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#1792716 - 09/15/20 08:07 PM Re: Odell [Re: cfrs15]
mgh888 Online   content

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Depends if Bill O'Brien reset the trade value for 'elite' WR's when he traded Hopkins for a bag of chips and a coke.
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#1792744 - 09/15/20 09:53 PM Re: Odell [Re: mgh888]
tastybrownies Offline

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The Broncos gave us Hillis that one time for a ham sandwich, remember? ooo
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#1792816 - 09/16/20 12:07 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
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I'm not happy with OBJ but I don't want him traded. I want him to play to his potential... smh
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#1792828 - 09/16/20 05:42 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
rastanplan Offline

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Originally Posted By: bonefish

Your opinion is yours alone.

Going to a team that has not won a game is not a soft landing.


To say Baker does not have arm talent? Well I don't think that those who make a living in football would agree.

So two seasons and one game against the Ravens and it is all over for Baker.

Don't apply for a GM position any time soon.


If Baker had NFL arm talent we would never have been a walk on college QB. Baker needs a stable platform to throw accurately, which is not arm talent, arm talent is when a QB can make the throws from unstable platforms,specially when on the move. Baker has always been highly inaccurate outside of the pocket.

He was drafted because he was supposed to be clutch,a winner with superior work ethics... turns out he is a choker that can't even keep his shape nor learn where is offense is supposed to line up.

Its quite evident that he has lost the team, he commands little respect, because we all can see who is Baker now, and he is not Drew Brees nor Russel Wilson.

Browns can go to the playoffs with an average QB this season, we could have done it last year if they benched Baker,please don't throw this away just because we have a failed pick... we are used to failed picks, its not a big deal for us, going to the playoffs is.


Edited by rastanplan (09/16/20 05:47 AM)

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#1792830 - 09/16/20 06:15 AM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
mac Offline

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rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat
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#1792832 - 09/16/20 07:10 AM Re: Odell [Re: mac]
rastanplan Offline

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Originally Posted By: mac
rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat


After all this years and so many busts and fails in our team, its strange that some fans still have such high attachment to players.

I always hope our players and staff will pan out and excel, but the truth is that most don't, so we should stop picking sides and see this has a normal process.

Right now I and many feel that Baker is not helping the team, the same can be said for OBJ, so lets try to reduce the drama and if any player has to be benched or cut, so be it.

Just start Keenun and name Landry the #1 receiver and lets see what happens, its not like things can get any worst.

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#1792837 - 09/16/20 07:54 AM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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j/c:

The problem with trading Odell is, as of right now, his value has never been lower. The situation so far has not worked out through 17 games and he has been injured for three consecutive seasons. Unless the situation is absolutely untenable, I don't think the Browns' preference is to unload OBJ and not get anywhere near the value they would hope if they were truly ready to move on.
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#1792840 - 09/16/20 08:10 AM Re: Odell [Re: MemphisBrownie]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
j/c:

The problem with trading Odell is, as of right now, his value has never been lower. The situation so far has not worked out through 17 games and he has been injured for three consecutive seasons. Unless the situation is absolutely untenable, I don't think the Browns' preference is to unload OBJ and not get anywhere near the value they would hope if they were truly ready to move on.


This right here. I think the 6th rounder comment was hyperbole, but I agree with the overall point. You don't cut loose talent like that for pennies on the dollar, especially after week 1. I'm tired of the drama as well, but the right move is to march on and continue to improve and get ALL of the pieces of this offense working. Now if a team wants to give up a 1st rounder for him, I sit up in my seat. If we can recover what we gave to get him, I start thinking trade. I don't see that happening.
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#1792857 - 09/16/20 09:19 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
Versatile Dog Offline

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j/c:

A few things.

--Baker does have arm talent. In fact, I think he has a plus arm. His issues are not due to lack of arm strength.

--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.
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#1792861 - 09/16/20 09:28 AM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
OBJ caught for 1000 yards during a season he was injured. All you have to make any legitimate claim on is one game. And I agree with you about that one game. But one game doesn't really tell you anything.

Keep trying to convince people that catching for 1000 yards during a season you were injured was a failure. You're certainly not going to convince me.


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Here is some perspective:

1,000 yard seasons - especially receiving - are not what they were when we were growing up. I'll skip the rules changes that made/continues-to-make the league uber passer-friendly and remind you that a 1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards per game.

In 2019, Braylon had TWO 100+ yard games. One was 101 and one was 161. The closest he came to a 3rd 100 yard game was 87 yards. His 1,000 yard season was 1,035...64.7 per game average...for approx $15 million.

