in zone coverage most of the time. That is not unusual. If you go back to the conversations we had about coverages, you will not that is typical for LBers, even in coverages where you have your corners playing man. Furthermore, we have played a ton of zone under our DCs. That's not a bad thing or unusual.

Another thing is that our SS's have been terrible in coverage over the years. TJ Ward, Peppers, what was that one dude's name...Kindred or something like that. They all sucked. Murray is a good cover guy, but he often covered the slot receiver and the outside/short zone. I never got a feel on Burnett, so I can talk about him.

I know you don't like PFF, but Joe ranked number one against YAC. That tells you that he was right where he should have been.

As an aside........I am not jumping up and down and screaming about not keeping him. There just isn't much too talk about right now and this thread is one where we are actually talking football instead of that other crap.

Different opinions are a good thing. We can all learn a little.
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#1764279 - 05/21/20 06:07 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Versatile Dog]
Bard Dawg Offline

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Well, he did a bunch for us, and I was sorry to see him leave. I thought he covered well, and Vers has it nailed. Just like other guys leaving, it's that old lyric, "you really don't know what you've lost till it's gone." How much we lost, how solid our judgment was, and his real worth can only be known in hindsight. Hopefully, there will be some stepping up and shoe-filling.
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#1764305 - 05/21/20 07:57 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: superbowldogg]
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Browns LB B.J. Goodson: "For Us To Be The Best Linebacker Corp Across The League. That Is My Job"

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/bj-goodson-conference-call

Thursday, new Cleveland Browns linebacker B.J. Goodson had a conference call with the local media from South Carolina, where he is currently training. After playing with the Green Bay Packers and New York Giants, it was largely trying to figure out who he is.

After the Browns let Joe Schobert walk in free agency and opted to release Chris Kirksey, Goodson has been their only unrestricted free agent signing to this point. They drafted Jacob Phillips in the third round of the NFL Draft out of LSU, signed a couple of undrafted free agents, but Goodson was the only player they added with experience starting games in the NFL.

To get these guys better, including myself, for us to be the best linebacker core across the league. That is my job, and that is why they brought me here. I am looking forward to that. I am up for the challenge.

Getting into the leadership aspect further, later in the call.

It is. As a middle linebacker and especially as long as I have been playing, that leadership role is something that you just inherit. It is something that I am definitely looking forward to being an addition there for those guys.

When he was asked about his determination to start week one, he offered a message that the team would probably like the rest of the linebacker room to adopt.

To be honest, I understand that [question], but I do not even look at it like that. I take things a day at a time. Just laying one brick as perfectly as possible as I can, and whatever happens, happens. I have tremendous, tremendous, tremendous not to sound arrogant or anything faith in my game. That is not a knock on anyone, as well. They are all great people. We have a great room. We get to meet every day for about four or five days a week. It is pretty good. We have a great room.

Seemingly unwilling to divulge anything, as if it might be out of turn, when he was asked if he knew he was competing against, Goodson kept it very general.

I do, but as far as competition, I compete with myself. That is my biggest opponent. I compete with myself every single day. I know that sounds kind of clich and guys use that and say that a lot. The way that I visualize the game mentally and the way that I prepare for the game mentally, I go at myself a lot and dig into myself a lot.

When asked if the pandemic and being limited to a virtual program would hurt their ability to be ready for the season, Goodson was confident they would be ready.

Not at all. Not at all. We meet every single day and (defensive coordinator) Joe (Woods) and (Head) Coach (Kevin Stefanski), those guys, they do an awesome job of prepping us and quizzing us and doing everything in their power and will that they can do. We are doing a lot of other things that a lot of other teams are not doing. I commend those guys on that and setting that standard.

Goodson also addressed his strength as a run defender while making it clear he believes he can do more.

I kind of wanted to say something about that, as well, but not to really dig into it. Yes, I am great at that, but as far as the defense that we are in now, I feel like it is the shoulder-and-up side of my game a little bit more, as well. As far as covering and stuff, I feel very confident in fulfilling those roles, as well.
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#1764313 - 05/21/20 08:22 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: superbowldogg]
GratefulDawg Offline

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B.J. Goodson ready to 'get these guys better' as eldest member of Browns linebackers
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/b-j...owns-linebacker

B.J. Goodson knew exactly what he was signing up for when he decided to join the Browns on a one-year deal in March.

Goodson, a four-year veteran, obviously would receive a chance to start with Cleveland and create an opportunity for a longer stay with the Browns beyond 2020.

He was also cognizant that, at age 26, he'll be the oldest and most experienced linebacker the Browns have on their roster.

