DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pet on the QB Situation

I think that even with us playing like we did yesterday, we have a legitimate shot against Chargers, Ravens, Rams, Steelers, 49ers... maybe Chiefs.

We played like utter crap, and the defense should be afraid to show their faces in public and they seriously need to apologize to their families - they were an embarrassment to themselves, their ancestors, and their offspring.... but, even so, I think we have a good chance against those teams with this squad playing like it did.

and I thought I was an optimist.

we might as well put Manziel in because it worked so well for:

Couch
McCoy
Quinn
Weeden
Frye
Luke McCown
Spergon Wynn


Well the 7th time has to be the charm

I have been a Browns fan for 50 years and in my opinion we will not win any more than 3 games. It is hard to give up the ship this early in the season, however, after yesterday's performance I do not see much reason for hope. Pettine had the runaway train look in his press conference yesterday.There does not seem to be a feeling of confidence from the front office to the players. Not since 2007 have we as Browns fans had anything real to cheer about and that is very depressing.

This may be the earliest i ever start obsessing over mock drafts. And past ones.

I don't like doing this......but that is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

You know you aren't going to win and go w/the journeyman over a young player????? WTF?

LOL.......good point. I love Dj, but he does tend to exaggerate.

They can start listening to fat, old, overweight arm-chair QBs and internet board "experts" instead of the professionals and players inside the building.

That's unforgivable.



I'm not okay with perennial losing and certainly McCown is no stud, but if we're going to lose anyway we might as well go down while at least doing it the right way.



I want wins, but those aren't coming this year. We're a 2-3 win team IMO and I've thought that since the spring. The choice is a guaranteed losing season with a professional like McCown or a guaranteed losing season with the immature/selfish/arrogant/unprofessional Johnny.

And yes, I think McCown gives us the best chance to win.



Which is more than Johnny checks.

Look...they both suck. Neither will be here next year IMO.

And who the hell are you?

This is a freaking message board. We discuss the Browns on here.

Get off your high freaking horse and take a pill. Jesus, you sound like a grumpy old man. It's discussion. You really believe they are going to listen to us?

I heard Pettine actually blame McCowns throws on the wind...that tells me all I need to know about Pettine. He isn't HC material. He can't handle personnel decision. He actually most of the presser seemed like he was blaming the receivers...yeah the receivers sitting there wide open and have the ball behind at their feet or over their head are their fault. In fact he didn't really say anything negative about McCown. That pretty much tells me he's hitched his wagon to McCown and is going down with that ship.

What's funnier is he thinks there are professionals inside that building...when were they going to bring them out

My last word on Pet and the QB....I think his next decision in that regard will either make him or break him.

So you don't want Manziel to play because you personally don't like him.

Got it.

Thankfully, OF COURSE I don't. Unfortunately with the temper tantrums I see being thrown around here on Sunday and today I think most of the people think they SHOULD! It's crazy.

I don't see what's so surprising. The team looks like crap. In our weakest opponent three game stretch we came out of it 1-2. We're playing a 36 year old QB who has zero possibility of ever being our answer at QB. The O looks inept, the D looks putrid and everything the coaching staff told us we were going to do, ( run the ball, minimize the QB position and stop the run ), we simply can't do.

I guess they should all be in a festive mood and believe in this FO and coaching staff? Oh the horror of it all.

While I make no bones that I really dislike the man, that has nothing to do with it. It just adds to the pile.

If he was the better QB I'd want him to play. He's not.

If he was a consummate professional and thought he could actually eventually progress into a starting caliber NFL QB then I could see the reasoning behind wanting him to get the reps. He isn't.

Why reward the guy who doesn't do his job the right way? That sets an awful precedent and is how losing and divisive cultures are established. I'll pass thanks and would rather take my lumps (which I openly admit will come) with the guy who at least takes his job seriously and acts like a leader and a pro for all the other guys out there with him.

I'd much rather have somebody besides McCown (hello, Austin Davis)....but it is what it is at this point.

j/c..

It's obvious to others on the national level as well that it is futile continuing to play McCown as well. My prediction is that Pettine will continue to toil away with McCown for another 5 or 6 games. When the things have really bottomed out, he'll toss in Manziel when most on the team have all but thrown in the towel on the season.


If the Browns are going to lose, why not do it with Johnny Manziel?

CLEVELAND — The “JOHNNY! JOHNNY!” chants aren’t going to quiet any time soon.

