DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Start Manziel thread

Please re-read. "If"is a key word.

So you are just making up stuff...got it you need to fabricate quotes to support your view.

Dude that was clearly a speculation post. Not everything has to be Lies! Lies! Lies!

On a separate issue, GM a couple of pages ago was called out somewhat. The dude has been around for donkeys years and is legitimately connected. You'd think that having shared so many insider tidbits over the years that posters would be a little more appreciative of that insight as it would be a shame to lose that if he chose not to share. He's careful with what he digresses and won't name sources for obvious reasons ( they won't remain sources for long!).
There have been some fakers here over the years but this ain't one. If you didn't know, then you can probably be forgiven but now you do. There's still nothing wrong with disagreeing views presented but it's cool to see the other side of the fence right? (Well I think so anyways).

Oh, the irony.

I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that GM has a connection w/the team. I also agree w/you about being appreciative of his little tidbits of information.

GM is a tough guy and one can argue w/him all day, but I don't think it's a good idea to question his integrity.

I'd be all for supporting the "Start Johnny" movement, but I honestly don't think it matters any more.

This coaching staff is so freaking stubborn that they are going to stubborn themselves right off the team.

I truly believe Jimmy is cleaning house. Ray Farmer looks like a complete train wreck right now. You have to imagine the regime that comes in will want to distance themselves from Manziel and all the attention that follows. He'll be traded or released.

Couple that with a high pick like Connor Cook, and they can wipe the slate clean.

Johnny never got a true chance to take the reigns of this team. Part of that is his own fault for not working hard last year and not being ready late last year. Also, part of it is the complete stubborness by Mike Pettine and his bonehead staff.

The only thing at this point that could save Pettine's job is probably Manziel. Either Johnny blows up and the Browns finish strong, or he loses a bunch of games like they do now, and he can throw his hands up in the air and say he doesn't have a QB.

I feel like Pettine is following the Rex Ryan path..

Ryan IMO in his last season in NY, stuck with Sanchez, because Sanchez was his guy..

They acquired Tebow, and the longer they went without playing him (and losing) the least likely they'd ever play him..

Because if he came in and played well, then Rex would have to explain WHY he never made the switch.

So............you think that Pet is the problem and Farmer has provided him w/good talent?

I yi yi yi.......

I at no point said that.

Okay.

I don't know everything that happened but I think the evidence is pretty clear that Manziel set himself up for failure last year.

If anything, that is probably when a rift, if one exists, between Pettine and Manziel began.. because it might have confirmed what Pettine thought of Manziel in the first place and is something that he is not yet over.

Could be.

This is easily the most boring Browns team I've ever seen. I'm not going to say they're the worst, because we all remember those Pat Shurmur teams and there really is no argument there...

But man, I don't even want to watch these games. I didn't want to watch the Rams game, but I still did. What was I rewarded with? 3 hours wasted on one of the last beautiful Sundays of the year. 6 points.

The most hilarious part of this era of Browns football is that we'll look back at the bald-headed coach with a goatee who looks like a badass who wanted run the ball and stop the run. Everything in that last sentence is the complete opposite.

I just hope the next regime realizes that we just need good football players. We don't need to reinvent the game or come up with some hilarious theory about how you can create a system where you devalue the QB (lol Ray). Just draft good football players. If you do that, you could have a lifetime job in Cleveland. It's seriously not that hard.

Better idea.... Pick Cribbs back up and start him. Officially begin the Crash for Connor Cook campaign.

C'mon, everyone knows the saying is, "By Hook or By Crook for Cook."

I don't think Manziel increases our chances of winning, but at 2-6 now there really isn't any reason not to play the kid.

I don't think our 2016 starter is currently on this roster.

Hopefully we'll finish 2-14 and can get that #1 overall pick for Goff, Lynch or Cook.

Why not play him to:
1. save Josh from being killed every week
2. trade JM away next year and get more for his value {assuming he shows he can play over the year]
3. See if Pet was not playing him due to lack of talent or something else..
4. See if he can develop as a leader on the field and earn the respect of his peers...

#Browns HC Mike Pettine said we're hopeful Josh McCown will be able to play Thursday. Said he'll start Thur if physically able to play.

