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This could backfire if Hoyer gets beat out in pre season. If he sits for the season behind Manzeil his worth goes way down.
GO BROWNS!
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Sadly I believe if Hoyer can pull 8-8, he'd be worth 10+ mil in the FA market.
As has been mentioned, it's the Flacco thing. He waited it out and his contract paid off for waiting. If you look at what Cassel and some QB's who only won a few games pulled in on the FA market, I believe that may be a risk he and his agent are willing to take.
From a P.R. standpoint, I think that unless he plays lights-out, the only thing he's going to accomplish is to feed the Manziel bandwagon. I can see the agent's hesitancy to work on things generating a LOT of negative press/publicity/pressure for Hoyer.
Let's face it... it is not "hard" or "difficult" to work a deal that will be good for everyone. It's pretty simple, actually.
This is simply nothing more than agent-speak saying that it isn't happening at all, period, right now unless we were to blow them away with an offer that would be grossly overpaying (e.g. Flacco-type money). Unless Hoyer is significantly better than Flacco, he does not deserve that kind of money, because Flacco isn't good enough to deserve that kind of money. I have little doubt that the Ravens regret that contract, lol!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It could backfire either way really. Him and his agent would need to way to the risk-vs-rewards ordeal.
The vice versa of your statement would be: he accepts a smaller/weaker contract and then comes in as starter and balls (like he did last year during his short time playing). Then he's proven quality without the money in the pocket.
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I'm not saying that doesn't sound good in theory, but I'd say that in the Hoyer camp, they would most likely believe if he ends up being the starter, he's worth more than that 6 mil.
It's quite a gamble for them to take. But a player should believe he is the best. If that is their belief, in their minds, Hoyer will start over Manziel which will raise his value by quite a bit. So the question becomes, settle for a lower amount now, or look for a much better deal a little later.
I believe that is why they seem to be tending to be happy with not being in a hurry to make a deal.
I think it's actually quite simple. Put performance target bonuses in the contract. Make some of them rather easy to reach and then with higher performance, he gets more money. Write it so that any such bonuses are paid as soon as the performance criteria are met. You could also add in an insurance policy, where if he gets injured and misses extended time that the performance bonuses get 'projected out' for the season and if the projections would have him meeting the bonuses that he would still get paid them (when he would be projected to get them).
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Sadly I believe if Hoyer can pull 8-8, he'd be worth 10+ mil in the FA market.
As has been mentioned, it's the Flacco thing. He waited it out and his contract paid off for waiting. If you look at what Cassel and some QB's who only won a few games pulled in on the FA market, I believe that may be a risk he and his agent are willing to take.
Perhaps ..... but perhaps not. It all depends on how the season plays out.
Look at Alex Smith in KC. He helped that team turn around in a huge way ..... yet he and the Chiefs are reportedly miles away on a new deal. He is not seen as "the" difference maker on the team, but rather more as a cog in the machine. It was the same view that the Niners held about him.
I see no reason, as of right now, why Hoyer would be worth more on the open market than a guy like Smith would be. Granted, Smith hasn't hit the open market yet ..... but I think that teams see him more as a stop gap "bridge" QB, rather than a franchise type.
If Hoyer plays lights out, then the Browns will try their best to re-sign him, even if it takes a huge deal. If he is just average, then i don't see some huge deal coming his way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Let's face it... it is not "hard" or "difficult" to work a deal that will be good for everyone. It's pretty simple, actually.
Could there be considerations should Manzel start giving Hoyer a chance to latch on with another team next season and his contract now could be a detriment to him in a trade?
Only bringing it up because I don't know how all that works.
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Quote:
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Sadly I believe if Hoyer can pull 8-8, he'd be worth 10+ mil in the FA market.
As has been mentioned, it's the Flacco thing. He waited it out and his contract paid off for waiting. If you look at what Cassel and some QB's who only won a few games pulled in on the FA market, I believe that may be a risk he and his agent are willing to take.
Perhaps ..... but perhaps not. It all depends on how the season plays out.
