DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Arizona 34 What I saw Game 8

Whether it was a joke or not, that is one of the most constructive posts I've read today.

On another thread I mentioned Tomlin. If Tomlin did something stupid, he had to look into LeBeau's eyes. That alone would cause someone to think twice.

Too bad.

Probably the most readable, productive thread I've read all day.

It wasn't meant as a joke.

Is that on Pettine or Farmer? That's the question. Last year it looked like it wasn't a bad move. This year...

I think people will immediately jump in and say Farmer made the decision. I wonder.

I've admitted I am not a great Xs and Os guy.

I know that I see some things work and then we never do them again. Duke Johnson had 7 catches for 70 yards against the Rams.. he had 2 catches for 68 yards against the Cardinals (both in the first half)... In the second half we ran the ball 5 times and dropped back about 25 times and he wasn't on the field much and got 0 touches... maybe I'm naive and not seeing the bigger picture... but when Pettine says that some rotation dictates that he not be on the field in the second half, I have to wonder if that makes any sense.

I have to wonder if leaving McCown in the game when he was clearly in pain and the Cardinals were coming for him HARD made any sense.

I have to wonder if never ever trying a fake punt or anything like that makes any sense.

I get that we don't have a Julio Jones or anybody like that who can take over and that teams fear or a DE that demands a double team... I get that...

the other big thing is attitude.. this is 2 weeks in a row that we have played defenses that seemed to get their jollies hammering people in the secondary.. we still seem to be content to drag people down from behind, unless they have their forearm up under our neck and are driving us backwards.

No Rishuz.. Go to them all... I did notice it some but didn't spend much time focusing on it. With all the talk about Pet.. GM..Talent and other coaches I sort of spent more time focusing on it this week..

I understand the talent vs coaching vs GM talk going on... I also understand the HC doesn't have to go around screaming like a freak... But I also don't get why he totally avoided the players and coaches on the sideline..

It was just what I saw this week that was different than other posts that repeated the same things in this thread.

I pay $150 per ticket... $30 to park..8x's a season That's just to get in...And there's people that pay way more.

So I guess me seeing something different than what we see from each player game after game is worth being ignored... Nice !

I tried to put something else in there that no one else seems to see. I guess I can come point out one player and his mistakes... Drop passes... missed point afters.. missed tackles and missed blocks..

Or I can point out a player who got a pass ..picked up a block.. tackled his guy or pressured..

Then there's pointing out injuries... I saw a guy get his bell rang and couldn't walk off the field.. but is getting a bad rap because he can't play good football.. Or a guy whose playing with bruised ribs..and is still playing hard..

Yeah I saw all that.. I also read damn near every post saying they saw the same thing... I just tried to say I saw something not mentioned and get ignored... because I'm not in the click and don't know crap....lol

You are a good poster and sorry for being harsh. I'm just frustrated, like many of us are.

I saw this coming and addressed it all off-season. People like to pooh-pooh it by calling people Negative Nancy's, haters, etc.

But man, when people have false expectations of the team's talent and when reality sets in, the coach and/or qb are the first ones blamed.

Look bro, if this team wasn't playing hard, I would be harder on Pet, but they are still playing hard. They just aren't that good, man.

I mean, seriously............name one guy on our team that can take over a game. Do we have a back like Gurley? A WR like Beckham Jr? A pass rusher like Von Miller? A disruptive force like JJ Watt? A qb like Rodgers? A corner like Sherman?

Who the heck is our best playmaker? I think it's Gipson. And by all indications, it appears our GM doesn't want to pay him as much as he paid Bowe.

It's time to recognize the problem in the FO and stop blaming Pet for all our problems. We really need to maintain some sense of continuity. There was a reason I started those threads about continuity. I was going to keep going, but mac pretty much screwed that up.

I think continuity is NEEDED. But maintaining the GM and firing the coaching staff is back-assward. The only time the players care about the GM is during salary negotiations and perhaps if the guy drafts another guy at their position.

I am pretty passionate about this. Firing the coaching staff would be a mistake. Keeping the GM would be an even bigger mistake. Unfortunately, I have a sneaky suspicion that is exactly what is going to happen. I am going to battle that plan. And if I lose that battle, it might just be time to move on from this franchise.

I'll probably still be standing beside you.
Probably.
No guarantees, tho-

smh

You are a smart guy..........I hope that you are finally understanding why I was cautioning people all off-season about how good this team was?

People get their hopes up and then when reality strikes, they flip out and lash out and look to blame the innocent.

Whose the innocent Vers ?

Bro, I was on Pet's case before anyone, other than maybe Bone.

I am not an apologist.

I coached the game. I got paid to scout. I know a bit of what I am talking about.

I think Pet has a ways to go in order to be a good coach. I freaking pretty much initiated that conversation. How do people forget things so quickly?

What I am saying is that Farmer has been a complete dud and he gave Pet Gilber, Johnny, Shelton, and Erving. He took away Skrine, Sheard, and Reubin and made us an older, slower team. He doesn't wanna pay Gipson, but gave Bowe 12.5 million w/$9 million of it guaranteed. He passed on guys like Teddy, Carr, and Jimmy G and took Johnny. He passed on guys like Beckham Jr. and drafted the guy who led the country in drops.