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/660934918973755392

This is the one week where I would say Manziel should not start. He needs the best chance to succeed. Starting him after a short week, against an undefeated team, and on the road is the opposite of setting him up for success.

We will see him by the third qtr.

Manziel must really suck.

I mean, like be really bad.

I think that is most likely the case. But then why is he QB2 instead of Davis?

2-6.

id give him the start even in a short week.

I agree. I want film for the bye week on JM. We lose either way. Nothing about fairness here. Has to be a tipping point (which i feel we passed today) where McCown is so whittled down that he can't seriously function, especially the play selections Flip is feeding him.

Second half, we went away from what had us winning the first half; we returned to more dopey plays with a marginal QB. And that stunk. Our silly defense played badly enough to let them walk away. Just infuriating. No lead is safe with this secondary.

Yeah I mean, as others have said, we must really hate Manziel or something.

I'm not sure why they just don't elevate Austin to #2 then... I don't get today.

...sucks stuff through his nose early in the week if he's not starting.

He didn't look like he understood the situation when he came in today.

I agree. Throwing check downs and short passes in the 2 minute drill down by 11. Kinda like sliding short of the 1st down marker when it was 4th down the other game.

You don't really ever see him hang around Josh during the game either on the sidelines when the cameras are on Josh after good or bad plays.

I saw him sitting beside McCown reviewing stuff a couple of times yesterday. I think he's doing what he's supposed to do as a backup. I assume he is. I freaking HOPE he is.

As for the late-game check downs.... I dunno... but if they're just playing deep don't you dump it off to a back and hope they break a couple of tackles?

But whatever. I say start him Thursday and week after. If he truly sucks it won't be long before we know it. We need to see if he can be the guy or not when we head into another Top 10 pick at the draft.

Starting McCown Thursday would be a human rights violation. The man is just too beaten up to go out there on a short week. He played well, but he is like a pitcher coming off a 14-inning complete game loss in which he threw 300 pitches.

The situation was the game was over. It was a joke putting him in there at that point. Pure mop-up duty. Less than three minutes left and down two scores. Cardinals were playing off, what's he going to do hit a 50 yarder against those guys?

Turn your head and cough for Goff.

I feel like getting your testicles examined, while uncomfortable, is still a good thing in the long term. Back Off For Goff implies that we are trying to lose and is more befitting of our current situation.

Bigger deficits have been overcome in less time.

I don't know what you are seeing, but I have seen Maziel with McCown on the sidelines during the games.

Than you have not been watching. They are sitting side-by-side all the time.

Mike Pettine not ready for Johnny Manziel yet, but 'we feel good about where he's headed'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

By Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland.com on November 02, 2015 at 8:51 PM, updated November 02, 2015 at 8:57 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Josh McCown waved Johnny Manziel off the field on Sunday and then coach Mike Pettine waved him off again Monday.

During a conference call, Pettine made it clear that he's not ready to turn the team over to Manziel despite the fact that McCown has a rib injury and the Browns are a dire 2-6 heading into Thursday night's game against the 7-0 Bengals.

"You take each week as it comes and we're not at that point,'' said Pettine, who's 2-11 in his last 13 games and 3-12 in his last 15. "To me, it's a valid question. When we get to each week, especially with some time off coming up, we'll certainly hit the reset button and see where we are. Each week brings a new challenge, a new set of circumstances. We're just not ready to say we're at that point yet."

Pettine disagreed with the notion that he's reluctant to play Manziel, who pulled on his helmet and took two steps onto the field during Sunday's 34-20 loss to the Cardinals before McCown motioned him back to the sidelines. In fact, Pettine was asked if he'd consider starting third-teamer Austin Davis if he's so dead set against using his 2014 first-round pick.

"To me, (Manziel's) our backup,'' said Pettine. "When our starter was hurt against the Jets, he came in and I thought, for the most part, did a good job, given the fact that he hadn't gotten a ton of reps. Then he did a good job preparing the following week and went out and played well. So again, part of that is maybe my own being bunkered in. I don't really get too wrapped up in what the outside perception is of our quarterback room, but I just know Josh McCown has done a great job for us.'