Look at Alex Smith in KC. He helped that team turn around in a huge way ..... yet he and the Chiefs are reportedly miles away on a new deal. He is not seen as "the" difference maker on the team, but rather more as a cog in the machine. It was the same view that the Niners held about him.
I see no reason, as of right now, why Hoyer would be worth more on the open market than a guy like Smith would be. Granted, Smith hasn't hit the open market yet ..... but I think that teams see him more as a stop gap "bridge" QB, rather than a franchise type.
If Hoyer plays lights out, then the Browns will try their best to re-sign him, even if it takes a huge deal. If he is just average, then i don't see some huge deal coming his way.
I think it should also be contractual that any victory over a division opponent sees a bonus paid to every active player on the roster and with contributors to the victories getting a bigger slice of the pie.
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Let's face it... it is not "hard" or "difficult" to work a deal that will be good for everyone. It's pretty simple, actually.
Could there be considerations should Manzel start giving Hoyer a chance to latch on with another team next season and his contract now could be a detriment to him in a trade?
Only bringing it up because I don't know how all that works.
I would guess that this part would be self-regulating.... if Hoyer doesn't play well enough to hold off Manziel, he wouldn't be hitting any performance escalators, so the value of his contract would be quite low and easily tradeable. If he plays well, Manziel will continue to sit, and he will have shots at hitting escalators and inflating the value of his contract.
The agent is simply trying to hit a home run when he just needs to try for a solid double.
Heck, they could build in clauses that if he hits certain escalators, it could trigger an option to opt-out and re-negotiate.... it's just a contract, they can word it any way they want. The only limiters would be the NFLPA and the CBA.... and their imaginations.
The agent simply doesn't want to get it done right now because he is gambling that his leverage will be greater in the middle of the season, potentially just before we begin a playoff push and he can be a distraction, a story every media outlet would love to run with - increasing value in the court of public opinion. #1 rule in negotiating... your value is whatever you can convince someone it is.
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Brian Hoyer's agent says a contract extension with the Cleveland Browns before November would be 'very difficult'
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/brian_hoyers_agent_says_a_cont.html
 By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on June 30, 2014 at 7:16 PM, updated July 01, 2014 at 7:36 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns are trying to extend the contract of quarterback Brian Hoyer, who's base salary is only $1 million this season, but his agent acknowledges that it will be tough to pull off before November given Hoyer's uncertain role on the team.
"It will be a very difficult deal to do,'' agent Joe Linta told NFL.com. "We're always open to talking with the Browns, but we're content to wait and see what happens down the road."
ESPN's Adam Schefter first reported Monday that extension talks have taken place.
Linta also told profootballtalk.com that two dates are looming regarding a new deal: November 1 and the end of the season. The feeling is that by November, Hoyer will know if he's the Browns starting quarterback or the backup to Johnny Manziel, whom the Browns traded up from No. 26 to No. 22 to draft on May 8.
And if he starts and plays well, that will mean a bigger payday at the end of the season.
If the Browns do extend Hoyer before the end of the season, they'll likely look at a couple of contracts that were signed this year for quarterbacks who may or may not be long-term starters. Jacksonville's Chad Henne signed a two-year deal worth $8 million, including $4.5 million guaranteed. And Minnesota's Matt Cassel, who will battle rookie Teddy Bridgewater and Christian Ponder for the starting job, received a two-year deal in March worth $10 million.
But those deals are a far cry from what some of the top quarterbacks in the NFL are averaging per year: Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers, $22 million; Atlanta's Matt Ryan, $20.75 million; and Baltimore's Joe Flacco, $20.1 million.
The other reason it's tricky to do an extension right now is that Hoyer is coming off a torn anterior cruciate ligament and hasn't even been cleared for full 11-on-11s yet. He's looked healthy in spring practices and is expected to be full-go by the start of training camp July 26th, but no one really knows how the knee will respond until he experiences full contact.
Conversely, Hoyer might want to re-do the deal and earn a large chunk of guaranteed money to protect himself against another major injury.
As it stands, he'll make $1.25 million in 2014, including his $250,000 roster bonus paid in March. He's also set to make another $1.15 million this year in incentives, most likely based on playing time.
