DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pet on the QB Situation

I think Pet would be taking a huge gamble going back to McCown. If McCown lays an egg against Oakland Pettin is going to look like the joke of the NFL plus the fan base will be calling for his head. Another QB controversy anyone?

I hope he makes the decision without worrying about the fans.

It wouldn't be Cleveland football if we didn't have a QB controversy.

One of the talking heads mentioned Roethlisberger, and the face that the game yesterday is exactly how the Steelers started Roethlisberger out.

Why? Because everybody sees those two plays and starts talking about what a great game Johnny had. That's all they see. They don't take the time to watch Johnny on every play and see what he did good, and what he did bad. It's the typical reaction around here. We win a game and all of a sudden we are Super Bowl bound. We lose a game and everybody is jumping off the cliff and screaming to blow the entire team up.

I think Johnny had a good game, overall. Not just the big plays. I think he's improved quite a bit, but not quite enough to warrant removing the starter. Manziel still has a ways to go, but his progress so far is promising. We need to keep doing what we're doing with him.

i know right? i mean, take away Mariota's 6 TD's in 2 games, and what has he really done?

His QB rating was 133.9, 75.3 was his QB rating in the first game... but anyway, if you take away the two fumbles, he was 8/15 for 172 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and no fumbles with a rating of 133.9...

Other than our 7 sacks, our pass rush was only mediocre yesterday.

I will have time tomorrow to re-watch the game and give you a better critique on Johnny bro.

Go for it, I'm sure you will find instances of things he could have done better, the open guy he missed here or there, that his left toe wasn't pointed directly AT the target when he was throwing a couple times, etc...

In the end, he has 4 fumbles, which has got to be fixed... other than that, he has a 99.7 rating, 10th in the NFL among guys with more than 10 attempts... ahead of guys like Romo, Carr, Foles, Bridgwater, and Ryan... well ahead of guys like Wilson, Eli, Brees, Bortles, Flacco, Peyton, Hoyer, Bradfor, Newton, and Luck...

So I doubt you are going to change my mind... but never say never.

PFF agrees with me -2.7 rating

PFF states as it's reason, 2 fumbles and one deep ball thrown into coverage...

For me, the Browns have to see what they have in Manziel. Playing McCown accomplishes nothing. He is a journeyman at the tail end of his career.

This kind of goes to both you and Vers. It's something I have said before.

I have to agree with both of your points about JFF starting at this point. If anyone on our roster is going to have a chance to be the QB of the future, it's JFF. We have spent two seasons signing band aids like Hoyer and McCown waiting for JFF to grow into the role of starting QB. I don't want to see our team enter yet another season, year three, with still having questions at the QB position. I want this team to know by seasons end whether JFF is progressing enough to stay the course with him. Unless he's getting practice time, reps and playing time with the 1's, we won't know that answer.

Now let's flip the coin. This coaching staff is paid to win. They have stated it time and time again they want to win now. They want to win each game. They plan to play the player that best gives them the chance to win each game.

So it seems the goal we wish to see and the approach the coaching staff takes may well be at odds with each other. We want to see where we stand moving forward after this season and they wish to win this week.

I think they go with McCown if they feel like that is their best QB. They stay with him until they feel like JFF has passed him up, then you switch.

Man, listening to Pett on the NFL Network this morning, it sure sounds like they are going with Manziel although he wouldn't come out and say it.

The interviewers were great and one of the interview questions was one that I have been dying to have the answer to yet NO ONE was asking or reporting on it: How is Manziel doing in practice?

I thought Pettine was very complimentary of Manziel in practice. Kind of surprised me. Makes me think even more that even if McCown clears the protocol, Manziel is the guy.

J/C
Imo i think JM should start even if McCown is cleared letting him sit an extra week after a concussion cant hurt esp with him being 36

Also JM had a good day lets see if he can expand on it, win or lose as long as he continues to show progress as a QB

We do have to play him in multiple games this year so we know if we need to draft another QB next year or not due to McCowns age no matter how good he may play this year

I have a gut feeling McCown will start.

Personally I would start Johnny, but I get the feeling Pettine doesn't trust him

I see no reason for McCown to start. He was brought here to be a TEAM guy and mentor to Manziel. He is being very well paid to do what is right for the team. This organization invested a 1st rd pick on Johnny, last year was a bust, he appears to have the system down enough to start and get us our 1st win of the year. I say PLAY him!! We need to know what we have, the draft is in April, are we gonna invest another 1st rounder on a QB or not? Legit questions that can only be answered with Manziel playing, not a 36 yr old who isnt smart enough to avoid contact and whos reputation for crappy decision making under pressure is long.

The entire point of the concussion test is to tell if he is over the concussion. Why would a player need to sit more if he is healthy?

Here is the interview from NFL Network that has been referenced several times in this thread:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/0ap3000000536466/Pettine-No-decision-at-quarterback-yet

Definitely should start Manziel. At this point he would have to be a fool not to.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/9/21/9...manziel-or-josh

Poll for who should start. There are over 4000 votes right now. The leading selection with 2600+ votes is, "I want Manziel to start & I think Pettine will start McCown."

That's the one I also voted for.

Your entire post was good and you brought up a good point here.

