DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel continued

I share your opinion at this point it would have been better for the team to punish JM with a huge fine and extra work during practice. If the the reasoning for him not to party is that it hurts his game play wouldn't it serve a better I told you so to let him play and if his game is bad then you have that see this what happens when you party.

Yet it's okay for you to do it?

Listening to Flips presser today, I really got the impression Johnny may get a chance at another start.

Both Pet and Flip say they aren't giving up on Johnny.That tends to make me feel he isn't going anywhere.

Man..I know you havent attacked me for my view point..yet..but man the way YOU of all people talk about someone acting like middle-school anything is real rich.

You probably keep a lot of lurking people from posting..The first link I clicked on this side of the board to join in on the conversation was you calling someone an ahole except you didnt spell ahole you spelled out the whole freaking cuss word.

And I thought good God what am I thinking about even posting on this side of the board.

What I've read everyone attacks you doesnt stay on topic acts like middle-school girls and you generally act like your the middle school child..hell 3rd grade may be to high of a comparison of your behavior.

Just saying guy..your debating skills reek of juvenile intellect.

Good God Toad please come back and post in this place...Diam..and some of the others that left.

I know I'm the idiot my opinion means nothing..I'm a middle-school girl and whatever other nonsense you want to call me.

While you post a ton on this board keep it going..I think you turn off a lot of other fresh blood from joining the discussion. JMHO bash away.

Certainly agree with that - it will be very hard to trust him now. He should have never been in that position though. I'm not exonerating Johnny at all, rules were laid down that he didn't follow.

The problem I have is the rules were ridiculous. A poster above asked how do I know the other team members weren't allowed to go to a bar, lol. Yeah, right. No one else from the team had any fun on their off week. They all went church, volunteered 24/7, and kissed babies. Give me a break.

As I've said, the problem I have is the rule was stupid. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure, he should have challenged it but that would have had the same end result I suspect. I also, as stated numerous times, hate, hate, hate that he lied. Bad choice on his part, and he is paying for it. Nothing I can do about it but voice my opinion, which certainly is in the minority Fine by me, it's unusual I don't agree with the majority of the posters on the board.

Just wondering how you know that wasn't already done? Didn't pettine say they do that kind of stuff when Gilberts road rage incident?

Is it possible that it did not work and this was the next step?

Nope.

+1

I got the same impression, Billy...

Once it became clear that Manziel is just putting on a dog and pony show while he lies through he teeth I lost all sympathy for him. I'd let austin take a crack at it and see how the young man does to see if he can remain a back up for us while we draft yet another new QB in this draft.

Anybody who assumes this is what's best for the team deserves to watch the Browns we've seen lately. I don't care about any of the spin they put on this move, it was stupid. Can't believe this FO.

Frankly, it just isnt any of Pet's business what Johnny did if he didnt break any laws. He didnt do one think to hurt the team. He is a pompous little ass with drinking problems but he did not drink and drive, he wasnt in a fight. the team is just going down a slippery slope. What free agents are you gonna bring in now?

My boss asks me what i did on saturday and I was out partying my ass off and I say I stayed home watched tv, do I get demoted when he finds out i was actually out partying.

Look the smart thing for Johnny would have been just to lay low and solidify his spot but he is a bit of a moron and he went partying for 2 days before coming back early and focusing on next weeks game.

Pet is overstepping the boundaries of coach and Johnny being in rehab doesnt change things one bit either. Pet can say what he wants, but he never wanted to play Johnny and needed a way to justify going back to McCown and Johnny being a moron gave him some ammo to use.

Anyway. Johnny is an idiot, and Pet probably set the Browns back another 5 years.

I don't know. Obviously you were doing something you know your boss didn't want you to do so.... maybe.

Maybe you should just get a job that is more in line with your partying lifestyle?

Read what you wrote...a smokescreen? Do you REALLY believe it's going to cover up how bad the Browns played? Wow.

My point IS that a good supervisor, boss, coach, leader should not treat people "EQUALLY" when it comes to their development. They should be treated "FAIRLY", which is a big difference. Manziel was given the starting job; Manziel was put on notice not to be a distraction (AGAIN); Manziel promised his coaches there wouldn't be any distractions; Manziel was a distraction (AGAIN); Manziel lied to his coaches; Manziel was punished "FAIRLY".