Last offseason, he signed a two-year deal worth $1.965 million -- but with only $250,000 guaranteed.
One thing is for certain: Hoyer will head into training camp as the No. 1 quarterback, and it's his job to lose.
"Brian had been here for those seven, eight weeks before the draft even started,'' coach Mike Pettine said at the conclusion of minicamp. "That was essentially a head start, and I don't think it's insurmountable. Brian is securely ahead of (Manziel) right now, but we will compete and we will decide.
"The issue for us as a staff is finding the right time to name a starter. If you wait too late, then nobody's ready for the opener. If you do it too soon, then it wasn't a true competition."
Hoyer told cleveland.com the day after the draft that he hasn't contemplated going elsewhere with Johnny Football is on board.
"No, because the grass is always greener,'' he said. "You never know how it's going to be and I'm not going to shy away from anything. ..."I'm in this thing and I never want to leave Cleveland. "This is where I was born and raised and being from here doesn't make me the best quarterback for this team. Being the best quarterback makes me the best quarterback for this team. I don't want any sympathy votes because I'm from Cleveland and I'm a local guy. That's not what this is about. This is about putting the best player on the field.''
Manziel made it clear at a Play 60 youth clinic in Berea last week that he wants to be the starter on opening day in Pittsburgh Sept. 7.
"Absolutely,'' he said. "I want to play. That's what anybody wants to do that's been a starter in the past and been playing. They want to play. Obviously I'm very competitive and I remember my redshirt year when I didn't play. It's tough to sit there but at the same time there's a lot of knowledge that I learned from Ryan Tannehill so will it be the end of the world if that's not the case? No. I think you take it in stride and you learn a lot from your situation and you make the most of what situation you're in.
"To say I don't want to be the starter would be ridiculous. I absolutely want to start. That's my goal and hopefully I can achieve that. If not, it's not the end of the world."
(end)
As I said, it will be difficult. One side is going to want a low end deal and the other a high end deal.
I don't see it happening.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The Browns best bet is if they arrive at a number and contract length that offers Hoyer security against injury. I think that it's obvious that he is going to get a shot to win the job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just clicking http://www.newsnet5.com/sports/browns/agent-for-browns-hoyer-confident-contract-coming Quote:
Brian Hoyer's precarious grip on the Browns' starting job -- and rookie Johnny Manziel's presence -- makes it tough to negotiate a new contract for the quarterback.
His agent thinks it will happen anyway.
Hoyer, who is coming back after undergoing offseason right knee surgery, will enter training camp with the lead in his competition with Manziel. But until the Browns are convinced Hoyer is healthy, and providing he holds off Manziel, it's difficult for the team to gauge his value. Agent Joe Linta said the sides have had some preliminary discussions, but it may be some time before they get serious about negotiations.
"We just had a couple of friendly conversations," Linta said in an email to The Associated Press on Tuesday.
"They agreed that it's very difficult to assess his worth presently. I think that this will all work itself quickly as the season moves forward."
Hoyer went 3-0 as a starter last season before tearing his anterior cruciate ligament while sliding at the end of a scramble. He recovered more quickly than doctors expected and he moved well during practices in the team's mini-camp this spring. Hoyer was kept out of 11-on-11 drills to avoid contact, but he's expected to be fully cleared when training camp opens on July 26.
First-year Browns coach Mike Pettine recently said Hoyer had the lead in the quarterback competition over Manziel, who was selected in the first round of May's NFL draft. Manziel could one day supplant Hoyer as Cleveland's starter, but that's not guaranteed, so it's difficult for the team to decide whether they should pay Hoyer like a starter or a backup.
After all, Hoyer had been a career backup before the Cleveland-area native signed a signed a two-year, $1,965,000 contract with the Browns in May 2013. He received a $250,000 roster bonus in March and is scheduled to make a base salary of $1 million next season. The deal can reach $1.15 million with incentives.
The 28-year-old Hoyer has waited patiently for his chance to start. He's paid his dues. He also has impressed the Browns with his determination to return to the field.
Linta said Hoyer is committed to the Browns, and he's hoping they feel the same way about him.