A week after Johnny Manziel energized all of Cleveland with a rare victory, Josh McCown did little to validate the decision to make him the starter over the NFL’s current cult hero. Sure, McCown threw for two scores in the second half, including a 4-yarder to Travis Benjamin that pulled the Cleveland Browns within a touchdown of the Oakland Raiders with 6:28 left to play.

But his fifth sack of the day stalled a potential game-tying drive, and he ended it on the next play by throwing a pick to Raiders safety Charles Woodson. The only saving grace was that a good portion of the fans didn’t stick around to see it, the guy who repeatedly flashed Manziel’s “Money” sign being an exception.

“There were Johnny chants?” McCown asked facetiously after the 27-20 loss to the Oakland Raiders. “Like I said Wednesday, I understand the situation I’m in and it’s part of it. He’s an exciting young player that I know people want to see play. I understand that.

“For me, I have to focus on where we are. We had our own problems and own issues just trying to move the ball.”

Therein lies the problem. The NFL is a win-now league, and Browns coach Mike Pettine went with McCown because he believes the veteran gives Cleveland the best chance to do that. As tantalizing as Manziel’s arm strength and scrambling ability are, the Browns don’t quite trust his ability to fully operate the offense. Or handle everything else that comes with being the franchise quarterback, for that matter.

But the Browns are not a win-now team.

Oakland came into the game having lost 11 in a row on the road, and 16 consecutive in the Eastern time zone. Yet Cleveland’s offensive line was repeatedly pushed around by a Raiders defense that didn’t have a sack in the first two games. The Browns’ run game was non-existent, with Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson combining for a whopping 39 yards on 14 carries.

The defense gave up 100-yard days to both Latavius Murray (139 yards on 26 carries) and Amari Cooper (134 yards on eight catches). And special teams were simply abysmal, with Benjamin muffing a punt and a roughing-the-kicker call leading to Oakland’s first touchdown.

With five of the next seven games on the road, and Denver and Arizona the opponents for the two home games, Cleveland has little hope of making a playoff run. And by little I mean none.

That’s not a slam against McCown, because that’s going to be the case no matter if it’s he or Manziel at quarterback. But if the Browns are going to be bad, they may as well see what Manziel’s got. At least that way they get something out of what is shaping up to be another lost season.

“No, none,” Pettine said when asked if he had any thoughts of playing Manziel after the Browns fell behind 10-0. “You can’t put a player in a situation where he feels like he’s playing with a short leash. Then it just becomes self-fulfilling.”

Manziel has not exactly impressed in his still-young NFL career. He was woefully unprepared in his two starts last year, and his off-the-field partying fueled doubts that he could carry a franchise desperate for success.

But after spending a first-round pick on him, the Browns have to determine if Manziel can be their long-term solution at quarterback. And they can’t do that based on his ability to carry a clipboard.

Play Manziel and let him show he’s got the goods to be the starter. If so, then the Browns can use the draft and free agency to build around him, much like the Raiders are doing with Derek Carr. If not, then at least the Browns can cut their losses and move on now rather than dragging it out for another year or two.

It’s a question of when, not if, Cleveland turns to Manziel this season. By putting off the inevitable, the Browns only hurt themselves.

Article

If the coaching staff actually believes that McCown gives the team a better chance to win, then there is no way Manziel is going to start until we are all the way out of it.

I'm certainly not surprised by that. This team stinks. Getting angry about it and calling for the never-will-be backup QB is not going to fix anything though. Getting a real owner and FO, some people who draft better than a blind monkey and finally establishing some continuity and identity over time WILL though. Oh and bring back Shanahan and Hoyer while we're at it (but I digress).



Well I thought we'd win 2-3 games this year so I'd say we're right on pace.



This is true. But it was also true in April. Nothing to see here.



Paging Kyle Shanahan...Kyle Shanahan line 1? I agree.



Now THIS I agree with. Very disheartening. Puts some doubt in my head about Pettine and his staff and that's not a good thing b/c we NEED to see them through for about 5+ years. For better or worse.



Nah, hang up the Factory of Sadness flags, mute the announcers and crank up the Benny Hill music. It's the only way to actually enjoy this franchise on Sundays.

Even if you don't think Manziel will be a good QB, you at least have to find out what you have.

Right now is not the time (according the coaches).

Yep.

Look at Chud, and the idiotic way he was fired after being handed a deck full of nothing. He went to Indy as an offensive assistant. Rarely does a young coach fail (under any circumstances) as a head coach, and get a 2nd chance anywhere for a long, long time. We had an exception in Mangini ..... but that was a real exception.

