DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Farmer's draft picks, game by game

You're way off base. Lot of good back and forth in here especially between DJ and DC and DJ and Pit.

Not sure exactly what you're reading.

To each their own....

Agreed.

The problem, as I see it, is the self proclaimed "expert/s" getting all feisty when someone disagrees with them. Then start accusing people of derailing threads by posting incessantly and confrontingly, and in a demeaning manner, towards people that disagree with them. But, they also gripe when the posting style they use is used against them.

Other than that, I learn some things here. I sometimes see a play one way, only to get another person's opinion and think "Oh, hey, that might be."

Hey, people probably get tired of me, I'm sure.

I was thinking the same thing, man.

Of course you do.

jc

M.Johnson made the PFF Worst Week 2 team:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/21/worst-players-at-every-position-for-week-2/

Fullback: Malcolm Johnson, Browns (-4.1)

Johnson, one of the rare fullbacks still left, was constantly blown up trying to lead-block, finishing with a -3.1 run blocking grade. He also had one pass thrown to him—which he dropped.

When you leave out the FA's hes picked up who have produced for us, then yes, it's agenda driven.

Either look at the total picture or not, but don't expect people to jump on your bandwagon when you tell half the story. That's the definition of "agenda Driven"

Sorry man,, luv ya but that's what it feels like.

Yeah, I didn't think he had a particularly good game last Sunday.

In defense of Django, because I like his posts for the most part, it's not necessarily agenda driven. There are others that clearly are agenda driven and you can see it coming a mile away!!

Look, a GM's main job is to build the team, so yes, that includes the two main avenues of FA (including UDFA) and the draft. But in terms sustaining long term success, I think more weight regarding a GMs success should be put on draft selections. That's just me. I like a GM that limits activity in FA (unlike the 2011 Eagles Dream Team), builds the organization through draft, and adds FA pieces here and there.....The adding 'FA pieces here and there' I think Farmer has done an adequate job but the drafts are clearly under the microscope by many--and rightfully so. I won't get into the 2015 draft because these guys just got done playing two games, but overall including '14/'15, the two main strikes thus far for me are Manziel and Gilbert. And that's about it. Now those are two HUGE STRIKES considering they're 1st rounders, but Manziel may have turned a corner and Gilbert looks like he'll be confirmed a bust in short order if he can't get on the field soon.

Yeah, this is clearly the same approach you took when Django was ripping Banner early on for his draft decisions. I cannot begin to count how many responses you had bashing Django for his opinion on the players and productivity drafted in 2013.

Your comment is comical....the hypocrisy lives and the agenda clearly exhibited!

Well, 2/3 of the roster were brought in by Farmer at some point and he had the most cap room of any GM in the NFL the past two offseasons, couple that with 4 (!) 1st round picks in two drafts and multiple 2nd-4th round selections and we should be looking at a contender in terms of talent, right? Of course we can look at it this way and decide his fate by the final record then. That's cool with me too, because I don't see how this team will be able to win 8 games.
Especially the Offense skill positions are ALL brought in by Farmer. All RBs, WRs, QBs...except for? guess who, Travis Benjamin, lol. He inherited 4/5 of a strong OL.

Farmer needs Manziel, Gilbert, Shelton, Orchard, Desir etc to contribute much more than they do, if he wants to turn this around. Most of the playmakers on this roster were brought in by his predecessors and he has added next to nothing considering the ample resources at his disposal since has taken over.

We should be much, much better than what we are. We've gotten older and slower again with less playmakers, in other words, we're regressing, not progressing.

This is true, he has not brought in the high impact players that one expects at the top of the draft, especially with so many high draft picks.....

But a full analysis of how he is building the team would include ALL of the players brought in, which would include:

Kirksey (I know you said you missed him)
Crowell
Gabriel
K'waun Williams
Lee
Bowe


So there are more good things than the ones you have mentioned, not enough to have missed (at least for now) on so many high draft picks...

Ok, let's expand to them too. Who on your list is an above average player at their position? I don't see one but Lee and, with all respect, he's just a punter, hardly a franchise turning position. K.Williams is a pretty good nickel-CB and would probably hold his own if forced to start on the outside. His main job is to save Farmer's face for the Gilbert/Desir blunders. The fact that they had to sign T.Williams to solidify CB2 is all you need to know.

