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I figured out the whole problem with our defense, dawgs! It's Andy Lee. If he wouldn't keep punting it so far, the other teams wouldn't have as far to go, thus less yards overall. Our running defense alone would improve by 50 yards per game if it wasn't for Andy Lee! Cut him NOW! Well that is a unique take... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The offense was responsible for at least 10 of the 24 pts the Rams scored.
I think Farmer has hurt the talent level of the defense w/stupid roster moves. Not paying Skrine was ignorant. He let Sheard walk. He made mind-boggling moves on the d-line.
The scheme hasn't been working that well. We crash our edge guys too much and put a lot of pressure on our corners. We have not generated a lot of pressure on the qbs. I think we are misusing guys like Kruger and Mingo.
So.......I guess I am saying there are multiple things at work here.
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I think Whit lays the wood on defense. He's very physical and he'll let you know about it, too. The problem is that he is the only guy like that.
I was hoping Shelton would add to that attitude, but he seems to be disappearing before our very eyes.
On offense, Duke Johnson seems to very scrappy. He is always jawing w/opposing players.
Did anyone notice when Duke was getting into it w/a few different Rams, that not one Brown came to his defense? We are so freaking passive.
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I think Whit lays the wood on defense. He's very physical and he'll let you know about it, too. The problem is that he is the only guy like that.
I was hoping Shelton would add to that attitude, but he seems to be disappearing before our very eyes.
On offense, Duke Johnson seems to very scrappy. He is always jawing w/opposing players.
Did anyone notice when Duke was getting into it w/a few different Rams, that not one Brown came to his defense? We are so freaking passive. Absolutely, and I've posted that! No commitment to your team/teammates...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I really like Duke's attitude.
Thomas and Haden don't appear to have those types of personalities and those are the guys the players look at to set the tone.
I agree with you. I wish we saw more of that. I like Duke for that reason although I am disappointed in his overall play. I thought, based on the way he was talked up, he would be a little more explosive with his touches.
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The Ugly is McCown did a post game presser.
That means no concussion.
That means he's likely starting next week.
He's Pett's guy.
#bestchancetowin I thought it was his shoulder that was banged up?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah. I thought he had more escapability, as well.
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Did anyone notice when Duke was getting into it w/a few different Rams, that not one Brown came to his defense? We are so freaking passive. This has always bugged me about our OL guys, going back to when James Harrison was delivering headshots to our guys regularly - Massaquoi, Cribbs, McCoy - not once did any of our big boys deliver so much as a shove at Harrison. I always read draft write-ups about O-linemen that say "has a mean streak" and I wish we had just one guy like that, but we seem to go for the cerebral, "gentle giant" types. Maybe instead of Bowe, we should have signed Incognito, LOL.
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When Colt McCoy got his head taken off by James Harrison
At a Thursday night game Joe Thomas did nothing
Didn't get in Harrisons face mask or anything.
Joe is too busy trying to be a nice guy for the sport
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We need to just turn this thread into the "Bad and Ugly" thread.
Bad: defense tackling. Nate Orchard. Our small, brittle little WRs who can't take a hit without coughing up the ball.
Ugly: game after game, the high number of penalties. We're so undisciplined, it's nothing short of a joke. The turnovers. Josh when he holds onto the ball forever. Just how this team operates and level of improvement shown, ugly.
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I think we are misusing guys like Kruger and Mingo. They do not run this defense, playing to the players strengths. They boasted about that being their philosophy, but they do the complete opposite. The misuse of the talent is killing them. I also agree that Sheard is missed. He used to push his side in pretty well. I think that's why Kruger got the sacks. Billy Winn
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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The good
Duke 90 yards
benji 4 receptions
3 barnidge.
4 defense allowing only 16 points without turnovers.
Bad turnover
THE ugly browns fans I feel your pain
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All Pro
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The browns had 10 men on the field on one of the rams scoring play.
Last edited by homer_brown; 10/26/15 09:43 PM.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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The browns had 10 men on the field on one of the rams scoring play.
Second time this season something like that has happened.
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All Pro
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We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Yeah.............depressing.
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The offense was responsible for at least 10 of the 24 pts the Rams scored.
I think Farmer has hurt the talent level of the defense w/stupid roster moves. Not paying Skrine was ignorant. He let Sheard walk. He made mind-boggling moves on the d-line.