That means he needs to be a mentor, regardless of the amount of playing time he'll receive.

"To get these guys better, including myself," Goodson said Thursday in a Zoom call with local reporters. It was a quick answer, too. Goodson didn't hesitate to put his mentorship role first when he was asked about his goals for next season.

"It's for us to be the best linebacking core across the league," he said. "That's my job, and that's why they brought me here. I'm looking forward to that and the talent."

The Browns linebackers have plenty of work to do if they want to attain that goal, but there's no shortage of promise. The group also includes 2019 draft picks Mack Wilson and Sione Takitaki and Jacob Phillips, a 2020 third-round pick. Each of them have a shot to be a Week 1 starter, but the youth is evident the oldest player of the trio is Takitaki, and he's only 24.

Rounding out the group is Tae Davis, Montrel Meander, Willie Harvey and Jermaine Grace. Davis and Grace have a combined 51 games of experience, while Meander and Harvey have two games, both from Harvey last season.
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#1764375 - 05/22/20 08:36 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: GratefulDawg]
mac Offline

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Signing Goodson gives the Browns depth and experience while giving Goodson a chance to establish his value, signed by the Browns on a one year, "show me" contract.

Goodson is not a finished product and imo, he will improve with good coaching from LB coach, Jason Tarver. Goodson is listed on the depth chart behind Sione Takitaki. It appears that Goodson is not being "given" anything and will have to work to move up the depth chart.

Competition is a great motivator...

A quick look at video of Goodson, some things I noticed..
...good speed
...diagnoses plays quickly
...gets off of blocks quickly

Hopefully the Browns will improve upon their ability to stop the run.
rank 26...total yards p/g 361
rank 30...rushing yds p/g 144
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#1764392 - 05/22/20 09:00 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: GratefulDawg]
bonefish Offline

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I don't know what to expect from Goodson.

I don't watch every game played. Not familiar with his game. All I know is that he was signed to a one year contract.

My guess is Wilson and Goodson will start. But I am not sure about that.

The defense in general seems to have more question marks as far as what to expect.

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#1764396 - 05/22/20 09:04 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: bonefish]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Quote:

I don't know what to expect from Goodson.


Not much. This is the time of year when fluff articles are the norm.
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#1764426 - 05/22/20 10:37 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: mac]
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Hey Mac can you post a copy/link to where you found the depth chart?
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#1764449 - 05/22/20 11:56 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: FL_Dawg]
dawg66 Online   content

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Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
Hey Mac can you post a copy/link to where you found the depth chart?



Go here and you can look at every team's depth chart;
https://www.ourlads.com
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#1764475 - 05/22/20 12:47 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Versatile Dog]
bonefish Offline

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thx.

When a free agent gets a one year deal it's not like a vote of confidence.

The LB position group looks on paper at this point in time very suspect.

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#1764511 - 05/22/20 02:21 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: bonefish]
DiamDawg Offline

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Well thank the good lord the games not played on paper ... naughtydevil
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#1764518 - 05/22/20 02:55 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: FL_Dawg]
mac Offline

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Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
Hey Mac can you post a copy/link to where you found the depth chart?


FL...exactly what 66 posted, OURLADS...

Here's the link to the Browns depth chart...

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/CLE

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#1764544 - 05/22/20 04:22 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: DiamDawg]
bonefish Offline

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True. Maybe someone will be a surprise.


Maybe Taki will show something. I like Wilson. Thought he had a good rookie year. He got thrown in there and held his own. He made mistakes but gave good effort and made some plays. He gained good experience and I expect him to make that big leap in his second year. Goodson? Hell Woods?

I think the secondary will be solid. Delpit is a rookie but there room to be optimistic with him.

Karl Joseph maybe a surprise. I liked him coming out of college.

The big negative to be overcome is preparation. This virus issue is going to be tough on the teams with regime change.
It is hard enough to implement new systems and language under normal conditions. Coaches and players don't even know each other. Freddie had some experience with the team and still could not put the team together.

The Steelers and Ravens are business as usual. That is a big advantage. We will have our hands full playing them.

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#1764560 - 05/22/20 07:07 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: cle23]
PrplPplEater Offline

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Originally Posted By: cle23
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
SUCK!

Nice job letting Joe and Kirksey walk.

Business as usual for this joke of a franchise.


I am upset they let Schobert go. He was very good, especially in coverage.

That said, does anyone actually think Kirksey will be missed? No way was he worth $7 million when he can't stay healthy, and he was possibly above average at best. He wasn't remotely close to even Schobert, so I have no issues with him being gone.


