DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign QB Davis to 2-year Extension

I would certainly expect that before his suspension Farmer left an agreed upon list of priorities, things-in-progress, things-to-do, "what-if" scenarios, etc. I do not believe that there is anything nefarious about these moves...

Another thing I found a little strange was how the Browns left Pettine out there on an island to be the "face of the franchise" while Farmer was on suspension. Why should Pettine be answering questions about the qualifications of front office people making personnel moves? In the meantime, I've not heard or seen anything from Haslam or Shiner since the season began.

It does seem like something's going on.

Do you really think Farmer is not in the the loop?

Pettine was the face of the franchise before the suspension of Farmer, why would it change now?

Yeah, I know, but he was not point man on front office moves.

I don't think Farmer is back next year ... JMO

I'm really thinking this too.

He'd have to be even dumber than we ever though for this to be the case. Unless by "in the loop" you meant that he knew this move was going to happen anyway.

Farmer goes, Pettine has to go too.

Question for someone you more in-depth guys.

What is with this kid?
What are his attributes that made them have their eye on him for so long?
Does he really have the ability to be a starter, or at least a solid backup, not just a number 3?

Why? Mike relayed to Farmer's team the scheme he'll run and the type of person / attributes needed.

From there, it goes to Farmer and his scouting team which has brought us failures and poor attitude people like JF and Justin Gilbert and, virtually worthless free agents like Bowe and Housler. I doubt Mike submitted the draft selection cards... I doubt he pulled the trigger on Bowe.

Yep no doubt about that

I agree a new GM has to be allowed to hire his own coach. I don't get the feeling it will end Pettine's world to lose this job - I don't think he's coaching "scared". I do have the feeling that there is friction between him and Farmer, and that he is fighting back behind the scenes. But with two years left on his contract after this year (plus a one year team option) at what we would assume is near league average HC salary ($4.8M/yr), Mike shouldn't have a care in the world. That is a very nice safety net. I like Mike, but I'm not sure it would represent a major setback for the team to fire / lose him. As far as other qualified GMs and HC candidates not wanting to come here, I call BS. Its about the Benjamins. Once and for all - finally - we need to find an experienced, top of the line GM who will then choose his Head Coach. Its what should have happened in 1999, but didn't and hasn't since the return.

I read some quotes from Davis yesterday that he felt like the contract signaled opportunity - as in opportunity to play. This tells me they've been filling his head behind the scenes.

Let's get this out of the way about the contract. The contract extension was part of the original agreement to get Davis to come here. So it was always going to happen. But I found his quote very telling.

I think Pettine has already written Manziel off. One of those two will not be on the team after this year. Maybe the soap opera is enough reason to tune in every week. The football they put on the field certainly isn't.

It is just as likely that this was one item that farmer had as a goal before his suspension, and his team in the front office, as they should, worked on the things he told them to work on before he was suspended. Farmer likely does not personally negotiate these types of contracts, if he negotiates any of them himself, so his not being involved would probably be a huge non-factor.

I am quite sure that the NFL is watching the Browns as closely as they can regarding Farmer. I am further quite sure that if they have any evidence that he has had illegal contact with the team, they will take severe measures. Signing the 3rd string QB to an extension right now, while the controlled him through th end of the year anyway, would be senseless, if Farmer were somehow involved. I think that all involved are far smarter than that.

The Browns are set up with the GM and Head Coach being parallel positions. The GM is not over the Head Coach, but rather both positions report to Haslam.

Under Banner, he was the authority. Everyone reported to him. He wanted the assistant coaches and coordinators to report directly to him as well. Anyway, since Banner was the de facto GM, we had a somewhat more traditional front office structure. In that structure, the GM hired the Head Coach. That is n longer the case, at least according to Haslam, back when he fired Haslam and Lombardi, and promoted Farmer.

My understanding is that Farmer has final say over the 53 man roster. Am I wrong about that? If I'm not, then they do not have parallel powers. Pettine is at Farmer's mercy regarding available roster talent.

I think this whole Farmer suspension is a charade. Yea, Ray isn't officially in the office.

Bill Kuharich is Ray's long time friend and mentor. Hard for me to believe Bill and Ray are not communicating, equally hard believing the NFL is tightly monitoring, and Jimmy, with his scruples running Flying J, is following orders dictated by league! Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Yes, Farmer has final say on the 53, and Pettine decides who is active on game days. That is the delineation of powers.

They also work together on the 53. I am willing to bet that the majority of the roster is easy, and perhaps 2-3 spots might be a little bit contentious. On those differences, Farmer has the final say.

I guess powers was the wrong word. They have parallel positions. Neither is above the other, and neither can fire the other. (at least not directly)

You are correct. Farmer oversees 53 man roster. Pettine is responsible for who plays. Both report directly to Haslam.

I like the approach both held accountable. It is open to sabotage by the other. It boils down to who Haslam favors most. From my observation, it appears both given the task to step up their game. Pettine getting his coaching staff in check. Farmer needing improvement in the draft. Both went different directions then they did the first year. I haven't seen evidence Pettine and Farmer are at odds or best of partners.

I would like to add...

Unless Haslam has a real issue with either Ray or Mike I don't see any change soon. Haslam wants control. It is why he ditched Banner hiring two newbies. Having two rookies also means it will be a rocky start with slow development. Having rookies also means you mold from the start how you want things run. Haslam knows this running Flying J.

In addition to Pettine being responsible for who plays, he's also responsible for actually coaching these guys.

