DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Ben Carson Compares Syrian Refugees to Dogs

whats a good length of time to gage something of this nature?

thats a good question.

I've thought about this but Americans may think it's a little close to the Japanese thing.

Then i wondered how in the world could you keep them there..without them slipping out so to speak.

I hate to give you this answer but man how would you gage a time line like that..hmm.

man DC that is a good question. i believe in the process, even though i don't have much hope of government doing anything correctly. they can't even get a website working right.

that right there is a complex issue. there's no telling how many people will die waiting around for 2 years in that hell hole. but the problem is, we see they have their version of camps in europe. it's not a good situation from what my wife's family is saying.

Here's what the germans did that sort of helped. the military had closed down Barrack's in mannheim, Heidelberg, Bamburg, and other spots.

those apartments for military families was nice, bro. i really miss that place. But anyway, they put a lot of the refugee's in there. a lot of those places just got renovated, so it's really nice right now.

I'm not saying we SHOULD do the same, as i'm not aware of any closed down military bases(maybe there are, i dunno). but for example, there's this apartment complex right near mine that is completely closed down. they could spend some money, fix it up, and put some people in there while they're going through the process. it's just an idea, i understand if the government doesn't wanna do that, though.

i really don't know, but i wouldn't be opposed to something like that. but camps, like a tent city is just bad news. very little hygiene and all that.

I know i sound like a tree hugging hippy, but i don't want to put people in a internment camps, as right now this is an ideology thing, plus hygiene thing. that would send a bad message.

however, if we were to do something like this, there has to be a lot more set up for the best chance to make this the right thing to do. i dunno if anybody wants to hear my ideas or not.

nah it's an issue for sure. not just for this bet, but for the overall situation.

i guess studies are the best way to gage this?

Says the guy that is ignorant of history. I'll take you through some lists here of immigrants that have caused the most problems.

Italian mafia, Russian jews/murder inc, Russian mafia, MS13, Irish mafia, German Nazis, and muslims. They all cause huge problems.

In another post, someone said that they turn to jihad over their circumstances in their country. Right now, there are 93 million people out of work in this country. How long do you think it will take for their jihadi mindset to get sick of being impoverished here?

By the way, your bet is stupid. The timeline might be this year to 30 years from now. The US government does not count refugees, with the exception of the person applying for status. There is no true way to determine if they are actually fleeing from Syria or some other country.

I dont have an answer..I'll give it some thought and see if we can come to an agreement..

Not backing out at all..just trying to agree on something reasonable..I'm kind of like a honey badger thats starving when i see what is what i think is a good opportunity to get paid:)

But this one could be a timely bet..and that is IF they even make it here.

Fair?

The last part is indeed a problem for such a bet..but sometimes I can't help myself..I like stupid bets sometimes:)

Plus I have medicine head at the moment..thinking about what I just said..my wife would be upset by my stupidity hahaha.

so immigrants and refugee's are the same thing now?

you wanna keep inserting your foot in your mouth, or keep going? i'm enjoying this.

first off, the vast majority of groups you just named came through the Visa process, which typically takes a whopping 6 months to go though (my wife went through the program).

refugee's take how long? damn near 2 years.

it's funny because now we're tying into immigration, when you yourself were against illegals, now just listed a bunch of people that came here legally and caused problems.

you're dense, close minded, and now ass backwards. congrats.

and even still, even with the groups you just named, how many russians, germans, irish, and muslims live here peacefully compared to the ones that don't.

my bet isn't stupid. it's just one you can't win.

fair.

My concern about the camp idea.. say you put 1,000 Syrians in a camp. 999 are good, 1 is bad. After 2 years in the camp, how many will that 1 have recruited or swayed? Could it actually make the problem worse?


considering the BRAC realignment and all of the base closures and consolidating that we've done, I can't imagine that we don't have space somewhere.


Unforunately, knowing how government construction works, if they decided to fix it up, it would be 2 years before it was livable anyway. And if you dump money into this complex to make it reasonable to live in, you are also going to get more of those "Well, if we can fix it up for them, why couldn't we have fixed it up for our own or our veterans." Which, you have to admit, is a legitimate argument.