We have a few LBers that should give comparable, or close to it, performance... perhaps improved as we focus more on stopping the run. Additionally, both Scho and Kirksey should bring us compensatory picks.

It's Win-Win for us.
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#1764563 - 05/22/20 07:24 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PrplPplEater]
Versatile Dog Offline

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A win-win. LOL
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#1764573 - 05/22/20 08:08 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PrplPplEater]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: cle23
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
SUCK!

Nice job letting Joe and Kirksey walk.

Business as usual for this joke of a franchise.


I am upset they let Schobert go. He was very good, especially in coverage.

That said, does anyone actually think Kirksey will be missed? No way was he worth $7 million when he can't stay healthy, and he was possibly above average at best. He wasn't remotely close to even Schobert, so I have no issues with him being gone.


We have a few LBers that should give comparable, or close to it, performance... perhaps improved as we focus more on stopping the run. Additionally, both Scho and Kirksey should bring us compensatory picks.

It's Win-Win for us.


Kirksey was released so we 100% will not get a comp pick for him. We signed Jack Conklin and Austin Hooper so they easily cancel out Schobert's potential comp pick, so no comp pick for him.

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#1764574 - 05/22/20 08:09 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: cfrs15]
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I'm fairly certain that the Browns will not get any comp picks. I do think he was joking, though.
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#1764588 - 05/22/20 09:48 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: cfrs15]
PrplPplEater Offline

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I didn't realize we released Kirksey. I thought he just left as a FA.

As for Sho, I thought position group mattered for the signing of offsets, so I would not think Conklin matters at all.
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Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.


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#1764591 - 05/22/20 10:04 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PrplPplEater]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I thought you were joking around since you said that the new guys might be better than Joe. Apparently not, but I am pretty sure that we don't have any Comp picks.

Here are a couple of links:

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...ith-day-2-trade

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-...ap3000001112252
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#1764606 - 05/22/20 10:38 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PrplPplEater]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
I didn't realize we released Kirksey. I thought he just left as a FA.

As for Sho, I thought position group mattered for the signing of offsets, so I would not think Conklin matters at all.


Position group does not matter with comp picks. Its all about the contracts.

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#1764616 - 05/22/20 10:56 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: superbowldogg]
SuperBrown Offline

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Browns Linebackers:


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#1764663 - 05/23/20 07:38 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: SuperBrown]
mac Offline

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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Browns Linebackers:




super...this image applies to the entire Browns franchise...
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#1764686 - 05/23/20 09:41 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: cfrs15]
PrplPplEater Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
I didn't realize we released Kirksey. I thought he just left as a FA.

As for Sho, I thought position group mattered for the signing of offsets, so I would not think Conklin matters at all.


Position group does not matter with comp picks. Its all about the contracts.


I know it is about contracts, but I thought the new contract had to be a replacement player for the one you lost in Free Agency. e.g. Conklin would not be a replacement for Scho.
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Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.


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#1764687 - 05/23/20 09:43 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Versatile Dog]
PrplPplEater Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
since you said that the new guys might be better than Joe.


No, I did not say that.
Go read it again. Slowly. Now, read it again. Let it gestate and settle.
Now think about what you read. Read it once more for good measure.
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Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.


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#1764702 - 05/23/20 11:04 AM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: mac]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Browns Linebackers:




super...this image applies to the entire Browns franchise...
especially GM, Coach, QB .. you know, only the important positions lol
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1764718 - 05/23/20 12:45 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PrplPplEater]
Versatile Dog Offline

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You're welcome for the links.
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#1764720 - 05/23/20 12:49 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
Rishuz Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Browns Linebackers:




super...this image applies to the entire Browns franchise...
especially GM, Coach, QB .. you know, only the important positions lol


And this fan base, including you, is going to try and run Baker out of town if he has even an average year this year. I'm telling you guys that the three year rule might not apply to Baker (partly because of him and partly because of his situation - 4 coaches in 3 years). It may take him to year 4 or 5, but if he walks, I think the franchise will regret it.

As long as he is showing flashes, and if you're objective about last year he did have some flashes, this franchise needs to ride it out with him.

QBs do not grow on trees. There are no quick fixes. Build and develop him.

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#1764722 - 05/23/20 12:54 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Rishuz]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Browns Linebackers:




super...this image applies to the entire Browns franchise...
especially GM, Coach, QB .. you know, only the important positions lol


And this fan base, including you, is going to try and run Baker out of town if he has even an average year this year. I'm telling you guys that the three year rule might not apply to Baker (partly because of him and partly because of his situation - 4 coaches in 3 years). It may take him to year 4 or 5, but if he walks, I think the franchise will regret it.

