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#1806390 - 10/17/20 10:41 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Versatile Dog]
Rishuz Offline

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#1806391 - 10/17/20 10:43 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I'll gladly discuss this w/you in a PM. On this thread, I would rather stick w/Baker and team rather than board personalities. PM me if you want to hear my thoughts on personalities and/or if you want to carry on w/your thoughts about my character.
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#1806394 - 10/17/20 10:50 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Versatile Dog]
Rishuz Offline

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I'm aware of all the personality stuff. Honestly it's not that important to me. I'm just posting tonight to pass the time during commercials of the Georgia Alabama game.
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#1806431 - 10/18/20 08:46 AM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
bonefish Online   content

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Baker Summary

Games played - 35

Record - 16-18

Comp % - 61.4%

Yards - 8528

Y/A - 7.3

TD's - 58
Int's - 39.

=================================

He came to a team who had not won a game. He has not missed a start once he earned the starting job.

He is in his third year. The team is 4-1.

The list of quarterbacks before Baker are on the back of some jerseys.

I will take what we have and be glad to see a player who wants to be here.

He knows he has to improve in some areas. He wants to be great. His teammates follow him. He is the leader of the team.

He has the skill set to become very good.

All that needs to happen is continue to do what he is doing. Stay with the program he is on with his head coach and the staff. Stay in one system and continue to improve inside that system.

We will see where that leads. I will remain patient. Because patience is needed when players are developing.

I am enjoying being above 500 for the first time in a long, long time. I am looking forward to see where we can go "this" year.

For those who want to dissect every stat and try to win arguments go for it. It is a discussion board.

I am just happy to have a chance at post season play instead of where this team has been for the last endless years.

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#1806435 - 10/18/20 09:39 AM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: bonefish]
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Now there is an interpreted insult in my post?

Is there an insult in my post?

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#1806437 - 10/18/20 09:42 AM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
mgh888 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
You act like you're the only one who has ever criticised Baker and said those things. Hell, I was probably saying most of that before you were.


You noticed huh? I think the "Personality Stuff" isn't personality stuff at all. I think it's other posters objecting to the hypocrisy and manipulation of posts and commenting on it ... He invents things no-one ever said in a fashion that he calls other posters liars for when they make generalizations and exaggerate.

No-one ever claimed Baker was perfect or a finished product. No-one ever claimed all of Baker's struggles were entirely a bi-product of everyone else's faults. Yet that's been the claim and 'discussion' put forth by this poster. I think most posters acknowledged Baker had areas to grow and improve. But just look at this year, some posters are talking about Baker taking coaching to change his footwork, new offense, new OC and new HC, learning the playbook via Zoom meetings without pre-season; all as additional factors to consider when we look at Baker's command and knowledge of the offense early in the season. Some including myself have suggested Stefanski is pulling Baker back to basics and coaching him in essence like he's a rookie, because the "coaching" he got from Hue and Freddie was either non-existent or taught/encouraged bad QB traits. But instead of acknowledging any of these factors - someone instead chooses to mock the idea that they might have an impact.

Back to Baker ... I'm expecting a tough outing today against Pit, but I think we'll learn some more about his growth and development. Pit pass rush is legit and I expect to see Baker running when he shouldn't if they get to him ... but hoping he'll maintain more consistent play through 4 quarters. I don't think we'll be so far ahead that Baker can afford to lay another egg in the 4th Q.


Edited by mgh888 (10/18/20 09:44 AM)
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#1806455 - 10/18/20 11:27 AM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
ChargerDawg Offline

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Baker is the only QB to start for the Browns since they pulled Tyrod Taylor in the second quarter of the Jets game.

The revolving door days for Browns QB's are over. That is the most important stat for me.
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#1806461 - 10/18/20 11:53 AM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: ChargerDawg]
PitDAWG Offline

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ESPN ranks Baker as the #8 QB in the NFL according to QBR for the season this far.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qb

NFL.com has him rated at #17 thus far for the season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-6-justin-herbert-vaults-into-top-10
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#1806481 - 10/18/20 12:50 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mac]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: mac
oobs...go back and look at the plays just before Baker's two interceptions...then tell me how good the Browns OLine is at "protecting" their QB


mac,
This comment. Wasn't that far up....


oobs...did you check the video to see the plays I referred to? The plays just prior to both of Baker's INTs...

Anyone that wants to suggest I'm unnecessarily criticizing the Browns OLine...look at the video first.


So are you saying that the Oline isn't doing a good enough job of protecting Baker because of 2 plays (against a very very stout Dline)?
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#1806813 - 10/18/20 02:07 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
PastorMarc Offline

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Horrible
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#1806948 - 10/18/20 02:36 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: PastorMarc]
oobernoober Offline

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Baker isn't the guy right now. I think everyone knows that.