With mostly McCown at the helm, the Browns have racked up 2,290 passing yards, second-most in the first eight weeks of a season in Browns history. The total is seventh among NFL teams this season. Against the Cardinals, he threw three touchdowns in the first half for a 20-7 lead before the Caridnals stormed back with 27 unanswered points.

"(McCown's) doing a good job playing the position,'' said Pettine. "We feel good about where Johnny is and the direction he's headed. Those are just our circumstances."

Manziel did get in the game with 2:16 remaining, just after the Cardinals tacked on their final field goal to put the game out of reach for the Browns. But if all goes as planned, he'll be on the sidelines in Cincinnati while McCown tries to pull the Browns out of their three-game tailspin.

McCown underwent X-rays on his ribs after the game, but Pettine declined to reveal if they were negative. If the Browns had practiced Monday, McCown would've rested.

"Josh is sore and it's difficult this week just given that it's a short week,'' said Pettine. "He'll be day to day. We'll know a lot more when we get into (Tuesday) and into Wednesday."

With the short week, the Browns only have a light practice on Tuesday before heading to Cincinnati on Wednesday, so the quarterback decision might come down to gametime again.

"Everything we're doing this week is essentially a walk-through, so other than the guys that are in the concussion protocol, we'll expect all our guys to be out there at practice, but we'll know more (Monday night) and more heading into tomorrow,'' said Pettine.

After reviewing the film of McCown taking three straight hard hits by the Cardinals, including two straight by former Brown Frostee Rucker, Pettine stood by his decision again to the keep the 13-year veteran in the game. McCown needed medical attention on the sidelines, and then crouched on the field to compose himself and recapture his wind after the second hit by Rucker. That's when Manziel started out onto he field, only to be turned back by his indestructible mentor.

"We had a conversation with Josh today, and like I said before, when a guy is suspected of having an injury, I think our medical staff does a good job of checking them out, making sure they're ready to go back in,'' said Pettine. "Our players all know that if there's a situation where they know that they can't continue, that they should go down and get medical attention. Just looking at that sequence of plays, I still feel the same way that I felt (Sunday).''

Fortunately for the Browns, it appears that Manziel will be available for the Bengals game either as the backup or the starter. An NFL spokesman said there's been no decision yet on Manziel's possible discipline under the personal conduct policy for his Oct. 12 incident, and that there's no timetable on a ruling.

Regardless of who starts, he'll have a skeleton crew at receiver. Brian Hartline was diagnosed with a concussion Monday morning and will most likely sit out the game. Andrew Hawkins was still in the concussion protocol as of Monday afternoon.

What's more, the Browns have no running game to speak of, and McCown was their leading rusher Sunday with 18 yards. It's a major reason McCown has been hit so much this season.

"We have not run the ball consistently,'' said Pettine. "You've got to win on early downs running the ball to avoid third and long. That's the challenge to the guys up front. That's the challenge to the backs, that's the challenge to the tight ends, everybody involved in the run game -- that we can not be one-dimensional.''

After the Bengals game, the Browns will have 10 days to recover before heading to Pittsburgh for another tough AFC North game. Then it's bye week and a chance to hit the reset button.

If the Browns are 2-8 at that point, Manziel might finally be waved onto the field.

Yawn

That's another 'we just got our butt handed to us, but I still think we're moving forward and making progress" type candy coated bs.

i remember everybody saying how refreshing it was to here pettine be a "straight shooter" and talk tough when he first got hired.

lol......

I'm not rooting against him, I'm just convinced of what we'll see. I've consitently said that I hope to high heaven that I'm 100% wrong. I will root just as hard for a Manziel QB'd team as anyone else, I just believe that last year's Cincinatti game is who he is as a professional quarterback.

Having said that, in terms of the thread, I think this week is the prefect time to start him. He's essentially had a week and a half of reps with the one's. If he does start and doesn't play well, no one can say that he shouldn't have been prepared.

People don't even know what they want to hear except that when we lose they don't want to hear anything.... it doesn't matter what he would say or how he might say it, after enough times it will still seem just as contrite as anything else.

He's probably as sick of having to spew the same lame spin each week as we are of hearing it, but he's the head coach, this is what he is SUPPOSED to say in times like this.