The scheme hasn't been working that well. We crash our edge guys too much and put a lot of pressure on our corners. We have not generated a lot of pressure on the qbs. I think we are misusing guys like Kruger and Mingo.
So.......I guess I am saying there are multiple things at work here. One guy who I haven't seen mentioned yet is Kirksey. Getting Robertson back is going to be an upgrade. I constantly see Kirk with his head in the backfield while the RB is getting outside of him (also see Flacco's scramble a few weeks back). He doesn't shed blocks well at all, and it doesn't seem to take much to take him out of a play. I agree that Kruger and Mingo are being misused. I get that Mingo probably has the athletic ability to cover, but what he lacks in size, he sure as hell makes up for in speed. Making him run backward in to coverage negates that speed. I will say that Starks seemed to have a good game, got some good penetration. I think though, with the Rams having a rookie RT and RG, we should have had the talent and experience to constantly blow that side of the line up. And we didn't. I think Flip's play calling was rather stale and I kept wondering why we would run or throw a screen to Benji's side putting him in position to rum block... Benji has improved other areas of his game, but he's probably our worst run blocking WR.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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That is a pretty strong post.
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The Browns are 2-10 in the last twelve games. The teams they have beat: The Titans are 1-5 and the Ravens are 1-6.
The Rams game was more of the same. The Browns do not have the ability to take over a game. Not on offense, not on defense.
They were prepared game plan wise to stop Gurley. They did stop him except for a few plays. That happens when the runner is of that caliber.
Turnovers and penalties lost the game. The effort was there.
McCown is a tough guy and is playing better than expected. He is however, limited. He has a long slow release. Compound that with his tendency to hold the ball and it leads to problems.
Our running backs are very average. The OL is not as good as people believe. Run blocking is suspect.
The absence of playmakers on offense is obvious.
The defense played better against the Rams. Hard to win though when you turn the ball over like they did in this game.
The schedule from this point on looks brutal.
Haslam by seasons end will be in a melt down mode.
Change will be coming.
Us fans will go into the off season once again shell shocked.
Our days in the sun will be before the draft. We can all argue about who we should draft.
Haslam is the man in control of the team. It is in his court to make the Browns right.
If Haslam can not find someone that knows how to draft players and build a team there will be no answer to losing.
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Another excellent post. Thanks bone.
I doubt many people will recognize your excellent points, but I sure appreciate what you had to say. You made a lot of great points.
I appreciate guys like you and Devil who really offer some analysis instead of one-liners that are designed to feed one's own ego.
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Vers, we're in a tough spot.
The great fans of the Browns are really dependent upon their owner Mr. Jimmy Haslam.
Hard to understand anything about Haslam because all we have to go on is his limited exposure and his actions.
He strikes me as a person who is used to being a privileged person. Someone who wants things all his way. When born to wealth and power you assume power.
The NFL is a business, but it is unique. You can not buy a championship. Baseball you can almost buy a title. Football championships are won by organizations. If you build it right you can win it all.
Haslam is new to the game. The Mara's, Rooney's, and Brown's are second generation football families. Even though Haslam had exposure to the Rooney's he has much to learn.
Haslam has seen what strong football organizations look like.
He knows you have to get the right people and let them do their jobs. His problem is identifying the "right" people.
He was told by others that Farmer and Pettine would be good hires. Now he has to be questioning at least Farmer. Farmer can not hide from his results.
He hired both wanting and knowing that the team needed continuity. He is faced with a dilemma. Stick with Farmer for the sake of continuity and hope he gets things right? Or, recognize that Farmer was a mistake and look for "right" guy?
Then, if he replaces Farmer should the new GM have the option to bring in his own head coach?
Tough decision for a guy going into his third year of ownership.
We as fans can only hope that his decisions prove to be right.
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Good post, but I doubt Haslam gives a crap about continuity. It's all about PR with Farmer. He looks bad if he would have fired them last offseason and probably will still take some PR hits for it if he does this offseason.
Farmer could also reveal that it was him dictating the Manziel pick and I wouldn't doubt a second that Farmer would tell the world about the homeless guy story, after all, we're talking about GM Textgate here. How would Haslam look then?
Maybe I'm going too far with this, but I think Farmer really has something in his hands to hold against Jimmy with regards to PR. Would be so Browns, wouldn't it?