I have stated numerous times on here that the 2020 opener is not "just one game" in regards to Braylon's performance during his tenure as a Brown. Easy drops, lack of concentration, body language of a toddler, stupid penalties. He did that with regularity last year...and started 2020 doing it/that again.

I see him out-performed by WRs on every team in our division...even on his own team. He's a 7th year vet and 3-time Pro Bowler..and he's played and acted like a self-absorbed, questionable-hands, poor-route-running version of the last Browns WR to fit that description.

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#1792862 - 09/16/20 09:34 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
OldColdDawg Online   content

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My only real issue with OBJ other than him not performing to his star status is Baker and coaches thinking they have to force the ball to him to get him involved. He's involved every time he comes off that line and takes one, two, or three defenders with him.

That and the purple hair... I expected his blonde hair, was not ready for purple. Why purple? lol
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#1792863 - 09/16/20 09:35 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
Bull_Dawg Online   content
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There are some rumblings on profootballtalk that Allen Robinson is unhappy in Chicago. Would people on here consider making a trade for him with OBJ?

I do think it's a bit early, and I'd probably want a pick with him due to Robinson's contract situation.

It's honestly more of a hypothetical question for me. If we were going to trade OBJ, how would you feel about Allen Robinson being his replacement?
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#1792865 - 09/16/20 09:40 AM Re: Odell [Re: Versatile Dog]
bonefish Offline

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All of this comes from getting whipped by the Ravens.

I will give this team the first four games. And then reassess.

I want this to work. I want Odell and Baker to be good.

It has been no fun at all being a Browns fan really since Bernie.

I am so sick of losing I can not even explain it.

It is a problem for me. I wish it didn't mean so much. But I can not change myself. I hate losing. It eats at me.

I want to wake up from this nightmare of losing. I want Cleveland to be great. I want respect for the Browns and the city. When the Cav's won. I could not believe it. It was such a thrill. The Browns or Indians winning a championship would mean so much for so many.

There are no trophy's for wishes. It has to be earned.

The thought of going back to the draft to find a savior quarterback. That is a hard pill to swallow. That is four years of hoping you are right.



Edited by bonefish (09/16/20 09:52 AM)

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#1792870 - 09/16/20 09:43 AM Re: Odell [Re: Versatile Dog]
Bull_Dawg Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.


It works both ways. At times it looks like the Baker hate is deflecting from OBJ's recent struggles.

Both need to play better. Both could also stand to lead better.
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#1792873 - 09/16/20 09:51 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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J/C
I think itís fair (and correct) to say that:

- Baker sucks
- OBJ has been a huge disappointment

They are both true IMO
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#1792892 - 09/16/20 10:49 AM Re: Odell [Re: Bull_Dawg]
mgh888 Online   content

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Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


--I think trading OBJ would be dumb and it's a manufactured story.

--I think a lot of the OBJ hate is being generated by folks who are trying to deflect attention away from Baker's issues.


It works both ways. At times it looks like the Baker hate is deflecting from OBJ's recent struggles.

Both need to play better. Both could also stand to lead better.

I don't really buy into that. I see virtually EVERYONE acknowledge Baker needs to play better. I don't actually see anyone suggesting Baker's bad play is because of OBJ.

I do see one poster seemingly imply that OBJ is an Elite WR and his struggles are because of the QB.


Edited by mgh888 (09/16/20 10:49 AM)
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#1792915 - 09/16/20 12:10 PM Re: Odell [Re: mac]
PitDAWG Offline

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Originally Posted By: mac
rast...'kool aid' for breakfast, I see. saywhat


It would be nice if you actually said something.
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#1792916 - 09/16/20 12:13 PM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

1,000 yard seasons - especially receiving - are not what they were when we were growing up. I'll skip the rules changes that made/continues-to-make the league uber passer-friendly and remind you that a 1,000 yard season = 62.5 yards per game.


It is for a WR who was injured all season. Nobody is buying it.
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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#1792934 - 09/16/20 01:16 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.

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#1792938 - 09/16/20 01:29 PM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
Dave Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.


Come on Willie, at least get his name right - its Leon.

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#1792956 - 09/16/20 02:12 PM Re: Odell [Re: rastanplan]
superbowldogg Offline

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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Your opinion is yours alone.

Going to a team that has not won a game is not a soft landing.


To say Baker does not have arm talent? Well I don't think that those who make a living in football would agree.

So two seasons and one game against the Ravens and it is all over for Baker.

Don't apply for a GM position any time soon.


If Baker had NFL arm talent we would never have been a walk on college QB.


this is simply not true.

my son just walked on for his college baseball team because he believed he had a better opportunity. Other kids on his team walked on as well when they had full rides to d2 colleges.
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#1792961 - 09/16/20 02:19 PM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
I'm not selling anything...Braylon is.