He also brought in Dansby, Whitner, Housler, Hawkins, McCown, Starks, T.Williams, Solomon, Hartline. Hardly exciting and pretty old list of players, mostly on their career downside, so not sure if they "build" anything really with them. For the most part they cover up draft mistakes: McCown-Manziel, Williams-Gilbert/Desir, Solomon-Mingo/Orchard. Dansby/Whitner have been lateral FA moves for DQwell/Ward. While Dansby is a better all around ILB, I can't say the same about Whitner/Ward. All it did was cost more money and got us older, but better? Not really.

Honestly Memphis, you don't need to defend Dj to me. He's a good guy with good posts all over the board.

It's just that if you are going to look at a job a man does, to judge him fairly, you have to look at the complete job not JUST the part that says he's bad at the job.

I'm not all that delighted with Farmer or "ALL" the things he's done either. But as of right now, it does appear that Manziel is improving. How far he'll go, I have no idea.

I look at Gilbert and it's a pick I might have made, same with Shelton (completely unfair to judge him after two games however) and Erving (scares me that he couldn't crack the starting lineup) I'd never have picked Bitonio, I'd have gone with a wide out there and I'd have missed out on a very solid OG.

I'd have NEVER in a million years taken Johnny Manziel. No way. Bridgewater, Carr maybe even. But not Manziel. But like I said, he's showing some glimmer of hope so we'll see. (McCown has been declared the starter against the Raiders by the way)

So there really isn't any reason to defend Django.. He's a great poster. I just disagree with his measuring tape on this one.

Completely agree...+1000

For the record, I did give Farmer A-grades on 3 or 4 of his 2015 picks (Duke Johnson, X.Cooper, I.Campbell, IEO were all very good value), so it's not like I hate every decision he makes. But overall he has not done a good enough job in my opinion, especially with the high picks and in FA.

I really wanted to like Farmer, but he has done so much wrong that it is hard to trust or support him anymore.

If this season ends with disappointing 4-6 wins, I expect Haslam to clean house again and this time look for "name" hirings at GM and HC, no matter the cost. Not saying that all will be better then (remember Holmgren?), but that's what I think will happen. Haslam doesn't want another textgate rookie blunder or stooges ridicule, he goes for reputation. Mark my words.

And that still will not guarantee success.

I think we can all agree on one thing for sure, we still lack the big time playmakers.

I think we can all agree on one other thing, the draft has always been and will always be a crapshoot.

on paper, nothing wrong with lots of picks he made. the argument could be made that he pick the guys we got and we had a chance to get some guys that have turned in to very solid maybe even stud players.

That's hindsight that won't help us much now.

And paying big money for FA's doesn't always work out either. Again, all you can do is try and I think he's done a pretty good job with FA's. At least we didn't break the bank on Suh LOL Oh man,, that would have really been bad.

But, putting all that aside, who would you go after as GM? I don't even want to think about HC yet.

I can't think of a single solitary guy that would bring significant positive change.

if we swap out again, Joe Thomas career here has been wasted.

most can argue it's already being wasted.

What do you mean? The guy makes killer Universal Windows commercials.

Worst thing we could do is clean house at the end of the year no matter what the record. We have a tough schedule and a new system on O we have to give it some time. I still think we are on the right track and are 4 or 5 players away from really being solid contenders.

HMMMM of the Browns three starters Bryant has played 57.5 percent of the snaps. Shelton has played 56 percent of the snaps, and Starks has played 52.5 percent of the snaps. Shelton also does not play on obvious passing downs including the last 12 defense plays in he Tenn game last week. So I don't see what the problem is with his snap counts? He was also double teamed on almost every down he played last week which frees up the other lineman and the linebackers.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-defensive-snap-count-stats/2015/

GM , I went back and watched the firs half .. Some times doubled , sometimes not , and he was getting Blown off the line of Scrimmage .. I am really pulling for the kid but was surprised based on what I had been reading about him ..