Come on, man..............the innocent should be obvious.

If the Browns fire Pet and KEEP Farmer, I am done w/the franchise.

That's why I was hoping to hear from you.. I'm not against Pet.. But I'am Questioning things I have seen from the seats.. How does it work and how much involvement is needed from the HC..



This makes me ask..How much involvement did Pet have with Farmers picks... Because at first it was Farmer and Pet saying we are doing this together..




Vers.. I still don't know.. Honestly... I'm listening to every side and opinion.. and nothing is making sense to me...

Was Banner and Lombardi fired because of them hiring Pet ?

In hindsight, I honestly think we should have stuck with Banner.

I appreciate what you saw from the seats, but on tv, they did show Pet interacting w/other coaches and him getting fired up when we making plays.

Look bro....I get the feeling he is a bit stubborn. I think he needs to improve in areas. I just think our talent is horrendous! I know people don't wanna hear that, but man, that is the way I see it. And I said it all off season. I saw this coming.




I truly do not know the answer to this question.




That's smart. Wish more would do that.




I don't think so. I think they were fired because of all the negative feedback from an ignorant media and fan base, as in.............The Three Stooges. In my opinion, it really sucks, because Banner was the guy who had the vision and the plan that would have helped us. It wasn't popular, but neither was Belichick's. I have always thought the majority of locals back the wrong horse.

Wow! Never expected that from you.

.


I believe many people agree with that and some don't.. But thanks for your reply..Because at this point for myself it's figuring out why we are in the same sinking ship. Which I get multiple responses from fans in the lots after the game... I really do appreciate your input

I'm not sure why. I don't think I was ever particularly vocal against Banner. I do think his personality created a toxic environment, but if we started winning I think people would have gotten over it. If Belichick didn't have Brady he would be accused of creating a toxic environment so I think winning cures that. And in the face of the stupidity we are currently witnessing from this team from the top all the way to the players, it would be nice to have a guy of Banner's intelligence around. I think most of his moves were good. I think him having a falling out with his handpicked GM was a huge notch in the negative column, but if I had a choice of Farmer or Banner, it's Banner hands down. I think given time, he would have gotten this turned around.

That statement my friend can go all the way back to 1999

I think he was very secure in feeling that he would get that time. Probably his big ego fueled that or maybe Haslam is a liar? Not sure.

Banner often spoke of making unpopular moves and understood how fans would question them, but he said if you build a winner, the fans would forget all of that.

I personally think he had a plan. A real plan. I do think he was smarter than other guys. Some people act like that is a negative, but I think it's a positive.

It's freaking football, not a children's birthday party. God!

You know what, Rish? Since our return, the drafting of Joe Thomas is the only move that I really agreed with. Guys like Pit and BpG can confirm that.

My friend Jules stated that she is losing her passion. I love that girl. She is a hard-ass Brown's fan and is very intelligent. Reading her words saddened me. Heck, even you have talked of apathy. I love passion. Hell, in real life, my friends and I have always gotten into heated arguments and screamed at each other. It's sometimes resulted in fights. But, we were still friends afterwards. Buy the guy on the bottom a beer and change the subject for a bit....LOL

Too many people on here are about personalities rather than logic. I shouldn't say that.....most are cool, but man, a few guys are all about personalities. It's hard to even have a conversation at times.

If you don't switch to apathy, you won't survive.

I will be watching the game on Thursday.

However, I am fully ecstatic we are not playing on Sunday. I expect to have a great weekend because of that. Give my beautiful baby girls, who are growing leaps and bounds everyday, my undivided attention. Get out of the house and do something as a family. I'm stoked.

By the way, Gruden just used "route tree" on MNF.

Hope you and your family have a great weekend. My kids are in their 20s. I spent a ton of time w/them as kids. We still hang out. They come over. We play golf, shoot pool, shoot guns, play cornhole, drink beer, etc.

When all else is gone.........you still have your family!

Gruden must be an idiot for mentioning "route trees." HaHa HaHa HaHa ..........what a dufus.

I'm just having a real hard time living this eternal, perpetual 'Groundhog Day' thing.

Every other year: all new names to get used to.
Every other year: new schemes, new terminology for the players.
Every other year, personnel gets dumped because they don't fit the new stuff.
Every other year, talk of Firings at midseason.

15 years of 2-season FO's blow-ups, resets and strangers (at virtually ALL important positions) working together for the first time. 15 years of unhappy, bitter fans who no longer expect anything good to come out of Berea.

Honestly, it's pretty much sucked all the joy out of me for football. It's hard to watch other teams playing well, because it just makes my team look so much worse. This team has hurt me so much, they've actually made me like football a little less.

I come here regularly because I rather like this community of 'NFL Misfits.' You guys have made me feel welcome for years, and it would be hard to quit you. I wonder if there's any way I could continue to hang out in EE while still distancing myself from a team that repeatedly fails to EARN the loyalty I've given them.

