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I think Johnny showing he can be our franchise qb in the next few games is way, way more important that getting a higher draft pick.

I’m excited to see what Johnny can do in the next 3 weeks. Two road games against Seattle and KC and then home with Pitt is going to be one tall task given Hartline is out for the year and his #2 and 3 WR weren’t on the roster to start the season.

I believe in Manziel, I think if (which is a big one)he gets his head on straight he can be the guy to stop all the madness at QB. He has the arm, he has off the charts instincts on the field, feels pressure better than any QB I think I’ve ever seen, the way he navigates traffic is simply amazing. It all comes down to him putting in the work and I think if he shows the team, what he has shown this entire year sans, one bye week cell phone video, he can be the franchise guy.


Those are a lot of if’s and there is a long gap between the draft and the end of our season.

1. How does he handle the pressure of three very good teams in almost impossible circumstances with the WR’s and roster in general in the coming weeks.
2. How does he handle his business from week 17 to draft day?


Have we seen Johnny turn the page? Or is this another mirage?

It's a good gamble, one way or the other.

If he can show it, then we don't NEED the #1 pick.
If he can't, then we are probably losing out the rest of the way, anyway, and we stand a shot of getting the #1 pick back.
If he doesn't show it, yet we somehow still win games and/or miss out on the #1 Overall.... well, it probably doesn't matter, because early guesses are there isn't a QB worth a pick that high, anyway, so we take whichever pick we get and roll with it.

Exactly. Hey, if there was an Andrew Luck or Payton Manning available, then that would be different, but I don't think there is.

sounds good- I'll look for your post in the proper section. I'll say that Cook is a total jerk. There are articles about it.

I'd argue we don't need the #1 pick as there is no clear #1 guy. Might be more beneficial to gain some confidence for the young guys and build a winning environment?

I get worried at a senior QB not being named captain plus I could give a shit where he's from.

I agree with you on that entirely.

I would love nothing more than for Manziel to come in over these last few games and play like an upper level QB.

I wrote this on the other Manziel thread, and I'll post it here too.

I think that for all of his faults, Pettine has handled Manziel very well. I think that he has pushed Manziel to improve in areas he most needs to improve in. I think that Manziel is one of those kids who thinks that he is perfect, and that he knows it all. He needed to be broken down, so he could be built back up the right way. An NFL QB has to be able to improvise, and make plays when the whole play goes to pieces, but he also has to make the plays that are there to be made. When a play calls for the throw to go to the RB for 8-12 yards, and that read is there, then that is the right play to take. I think that this is where Manziel has shown growth. Manziel has lessons to learn, that he did not want to learn .... but he has learned them nonetheless. At least some of the credit for that has to go to Pettine and the coaching staff.

I will add this: There are players who, like most people, have different motivations, and ways of being motivated. In sales, there are some people who are motivated primarily by money for the sake of having money, others who want to provide for their family, others who want recognition, and others who just want to enjoy the feeling of being the best. (among many other motivational factors) The sales manager has to identify the motivation factors for those who are not performing, as well as top performers,and decide a course of action to get the best out of them.

A head coach is no different. He has to deal with a myriad of personalities, and figure out what motivates each one of them. It seems, by looking in from the outside, that Pettine has figured out which of Manziel's buttons to push to get him to work to improve.

Pettine would still be pressing the Josh Mc button if he hadn't been injured.

All very good points. But..I look at it the other way.

I think Pet has done everything he can to undermine JM. Like how the Shanney's were wrong in the way they treated RGIII. Pet threw JM out there with busted ribs and really just beaten up just to keep JM off the field. And then made up all these rules for the bye-week cause he knew JM would mess it up. I think JH had to step in to avoid JM from just giving up. I think flip has helped JM alot more than Pet. IMO

funny how he did not "mess up" before he was drafted... and isnt that something how the Paparazzi left him alone those 3 months before the draft....pffft

I doubt Pettine made any special rules up...

No at all

I don't even care for the kid, but man,come on. I think Pet soured on him last year, and is doing everything he can to keep him out. I might be wrong probably am, but after yesterday and thinking about JH being on the sideline, I think jimmy has taken control of his Team. At least I hope.

If manziel wasn't such a screw up to begin with, he'd have been playing for 3 weeks already.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand. he lied to his coach. How can you expect his coach to trust him?