It's one thing to watch a team and see them get beat because they lack talent. It's another to watch and see them get beat because they miss assignments, they miss tackles, they look unprepared, and they are devoid of any emotion or fire. Furthermore, Pettine's long-term plan for his team is to have Josh McCown be his starter.

Farmer's issues are well documented and it's easier to point a finger at him. It's a little more black and white with Farmer. But it just may be possible Pettine is worse than Farmer. He ran a cupcake camp and didn't prepare his team for the season. He hired his drinking buddies as coordinators. The product on the field reflects his and their coaching.

I am the king of the stability drum. I am not advocating starting over or firing either guy. I would like them both to get their heads out of their butts and do better. Josh McCown as your starting QB is not a plan. Being afraid to make your veterans upset with you is not a plan and a sign of weak leadership. Drafting a backup center with your first round pick is not a plan. Signing an extension for a 3rd string QB is not a plan. What the hell is going on in Berea?

If the Browns lose on Sunday and it's ugly, it's going to start getting really ugly for Pettine. He already knows he's in way over his head. His body language and tone in pressers has him on the defensive. He looks and acts broken. He probably has no idea what he's doing wrong and how to fix it. He actually thinks he's going about things the right way. He doesn't strike me as a problem solver. "Just keep chipping away and it will get better." LOL. This is a thinking man's game. A game of chess and strategy. It's not just going to magically happen because you want it to.

The whole of Berea needs to get their heads out of their butts.

I disagree.

Assuming Haslam made the call drafting Manziel. I think the three defined roles and pushed restart beginning of this season. I think as a unit they blew a chance fixing the QB position last year.

To fix, I think they made a list of QBs they wanted. Farmer attempted to get. Josh simply was their option. I believe the three made a plan regarding Johnny.

I think both cases had much to do with the fallout of text-gate. Three made a pact and caring it out. Procedures are being written defining how changes in the plan are executed. As I stated earlier. All three are new and things will happen slowly at the start. I think we are simply seeing growing pains of a newly started company.

I hope you're right bugs.

What's discouraging is it is really difficult to SEE the plan unfolding before our eyes.

Your premise is speculation at best. As is mine. But again, that's the point. It's hard to tell from the actual evidence we are being presented what the plan is.

Are you being serious? I clearly gave two scenarios. One of them was the one you quoted and the other was that Farmer did know.

Man, the reading comprehension on here is awful.

It is no different than any other company. You only see the product it produces.

To me, I really think they jumped the gun last year not having a precise plan in place. I think they all meant well simply not executing as a unit. I believe they put processes in place and working it together.

Haslam knows change disrupts the workings. Reading reports about Flying J his corporate staff been together a long time. Haslam got a little too trusting. I think he lost control and wasn't letting it get that way again. It is why I think he cleaned house with Banner.

Banner is very smart. I wish Lehner had hired Banner instead of Big Money...errr....Big Show Holmgren. I think that is a better match than Haslam and Banner.

Speaking of reading comprehension.....

mac, what does your post have to do w/my post? I never once said anything about him being inept. What the hell is your point, other than to just be contrary?

I guess I don't have near the time you do sifting through everything written. My apologies oh great one.

Why? What have they done that tells you they are so smart?

Was it the texting episode? Was it their superior drafting skills? Was it how they treated the best OC this franchise has ever saw? Was it signing D. Bowe? Was it their great choice for the OL coach? Was it raising ticket prices by as much as 40 percent when the fan base has already been beaten up? Was it giving McCown big money? Perhaps, it was drafting a qb in the first round and moving up to get him and then planning not to play him for a couple of years?

And the crazy part is that I think you were serious when you said that.

Look, I don't know if Farmer was involved or not. That is why I listed it as a plausible scenario and then listed a completely opposite one.

What I do know is that I got one poster telling me I am crazy because I don't think Farmer is in the loop and another telling me I am crazy because I think he is in the loop.

Methinks you guys are loopy.

bugs, it was in the VERY SAME post as the one you quoted. It came right before the part you quoted.

Good God!!!

Most of us think you are crazy.

























It has nothing to do with Ray Farmer.

Yes, God is good great actually.

Sorry man, I missed it. I was caught skimming.

I thought it was a legit question. People do believe Farmer is at home sitting out his sentence like a good soldier. I simply wanted to know if you and I were on the same page.

It's alright, bugs.

I am just disappointed because I thought that was a good post that would spark some interesting conversations. Instead, I get: most of us think you are a crazy.

Whatever.

You are crazy! You followed the Browns for how long?

Part of it I think was that we jumped out to a early lead, allowing us to play the way we chose and stick to the plan. It also allowed the D to focus more on just making plays, not trying to create them.

The mindset and game plan when ahead is different than that when you are playing catch-up, which I am sure you are well aware of.

I don't really disregard some of the other possibilities brought up on this thread. But I believe your scenario is just as possible as the others.

I think you are right eo.. in short I think this team is mentally fragile. They seem to go from "we can win" to "here we go again" rather quickly.. and then have a very hard time going back the other way. Some teams, you can see it in their body language, even if they get behind they still carry themselves as if they EXPECT to come back and compete and/or win the game... we look like we kind of hope that happens but we don't really expect it to.

This team is definitely built to play with a lead. It is just not designed or equipped to be that quick strike team that can play from behind on a regular basis. We want to get the lead and then try to stifle the opponent while burning the clock.

Hopefully, the QB situation improves sooner rather than later to allow us to take a more aggressive stance offensively.