Let me ask you this, Pit....

In your opinion, who gives the Browns a better chance to win: McCown or Manziel?

If McCown starts we'll see Manziel in the same game, because McCown has nothing between the ears and will do something stupid in the name of making a play and be hurt again

Honestly, I still start McCown. He's your starter until he's not, and Johnny would be better served to sit some more. I don't feel like McCown has done enough to lose his job, and that's more time for Manziel to hone his craft.

If they start McCown I would be a little surprised but not terribly disappointed. I see the value of letting JM sit awhile longer, also see the value of letting him play and learn on the field.
But damn is he fun to watch. Also terrifying too haha.

How is he going to hone his craft by sitting?

What has McCown ever done to "earn" a starting job? He's been around for over a decade. He's been cut by numerous teams. He has zero pocket presence. He turns the ball over. He's old.

Johnny is young. Let him play. He might not be the guy, but that is better than going w/a guy you KNOW isn't the guy.

The same way he has honed his craft and improved himself during the offseason. By staying out of the spotlight and focusing on LEARNING.




He's better than Manziel is right now. That's enough. His past doesn't matter at all.

Those are fair points, Vers. But what has Johnny done to deserve the job? Even less than McCown, at this point. In fact, he's done more to get himself booted off the team in his short career.

I'm about as excited for Manziel as anyone, but the guy still has a ways to go. He's been making improvements, so I say stick with what you're doing until you're forced to change.

Manziel is not going to wither and die if we don't start him this Sunday. He'll get his chance, and he'll be even better prepared. This is McCown we're talking about... Manziel will get his chance.

His past doesn't matter? So, he magically became a good qb in one off season?

Look, you are one of the three that stand out as hating JM. That's fine, but man, no way are we a better off by going w/McCown over Manziel.

I hate JM? Where the heck do you get that from?
I don't hate JM... especially not after how he has clearly matured and progressed. He's just simply & clearly not as ready as McCown.

And no, his history does not matter at all.... in the present, current moment, he runs this offense better than Manziel. That's all that matters, and I think it's pretty indisputable. There is a CLEAR difference in how this offense moved, especially in the passing game, with McCown under center in Game 1 (against what is now obviously a fairly stout defense) vs the vast majority of things in Game 2. The only real sustained drive we had in Game 2 was driven almost completely by the run game. The was nearly no contribution from the passing game at all.

Look, you're blatantly biased, and you're a total homer for Manziel, but at least TRY to be objective about something for once.

We don't have to agree, noober. It's just discussion and you are being cool about it.

I wanted Teddy over Johnny, so it is not like I am some Johnny fan.

I would play Johnny for these reasons:

--McCown has been a stiff for almost his entire career.

--McCown is approaching the end of his career.

--The Browns are NOT going to the playoffs this year w/either qb.

--The Browns need to find out if JM is the qb of this team moving forward.

--JM has way more upside than McCown.

You can disagree w/me and that's cool. At least your argument was civil. I respect that. I will just leave you w/this:

If we play McCown this year---all year--what do we do in next year's draft? One must assume that you do everything you can to move up and/or stay where you are at to take the highest rated qb in the draft, right?

Now, think about this.................what if you play Johnny this year in a year that [despite what some homers say]is almost certainly going to be .500 or less in regards to winning percentage?

If he ain't the guy, you do what you have to do to get your qb. If he is the guy, you concentrate on improving the talent around him, and Lord knows, the offensive talent needs to improve drastically.

Does any of that make sense to you?

I get it from every post you make about Johnny. You are always ripping on him. That's your right and I am not trying to change that right...........I'm just recognizing it because it is so freaking obvious.

I am biased for JM? A total homer? LOL.........there are others on here [hi Rish and Mourg] who accuse me of hating Manziel because I wanted Teddy over Johnny.

Oh, and I am far more objective than most posters on this board. And it ain't even close.

Hi Vers.

I'm no expert, obviously. I'm just sick of us rushing QBs out there because they're the shiny new toy. I also didn't want Manziel when we drafted him, but that decision was made, and Johnny is here now. Johnny is our guy, Bridgewater isn't. I'm excited about how Manziel is improving, but just because he's shown a glimmer of possibility doesn't mean we need to toss him out there to fail like the rest of our QBs.

I've endured enough losing to endure just a little more to give our guy the best chance at success. If that means watching and learning and practicing and handing the ball off a ton, then so be it.

There are a couple myths floating around that astound me.
1. McCown earned the job.
He was being outplayed by Johnny until the elbow sidelined Johnny.

2. McCown is more than a career backup. The guy has been playing for 15 years on a dozen teams and has one tiny stretch of games where he looked competent. Thats it, the rest of his career he has a 2 to 1 int to td ratio. We know what McCown is and it aint pretty.

Playing QB is as much about confidence as anything else. Why would you bench Johnny when he starts getting it for a guy that is just as likely to retire midseason as he is to be playing.

Hey Rish...............you could have at least backed me up on that.

None of us are experts, my man. We're just discussing. And I think the conversation that you and I had was cool. No name calling. No personal attacks. No BS. We didn't completely agree, but we discussed the topic w/respect.

I'd say that is pretty cool.