Last edited by DjangoBrown; 10/28/15 03:08 PM.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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There is no doubt that Haslam will take PR shots. He is going to get them no matter what he does.
Farmer in my opinion will take the high road if he is fired. He is young man with a career ahead of him. If he becomes a whistleblower he will never get another NFL job.
If the team ends up with under seven wins (which seems almost guaranteed) somebody will be looking for work and the most likely guy is Farmer.
Just like any NFL franchise we are at the mercy of ownership. At the end of the day all we can do is hope that Haslam learns how to run a NFL team.
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If he is fired, there is no way that Farmer would ever again get a GM job. He'll probably get a job, but not as a GM.
He's been way too horrible for that to happen.
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If he's no good for others in the role in future, then he's no good for us now.
Wonder if it is on the cards if Haslam pulls the trigger before seasons end. How would that affect FA, and draft prep. Fun times ahead. *sigh*
#gmstrong
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I really have no idea what Haslam is going to do.
He may keep everyone.
He may fire Farmer and keep Pet.
He may fire Pet and keep Farmer.
He may fire everyone.
Of all those options, I would be most upset if Pet is the fall guy and we keep Farmer. Not saying Pet is invoking thoughts of Vince Lombardi, but you can't make chicken soup out of chicken crap.
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I really have no idea what Haslam is going to do.
He may keep everyone.
He may fire Farmer and keep Pet.
He may fire Pet and keep Farmer.
He may fire everyone.
Of all those options, I would be most upset if Pet is the fall guy and we keep Farmer. Not saying Pet is invoking thoughts of Vince Lombardi, but you can't make chicken soup out of chicken crap. Haslam is certainly in a tough spot. I don't know that Chud deserved to be canned after 1 season, but I DO understand him being unloaded if Haslam felt that he didn't quite fit "the plan". What compounds that loss however is that along with Chud went Horton and dang Norv Turner. That following HC search showed that were at the bottom of the barrel. This isn't so much a commentary on the quality of Pet, but more so that it revealed a lack of interest on the part of most experienced and up and coming coaches. AT this point Jimmy has to keep a nominal number of people around for a lengthy period of time to show that the franchise has stabilized. Until then, we'll just keep going backwards every time someone gets fired because no one of talent or quality will want to come here. This isn't to say that I think everyone's job is secure for at least one more season. I just don't think that a whole sale blow it all up again would set us back at least a decade. My guess at this point is that there's a 50/50 chance Farmer goes. I also think that unless this defense turns around, Oneill might be let go.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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I really have no idea what Haslam is going to do.
He may keep everyone.
He may fire Farmer and keep Pet.
He may fire Pet and keep Farmer.
He may fire everyone.
Of all those options, I would be most upset if Pet is the fall guy and we keep Farmer. Not saying Pet is invoking thoughts of Vince Lombardi, but you can't make chicken soup out of chicken crap. I'm pretty sure Pettine will get fired before Farmer. Especially if any if the following is true: --Pettine wanted Gilbert. --Pettine wanted Whitner. --Pettine was fine with letting Skrine walk. --Haslam wanted Manziel. --We have a double digit losing season. --Run defense finishes 32nd and Pettine refuses to replace O'Neil. --Manziel comes in, doesn't wet the bed, and plays reasonably well. Although the first three are GM moves, Farmer can write them off as trying to make his coach happy. The last three are highly likely and Pettine has to own those. He has to explain them to Haslam. The fourth one, well it is what it is. So if I had to make a prediction, Pettine goes before Farmer. Both are really hard to root for. And in the absence of having any kind of long-term plan in place for anything it appears, I actually don't even care anymore. There's not much reason to watch the product these guys put on the field. They are both in over their heads and absent any kind of football person coming in and overseeing these two, it's hard to predict if they will actually get better. That sound you just heard was the king of continuity taking a step off the train. I'm not completely off, just a bit apathetic at the moment. Keep them, blow it up. I pretty much have no hope for the future either way.
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Bill Walsh wrote this: 
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While I respect your opinion, how in the world can you give Farmer a pass and blame it all on Pet?
Seriously man............
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I'm not blaming it all on Pett.
I was making a prediction that if one of the two is fired that it would be Pett over Farmer.
Did you actually read my post?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 6 - Rams 24 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
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