DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It's Time to Fire Pettine and Farmer.

That will be his downfall. Camp cupcake destroyed what little hope there was this year.

Haslam doesn't need to care but he does need to take note. There is A LOT of history with this franchise and A LOT of pride in the fan base. He really does need to understand the connection of HIS team to the fans and the city of Cleveland.

We already know he is horrible. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. And that is dangerous...as we have already seen since he has taken over.

If he doesn't find a true FOOTBALL guy to run the FOOTBALL operation, nothing will ever change. Ever.

+1

One thing we need is an established OC and DC. I wasn't wild about Norv's scheme, at times, but the dude knows what he's doing with an offense. He's been there and done that. He's also a complete failure as a head coach, so we don't have to worry about him getting scooped up by the other teams doing their reboots.

i agree with you on lombardi.

but let's not exaggerate the Hoyer thing.

Any team at the time was willing to give up hoyer for a box of tissues and a Maxim magazine.

I am not saying he was great here. Not saying he was good.

I am just ASKING how did "he set the franchise back years?"

Thanks. I haven't seen it but like I said I don't pay special attention to the oline

You should check out the Game Day thread and look for the post that Sk8termom started. There are pictures and you can see it for yourself.

Lombardi and Banner are toxic waste. Pathetic managers of people and organizations.

I thought the Browns were on the right path with coaching, with Horton, Norv and Chud. So be it.

The front office is still a mess, I am not sure about Pettine. If chages are made, it will be understandable.

Another opinion stated as fact.

Results will do that to people.

Vers it was because Lombardi couldnt get along with chud and fed the owner these grand stories of all the coaches he could bring in. It didnt happen it became an embarrassment and thus he was fired. Banner was then pushed out soon afterwards for the mess that Lombardi made. Those changes are why we are where we are.

anyway, I want Pet to succeed but the way this defense is playing, It is gonna be damn near impossible. Last year they started out bad but made steady improvement throughout the year and was playing pretty good football by the end of the season.

This year they have started out bad and have been an avalanche since. Everything has crashed on defense and there just isnt one single area where you can hang your hat and say we got this covered.

I recall Vers(?) giving a short list of coaches; Gruden, Saban, and Meyer.

I've been thinking, if the team is going to make sweeping changes, they should replace Farmer now, let the new GM get settled in, and allow him to decide Pet's fate after the season.

I know Gruden has turned down invitations for HC interviews because he has a cushy job now, but I wonder if 1) he would take the GM job, and 2) if he is actually suited for it?

What about Tressel as GM?

I'm waiting for Mac to tell us who he wants to hire as both a HC/GM?

You said that's what we should do in another thread but offered no candidates to consider.. Can you do that now.

That is the real question. If we dont have someone experienced and proven, Im not interested in starting over.

The only thing I'd be fine with happening right now is firing the guy that thought it was OK for Bademosi to cover Brown 1-1 (and then did it again). I know we're thin on corners, but we're not that thin.

I would rather find someone to fill the president of football operations role. I f we lure someone that has built up enough respect through out the league, we should then be able to attract better GM and HC candidates.
I would suggest someone such as Bill Polian.

As far as HC/GM candidates. I am not sure who you offer that job to. The first name that comes to mind is Nick Saban but then so does his failed tenure with the dolphins.

Pettine and Farmer deserve another year. I keep saying it, the team made the decision that they were going to with two rookies at those positions when the hire was made and you've got to let them play out at least 3 years.

I stand by my opinion!!

I used restraint. More colorful words usually associated with this subject.

The 3 issues that get me going. Butch quitting, Anything Mangini, and Banner/Lombardi.

You wanna give rookies more time, but not Manziel who was also a rookie w/Farmer and Pet? That sounds fair.

Can you please tell me what Farmer has done to earn more time? Do you think guys "learn" to evaluate talent?

I respect your opinion, but my opinion is that I disagree w/you on all accounts. It's amazing.

Butch didn't really quit. He was run out of here by Collins.

Mangini was the one coach we had who had a clue.

Banner/Lombardi was the one FO who had a clue.

I realize that most of you don't agree w/that and I am fine w/that, but that is exactly how I feel and your colorful words will not change my opinions on the matter.

J/C

Been thinking this over. Maybe we should hire coach Klein.

"I have the solution! I don't know what it is, but I have it!"

I sound like a broken record but here it is again. I don't think Manziel has the physical skills or desire to to be an average NFL quarterback. I won't belabor the point beyond that. Every player starts off as a rookie, at some point every team has to deal with them not necessarily by choice but by neccesity. That's not true with Coaches and GM's. The decision was made to go this direction when we didn't have to and it needs to be seen through.

Farmer has had a decent eye for late round/undrafted talent. I think two of his four first round picks were not necessarily his, Gilbert was reputed to be Pettine's choice and Manziel, I'm convinced was Haslam. This last draft, I'm not as down on Erving and Shelton as some and I think that they will both be worthy of their draft positions within the next year.

I should also say that yeah, I think there's plenty of room to "learn" how to evaluate players. Clearly, he improved on selecting players that aren't going to self destruct and cost themselves their career for off the field issues. There's also a component of learning how to be a leader that can't necessarily be taught.

I hope that clears up any potential concern that I'm not being "fair"?

I don't know if we should be putting Gilbert, specifically, on Pettine. I saw someone else say something that made a lot sense (to me). Do we know if Pettine asked for Gilbert? Or did Pettine ask for a specific kind of corner and Gilbert was delivered? Or was a cornerback asked for and Gilbert was delivered?

We will never know the answers to these questions (at least in the immediate future, which is all that is relevant to us).