Like I said in my first point, if the conditions are bad enough, we could actually sway them TOWARD hating us more than against it... so it is a tricky situation.

Then all it would take is one, ONE, Abu Ghraib type incident from some overzealous guards... and we could really drive them to hate us, even if they didn't before.

So it's not a perfect plan, just kicking out ideas of how this country could find some kind of compromise, some kind of transition to get them to safety but still not turn them lose in foreign countries until we have some level of comfort with their intentions.

There a crap ton of empty bases/space..but man like you said it would only take 1 serious or even not so serious 'thing' to happen and it would get ugly fast.

And yes you make it nice..alot of people would say they have it better then me..where is mines..And the thing about people squawking about the vets would be loud.

My problem is are those people wrong who would be squeaking about vets??? I feel kind of bad but no I don't FEEL they would be wrong to do so.

Man life is tricky.

I already said, the majority will not. That's obviously been proven. I'm also talking from the early 1900s, when a lot of them didn't have visas.

Our country is granting refugee status to just about any group they can think of, unless they are white Christians. There was that German family that was recently denied, as they wanted to home school their kids, which they couldn't do in Germany. That sounds more like a refugee than most of this current crop of middle easterners. Here is how we are supposed to determine refugees.

A refugee, as defined by Section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), is a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country because of a “well-founded fear of persecution” due to race, membership in a particular social group, political opinion, religion, or national origin. This definition is based on the United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocols relating to the Status of Refugees, which the United States became a party to in 1968. Following the Vietnam War and the country’s experience resettling Indochinese refugees, Congress passed the Refugee Act of 1980, which incorporated the Convention’s definition into U.S. law and provides the legal basis for today’s U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP).

Let me put up this one part again: is a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country because of a “well-founded fear of persecution” due to race, membership in a particular social group, political opinion, religion, or national origin.

These people are fleeing war, not persecution. They belong to the social group and religion that is forcing them out. Most of them are of the nationality of the people forcing them out. Let's face it, if we took in everyone fleeing war, just about everyone would live here.

As for some of your suppositions above, history must not sit well with you. All of those people that either immigrated, legally or illegally, or are refugees have always cause this country problems. That's history, not my opinion. I guess you will never learn from history. It takes roughly 3 generations after becoming an American for them to fully integrate (history and supposition on my part). Or did you never wonder why there are Germantowns, Chinatown, little Italys, and other such neighborhoods?

Your bet is still stupid. I've already said it's not a majority of them. Once again, what ratio are you comfortable with?

I'm dense and closed minded? You're the one that wants to figuratively sit about with your fingers in your ears singing 'la la la la la la' as if the problem of terrorists coming in with refugees will never happen, or will happen at a rate you are comfortable with. Maybe if you whack yourself in the head with a hammer long enough, you're utopian dreams will actually come true.

thats why the process needs to be quick, or as quick as possible.

hell, just think about how pissed we get waiting in the BMV line for 15 minutes. 1st world problems.

and i agree with you, which is why i said before the biggest reason isn't the refugee's themselves, its that we have so many homeless people and children that we need to take care of.

one thing Bush was right about is that in this region, you don't win with bombs in bullets, you win the hearts and minds. I've been really try to get this message to a lot of people.

with the new refugee's, this is what i'd do:

Make them go through the Visa process instead. Build up the apartment complexes that are abandoned, and place them in there.

the Visa process takes about 6 months to go through, so i'd set up a program where they HAVE to go through an english course. within a year, the must understand basic english. anybody adults...or maybe 16 years or old that don't, bye bye.

I would never do this with our americans, but people of typical military age must join the military. however, i'd make it so that they have their own division, sort of like how blacks back in the day had their own units, and then slowly integrate them into normal military units in life. that way we can determine who is loyal throughout the process. anybody who doesn't cut it? bye bye.

also, i'd set up programs to where they do typical farm work, since we have americans who don't wanna do it, and people hate illegals here. if you get selected, and don't want to perform for a set amount of time, even though you're getting paid? bye bye.

throughout this entire process, i don't wanna call it brain washing, but they must go through the process like people getting their citizenship, where they have to learn american history, and demonstrate patriotism. don't want to do it? bye bye.