What the disagreement (and real discussion) is about is if he can become that guy. I think he can, but how that pick-6 happened is... troubling, to put it kindly.
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#1807148 - 10/18/20 03:24 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
RocketOptimist Offline

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Whatís sad is the contingent in here hoping for his failure. Shame on all of you. Go find a new fandom.

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#1807174 - 10/18/20 03:29 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
RocketOptimist Offline

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Wrong thread


Edited by RocketOptimist (10/18/20 03:30 PM)

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#1807240 - 10/18/20 03:57 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Versatile Dog]
Steubenvillian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Be careful or you will be their next target.

Look, when I dared to suggest that Baker needed to work on his footwork, the same folks who are bashing me now were the ones who said his footwork was fine.

When I said he struggled going through his progressions, they were the same guys bashing me back then.


Franchise QBs make plays when the going gets rough. Baker has not done that. His performance in the first quarter at Pittsburgh sealed the deal for me. He was under pressure, but he couldn't make a play for the life of him. The pick six was just a horrible decision, like he doesn't see anything but his receiver. That play sealed the game for Pittsburgh. I know it was early, but it took all the fight out of our team right from the get go.

When I said he didn't prepare hard enough last off-season, they bashed me for that. He later came out and said it himself.

When I said he wasn't producing in the clutch, they balked yet again.

When I said he held it too long, they blamed the OL.

They change their tunes when the evidence becomes overwhelming, but it's always the same guys who think their criticisms of me actually makes Baker a better football player. I am amazed that more people haven't seen through their facade.

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#1807251 - 10/18/20 04:01 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
RocketOptimist Offline

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Imagine being 4-2 and telling everyone ďsee, I was right! Heís terrible!Ē

So embarrassing.

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#1807300 - 10/18/20 04:29 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
Rishuz Offline

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Vers is the only happy fan this week.
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#1807326 - 10/18/20 05:35 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
cfrs15 Offline

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Serious question:

If you needed to win one game during the 2020 season who would you want as your QB, Baker or Ryan Fitzpatrick? I know my answer. The fact that weíre even having this discussion is the part that is concerning. Baker was the #1 pick, he needs to be much better than he is.

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#1807328 - 10/18/20 05:40 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
Rishuz Offline

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Baker won't be the first #1 overall to bust.

The problem is they drafted Baker based on his moxie. We are seeing what happens when the moxie disappears.

Maybe we shouldn't draft people based on moxie.
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#1807332 - 10/18/20 05:43 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
Rishuz Offline

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You know it's really interesting...no one really likes Baker...he's somewhat of a national punching bag because of his personality and people's investment in being right that he wouldn't be any good.

So he's given all these gifts to prove those people wrong and he can't successfully use that as motivation.
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#1807333 - 10/18/20 05:44 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
Psydeffect Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Vers is the only happy fan this week.


I know he's not a Baker fan, but I'm sure he would rather see Baker succeed and win and prove him wrong. So I'm going to guess he's not happy.

Me personally, I've been very patient with Baker. But it's starting to wear thin after today. Unfortunately we just don't have any better options at this point. Might as well just stick with him and see if he can succeed as a game manager. I'm unsure if he can even do that at this point though. His decision making today was head scratching at best.

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#1807336 - 10/18/20 05:48 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Maybe we shouldn't draft people based on moxie.


I think that was a factor but not everything. In hindsight Lamar Jackson should have been the #1 pick and itís not close.

(I wanted Josh Rosen.)

I donít think John Dorsey was great but heís a complete disaster if Bakerís a bust.

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#1807337 - 10/18/20 05:50 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
Rishuz Offline

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I disagree. I think it should have been Allen.

Lamar is an incredible football player. He's an average QB. And maybe 2 franchises total would have had the guts to do what the Ravens did to their offense to cater to him.

Allen will have the better career.
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#1807338 - 10/18/20 05:50 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
RocketOptimist Offline

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But would Lamar be successful with any other coaches? I credit Lamarís success much to Baltimore building a system around him.

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#1807340 - 10/18/20 05:52 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I disagree. I think it should have been Allen.

Lamar is an incredible football player. He's an average QB. And maybe 2 franchises total would have had the guts to do what the Ravens did to their offense to cater to him.

Allen will have the better career.


I disagree with that take but the point still stands. We took the third best QB when we had the #1 pick.

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#1807341 - 10/18/20 05:53 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
But would Lamar be successful with any other coaches? I credit Lamarís success much to Baltimore building a system around him.


Would he be better than Baker given the same circumstances? I say yes.

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#1807343 - 10/18/20 05:55 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
RocketOptimist Offline

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Not sure heíd succeed in Stefanskiís system. Lamarís offense looks complicated but it runs well as itís his wheel house. Not sure he could throw from the pocket while making the reads in this one.