All he had to say was, be safe and stay out of trouble.

End of story. He got filmed at a club, big whoop, yeah he lied, but the point is, he shouldn't have had to say anything. This is just Pet trying to shift the focus off our record and on JM. Sorry I'm really Bitter about how Pettine has acted this year.

Josh played pretty darn good. Much better than expected to be honest.

Manziel will have started nine games in his career by the end of this season. That is not enough time to know if he is actually good or not. Add in all the off the field issues and it just makes for more uncertainty.

We would be fools to pass on a QB we think is good because of Manziel.

Depends on what they think of Manziel. Drafting one you think is good, if you already think Manziel is good.. is foolish. Because drafting another QB in the first round is basically giving up on Manziel. People can say what they want about having 2 QBs in camp, pick the best one, best case we end up with 2 good QBs.. blahblahblah.. it NEVER plays out that way.

The playing of davis last week against the Bengals and being all giddy about his performance like it was the greatest thing he ever saw took me out of the corner that said he just liked McCown and wanted McCown to play. After the Bengals, I saw a coach that had no desire to ever see Manziel on the field again. he was forced to play Johnny and its why he went on a rant about not everyone in the building being on the same page.

Johnny playing well is more an indictment of Pet than something he should be praised for. Pet and Shanny spent last year trying to change his mechanics made him a robot. O'Connel got him back to being a natural thrower. Johnny never picked up the system last year but he worked with Flip and McCown to learn this one. he still doesnt know it but Flip was smart enough to adapt his system for Johnny.

I think Pet was using Johnny to make Farmer look even worse.

I am on the opposite side of the coin here ( who would believe ) lol .. I think that Pattine is the bigger problem than JM .

cfrs15, respect you but couldn't disagree more. Your recent post have been catching my attention more for the common theme than anything else; I think you want one of the QBs in this draft and JFF is in the way of your agenda (not that you me or anybody here has any real say in the matter). Pretty sure you like Goff.

Personally I'd take Manziel over any QB in this draft. I think the QB ceiling in this draft is Christian Ponder.

I'm not sure what to think, but did it ever occur to you that maybe Pettine played Davis against the Bengals because the Bengals are pretty darn good? He realized that holding Manziel out an extra week to play against the 49ers actually gave him a chance to look better?

If he played Davis last week, and was giddy about his performance, and if he hates Manziel so much, then why let Manziel play in the one game where he has a chance to look really good?

I agree. That's why this season was a waste. We had to find out was Manziel was, but (for a variety of reasons) we did not. Now we are stuck between relying on a player with tons of baggage and who we don't know is good or not or drafting a new player.

What a waste.

I dont think Pet is that smart to be honest lol. I believe haslam in their meeting after the game put in an ultimatum of play Johnny.

I see pet as another Romeo Crennel. He just isnt smart enough to make good decisions.

Yep. I think Pettine was told play him or pack now.

I think this will be the key question. Does the current regime or a possible new regime think any of the QBs coming out are any good.

My personal hope is Manziel plays well these last three games, and we commit to him. That will be a tough a sell considering his off the field baggage, but I would be willing to take that chance, especially if the guys coming out aren't slam dunks.

I wanted to note some other things I really liked about Manziel yesterday that I think will bode well for the future:

--He may be an idiot off the field with his choices, but I think he's incredibly smart. In his limited game action, he has made very few mistakes. He has taken the coaching and translated it to the field. I still don't recall a single pass batted this year and he's the shortest QB in the league. As a football player, Manziel is extremely intelligent. It seemed like Weeden got every fifth pass batted, and he was 6'3", because he had no idea what he was doing.

--You can actually see the game slow down for Manziel after a throw away year and only four starts this year without getting much first team work in training camp. I think people are underestimating how remarkable this is. To piggy back off the first point, that takes smarts.

--I've often said that in order to get this thing turned around it was going to take a QB with a special talent AND a special attitude. Manziel has a certain edge to him that you can tell from his interviews. I think he wants people to doubt him, and I think he relishes the opportunity to prove people wrong. How many wimps have we had at QB? How many have been super wimps mentally? Make a mistake and hang their heads. DA, Weeden, McCoy, Hoyer. Manziel makes mistakes and shakes them off. He's a competitor. The Browns need competitors. Desperately.