and on top of it all, i'd make them go through a 5-10 year probationary period. no violent crimes whatsoever. i understand people drink and get into fights, but you know what i mean. no domestic violence, murders, theft/robbery. if it happens, bye bye.

i know there has to be more to it, but thats where i would start.

once again, you can't back your refugee claim, and you're dodging it like the matrix.

my bet is stupid to you because you got called out on your crap, and you know you can't win.

you have no ground to stand on. you've been boiled down to "i already have my mind set.

the majority of people that come to this country are good people. refugee's or immigrants, the vast majority don't do anything wrong.

and since you can't prove otherwise, you're just gonna spin and dodge like a politician.

just admit that you're scared and you lost your american values of toughest and compassion, and we can move on. Ted Cruz will tuck you in at night, seeing as it's clear you need a night light. ask your mom to bring you some warm milk and rub your tummy.

I hope other fellow Christians read this. We can't even agree with ourselves let alone other faiths. This is why people reject Christianity. It should be common sense to not kill anyone under any circumstance.

I've already told you that data has never been properly recorded. Why don't you prove me wrong? There is no data to find on how many refugees become criminals or fight our country, as there is only one applicant for each family.

Yes, your bet is stupid, as why on earth would I bet on that when I've admitted that you hold the cards. There is no data for me to back that up, as there is no data. I never would have played poker if my opponents got to hold all the face cards either, even if they are only imaginary.

I don't dispute the majority are good people. I never have. My premise is that they current crop of refugees are impossible to vet to prove your point. By our own laws, they aren't even refugees. Once again, how many jihadist are you good with letting in? 1-1000?

Now, how is that spin?

I have my mind set and you don't? How much of a hypocrite do you want to be today? I'll admit that fully. My mind has been set. I did my research and came to my conclusions.

I'm not scared at all. My American values are still intact, and I teach them to my kids. I don't let the school teachers, politicians, or anyone else tell me what they are. I already know in the end, our American way will win out over all, and I will be proven right. I'm more concerned with how many of my fellow Americans will have to die before that due to blind liberalism and their 'feel good' policies.

So why don't you go pat yourself on the back, enjoy another bong hit, and put yourself to bed wondering why other countries in the world can't be as great as we are, and be mad at us for being the best. After all, we Americans ended totalitarianism in our country, ended slavery, gave women and people of color the right to vote, won 2 world wars, stopped the largest communist power in the world, and are currently trying to figure out how to win the next great religious war. It's such a damn shame you don't see your fellow countrymen as the good guys, as you have become so complacent in your views.

I have data for you.

Just look up and see the damage done to America over the years by the...

"Bleeding Heart Liberals"

I see it every day on the news. I got swish posting after seeing a TV piece on jews the US turned away, then wanting to say we have a history of taking in refugees. Hypocrisy. The leading democrat running for the presidency used to openly state she was against gay marriage, now for a few million votes, she will tell them how much she loves them. More hypocrisy. This I was for the bill before I was against the bill crap really needs to stop. It's as bad at the lunatic lefties in colleges screaming for special rights while trying to deny others' their rights.

Well considering Muslims and their text didn't exist till over 600-800 years AFTER Christ and thousands of years after the old testament. I think its very safe to say the older text are the original and true scriptures.

LOL I mean seriously how do the Jews pervert the original texts when they are the ones who wrote them? Or might it be easier to believe that the new religion on the block didn't like the message of the Old testament and so they changed it to serve their own ends.

C'mon man!(Best Dion Sanders voice)

I probably have more respect for atheists than I do muslims. At least they already accept they will be burned into oblivion for denying the salvation of Christ. AKA cease to exist. I mean if they would rather be obliterated than forgiven and have eternal life, well that is their choice. Muslims I feel worse for because they are flat out being cheated by the people they trust.

Under any circumstance? Are your sure your talking about God or jesus here? Jesus had no problems telling his apostles to take up the sword to defend themselves. When the told Peter not to kill the guards it was because he didn't want his disciples to get killed along with him.

God is perfectly fine with death as a judgement for a crime or whenever he feels the need to punish people, even entire nations. Just ask the Jew how many times he has punished them in the old testament for being disobedient. He is also adamant that fathers protect their families.