Manziel is presumably an alcoholic...an alcoholic. Why did he put himself in a compromising position by hanging out with partiers and drinkers? Why take that risk? Makes no sense. But if that's what he wants, then he gets what may come as a result.

Old article, but Manziel's own Father worried about his behavior:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-come-unraveled

Even though I don't like it, my Browns got this one right.

Johnny Manziel's Browns coaches say QB could play again this season

BEREA, Ohio -- With Johnny Manziel placed on the shelf, and with his credibility with the Cleveland Browns lower than it’s ever been, it’s worth looking at what he’s given the Browns on the field:

He has five starts.

He went 1-4 in those games.

He has played in parts of six other games.

He has completed 57.7 percent of his 163 passes (league average: 63.1 percent).

He averaged 6.8 yards per attempt (league average: 6.7).

He has five touchdowns and four interceptions.

He was sacked 17 times.

He fumbled six times, losing three.

He missed two preseason games with elbow tendinitis.

His passer rating is 78.5 (league average: 88.4).

His career high for passing yards in a start was 372 yards. His career low was 80 in his first start.

The records of other quarterbacks in their first two seasons with the Browns: Brandon Weeden 5-15, Colt McCoy 6-15, Charlie Frye 6-12, Brady Quinn 3-9 and Brian Hoyer 10-6.

A full timeline of Manziel with the Browns is available here.

Even with this, and even with the reality that Manziel lied to his coach, the Browns say he could find his way back to the field again this season.

“Josh McCown is our starter,” coach Mike Pettine said. “Austin Davis is our two. Johnny is our three. I won’t speak beyond that right now. Things can change. As far as declaring a starter for the rest of the year, we will see how this plays out in the short-term.”

“You know, you don’t close doors on anything,” offensive coordinator John DeFilippo said. “You never say never. To say Johnny won’t play again this season, I’m not going to say that.”

Pettine and DeFilippo were probably the two people most involved in the decision to demote Manziel.

“I think all of us as people, myself included, we’re all a work in progress every day,” DeFilippo said. “Some of us deal with different issues. We know Johnny’s issues. We’re working with him every day. And there’s no doubt in my mind Johnny’s going to bounce back.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...ain-this-season

What's wrong with this picture?


He has five starts.

He went 1-4 in those games. The records of other quarterbacks in their first two seasons with the Browns: Brandon Weeden 5-15, Colt McCoy 6-15, Charlie Frye 6-12, Brady Quinn 3-9 and Brian Hoyer 10-6.

lOL The Pro Pot meeting thing was kinda funny. I have a client.. Big company. WHen I place people there, they need to have drug tests and background checks before they start work.

So, just before the vote on Pot I happened to be over there and asked a question. What if pot is legalized and I give a person a drug screen and they have pot in their system, can I go ahead with the placement? They answer was a resounding NO.

In other words, even if it becomes legal, an employer can still say you can't work for them.

So I checked it out and yup, there are ways to make that so.

I don't think any of us that are upset about this disagree he did it to himself.

What we are upset about is that Daddy Pettine overstepped the boundaries of what is acceptable for a coach to tell a player what he can/can't do. It still blows my mind that people think what he did on his off week was a distraction? Please explain how it was?!? Mike made it into a full blown circus. Way to go.

This is NOT what is best for the future of the team. That is why we are upset.

Thanks for proving my point.

I was not talking about other posters. I was talking about the Browns. A few posters decided to make this about me rather than the Browns. You piled on.

I think you are dead wrong about driving new posters away. Again, I didn't rip other posters. I ripped the Browns, but several of you felt the need to make this personal. It happens all the time and THAT IS EXACTLY why others are afraid to post on here.

Now, I will get back to the point of the thread: The Browns as an organization continue to make dumb decisions. This latest decision drew more national scrutiny and paints the team as being inconsistent w/their policies. I would be all for benching or cutting Manziel if he had:

--been suspended numerous times.

--been arrested after the suspensions.

--beat women up.

--raped a woman or women.

However, he has done none of those things. Thus, I think the Browns have made yet another dumb decision. These decisions are embarrassing.

--Texting the sidelines during games.

--Having the team president and GM break down film w/the coaches.

--Telling the coaches who to play.

