DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It's Time to Fire Pettine and Farmer.

I don't know if you mean that or just joking, but thats all coaching.

Maybe it's coaching, but FOR SURE it's player selection.

Chuck Noll couldn't coach up guys that weren't able to compete in this league.. When he got them, he won.

Not saying Pettine is Noll.. Not at all. Just saying, if you got garbage, you won't be great.

Yes, I agree. But when you have Pro-bowl players looking like it's their first time out it's not the players, it's gotta be the coaching.

I'm just as concerned with tanking for the picks with Farmer picking. Makes no sense given his track record. Farmer needs to go. The chef can't prepare a prime rib dinner when given ground meat to work with. We need someone who recognizes the prime rib and provides it for the chef to prepare.

The carousel of coaches does not work. Just look at the last 2 decades. Where is Marv Lewis' team right now? Just a few years ago he was on the hot seat.

Speaking of hot seat, I hope Farmer feels the heat on his britches by now.

exactly. people wanna cry about the talent, but nobody is arguing that. we know Farmer sucks, hence why i put his trash name in the title thread.

but when our of our pro bowlers have regressed in play, that ain't a talent problem. thats a coaching problem.

Dansby was a beast in Arizona. gets here, and we're already talking about we need better linebackers. We got kruger and drafted Mingo, yet we are already saying how our OLBs need to be replaced.

We got whitner, who people swore up and down he was better than Ward, who is a pro bowler by the way along with haden and gipson.

and now all 3 stay injured, or haven't performed like pro bowlers.

that's not a talent problem. thats a coach who can not bring out the best in his players.

should we get on the O line? Vers wants to bring up Irving, yet fails to mention that it's Irving's first start in the NFL. what about all the other games prior to that?

Our OL were monsters last year. so is it talent? or coaching?

With more or less the same WR core, Shanny had these WR balling the hell out. This year they dropped, even though we can argue it should've gotten better with Hartline in the mix.

Bowe is on Farmer. The rest? thats on Pettine.

Crow was a beast last year? now all of a sudden he sucks?

that ain't talent, thats trash coaching.

I agree Swish. It's really hard to keep a level head with all thats going on. Makes you feel like saying fire 'em all!

It was said in jest but there is some truth to it. Manziel missed an entire year, by now, in his second season, he should be taking snaps under center on 1st and 2nd downs. That's not entirely the coaches fault he would rather blow coke and get wasted than work.

At the same time, put his ass under center, if he fails he fails. Stop putting lipstick on a pig.

Feels like QB should be progress position, but not so much. JM could have a good scoring day, but no game is safe with this secondary and the way we "scheme" defense.
Penalties killed us, but neither coordinator had what we needed.

Lot of stupid yesterday, and evaluating what we are doing wrong "A to Z" according to Pett is scary. We aren't doing it on defense obviously; every bad technique and outcome seems carried forward. Ashamed for these players because of the coaching. We may not stack up talent wise, but we can play a dang sight better ball than this.

Last year Pfft ...yeah he made mistakes and got himself injured. That said, JM was and still is the backup and has only been taking the majority of the reps for a couple weeks now. It's the toughest thing to learn as a QB. He's progressing, he's learning. He did a lot of good things Sunday.

If we where to fire Pettine and thinking that Miami is probably a pretty attractive job that would allow Steven Ross to make a splash hire which a lot of owners are prone to do. Would Dan Campbell be a guy that has gotten a taste for being a head coach and would jump at the chance to get a longer term shot and someone we would look at?

I agree.... This is all trash coaching. Every bit of it. We are so predictable its not even funny.

I think stacked is a bit of an exaggeration.. but I will admit that I didn't think we would take a flying broad jump backwards from last year.

Dan Campbell's entire NFL resume is 10 years, 91 catches, 900 yards... .and his coaching resume is 1 year as an intern, 4 years as a LB coach for a mediocre defense, and these interim games in which his rah rah attitude got the team pumped to beat 2 bad teams and then come back to reality... Dan Campbell is the definition of a coaching "project"...

I thought I was the only one who saw it that way judging by the comments I got when I said the same thing.

Which is what we may be stuck picking from, should we get rid of Pettine after this season.

No excuse for the defensive we see especially from a guy who is a defensive minded coach. If it was all on the O u could say, need to do this or that but the stuff i see on D is just inexcuseable

having Armonty Bryant not cover a WR would help.

i think any one of us could make that decision.

I know I have said this before and I stand by it. The problem is/was that they flipped the D Line and for reasons I do NOT understand?

We needed/ and need LB help and I don't understand why they canned most of the D Line. When we stop changing things just to change them then will begin to benefit from continuity, and yes players play better after they have been together for a while.