No God doesn't want people committing murder or killing the innocent outside of His wrath and Judgement but God is by no stretch of the imagination a pacifist.

Swish who care if some Jews or anyone else got turned away. Our country can deny whoever they feel like. There is no rules that the USA MUST accept all applicants.

Are you one of those harlot stoning type of Christians? You're making it sound as if I think killing in self defense is not okay. Death shouldn't be allowed if it's for the sake of religion.

I think the original wording was 'Thou shalt not murder', not kill. If someone is threatening the lives of me and my family, I should just let them do it instead of staining my hands with their blood?

Never mind. I just saw your post above mine.

Would you go around killing people if you think God told you to? It's nut jobs like that that I'm referring to.

God and I have yet to have that conversation, or any conversation for that matter. Until then, please see my edited comment above yours.

dodge dodge dodge. this is comical.

My apologies. I thought you made your comment even after you read mine.

You obviously have no idea just how nonsensical I find you.

did please don't claim to be a christian or have any moral high ground.

you have none. i highly doubt whatever god you pray to thinks its ok for you to turn away those who need help the most.

if thats the case, then thats one crappy god.

find a post that says i care.

That's what you get for posting at the same time as me.

Ditto.

Lol if God told me to start killing then I would but that would have to be one VERY clear conversation.

I honestly think God is just letting us stew in our own mess till things escalate to fulfill his prophecy. The wages of sin is death and America will pay its price no matter what I do or not do. This is a generation lost to the lusts of the flesh. They are going to do whatever they want to do because they want to and they don't care who it hurts even when it's themselves.

Thier children will either follow in their footsteps or learn from their mistakes but I suspect most will follow in making the same mistakes of their parents and the cycle will get worse and worse until something bad enough happens to wake people back up and drive them to seek out God again.

noted. however keep in mind that since you have no argument, i'm just gonna chalk it up to you being scared and having no backbone.

man, our country has turned into a bunch of wimps. this is why i said the terrorist already won.

to everybody in this thread that said we need to be caution. i completely understand

but for those of you (read: Erik) that have allowed yourself to be scared like a bunch of little kids, allowed terrorism to change who you are as americans....

hide in a bunker, cry let the grown people take care of business. its odd because it's coming from the older generation.

40 tells me all the time you guys were tough as nails, didn't cower from any enemy, and stayed true to your values?

what happened?

True and I believe and help the homeless American Veterans I see every day. They need help the most.

Next on the list is homeless people who are not Vets.

After that comes kids who were badly burned and need our help thru the Shriners.

Oh yea, somewhere, way down my list of those who need my help the most are refugees from a country my country is at war with.

Ah, so because you can't see my point of view, I have no argument.

Quite honestly, even though I know I am in the majority opinion of Americans, I still think my opinion should be defended from those that try to undermine it, no matter how facetious and catty they get. BTW, I love it when someone stoops to insults to get their point across. That truly means they have little to no argument.

Once again, I am not scared. I don't think any of them should be here without proper and in depth vetting. Gosh, that must make me one cruel American. To quote the ridiculous liberal point on guns, 'if it saves just one life'... So, if you think that bringing in a lot of people makes you look like a new messiah to foreigners, instead of just foolish (read swish), please continue.

I think helping those in need comes after the needs of your own family first. Providing a safe home for my family is one of the top priorities IMHO. Inviting people of a terrorist nation a free pass to come into our country is flat out irresponsible.

Now if you want to send them aid to support them being housed in another country I don't really mind that but I would still rather spend that money helping poor US citizen first.

I know and relate to plenty of muslims and I have never caused them any grief except maybe when they asked me questions about my faith because I talk straight with people.

I also promise you that I have done more to help the poor than you could possibly imagine. I just choose to believe helping a people who declared my country as an enemy to be pure folly.

In a perfect world we'd train these refugees to fight back, but that'd probably lead to more complications in the future.

No swish I am not scared in a bunker. I just think if your a citizen of a foreign country that has open animosity towards the USA and you like to celebrate in the streets when disasters hit the USA then you don't deserve and most definitely should NOT expect aid from the people you have declared is an enemy. Why is that so hard for you to fathom?

Syria is an enemy of the United States so just let them rot.