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#1807348 - 10/18/20 06:12 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Not sure heíd succeed in Stefanskiís system. Lamarís offense looks complicated but it runs well as itís his wheel house. Not sure he could throw from the pocket while making the reads in this one.


Imagine Lamar on the move with all that space on some of bootlegs we run. With our running game. Lamar Jackson would be probably be the second or third QB taken if the NFL had a fantasy type draft. Where would Mayfield go? 16th?

Just going through it here are the QBs I would 100% take over Mayfield for the 2020 season:

Ben Roethlisberger
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Patrick Mahomes
Derek Carr
DeShaun Watson
Ryan Tannehill
Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Tom Brady
Kyler Murray
Russell Wilson

That makes Baker the 12th best QB at best. I didnít include guys like Drew Brees, Jared Goff, Phillip Rivers, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Ryan, and Carson Wentz but they are all also likely better.

The bottom line is that Baker needs to be much, much better. I think he can improve a little but his problems seem to be getting worse, not better. He has to play this year so we know what we have going into his fourth year.

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#1807353 - 10/18/20 06:17 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
Rishuz Offline

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Baker is bottom 5, possibly bottom 2.

He's not worse than Darnold.

How many QBs would not be able to use OBJ?

That's insane.
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#1807375 - 10/18/20 06:51 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Rishuz]
Versatile Dog Offline

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j/c:

In Baker's defense, he was heavily pressured today. He did not have enough time on many plays.

On the other hand, he put us in a bad situation w/his poor play.

Conclusion: I don't think he is a guy that will lead you to the promised land. It's great if everything is going perfectly, but he isn't the guy who can overcome obstacles, in my opinion.
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#1807378 - 10/18/20 07:11 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Versatile Dog]
RocketOptimist Offline

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I appreciate this. Quite measured, too.

Thanks for not taking the ďI told all of you that I was right, see!!Ē approach.

I guess Iím trying to stay optimistic that heíll find a way to read things in a more efficient and quick manner because we sure needed that today.

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#1807384 - 10/18/20 07:23 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
I appreciate this. Quite measured, too.

Thanks for not taking the ďI told all of you that I was right, see!!Ē approach.

I guess Iím trying to stay optimistic that heíll find a way to read things in a more efficient and quick manner because we sure needed that today.


It is not impossible. It is also not likely. My views on Baker took a turn after listening to a Jake Burns podcast with Matt Waldman. They did not paint a rosy picture and the things they discussed have played out.

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#1807387 - 10/18/20 07:25 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Quote:
Thanks for not taking the ďI told all of you that I was right, see!!Ē approach.


I've never been that guy. It's guys like 888 who say that over and over and over and over.

I have only said that it bothers me that when people act like my analysis of the game is so bad even after most of the things I have said have proven to be true. I would never ask anyone to agree w/me, but acting like my points have no validity is wrong. I will also say that no one on this board admits to being wrong more than I do.

I try and talk football. These stupid personal attacks that occur over and over and over again do irritate me at times. I try and ignore them, but it gets old.
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#1807389 - 10/18/20 07:29 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: Versatile Dog]
rastanplan Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

In Baker's defense, he was heavily pressured today. He did not have enough time on many plays.

On the other hand, he put us in a bad situation w/his poor play.

Conclusion: I don't think he is a guy that will lead you to the promised land. It's great if everything is going perfectly, but he isn't the guy who can overcome obstacles, in my opinion.


Pitt was defending the run because they knew Baker can't beat them. Take away his first read, pressure him and defend the run.

This day and age either we have a playmaker mobile QB with extra arm talent, or you have a QB with a cannon that can drop back 5-7 steps and still make the play.

Baker is average, slow to read the field and slow to react.. its hard to be successfull like that, the moment you fall beind any good team then game is over. Our players know it...


Edited by rastanplan (10/18/20 07:30 PM)

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#1807417 - 10/18/20 09:09 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: mgh888]
GratefulDawg Offline

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#1807423 - 10/18/20 09:32 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: RocketOptimist]
homer_brown Offline

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Whatís sad is the contingent in here hoping for his failure. Shame on all of you. Go find a new fandom.


Pointing out his shortcomings is not hoping he fails.
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#1807429 - 10/18/20 10:03 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: GratefulDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.

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#1807437 - 10/18/20 10:26 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
superbowldogg Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.


if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded
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#1807439 - 10/18/20 10:30 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: superbowldogg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.


if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded


Who? Favre got traded because he was a crazy person not because he stunk. He had four pass attempts in his one season with Atlanta.

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#1807441 - 10/18/20 10:34 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: cfrs15]
superbowldogg Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.


if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded


Who? Favre got traded because he was a crazy person not because he stunk. He had four pass attempts in his one season with Atlanta.


Drew Brees
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#1807442 - 10/18/20 10:36 PM Re: Baker Comparisons [Re: superbowldogg]
superbowldogg Offline

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wait.. he wasn't traded. he left right?
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