DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Continuity---Take Two

Really? Pet would still have time, but those moves aren't all that important. Look at the comments being made about most of those moves.....mostly a yawn.

Uhmmm..............does anyone want to address this?

I have addressed it, I'd rather keep Pet and get rid of Farmer if we make any moves.

well i guess right now its get rid of both. things could change by the end of the year i guess.

farmer is a snake as far as i think. i just could not see any coach doing good with him as a GM. i dont really want to bring draft picks into it because i think its to soon to tell but as far as FAs let go and brourt in i would say he is a poor talent evaluator on top of it.

pettine? well i said it after textgate. i think he is a weak coach. not only did he not protect his coaching staff from farmer but he let players walk all over him last year being late to meeting and practice, halfass practice when they did show up.

i will say one more thing. if one is still here at the end of the year it will be farmer. the simple fact is that pettine looks real bad about devoloping young talent.

No... and no.
This time you're 0-2, Vers.

No #1: you didn't get my point.
Bonefish said: "The thing about facts are they can not be lies. The fact that Farmer has to be fired is a decision that Haslam can not run from."

And I corrected him, much as you would, being a teacher. Bone didn't cite a fact. He cited his OPINION about what Haslam should do, but he stated it as FACT.

Opinions are not facts.

On top of that, please take note that I didn't challenge a single other thing he wrote in that post.
Wanna know why?

BECAUSE I TOOK NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER WITH THE OPINIONS HE GAVE in the body of his post. He's entitled to feel as he does. And there was lots that he said that I couldn't argue with.

And that's why they are not mentioned in my response to him.


No #2: I'm not upset at anyone who feels differently than I.
I might find myself on the opposite sides of an issue with another poster, but that doesn't mean that I feel attacked, defensive or threatened if I read a dissenting viewpoint. And it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that I ever feel the need to attack him. After all, we post on a site devoted to sharing opinions. I accepted that fact when I joined the game.

Vers: I've told you repeatedly that I don't join teams, and I don't take sides. Time and again, I've been forced to define my position to you because you seem to project on me some agenda that I don't really have. This is yet another of those examples.

Yes, I believe that continuity should be tried for more than 2-3 years. Yes, I'm distressed that the Browns have been in a perpetual state of flux for 15 years. Yes, I'd like to see Haslam give the current group more time than 2 years together to build something. But you totally misread my response to Bonefish... and projected your own interpretation of my motives onto the words that I typed.

My Friend... that's totally on you.
You have to own this one. Not me OR Bone.

I'm surprised that the teacher in you didn't detect the teacher in me when you read my post. When jfanent encouraged you to re-read my post, did you? Or did you simply respond to him, saying, "I know what he meant..."

???

______________________

My first impulse was to clear this up in a PM, like I've done before. But dang, Dawg... you freakkin' called me out in the public thread using the exact same tactic that you asked us all to refrain from.

So here I am, burning up minutes of my life (and unnecessary site bandwidth) to explain myself to you (yet again)... just to keep my public reputation intact.
How many times must we do this dance before you truly SEE me for who I am?

____________________


Dawg, we've always shared a mutual 'respect.' You've said many times that you've enjoyed my posts for being well-thought and well-presented. You've even called me "intelligent, "articulate," and "well-spoken."

In our very first one-to-one conversation on the old board, I remember you saying: "You debate well." That was over 10 years ago. I remembered it, because it was one of the first affirmations that I ever got as a poster on this forum... and it came from one of the Original Browns Community's 'Big Dawgs.' That response meant a lot to me... and it was central to my decision to keep posting more.

But it has come at a price. That price: For some reason, I have to explain, define, and defend myself to you at least 4-6 times per year... even though we've read each other's stuff for more than 12 years.

In my 59 years of life, I've come to understand and accept the FACT that "some friends require more work than others." I dig and respect you bro.... but you can sometimes wear a brother out. You took me dangerously close to that point with your latest 'challenge' of what I wrote. I guess I need to still work harder for you to 'get' me.

_________________

...and now, I'm guilty of hijacking the thread with a personal slant/rant... in a (formerly) really great 'Pure Football' thread.



Silly me. Maybe I'm not as intelligent as either of us thinks I am.
Nicely played, Vers.
Touché.


My sincere apologies to all the posters who have actually followed the thread's guidelines.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We now return you to our regularly scheduled broadcast: "Continuity---Take Two."