If Pettine were to be fired here, for any reasons, he would probably go back to defensive coordinator. Heck, even the Bills head coach from last year left after doing a good job with the Bills, and is a defensive assistant, or coordinator this year. He didn't get a head coaching gig either.

If Pettine were playing a game like that, he would be an idiot ..... and he doesn't strike me as an idiot.

That was last year. Are we still holding last year against him?

Are there any reports anywhere that state he is the same guy as last year? Any reports still questioning his work ethic?

I haven't seen any.

It's amazing really, the guy who threw a TD to seal the game is the pariah and not doing his job.

The guy who throws the pick to end the game and is a proven perennial loser is what is best for this team moving forward.

It's the bizarro world.

Graff is letting a personal dislike for Manziel get in the way of rational thinking.

He doesn't even know he's doing it.

Or he does and doesn't care.

Maybe he's really Joe Thomas.

Now that is funny stuff .

For the record, I'm all for Manziel to be the starter since the guy has returned from rehab and taken it seriously. The guy does not have a negative report about him. I'd much rather a young guy with a higher ceiling playing now. Think about it. If we are washing out this season with McCown and Manziel is to start next year then what? We are going to see if he's (Manziel) Cleveland's Romeo on another potential washed season next year? Just play the kid and be done with it. If he sucks then draft a legitimate QB with position from this season.

Johnny Manziel not being considered for start vs. Chargers despite Josh McCown's loss to Raiders

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

-I don't think anyone is surprised (sighs).

So, after Week 3, the rest of the Cleveland Browns 2015 season should be all about "seeing what we have" with Johnny Manziel? Just forget all about developing the TEAM? I know I'm laying the hyperbole on a little thick, but let's go forward with this line of thinking:

Tell the team that this season is hopeless and that we aren't going to concern ourselves with actually winning, but instead seeing what Johhny can do. If we get a W, great, if not, no big deal because as was stated, we didn't expect to win anyway.

For argument's sake, let's say Johnny does pretty well, at least enough that it looks like he'll be the starter heading in to 2016. Do you honestly think that other players will be just so excited, so enamored by that, that they will flock to Cleveland, will do anything to stay if they are already here, just for the chance to play with him? Do you think Johhny starting in 2016 will make up for a FO and coaching staff that said to hell with their commitment to trying to win?

Frankly, this argument that McCown isn't going to lead us to the playoffs anyway is nothing but a strawman. Not a single person said he would, and no one was talking playoffs this preseason. The only people putting that idea forward are people who have been trying to artificially create a higher expected standard for McCown so that they can turn around and say he sucks and justify their belief that Manziel should be playing.

Look man, if you (or anyone) can explain to me how "seeing what we have" makes us more competitive THIS YEAR, I'll change my view point. But here's how I'm seeing it: The Bengals have the hot hand, but it still has yet to be determined if they are for real. The Ravens are in a bigger hole than we are, and the Steelers despite their win, will be VERY lucky to be at .500 when Big Ben gets back. If the Browns come out this week and play like they are capable of playing, we're at 2-2. McCown certainly could have had a better game, but he wasn't the sole reason we lost. I just think when you're one game out from .500 it sends a bad message to give up on the season.

J/C

Take this for what it's worth from TMZ Sports. They might just be trying to stir the pot but it's possible this is legit.

Furious Over Johnny Manziel
'Put Him In the Damn Game'

9/29/2015 12:45 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
EXCLUSIVE

It's not just the Browns fans who want Johnny Manziel to start at QB -- several Cleveland players are also calling for #2 ... telling TMZ Sports it's "f**ked up" he's still riding the bench.
We spoke with 3 starting players on the Browns offense -- all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity -- who tell us the team wants Manziel under center on Sunday ... not Josh McCown.
One player who admits he's extremely frustrated with the QB situation says, "I love both Johnny and Josh but its f**ked up when you have Johnny come in and play well and has proven to the team that he is the right person for the job."
"It’s frustrating to him and us when you sit a player down when he is playing well. Coach has got to understand you are messing up the chemistry and timing with players and its f**ked up."
Another player tells us, "The team plays better when [Manziel] is in the game. I play better when he plays."
"You can’t get better unless you play. We won when he played and coach has got to trust him like he trusts Josh."
A 3rd player added, "When Johnny in the game it puts the defense on edge. He doesn’t just sit in the pocket, he makes plays. Coach has got to make the change now."
As for McCown, now that's he's 0-2 as the starter ... he says he "understands" why fans want to see Manziel, but insists he's still the right man for the job. Now, it seems he's gonna have to convince his teammates too.