Au contraire.
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#1792974 - 09/16/20 02:41 PM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
Swish Online   content

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well if the reports are BS, the national media certainly doesn't think so. all the major sports shows was talking about the report.

and lets be clear: they tend to be right about this team a hell of a lot more than not.
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#1793009 - 09/16/20 03:12 PM Re: Odell [Re: WSU Willie]
THROW LONG Offline

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Quote:
I watched all (4) AFC North teams this weekend. The Bengals have TWO WRs that I would trade for Braylon AND give up a draft pick. The Steelers have TWO as well...and their #1 WR isn't one of the two. We have the best slot WR in the game...a solid #3 WR who can't get on the field...a STer posing as a WR...and a diva WR who can't catch the ball.


I think you mean,
Best Slot WR, Landry
solid #3 WR who can't get on the field, Higgins
a STer posing as a WR, Hodges
and a diva WR who can't catch the ball. Beckham, (but he CAN catch the ball)

Man why can't we see Higgins in the mix.
Caller to the postgame said it best, "good things happen for this team when Rahard Higgins plays"

Figure it out it's not, covid vaccines for God's sakes.
It's not Rocket Science get Higgins on the field,
Without telling me you have to sit Beckham or Landry,
I wasn't born yesterday.


Edited by THROW LONG (09/16/20 03:14 PM)
Edit Reason: color
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#1793032 - 09/16/20 03:36 PM Re: Odell [Re: THROW LONG]
PitDAWG Offline

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Why don't we see Higgins more? Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?

I know the fan base who has no clue what goes on during practice feel they have some upper hand in what's going on, but somehow I seriously doubt that.

Or maybe it's just some conspiracy to keep better players off the field?
_________________________
Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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#1793045 - 09/16/20 04:09 PM Re: Odell [Re: Swish]
Pdawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: Swish
well if the reports are BS, the national media certainly doesn't think so. all the major sports shows was talking about the report.

and lets be clear: they tend to be right about this team a hell of a lot more than not.


The national media doesnít care if itís true, as long as they can get clicks. It makes for a good story so they run with it.

Btw I only have seen the one person (Francesca) that has reported this. Everyone else is running with his reporting.
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#1793046 - 09/16/20 04:09 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
oobernoober Offline

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Plus, we already knew Higgins wasn't going to get a ton of opportunities. It's probably part of the reason why he could've left last offseason. Lots of guys that need touches/targets.
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#1793052 - 09/16/20 04:19 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
Bull_Dawg Online   content
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Why don't we see Higgins more? Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?

I know the fan base who has no clue what goes on during practice feel they have some upper hand in what's going on, but somehow I seriously doubt that.

Or maybe it's just some conspiracy to keep better players off the field?


As far as Dorsey/Kitchens, Higgins wasn't a real football player AKA Dorsey didn't draft/acquire him. It seemed like Dorsey's guys were put at the front of the line automatically.

I worry at times the new regime might rely too heavily on analytics. Higgins' SPARQ/workout numbers weren't very good. We'll see how it shakes out, though. Offense wasn't on the field long enough for starters to get too tired.
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#1793053 - 09/16/20 04:19 PM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
waterdawg Online   embarrased

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The same two coaching staffs that wouldn't put Higgy on the field , are the same two that can't find away to get Chubb and Hunt on the field at the same time. Must be like Rocket science or something.

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#1793060 - 09/16/20 04:24 PM Re: Odell [Re: Bull_Dawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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I'm slightly skeptical that the FO analytics department is telling the coaching staff which WR's should be getting playing time. I think the playing time id dependent on practice. You may be right that the former FO preferred their guys get more playing time. But then one would have to believe that the FO is dictating who gets playing time to the coaching staff for that to happen.
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Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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#1793062 - 09/16/20 04:24 PM Re: Odell [Re: waterdawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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Maybe it's the fan base that thinks they're the rocket scientists?
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Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

#gmstrong

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#1793067 - 09/16/20 04:27 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
waterdawg Online   embarrased

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Good one .. Let me state right now ; No one has ever confused me with a Rocket Scientist !

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#1793076 - 09/16/20 04:35 PM Re: Odell [Re: waterdawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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Maybe if I had said they think they know more than the previous two coaching staffs combined would have worked better.

But it was you that brought up the rocket scientist topic. wink
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Sashi Brown was so bad at his job in Cleveland, no other NFL team would even offer him a job. He has been relegated to being in charge of "the culture" of an NBA team. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

#gmstrong

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#1793096 - 09/16/20 05:15 PM Re: Odell [Re: PitDAWG]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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Quote:
Did anyone stop to consider that our last two HC's have determined that during practice, based on the actual evidence, that he hasn't earned more playing time?