--Meddling to the point where a very good coach creates a 32 pt presentation to seek his release from his contract.

--The GM being suspended for four games during the season.

--News breaking of trading some of your better players right before a game.

--Inconsistent handling of players.

I could go on, but it is what it is and frankly, I am sickened and exhausted by the actions, behavior, and attitude of those in charge.

I couldn't disagree with you more Columbus.

The Browns have invested a ton of money in this kid. They've also put up with a bunch of Bull.

But they stood by him, defended him, gave him one opportunity after another and just when you would have thought that all that faith in him was about to pay off, he goes off and gets stupid....THEN LIES ABOUT IT.

It's not JUST about what he did on his own time but it's more about him being dishonest with his team, his coach, his teammates and the owner. Not to mention the fans.

I can't help but wonder, what would have happened if he had just been honest with Pettine?

I haven't agreed with much of what the Browns have done lately, but this one, I'm with them all the way.

He deserves what's happening to him.

I wont drag it out any further then this because it is a football thread...but you either didnt read what I wrote or its just spin..

I've read plenty of what you have wrote..heck I agreed with you in the cavs thread..but u absolutely do call people names bad ones for a what is supposed to be a family friendly board. And I can assure you I am not the only one hesitant to post on this board do to your name calling Hell I gave you the example in my post.

And if I proved your point..this middle-school girl will just take what you say with a grain of salt and try to weave around you to not bump heads..I don't do well with juvenile intellect and don't want to get banned from here..I like it here so far.

Ok Vers I said my piece I'm willing to end it here.Just pointing out what the first thing I saw when I went to post for the first time over on this side of the board and have read many of your past posts

Deal??

Pettine is too stupid and incompetent to even have a PLAN. I think some folks are way over estimating his intelligence.

He has no clue what he's doing. JM on the bench, fine, whatever. That doesn't change our 2-8 record with NEARLY the worst defense in the league (from a defensively minded head coach).

Pettine has been terrible for a long time now, not just with this decision.

Oh, I'm mad as he'll at all of them. Mike made the initial decision and the other two knuckleheads agreed with him. I'm just as mad at them, but Mike got the ball rolling.

If that us the plan then the plan is stupid. Sit him for 2 games? Then we have 4 left to evaluate him. Absolutely dumb. I swear there are people on this board who could run this franchise better.

If this is true, than Mike Pettine is a "liar" and he should be demoted.

Pet clearly said he talked to his coaches first and they decided to bench Manziel and they then ran it by Haslam and Farmer.

And that makes Farmer and Haslam liars by omission, too.

How about we get rid of them all?

As soon as the Ratbirds put a pounding on us Monday night in that PRIMETIME game Haslam will clean house. Yawn

No, they don't have a lot of money tied up in him which is a good thing. A lot of teams put up with a lot more bull than Johnny has given the Browns, excluding last year which I am willing to give a second chance on if he is able to be elite (which I don't think he can, but would like to know).


I guess as a fan I want to win. I don't care for liars, but if he can play football I don't care if he is the biggest liar on the planet. I want to win, if you're benching liars I've got a feeling half the league wouldn't be playing. Lets take a survey and ask how many NFL players use pot. Bet we'd have a whole lot of liars. Let's ask how many cheat on their wives/girlfriends. Bet there are quite a few.


Probably would have been better off.


I think this is the most idiotic decision they've made to date.

I'm somewhat hoping for this.

At least I would like to see Pettine gone.

Him and O'Neil "reviewed tape" over the bye and said no major changes are being made to the D. Come again?

The only guy that sounds like he has an ounce of intelligence in his pressers is Flip. I would actually go so far to say that if Flip were the HC we'd have a better record. I think he will be a head coach in this league. And possibly a good one.

I have actually been very impressed with Flip and O'Connel atleast they dont sound like morons. I think Flip can out think himself a bit on the sideline but most young coordinators will do that. I do believe he has a very bright future in this league.

Pet has always come off as a bit of a dolt "using one of Peen's words" lol.