As long as he is showing flashes, and if you're objective about last year he did have some flashes, this franchise needs to ride it out with him.

QBs do not grow on trees. There are no quick fixes. Build and develop him.
dude, Rish ... including me?! When have I ever called for Bakers head? Maybe youre mistaking me for someone else. In fact, Ive never called for anybody to be fired with one exception: Freddie Kitchens.

Now, I do admit to being as frustrated and pessimistic ... but I think thats justified with this franchise.

Im not someone who calls for guys jobs ... just a personal perspective as a coach/former player
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1764725 - 05/23/20 12:58 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
PitDAWG Offline

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Some people are a little more touchy than others and tend to jump to unsubstantiated conclusions. It happens all the time on here.
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#1764731 - 05/23/20 01:19 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Dawgs4Life]
Rishuz Offline

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It's going to happen D4L. Unless Baker plays very well. And you'll be out in front leading the charge. You are already on record as saying something to the effect that "this is a make or break year for Baker". Not sure if those were the exact words. I couldn't disagree more.

What I'm trying to warn you and others is that if Baker has an average year that it's not the end of the world. I was extremely critical of Baker this past year, but I've gone back and watched almost every game from the last 2 years, and I think Baker is a player that will be very good - it just might not be this year.

There are only two reasons I can think of that may change that outlook. One - just utter collapse, just terrible play, demonstrating that he's not developing or learning. Two - being in a position to draft Lawrence. IMO, those would be the only two reasons to move on from Baker.

The fans will not tolerate less than HOF play, however. The media will not tolerate less than HOF play, however. If that's the case maybe Baker will engineer his way out of town. But we finally have a player with the drive and ability to play the position. Now put him in a stable environment and build and develop him. I'm hoping we can do that for once.

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#1764741 - 05/23/20 02:27 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Rishuz]
SuperBrown Offline

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I'm all in on Baker.

I pray this new coaching staff can maximize his strengths.

It appears they are doing all they can through free agency and the draft to do this.

Austin Cooper and the TE personnel should really help along with Conklin and Wills.

Pulling for Baker to get back to his 2018 form.

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#1764742 - 05/23/20 02:49 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Some people are a little more touchy than others and tend to jump to unsubstantiated conclusions. It happens all the time on here.


rofl

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#1764747 - 05/23/20 03:16 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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You may find it funny. However when you point out that Bakers passes sailed high a lot and his accuracy wasn't as good in 2019 as it was in 2918, suddenly people claim you hate Baker.

But being real isn't something I expect from many.
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Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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#1764748 - 05/23/20 03:18 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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rofl rofl

Stop it man...my sides are busting.

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#1764750 - 05/23/20 03:19 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Self inflicted wounds.
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Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

#gmstrong

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#1764777 - 05/23/20 06:29 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: Rishuz]
DiamDawg Offline

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Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 14855
Give it up dawg ... he needs to show IMPROVEMENT ... why is that asking to much? Dude threw a ton of picks last year and made bad decisions regularly ... he needs to improve on that ...


If hes close to the same in week 17 as he was in week 1 this year ...unless this years week 1 was a marked improvement over last year they best start exploring other options IF they present themselves ...

Do u get rid of him or give up on him .. ummm no .... do u simply write it off to 3 systems in 3 years ... HELL NO ...

And we need more than FLASHING this year ... we need to see the rookie year Bake where he seemed to get better each week and not regressing each week ...
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FREDDIE is GETTING READY!!!!!!

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#1764778 - 05/23/20 06:31 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: WSU Willie]
DiamDawg Offline

Legend

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 14855
Heres living proof of that dawg ....

Do u think i hate Bake? .. IF u pay attention to my posts youd know I dont .... yet read some of your fellow sashiettes posts and they paint me as a hater ....

*L* all u want at Pit but Im living proof hes right ...
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FREDDIE is GETTING READY!!!!!!

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#1764797 - 05/23/20 09:56 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: PitDAWG]
bbrowns32 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 6354
Loc: Motown area
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

But being real isn't something I expect from many.


Expectations and subsequent results are almost always higher or lower, but seldom equal...
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates

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#1764798 - 05/23/20 10:40 PM Re: Browns Linebackers [Re: DiamDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 45584
No one wants Baker to fail. Maybe KOB and rasta are against him, but most of us want him to succeed. Rish is a trouble-maker who plays stupid personality games. Better off ignoring the likes of him.
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"You can fool some people sometimes but you can't fool all the people all the time."~~Bob Marley/Peter Tosh

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