"Brian wants to be in Cleveland," Linta said. "He loves how the fans rallied around him and the team during his winning streak last year. He'll never forget that. With that in mind and if the Browns want him, we will work something out eventually. (General manager) Ray Farmer and (executive VP) Sashi Brown are good guys to deal with and they, like the fans, want to win regardless of who the QB is."
Farmer did not reply to an email seeking comment.
Copyright 2014 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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j/c The agent will want create a lever for Hoyer where the current one is relatively small, and his value undetermined now as a starter. Wait and watch is good for Hoyer and his agent, and not horrible for the FO which has shown a willingness to spend on quality. Hoyer needs to produce as a starter. He needs protection for himself going forward. I favor money up front and heavy escalators. I do not think this is huge concern, especially if it buys JM some time to learn, mature, and adapt. 
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That is why it will be difficult. I'd be shocked if anything happened until maybe mid season at the earliest.
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That's somewhat disappointing. I think as a franchise we have the freedom and the leverage to make a good deal, and signing Hoyer to a solid contract would buy us good will with free agents.
I think that this could be an important contract for the Browns because it would show players in the locker room and in other locker rooms that we're willing to take care of our guys.
If we give Brian something in the area of 7-9 mil over 3 seasons, with about half of that guaranteed, we don't hurt our cap whatsoever, and we don't break the bank, but at the same time we show Brian that he is important to us, and it makes him 5-7 mil more this year, makes it hard to turn down. At the same time, it shows our guys that were willing to take care of the guys that are here and working hard. You know there isn't another guy in that lockerroom working as hard as Brian is.
Give him some cash, show him we want him and we care, and win positive PR all around the league. Then if he shows out, we can move him if that's the case, or we can move Johnny, or we can keep everyone and we look good all the way around.
Make a good will effort towards Hoyer and give him a good contract, its not like were stuck up against the cap. Pay him.
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It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Personally, I don't think the FO is all that serious with giving Hoyer a contract. The guy played in two full games last year and has NEVER shown ability in other stops to sniff starting money or even to warrant a significant increase in salary.
This is JMO, but I think this was leaked out into the media so Johnny Football would catch wind of it as an attempt to reel him in a bit and focus on football just around the corner.
I have no clue why the Browns would entertain a long term contract w/ large salary increase with Hoyer based on his past productivity. It's a nice feel good story to have the local guy stick around on this team for awhile but this is a financial decision and don't think (at least at this point) he is worth the money people are suggesting around here....nevermind the guy is coming off a major injury and hasn't taken a real snap yet.
Sorry, I think this is posturing on the FO side. Nothing more.
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I agree, ridiculous to sing him to a long term contract. Especially before the season begins coming off an ACL. Ridiculous.
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Too much conspiracy thinking for me to handle LOL
I don't agree with you on this. They have doctors reviewing Hoyer all the time. They know the status of his leg.
As for Hoyer having only 2 games in a Browns uni, how many does Manziel have again?
LIke I said, too much conspiracy thinking for me to handle.
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As for Hoyer having only 2 games in a Browns uni, how many does Manziel have again?
Which means none of us really know if we have a QB at all. And I agree with you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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As for Hoyer having only 2 games in a Browns uni, how many does Manziel have again?
I'm not sure what relevance this has with Hoyer deserving another contract?
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As for Hoyer having only 2 games in a Browns uni, how many does Manziel have again?
I'm not sure what relevance this has with Hoyer deserving another contract?
It means that we know nothing about Manziel as it relates to the NFL. Hoyer has a better NFL resume at this moment.
And I think if you look around, most are really hoping that Manziel works out and that if he's not ready day one, that Hoyer can fill in and keep the ship righted.
What it means is, if Hoyer is the starter for Game One, then you gotta pay the man.
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As for Hoyer having only 2 games in a Browns uni, how many does Manziel have again?
I'm not sure what relevance this has with Hoyer deserving another contract?
It means that we know nothing about Manziel as it relates to the NFL. Hoyer has a better NFL resume at this moment.
And I think if you look around, most are really hoping that Manziel works out and that if he's not ready day one, that Hoyer can fill in and keep the ship righted.