Goodness.

I clearly stated that opinions were welcome on this thread. I clearly stated that there were no definitive answers at this point in time. You really haven't weighed in w/much insight, but chose to correct an opinion that was stated as a fact. I am pretty sure eotab stated some things as fact when they were clearly opinions. I didn't correct either guy because I was SEARCHING for opinions and not trying to limit them.

Y'all can have the thread now. It's done.

OK, lets get back on track.



I guess I'd be in one of the top 2 option groups.
-Keep everyone because continuity is the best option.

--Fire Farmer and keep Pet, because our talent is poor and while Pet has made mistakes, it's easier to grow as a coach.

But with the qualifier that if they choose to replace Farmer, it should not be for another unknown. I would prefer to get someone with a track record of at least some success.

There is one you seem to have forgotten. Keep both to give them the time to either prove they are good, or to prove they are bums. You Conveniently forgot that one.

That is not an option... because we MUST change... Change works.

Purple ???

Time was where people could recognize sarcasm on this board. I know. I was one of the most sarcastic posters around.

I really hate the whole "sarcasm must be in purple" idea some have. The best sarcasm is understated enough to make the reader wonder ........ and after all, that's the point.

What an awesome post!

And we thank you tenfold for this permission.

continuity...is that the problem or the solution?

Well he did it right then !! Because I had to read it twice!

Trust me I get sarcasm -- but the written word and sarcasm (any written humor) can be be easily misread/misunderstood.

j/c

Is one year and six games long enough time to even debate the concept of "continuity"?

I say that short time frame is in knee-jerk territory and not yet ripe enough for continuity debate.

I'll consider continuity after the second complete year...if they get that far.

Finding a QB is nearly impossible unless you have a very high draft pick (we all know this). The best we can hope for is finding a guy who just doesn't stink. I have said it a million times, but I'd be all over Jay Cutler.

Yeah.. high.. like.. 11.. or 18.. or REALLY high.. like 35!

Could not have stated it better. This is EXACTLY what needs to happen.

If we want a guy who is a game changer right away we will not get him later in the draft. I believe that's what the poster was talking about.

Can good QBs be found later in the draft? Yes. Is it rare? Yes.

Mmmm

"and he has been working hard on it" Sounds like you know Farmer personally GM from that statement. Not being a smart a** here but could you enlighten us all as to how he has been "working hard" on it since you know him and know that he has?

I'm just looking for a reason to have hope! Thanks

pretty much the way I see it, too.

It's like we are programmed to destruct every 2 years...

This is not true. GMs usually luck into guys (whether it is finding Brady in the sixth round or getting hired when your team has the #1 pick).



Mettenberger was not good last year. He threw one more TD than INT and completed less than 60% of his passes. He also had an adjusted INT rate of 5% (that is really bad).

I do question whether he is better than that though. Whisenhunt is a horrible, horrible head coach (3-18 so far with the Titans, 48-69 overall) and I think any player would do better with a different head coach.

I don't know.

Drew Brees - If not for Rivers and shoulder injury, he might have remained in San Diego. Instead, New Orleans takes a chance on him, and jhe takes them to the superbowl.

Brett Farve - Drafted by Atlanta, and by all accounts, Jerry Glanville wanted nothing to do with him. So he gets traded to GB the next year, and the rest is history.

Russel Wilson - 3rd round pick, and 2 years later wins a superbowl, and returns to the SB the following year as well.


All 3 had some form of luck involved IMO.

Oh... so we need a GM that hits on most of his draft picks, we need a coaching staff on the same page, and we need a QB.... if only we'd thought of that 15 years ago.

Brees only went to the Saints because the Dolphins passed on him.

I don't really remember the Favre trade, I do know that is rare that a team gives up on a second round pick after only one year.

Wilson was a third round pick. Taking a great QB that late takes a ton of luck. Every team passed on him multiple times. The Seahawks then tried to play Matt Flynn over him. Also, if the Seahawks knew what Wilson was going to be, they would have never let him fall to the third round.

You know all the questions, now who are you going to get that fits those requirements and is willing to come here to Cleveland? I would make sure I had better people lined up waiting to take over before you fire anyone.

The last time we had someone "lined up" we got Pat Shurmur. I guess you can say Lombardi was "lined up."

Key words "better people"

BROWNSY CONTINUITY