I will say this, it seems as if Pettine was given many things that he wanted. Depth on the offensive line, a veteran QB, highly touted nose tackle, corner, his own offensive coordinator, etc. With those things we are currently the worst team in the league.

History shows that if we win less than four games, then Pettine will be fired.

Lots of draft gurus had Gilbert as a first- round talent, I don't know if Pettine of Farmer should take the heat for that, his off field issues is another story.

Can't argue that, but "decent" at late round/undrafted is not good enough by a long shot when you are poor at the early rounds. We've always been at least "decent" at late round/undrafted and have yet to field a team that has the talent to compete week in and week out, or the talent to overcome mistakes like turnovers, penalties and blown calls.

We need to stop being satisfied with an occasional nugget on the last day of the draft or a hit in UDFA. We need to start delivering on our picks in the early rounds.

If you think Farmer has shown you enough that he can turn this franchise around, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But I cannot begin to see it. At all. IMO, he is killing us and needs to go. Now.

I don't give him much credit for the undrafted free agents. All teams need to sign their share to fill out the training camp roster. The undrafted free agent gets to choose what team he signs with. This has little to do with talent evaluation. It is luck that these guys picked us because their agents felt the Browns had the weakest roster at their position giving them the best chance at making the final roster.

If a GM thinks these guys are any good then they use a 6th/7th round draft pick on them

There may be some truth in that. I do think that GM's start looking at guys thinking they can probably get them after the draft and not have to spend a pick on them, so some of those guys are probably players we would have drafted but felt we could get them later.

Which is why I give little credit and not no credit

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/20567...-justin-gilbert

The Cleveland Browns made an unexpected series of moves that resulted in the team selecting Oklahoma State cornerback Justin Gilbert with the eighth-overall pick of the 2014 NFL draft.....While many had the Browns linked to offensive players with their first of two first-round picks, from quarterback Johnny Manziel to wide receivers Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins or even an offensive tackle, such as Jake Matthews, the team opted to take a position on defense, new head coach Mike Pettine's specialty.

The pick, while seemingly unorthodox, does reflect Pettine's defensive philosophy. As ClevelandBrowns.com's Vic Carucci notes, Pettine wanted the tallest, first-round graded cornerback he could get and Gilbert fits that mold.

Vic Carucci (twitter); @viccarucci
#Browns coach Mike Pettine wanted the tallest CB w/ a 1st-rd grade & that was Justin Gilbert. Needs 2 lock-down CBs to play his D!
9:06 PM - 8 May 2014


What Pettine sees in Gilbert is what he sees in all of his ideal defensive players—speed, aggressiveness, more-than-ideal size and the willingness to play physically and make big hits. When the Browns' front seven can't reach the quarterback, the cornerback tandem of Gilbert and Haden will certainly be able to clean up in the secondary.

Justin Gilbert at Oklahoma State
Year Tackles TFL INT TD PD
2010 18 0.0 0 0 1
2011 59 1.0 5 0 15
2012 63 2.5 0 0 9
2013 42 0.0 7 2 7
Total 182 3.5 12 2 32
via Sports-Reference.com

While general manager Ray Farmer is running the Browns' draft show, the team's ultimate selection of Gilbert has Pettine's fingerprints all over it. And it cannot be denied that another, shutdown-style cornerback was among the Browns' bigger draft priorities this year.

The two trades that led the Browns to Gilbert—and even the Gilbert pick itself—were certainly unexpected. But it's not unexpected that Pettine would have eyes for a corner of Gilbert's style.

It's also a sign that the organization as a whole trusts their new, first-time head coach enough to allow him to get his preferred corner in Round 1, rather than the "expected" quarterback or wide receiver.


This should clear up Pettine's preference for Gilbert.

This isn't the only writer tying Pettine to Gilbert and it probably won't be the last. And, if in fact Haslem was the catalyst for bringing Manziel here, this would be my biggest indictment on Farmer-- his lack of testicular fortitude.

As the GM, if he let others dictate his decision-making for early round picks, he should be criticized and he needs to sack up and shut out the outside noise. Farmer needs to control the draft room and control the selections. I believe I suggested this concern after reports of the two aforementioned players reportedly being someone else's decisions. I get he was a rookie GM and maybe wanted to appease coach and owner but he is charged with making those decision and having the final say.

Now, if he is solely responsible for the two picks, then he also looks bad.

I guess no matter what happened, he looks bad either way.

President of Football Operations-Bill Polian
General Manager/asst. president of football operations-Peyton Manning
Head Coach- Adam Gase
Offensive coordinator- Kliff Kingsbury ( Gregg Knapp)
Defensive Coordinator/ asst. head coach- Chuck Pagano

How does that article clear anything up? Are there quotes from the Pet, Farmer, or Haslam? Or, is it speculation from a reporter?

I don't think it gives any indication at all that Petting personally made the pick of Gilbert. The reason they are saying it has 'Pettine's fingerprints all over it' is because Pettine likes have two shut-down corners, (who doesn't), to make his defense work the way it's designed.

Pettine wants good corners. That's a given. But where is the evidence that Pettine made the call?

It's not there. Not in that article anyway.

It really doesn't matter. If Gibert had played to his potential and to what all the indicators said he would then both Farmer and Pettine would be called geniuses. Since he hasn't worked out as planned then they are a couple of 'non-talent evaluating goats'.

It doesn't clear anything up for me. See my post above.

Do you mean similar speculation to the article you posted saying Bradford wouldn't sign an extension with Cleveland (trying to poo poo on the Cleveland Browns) without any quotes?

Do you mean "that" type of clearing things up?