--He's a natural leader on the field. How many times have we seen our wimpy QBs act like a boss on the sideline like Manziel was doing yesterday? I'm of the belief, and Grossi talked about this on the RBS, that the QB has super natural abilities to impact how both the offense and defense play. These guys believed they had a chance to win yesterday, and Manziel was acting like a boss on the sideline. Really awesome sign that speaks to his natural born leadership abilities.

--His elusiveness is special. Last year, he looked like he didn't have any because he wasn't working out and taking his job seriously. It looked like he left his athleticism in college and didn't have enough for the pros. Well, we can put that to bed. His escapability is special. He can really demoralize a team with that. Look at how Brooks came unglued yesterday. The 9ers couldn't believe they were losing to Manziel and mentally lost it.

We need to see these next three games obviously, but I think we will regret cutting bait on him, if we do.

We need to commit to someone. See it through for once. Please.

If that's the case, then he is smarter than we think.

I'm not one that believes in conspiracy theories, but I'm also not one who believes in a lot of coincidences either.

Timeline;

Sunday Haslam holds a meeting with everyone.

Monday Reports leaked that JFF was named starter when Pettine said starter hadn't been named yet.

Tuesday JFF named the starter.

Now this could simply be a combination of coincidences, but then again this could be something with bigger implications.

Sunday, Browns play the most complete game they've played all year.

I understand your post, but what about Cardale Jones?

Let's face it, after his three game stretch last year, people were pimping him as the QB of the future. I've seen it here too many times. People look at a small sample size and start naming a QB the second coming.

I'm not saying that's what will happen with JFF. I'm also not saying this coaching staff handled the QB situation correctly. Had we seen an entire season of JFF, we would have a large enough body of evidence to better gauge what we have in him. That's simply didn't happen.

I believe a four game stretch is certainly not enough evidence to base the future of a QB on.

You certainly can't argue with the results. How we arrived there is the biggest question I have. And I really don't have a clue one way or the other. But I do wonder.

I've seen enough of Jones to know he is a project at best. I'd take him as a 6th round guy, flier, project type.

He does not process information quickly, he doesn't see the field with clarity further compounding the information. He has mechanically issues with his delivery causing over and under throws on mid range passes.

Beyond all of that, He is sort of a knucklehead and even more so than Bosa (who I also think is weird and aloof) he has shown time and time again to let his emotions over ride his judgement.

Combine all of that objective analysis and this is why I never listen to Buckeye fans near draft day. Yes, we absolutely need more Buckeyes on this team....look at Pittsburgh, but it shouldn't be high profile players like Pryor or Jones, it should be someone who drops like Adolphus Washington.

I know I wasn't asked but I'm bored.

That may be an obvious thing to say now, but after that three game stretch last year, Jones looked like money.

I knew then that such a small window isn't something you can actually use to judge a QB. Same with a four game window with JFF.

Exactly. People will say they know what Manziel is at the end of this season. They are lying.

I agree but our last 3 games are against teams playing for seeding or playing to get into the playoffs. All 3 are going to be extremely motivated to win the games against us.

I certainly don't expect us to dominate any of these teams like we did the 49ers but hopefully our run game and our defense can show up enough to keep them close so we can execute a game plan and see how it plays out.

We won't know everything 3 weeks from now, but we will know a lot more than we do right now.

The problem is, there is no middle ground here. If you pass on a QB with the first pick, you are basically saying we are rolling with Manziel next year... if you take a QB you are basically saying that Manziel is done... I suppose you could take a QB in the second or third, which might be the dumbest of all options because that's not really making a decision, that's more like HOPING something works out.

I don't disagree with any of this.

But here's the rub. Let's say Manziel goes out and wins the next three games and plays good doing it. You still don't have a large enough sample size. But at some point, we have to commit to someone. All 31 other teams do. In the cosmic universe of Cleveland, we cannot ... we will not allow ... anyone to grow and develop. If you aren't perfect out of the gate and perfect every single game, you are a bust.

Goff, Lynch, Jones or whoever isn't going to play any better than Manziel did yesterday. And when their first games suck, they will get run out of town. This is the perfect opportunity to actually get behind a guy and see it through.

That's easier said than done considering Manziel's off the field baggage, but the point is still the same. We need to back a horse and let that person grow and develop for once.

Perfect. No one can say it any better.

And this is why Manziel needed to play over McCown from the start of the season!