What it means is, if Hoyer is the starter for Game One, then you gotta pay the man.
Well of course Hoyer has a better resume at this point...no question. But that doesn't warrant a contract extension by any means.
If Hoyer does start game one, yes you gotta pay the man.....on his current contract. Starting game one is zero indicator in my book for a pay increase. Consistently providing wins and staying healthy will.
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If Hoyer does start game one, yes you gotta pay the man.....on his current contract
We'll see, hope those words don't come back to haunt you.
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If Hoyer does start game one, yes you gotta pay the man.....on his current contract. Starting game one is zero indicator in my book for a pay increase. Consistently providing wins and staying healthy will.
I agree. Winning the starting job as the lesser of two evils is nothing to award a large contract for. He has to win and stay healthy as well.
I like Hoyer. He seems to "get it". He didn't look great like an Andrew Luck. But he has that winning mentality that won't let him give up. In both of his full game wins, although he wasn't great, he looked exciting as he pulled out wins instead of limping to a loss as we've seen with our past QBs.
I think Johnny is of the same type. For the opening game it's a matter of who has the most control of the offense along with the ability to read defenses & coverages at that time.
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My words normally do.
Ehh,, Join the club 
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I agree. Winning the starting job as the lesser of two evils is nothing to award a large contract for
I don't agree,, winning as the lesser of two evils is still a win. if it comes down to losing him or not, you pay him.
I don't think it will come to that however. If Manziel wins the job, I don't see any other team out there that would guarantee Hoyer the starting spot so if he's going to be a back up, then my guess is he'd rather be here.
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What it means is, if Hoyer is the starter for Game One, then you gotta pay the man.
As I see it the ball will be in Hoyer's court. If Hoyer is willing to sign a longer term deal that isn't too disruptive if he ends up being the back-up, then great.. if Hoyer really believes in himself then he could sign a 1 or 2 year extension and prove that he really is NFL starter material and get his big pay day then.. right now, Hoyer is still a relatively unknown commodity with very little leverage to demand a big pay day.
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Which is why I see what his agent is saying as the best case scenario. November at the earliest.
The team will have a better gauge of what he's worth, as well as Hoyer and his agent.
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JC
If the Browns secure Hoyer an extension before end-season, I'll be pretty shocked. Hoyer's situation is unknown. Unknown if he'll be starter. Unknown if he'll even recover from injury cause him saying he's ready/healed 100%... I mean it's not that I don't believe him or want to believe he's lying - I just don't see it yet until the trainers/docs/whoever officially clears him for full practice.
Like his agent said, his value will be better known in Jan I believe he said. He'd sell himself short by agreeing to any terms this soon given all the various twist-n-turns of his ordeal. JMO
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Exactly, he may feel physically ready but he hasn't been hit yet, he hasn't had DL rolling under his feet yet.. hard to know how he'll react when that starts happening..
Like I said, if Hoyer wanted to secure a nice 4 or 5 year deal for a few million a year to make him comfortable for a long time in life I'd be happy to give it to him. If he envisions himself as a long term viable NFL starter (which I assume he does) then he would be better served to wait until he takes a big step toward proving it.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558 Likes: 814
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,558 Likes: 814 |
Quote:
That's somewhat disappointing. I think as a franchise we have the freedom and the leverage to make a good deal, and signing Hoyer to a solid contract would buy us good will with free agents.
Here is the problem. Nobody really knows if Hoyer deserves starter money or solid back-up money. I don't know the numbers, but I assume Hoyer and his agent know the difference between starter money and solid back-up money. I assume the Browns do as well.
To save a lot of explaining, lets just say that neither side wants to get signed in to the wrong type of deal.
The Browns want to get him signed, but I doubt they are going to offer up starter type money. They want to be able to keep him as their back-up or trade him if Johnny takes over the job.. That won't happen if they are paying 10 mil a year over 4-5 years.
As I said very early on, the only way I see this happening early on is if it is a incentive laden contract with kick-in clauses if the does take off and remains our starting QB.
That said, players and agents usually aren't very interested in contracts like that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hoyer says he'll be ready
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