I'm sure DJ understands the role of the NT. I'm sure he understands how the rotation works. I'm sure DJ understands that Shelton has nothing to do with the outside containment that has zero to do with Shelton. I'm sure that DJ understands there is zero significance in trying to do a report card on a rookie in his first two starts.

But he's kind of painted himself in a corner on this point.

Oh I am not saying he is setting the world on fire. He like all rookies still has a lot to learn. I counted 5 times he was not double teamed and he was in on the tackle in 2 of those 5.

I am going to step back at this time ( lol ) But I will be Watching ////

Oh look, another personalized "argument". Nice try. The win probability blunder still stings I guess.

Anyway, sorry, but no. Unlike you and many others, I don't go by hindsight. I was against drafting Shelton well before the draft based on what I saw from him in college. I explained why at length, it's in the archives. Now, I'm seeing more of the same issues. The stats merely reflect what I see.

The playing time is simple. Players that play less have less opportunities to impact the game. Thus they hold less value. Not that difficult.

Nah, when you refuse to factor in momentum and they had scored 14 unanswered points, there's no real stinger to have stung me with.

I'll stand by my posts. You can use many successful NFL players and based on their first two games, make them look terrible. even though Shelton hasn't played terribly. It's a non issue and you know it.

What happened to Farmer's very first draft selection???...

Trying to find some for ya .. So far they are showing

Total T solo T assist T sacks

Danny Shelton 6 3 3 0.0

That's for two games

Shelton wasn't drafted to make a lot of tackles but to take up a lot of blockers so our LB's could make a lot of tackles ... I think he has and will do that ... JMHO

I am just aiming the fan on the paint in hopes that it dries faster

With all due respect. Who is any poster on this board to demand Farmer use draft picks to build a winning football team?

And I know! I complain too.

Edit: And to say again, " The time to re sign../ extend.. Pettine and Farmer is NOW!" Are you listening Mr Haslem?

Hey, we are .500 against two teams that went a combined 6 and 26 last year.

I'm gonna call The Big Show and see if he can get me some playoff tickets.

Not 20+ years since a 133 rating, the local paper said it was the best since Derek Anderson had a 140 rating. If I remember correctly what I read a couple days ago.

E'er body knows D.A. played around 2006-2009ish. "the highest since Derek Anderson's 140.3 in 2007"

The thing nobody remembers about D.A. in 07, is the number of times he Qb'd a game with 7 scoring drives by the offense. That's unheard of, and another thing, they had to win 5 tough qualifers to be alive in the playoff hunt that year in order to be set up for that devastating loss in the 2nd Cincinnati Game, but all anyone ever wants to talk about is the let down of the 2nd Cinncinnati game and what followed.

D.A. had a revenge mode, when really "ticked" off, he could take over a game, and honestly it's one of the top two best forces the Browns have demonstrated since the return in 99, (the other being Tim Couch on a good day, pre elbow injury)
The thing back then was, Tim Couch on his best was a 8 or so, but at his worst was , terrible like a 3-4.3, but Holcombe fluctuated between about a 5 and a 7, which made it so hard to explain who should really be in there Couch or Holcombe. On a given day it mattered who was about to have a good or bad day.

Agreed. Shelton is supposed to eat up interior linemen while the LBs do their job in close with and destroying the RB. As long as he's taking up space, Shelton is doing his job. The problem lies with our mediocre LBs.

Well I see now .. After 50 some years of watching football I have it all wrong .. So it's " OK "if your Nose Tackle gets blown off the Line of Scrimmage as long as it takes two men to do it .. And it's " OK " if you used the #12 pick in the FIRST ROUND to get him !!!

Look , I think the kid is cool , love his personality and big smile and hustle .. He is a Rook and only two games into his career , got it ! .. Do your selves a favor and go back and watch the defensive series in the game..

Please Haslam please don't let Farmer ruin our first overall pick next year PLEASE! Or should I say ruin a whole other draft. I know it's going to be hard to find anyone good to come to this clown organization, but it can't get worse. Move on and fire this bum!

Except that job comes with a very important caveat. That's not to get pushed back. No one cares if you're taking space if that space is clogging up the linebackers.

That said, he's a rookie. Certainly intrigued by him as a rookie, but he still needs to get better.