Read more: TMZ Link

If that's true, my guess is Benji is one of those players.

I mentioned in the post game thread how the team came out flat and looked like they did when Manziel got the call last year in the Cincy game, only this time it was McCown at QB.

This is certainly an interesting....


Cleveland Browns Players
Furious Over Johnny Manziel
'Put Him In the Damn Game'
9/29/2015 12:45 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

EXCLUSIVE
It's not just the Browns fans who want Johnny Manziel to start at QB -- several Cleveland players are also calling for #2 ... telling TMZ Sports it's "[effed] up" he's still riding the bench.
We spoke with 3 starting players on the Browns offense -- all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity -- who tell us the team wants Manziel under center on Sunday ... not Josh McCown.
One player who admits he's extremely frustrated with the QB situation says, "I love both Johnny and Josh but its [effed] up when you have Johnny come in and play well and has proven to the team that he is the right person for the job."
"It’s frustrating to him and us when you sit a player down when he is playing well. Coach has got to understand you are messing up the chemistry and timing with players and its [effed] up."
Another player tells us, "The team plays better when [Manziel] is in the game. I play better when he plays."
"You can’t get better unless you play. We won when he played and coach has got to trust him like he trusts Josh."
A 3rd player added, "When Johnny in the game it puts the defense on edge. He doesn’t just sit in the pocket, he makes plays. Coach has got to make the change now."
As for McCown, now that's he's 0-2 as the starter ... he says he "understands" why fans want to see Manziel, but insists he's still the right man for the job. Now, it seems he's gonna have to convince his teammates too.

Link

If this is true it's damning evidence Pettin has no idea what he is doing and the team is quickly losing respect for him.

There needs to be a memo sent to this organization, "stop using the phrase Play Like a Brown, immediately"...

Unless you alter the meaning of what it means.

Don't get me wrong, I want to roll with Johnny, but that article sounds made up to me.

And if it's not, then I wonder who the quoted players are.

We already know Pettine has no idea what he's doing by the way his team plays. And neither coordinator does as well. Pettine needs an advisor in the worst way. He surrounded himself with drinking buddies, no one knows what they are doing, and they have no one to turn to.

We need an assistant head coach, who has been a head coach, in the worst way. Pettine is just so lost its really disappointing. The players know this as well and well, you get the effort you saw on Sunday.

One of the most ill advised ideas of the last twenty years next to the flowbee.

TMZ has a pretty good track record for NOT making things up.

Yes the hyperbole was a bit thick. I'll try and keep up.

The craptastic effort put out by the team was appalling. The offense and defense was horrid. Mack is gone at the end of the season and he's playing like he's already gone. JT is starting to slow and Haden I wondered if he dyed his hair red because he getting beat like a red headed step child, by a rookie. Do you really think a win here or there is going to satisfy these guys? Do you really see fire in their bellies or are they just getting a paycheck until they get their chance to follow Skrine out the door?

The hope and change the management promised us for this season is already a joke. We still can't stop the run, we still can't run and our 36 year old vet qb was over-throwing or throwing behind his targets on most of his attempts. Hell, the pass he had to have to keep our final drive alive he threw off his back foot for an int. Thank goodness we have McCown!

I (and many others) would rather know this season if Johnny is the answer and not go into another draft wondering if he may be. Screw the playoffs, if we could get to a winning season with McCown I'd be all in favor of it. So tell me who are the other 8 teams we're going to beat to get there? I put up the schedule, who are the 8 chumps that will lay down for us?

So if we're all convinced now we're not going to have a winning season, we might as well put down the "best chance to win" concept since those chances are at best slim, and get our first round QB some experience to see what he can really bring, to see if he really can be a real starting NFL QB. We already know we have a career backup.

But if 3 to 5 wins is good enough for you to keep McCown in there, you should be happy, it appears Pettine agrees.

Exactly, hell, TMZ were the one's that broke the truth behind the Ray Rice story.

For the sake of fairness.....this team's a mess.

Andrew Hawkins Verified account
@Hawk Andrew Hawkins Retweeted TMZ
This story is %1000 made up. Andrew Hawkins added,
TMZ @TMZ
Cleveland Browns Players -- Furious Over Johnny Manziel ... 'Put Him In the Damn Game' http://dlvr.it/CHzh1T