But honest Tab you watched the games last year we got gashed on the edges last year and we are getting gashed on the edges this year so why the big push for the NT. Nothing against Shelton but where these guys actually watching the games last year. We need LB and pass rushers and we draft a NT and a backup O Linemen, and cap it off by signing aging vets that are NOT better then the guys we let go.....

i agree. the shelton pick would've been fine if he was the missing piece to the defense.

but he isn't. our NT position was actually fine, especially if we would've kept rubin.

Our nose tackle was not fine. We were getting gashed in the run game last year.

But not up the middle.

Are we sure about that?

This is not a case of the offense being so inept that the defense is always on the field, thus wearing down and losing it in the end.. this is a case of the defense getting pushed around almost from the beginning of every game.

Yes, the offense is not scoring a lot of points but it was almost unanimous going into the season that the offense would struggle and the defense would have to pick up the slack...

Yes

Last year we gave up 4.63 yards when teams ran between a guard and center, 4.14 yards when running around the left tackle, 2.94 yards when running between the left tackle and left guard, 4.86 when running between the right tackle and right guard, and 3.77 yards when running outside the right tackle.

This year it's even uglier. We are giving up six yards when teams run outside the left tackle, 4.45 yards between the left tackle and left guard, 4.38 when running in between a guard and the center, 3.98 yard between the right guard and right tackle, and 4.59 yard when running around the right tackle.

How does that account for cut back runs where the run doesn't go where it was designed? Which seemed to burn us a lot last year and this year.

I believe they just tell where the running back went through the offensive line. They do no account for cutback runs (I think that that would be very hard to track, as some runs are designed for cutbacks and some just happen naturally through the course of play).

Which has been my point. You can't just point to the GM alone. Our D has ranked at the bottom of the league for two seasons now. The penalties are purely a discipline problem. And as bad as I think our talent is, there has been zero progress in any of our players. If anything, many have regressed.

While the GM has certainly been a big problem, it's not just him.

Farmer brought FAs in that were allowed to be FAs for a reason
No one in Miami is missing Hartline.same for Bowe..Starks.
Heck Cincy let Hawkins walk for a reason.
The Ravens don't miss Kruger
The Bucs are aren't wishing McCown was under center this year
Building a defense through over paid FAs has never worked

I agree with your overall premise, but Cincinnati tried to match our offer, but couldn't because of the way the contract was structured.

I think you bring up a good point. How do you think the guys in the locker room felt when they heard that we were in discussions to trade some of our best players?

Gee, that is a great way to boost team morale.

How do you think the players viewed seeing young talent be allowed to walk or traded seeing Farmer playing hard ball w/Gipson, our best defensive player while he gives big money to older guys?

Yeah, it's all about the coaching.

You don't get to be the worst team in the league (which is what we are) with just bad coaching or just bad talent evaluation or just bad players or just bad management. It's a combination of all these things, some greater than others.

When you have multiple failures across the board, it is probably best to start from scratch. The problem with that is that it seems like Haslam is a meddler and he will be the one constant. If he wants to be involved he needs to be clearly in charge and not have his underlings doing his dirty work.

They might not miss his contract, but their LB corp is hurting this year.

What it all boils down to is we lose at the point of attack on both sides of the ball. Our D line cant get penetration and O line cant push the opposing D line off the ball in run blocking. This team just feels soft all the way around, every game we play is like two guys getting in a fight we are the one getting beat up and we don't even fight back we just cant wait for it to be over. It makes me sick to watch.

kruger has been saying he doesnt like the defensive scheme. they dont let him blitz enough and nobody knows what to do on defense. tashawn g says the same thing....

the saints gave up 315 points to our 277...second most

As an owner I would be having quarterly meetings with my GM and HC asking them where we believe we (Browns) currently stand as a unit. After every four games I'd want an update as to how the coaches think they feel up to that point and the expectations/goals of the next four games.

At 2-7 on the season I'd be asking the questions that make them sweat, like, "What got us here, do you feel like you've done all that you could with the resources you had, how do you plan to improve/fix the rest of the season?" I'd want to gauge there responses individually, like a cross-examination.

Do I believe Pettine and Farmer deserve to be in the positions they are in? Nope. I expected nothing less than 7-9 this season seeing that as the bar set from last season.

Also, the decision to have McCown on this team is a continuation of all that is wrong with the Browns. I've preached this a lot already I feel, but Manziel as a #1 pick should not sit on the bench for two years while being paid first round money. That is dysfunctional as a franchise and makes zero sense.

God knows I'm the last to defend Text but I wonder how much Haslam has to do with that???

When we get talent together we must keep it together, we don't and suffer for it. FA doesn't provide upgrades generally speaking just a higher price tag.