I dunno. Probably have to quit everything cold turkey, and just ditch all my gear. I came reeally close when ChudNorvRay were gone, and was utterly at my lowest when Banner was sent packing. I mean, there we were- the ONLY NFL team with no front office at all.


I alluded to this dismal history of ours last week, when I compared us to the other teams in our division. 3 of the most stable franchises in the business. 2 of them (CIN, PIT) both went through years of frustration to get where they are. Difference: they allowed those painful first years to be just that- FIRST years of a long tenure. Browns: those 'painful first years' end up being the only years... and we do it all over again. Growing pains for the new staff become just more years of endless pain for us.

Sorry to hijack the thread with a pitiful self-serving rant. I promised myself to stay away for 24 hours so I wouldn't do it to you guys.

_____________________

I was at the game yesterday. I saw a team (in the first half) that could play with anybody in the NFL. Then I saw the 1999 Browns for 30 more minutes. I saw fans leaving the stadium with 10:00 still on the clock, and their team only down by 10. I had fun because I was with some good friends, and it's always a good time no matter what we're doing.

And last: I saw a team that seemed to have the same attitude as the fans... leave the game when you find yourself behind.

I am waiting for my favorite Spider Y 2 Banana

So few fans have the "stick with it" mentality. The team has to give the team a chance. We can't change systems every 2 years.

Every change we hear "Oh, this will be the time. this coach, this gm.....this year", and after 1 year there are rumblings of "we need a new coach, gm", whatever.

Meanwhile we hear about teams that turned it around in 1 year. We hear about past Browns coaches that have gone on to success elsewhere.


Can we please stop with the "we need a new........" just for a couple of years? What has the "new" gotten us when they are only given 2 years. 2 years to change systems and try to get players that fit the system. Sorry folks, that isn't how it works.

We're the only team I know that wants a head coach fired after a season and a third. ( 1 1/3 seasons). We want the gm fired. Heck, some are calling for a new owner already.

It get's old. It IS old, and it's been proven it doesn't work.

But, in todays day, it's "give me now. I want it now."

My son and I had a long talk this weekend about why I root for the Browns. He used logic. I used loyalty.

I have to admit that I have disagree w/almost all moves we have made recently. You wanna fire Banner. You wanna draft chumps. You wanna let good young talent go. You wanna bring in older players. You wanna talk about trading good players like Joe Thomas and Alex Mack. You wanna raise ticket prices.

Alright.........but, you are losing me.

I don't have a great relationship w/as many posters as you do, but I like many of you and like to mess w/even more.

If the Browns fire Pet and keep Farmer..........I will reach the point where I have had enough. I might still post on here, but it won't be about how we can get better.

Why would this be your last season eotab?

I was at the game. I did see Farmer and Haslam both on the field during pre game. Haslam's visit was short. I watched Farmer. He seemed alone, on an island with nobody. Haslam, on the other had had a huge crowd around him. He usually does during pre game. We sit just above the Browns tunnel. Haslam left the field half way through warm ups.

Pettine, throughout the game, paced the sidelines as usual. I make an effort each game to note his demeanor. He always looks perplexed walking with his hands either on his hips, in his pockets or fiddling with his mic.

He paced the sidelines with good distance between himself, players and other coaches. At one point, I was watching the Cards sidelines. The coaches were in a huddle apearing to be in serious discussion. During the time I was watching, I never saw Browns coaches together or, for that matter, appearing to communicate much.

Maybe this observation merely suggests different coaching styles. Not sure. However, looking at the cohesiveness, or lack thereof, of both teams, I would suggest there may be more to it.

There just has to be a rift somehwere here. From the other thread in an article posted this AM I would surmise that the team President is active with Haslam and Farmer and Pettine are on the outside looking in. There is an obvious disconnect.

Another observation we made was that Manziel wanted in that game. He was chomping to get in there. Pettine is the leader of this this team. He needed to take McCown out if for no other reason than to pick up his head and put it back on his shoulders. He was visibly shaken.

Oh well.....SSDD.

Last year I was disappointed in Manziel's lack of competitiveness and seeming lack of desire to actually play. I like the fact that he wants in the game badly this year.

I thought that was a great observation as did eotab ... hi tabber ... hope alls well bud ....

thanks for sharing Diesle .... that is very interesting ... and exactly what I love to see in this trhead and I know tabber does as well ...

not sure who mentioned it but the fact the coaches never talk to the players or look at pics is hard to believe ... not calling anyone a liar by any stretch .... it just makes no sense ... if that's true ... they should all be fired .. the entire staff ....

Tab/Vers - how does that make any sense ... and how is it not a fireable offense? ...

I promise to chime in on the Cinci game with exactly what u want tab ... sorry about not contributing to this in the way u want .... but I gots questions bro ...

-I think our Def looked better because it looked like they simplified the sceheme. At least through the first half players were playing disciplined, seemed to be in pretty good position, made some plays.

-I think Campbell actually looked pretty solid when he came in for Whitner. Took some good angles and made some nice tackles.