Yes, let's use our last two HCs, particularly the last one, as a good measuring stick for decision-making.
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#1793117 - 09/16/20 06:29 PM Re: Odell [Re: MemphisBrownie]
Versatile Dog Offline

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j/c:

Dorsey didn't want Higgins on the field? Who was the GM when Higgins had his only decent year?

Higgins is a JAG.



Moving on. We should start a poll to predict who will be the next target of the shield Baker campaign just in case the Browns do trade OBJ.
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#1793125 - 09/16/20 07:13 PM Re: Odell [Re: Versatile Dog]
Steubenvillian Offline
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I still believe Odell is a great player, but IMO, he is very immature. I would not be surprised if he is disappointed with Baker. Mayfield has not had an easy path, but blaming coaching changes and other things for a lack of basic fundamentals is a little too much for me. He is horrible after his first read, and predictable, when things break down. Learning a new system every year could be tough, but others have done it and still were able to perform. As for Odell, I would like to see the all 22 from Sunday's game, to see if he was getting open, and where the passes were being placed. I do think he lets people get in his head, and I don't like his body language, but he has the talent.

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#1793127 - 09/16/20 07:22 PM Re: Odell [Re: Steubenvillian]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I agree w/almost all of that. He is immature. And he had an awful game on Sunday. Stepping out of bounds on the route was inexcusable. The drop that would have been a first down was terrible. I do think he worries too much about what people say. I do wonder if he has lost confidence in Baker. Do you remember the one fourth down play where it was 4th and 1 and we get a penalty to make it 4th and 6? Baker drops back and heaves it way downfield. I'm thinking why not just try and pick-up the first down, but then I see OBJ is wide open and Baker misses him by a mile. Stuff like that has to be frustrating.

The best thing for the Browns would be if Baker and OBJ both got on the same page and both started playing better. Both of them stunk on Sunday and both guys had too many bad plays last year. We need them to improve.
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#1793166 - 09/16/20 08:24 PM Re: Odell [Re: Versatile Dog]
Steubenvillian Offline
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He overthrew a couple long balls, can't remember who the other one was to. It has been said that Cousins struggled for a few weeks in this offense, then went on to have his best season. I hope that is what happens here.

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#1793205 - 09/16/20 10:57 PM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
FORTBROWNFAN Offline

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I didn't do a lot of research on things OBJ has done and my "negative " opinion of him was founded on things I heard.

Tonight while out walking I was listening to his press conference podcast aired yesterday he changed my mind. He was very sincere and his answers were well thought out and I did not catch any arrogance or me too attitude.

I realize it does not prove anything but he sounds like a decent guy with a good attitude.

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#1793214 - 09/17/20 03:54 AM Re: Odell [Re: bonefish]
steve0255 Offline

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Posts: 134
Loc: North Carolina
There's more to the issue than just an OBJ and/or Baker problem. First thing I noticed was the constant rolling out right. First, this narrows the field which limits Baker's targets. Second, all crossing patterns are now running into the defensive flow rather than having the defense play straight up. Third and most importantly, the CB's now can play tight because they will always have help over the top which reduces separation.

Baltimore obviously knew Baker would roll right and set up their defense accordingly. More often than not, a LB would come from the left with regular frequency. Baltimore narrowed the field and thus forced Baker to throw into tight windows because his options were reduced greatly.

Add into this that the Browns passed 59% of the snaps with what many might say as the best 1/2 RB's in football and the subsequent 3 fumbles, 1 int on what was supposed to be a run first team makes you take a deeper look.

IMHO, the Browns went to great length's to protect Wills. They went away from the run and limited Baker's opportunities to 50% of the field. Now, protecting Wills as he grows into the position might be warranted (limits the offense) at times but I expect the Bengals will take the same game plan tonight against the Browns.

Now I believe Baker needs to get better, I believe OBJ needs to get better but when you're limiting them to 50% of the field against a 100% defense you are going to fail or eventually make a mistake. The Browns have a 3rd year QB sitting on his 4th head coach and at least in game 1 went away from the run first offense and limited their QB to only 50% of the field against a 100% defense that knew what they were going to do.

Until the Browns play straight up on offense and allow Baker to have access to all his weapons the Browns will struggle, Baker will struggle, and OBJ will struggle. As a defense, if I know 75% of the time the QB will roll right and I can create 11 on 7 matchups - I'm pretty sure I will win more often than not.

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