I think you are forgetting about last year when Johnny was late for a team meeting and treatment for his injury and also when he was given the starting job last year admitted to not being ready plus everything else he did last year. I would imagine that Pett and Ray sat down with Johnny after the season and told him that if he wanted to be a part of this team there were certain guidelines he had to follow and apparently he failed in following them, which gives Pett all the right to do what he did. Just like if you were to fail at work and your boss told you that he wanted you to do things a certain way from there on and you didn't listen.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I promise you, if Pettine and the coaching staff wouldn't have taken this action and it was later discovered that he lied to the team, then folks would be all over the team for not benching him.

No win situation. All because some spoiled brat wants his way without regard to all those that are counting on him and without regard to those that have stood by him, given him chance after chance.

If I had an employee that did that to me... I'd fire him in a heartbeat.

And yes, they do have millions tied up him him.. Perhaps not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but still a lot of money.

R

vers...believe what you want..but I know that most NFL teams have a chain of command that runs to the top where situations are discussed first, before the public is aware of them.

Just did some quick research and I see nothing to support your claim that Pettine and his coaches decided to bench JM, then run it by Haslam and Farmer.

Show me the story that supports your claim.

[u][/u]

j/c

I have no idea why some posters insist on putting this incident in a vacuum. How they can compare JFF's actions to other players who have not wasted an entire year of their contract with addiction issues.

Did other players probably party over the bye week? Most certainly. Did any of those other players waste an entire year of their expensive contracts because of addiction? This team paid JFF for an entire wasted year last season. Yet people think that has no bearing on why the team puts special limitations on JFF's partying and accountability? It amazes me that people refuse to see this.

I believe Pettine is a very poor coach. However, that has nothing to do with the JFF situation. If I had wasted an entire year paying a player who put his partying ahead of the team, I would certainly set limitations on that player. I would expect honesty and accountability from that player.

I wouldn't make ludicrous comparisons to other players that didn't waste an entire season and go to rehab to get better.

I too wanted to see JFF play to see what we have. But seeing his actions in this incident already tells me what we have. I'm not interested.

mac, I don't see how his continual behavior and the fact that it's so serious the team felt the need to demote him helps his trade value.

I'm willing to forgive last year. Apparently that is the sticking point with a lot of people, and that's fine. Guess no one on here has ever been forgiven for being young and dumb.

This year he has done some dumb things, but from all reports he is concentrating on on football. It is idiotic to sit someone that needs to be evaluated - time is precious, real game experience is going to end soon.

People keep comparing this to a real world job - it isn't. Guys that have done a lot worse than Johnny are employed and even idolized. Of course Johnny would be fired at just about any other job, as I recon a substantial amount of other NFL players would be.

Like it or not, talent is king and I for one would like to see if Johnny has it or not. I personally don't think he does, but I'd like to know.

He just put up some sellable numbers. Sit him, keep him nice and safe and trade his butt to Jerry Jones in the off season. Don't further compound the mistake of drafting him by playing him and letting him get injured.

I'll agree with the statement about talent, and that we don't know exactly what JM has in that department just yet. But here's what we DO know about JM:

-Last year he didn't have the support or respect from his teammates (glaringly obvious on the field)
-Given the statements on this issue from Hartline and Thomas, it would appear after this incident with lying he doesn't have much support or respect from his teammates.

Hoyer may never have JM's talent, but this team absolutely loved the and respected the guy. That was obvious.

Here's what respectfully I think you are missing about the relevance of how detrimental him lying is to the team, because it DOES negatively impact the team. HIs lying shows that he hasn't matured, has little integrity, little ethics, and can't be trusted. Talent questions aside, how can you as a billion dollar company feel comfortable by putting someone like that in THE most important position and be confident? You can't because when you factor in JM's particular issues/struggles, every week you'll be wondering if this is the weekend he screws up and the League has to get involved.

I'd bet that if he had been honest, he'd probably still be starting Monday night. I really think this is less about him partying and more about his integrity. If he lies about something so trivial, how in anyone's right mind can they trust him with greater responsibility?

I'm willing to give him a pass in terms of my judgement about him for last year too, but lying over stupid crap shows that he hasn't changed all that much from then.

You guys say its not "Daddy Pettine's" job, and you're right. It's not. His job is not to waste time coddling players. Its not his job to bend over backwards to give a kid a chance that really doesn't want it. If Pet just stuck to his job, JM would still be buried on the depth chart. Hell, he wouldn't even be on the team this year to begin with.

With Romo out for the season can Dallas get Manziel now ?