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Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
You put the odds that he should have been starting all along at 0.05% and the odds he shouldn't at 99.95%. That sounds about right to me.


This is not what I said.

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sorry. the first 3 last year? 2 was a perfect example of leaving the pocket to early and trying to throw on the run. and the other had nothing to do with throwing motion, read progression, and footwork, just a bad read and being late on the pass. as far as the jets? pfft the guy couldnt even practice for 3 weeks before the game. i really dont think the kid is a nfl QB but those you put up do nothing for me.

to tell the truth i think no matter what.. even if he plays lights out and wins every game from here on out.. have to look for the long term answer because he can not be trusted. JMO


Finally someone comments on what they saw on film. This is what I see from left to right top to bottom.

Yes the first 3 are the Cincy Game last year, but there is not a lot of all 22 film on the guy and I did want to show the things that are still the same.

Clip 1 Kept the ball high and protected with both hands, (normally he doesn't protect the ball this well) Rather than take a couple of steps forward in the pocket he goes right to running forward. The pocket had not collapsed. Rather than stop and set his feet, he just kind of shuffles them. Big wind-up before the throw and 3/4 release with nobody in front of him. Neither foot was on the ground when let go.

Clip 2 Didn't set his feet, sidearm delivery with nobody in front of him. Body turning sideways instead of forward.

Clip 3 Didn't need to scramble. Just needed to step up in the pocket. Ball carelessly held one handed and low. Unnecessary hop on the throw and throws on wrong foot.

The Jets game

Clip 1 Never sets his feet. Doesn't step into throw. Big windup. Slight hop.

Clip 2 Flat footed. Ball never got chest high. Rather than step to the right, throws the ball sidearm to avoid rush.

Clip 3 Left the pocket for no reason. Ball again held one handed and low. Strip sack waiting to happen. Rather than stop and turn his hips or tuck the ball and step out of bounds, he actually switches hands to unload the ball as he is getting hit.

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Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Swish
why do people say McCown is the best chance to win?


Because he is a veteran people think he has a better handle on the offense (they are probably right).

What people don't understand (or don't believe) is that Manziel is much more talented than McCown in many different ways (mobility, accuracy, release, downfield throws, etc.)



What people also don't understand is JFF has poor footwork, a poor throwing motion, doesn't make it past his second read, still struggles with pre-snap reads, and gambles too much on his throws.



Yeah, well, you're also the guy who likes to call him "Johnny Rehab", so screw you.


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Okay you are a coach.

You saw the same clips that I just critiqued. Tell me what I got wrong.

If Johnny had more tape out there from this year I would have put it in. And yes I have been posting a lot on the subject because quite frankly I think all the guys saying he should have been starting all of this time are smoking the same stuff as swish.

Do you think he's ready? Do you think McCown should have been benched for him by now?

I've tried to be fair in my assessment. Although I did not like the pick at first, I was one of the first people saying how much he improved in preseason. I have also said that I don't think he's toast either, just that he isn't ready yet.

Most people on this board think he should be our #1 or be off the team with no in between.

When you put in a QB as starter and he isn't ready for it, he just develops bad habits trying to freelance. We have a QB that is producing. He is another guy that I wasn't really high on when we got him, but he is giving us 21 points a game and that is a heck of a lot better than we've had in a while. If we had a halfway decent defense we'd have a .500 team right now. If we also had a running game, we'd have a shot at the playoffs.

If you don't want to take my word for it, take Brian Billick's. It's been posted as well.

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Originally Posted By: Lemmys_Wart
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: Lemmys_Wart
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
J/C ....

I cannot believe that people are freaking out over this, like Pettine decided to start Manziel this week because of a grudge, or something.

Manziel is starting because McCown is about one hit away from a full body cast. He got the living heck knocked out of him in the Cardinals game, and there are reports that he couldn't even sleep because he was in so much pain.


Right. I understand that people have agendas and are constantly trying to push them, but it's so painfully obvious that Manziel is starting because McCown is hurt. I do NOT understand some of the fans on this board.


I think certain posters on this board should learn how to read before they start hurling out accusations.


Friend, the very first sentence of the article says Josh McCown is dealing with a painful rib injury, so the team was preparing Manziel to start. Replies from others are as follows:

-Pettine must really, REALLY hate Manziel. Just, wow.

-Literally the only week of the entire season where this would be a horrible decision. Last week was the week to do it. Really dumb.

-Seems like if the Browns can make a bad decision, they do it.

-Unreal, what a horrible time for a start.

-I really think this is an ignorant move.

-The point is the team is taking every opportunity to shatter this guy's confidence before he even takes a snap.

-Making the right decision at the absolute wrong time.

-Has it crossed your mind that perhaps starting JM this week was a directive from above?


Some, if not most, of those comments came before it was announced that McCown was too hurt to play and JFF would start. They were just comments on some speculation at that point.

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DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Bengals 31 Browns preparing to start Johnny Manziel at Bengals

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