DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Manziel Manziel

From Swish:



Manziel's chance at being a bust is much higher than most QBs because of his off the field issues.

And why the FO didn't care if he signed somewhere else as a FA.

Or it's because BB has only kept 3 QB's on the roster twice since 2008.

Nah ... he was let go because Hoyer wasn't a team player. BB knew Hoyer was a better QB than Mallet but didn't care because he wasn't a team player and said Buh Bye

I don't think it matters what was said prior to bye week. He did what he did which in my eyes isn't all that bad really. But to flat out lie to your coach, that's a HUGE no no.

Sorry, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Right, Bill Belichick expected his undrafted back-up with 2 years of NFL experience on the bench and 40 NFL pass attempts to mentor his new 3rd round back-up rookie QB.. that happens all the time.

We still need some big guys to protect manziel,or any QB behind center,and the running game needs to improve.
Dont waste the top pick..this year is a write off.
I just hope Johnny stays healthy,the last 3 games.

No, I am not sticking up for him. I don't like the fact he lied either. What I don't like is it was a non issue and somehow JM felt like the coach would feel it was. I get it....coach doesn't like Johnny Football. He wants Johnny Manziel. This never should have even gone to this point. Pet needs to care only abbout what happens on the field unless his players actions might keep him off the field. Since when are you in favor of a boss telling a employee what they need to do when off the field, on a week off?


As for Haslam, I'll take him over Lerner if for no other reason, he has a passion for football and is competitive in nature. Lerner wasn't very competitive and didn't really like football.

I've been thinking that, if the Browns aren't going to keep him on the roster after this season, they should offer him an assistant QB coach position. He may want to try to continue playing, but if he's ready to transition, we would be wise to keep him here.

j/c

You watch Manziel will make it real hard to make the decision to cut or trade. I also bet Browns finish well last three games taking them out of position to draft one of the two best QBs. Leaving Haslam with a tough decision whether to blow it up or not.

He'll sit on it to long then decided to dump and play catch up with the cupboard of FO talent empty.

me? would rather have someone like jake delhomme doing it. not only did he help colt but he also hung out with him after hours... a QB that was could really play at one point in time and knows the effort it takes....

For the guys who still feel let down by Johnny for screwing up last year and the lesser mistakes this year, it will take more than a few games to change their minds. I totally understand that. But if he builds on last week and plays well the rest of the way, I don't see how you are going to call for Johnny to be cut and a QB to be selected in Round 1.If he plays bad, or even worse, screws up off the field, then you're all geniuses and I will admit it.

I keep reading debate between those who agree with Pet's handling of Johnny, and those who don't. One thing I don't see from those who disagree is a recognition of the alcoholism/rehab/recovery dynamic. I know there will be some who ask "who said anything about alcoholism?" While no one may have said publicly, that is what rehab is for, addressing one's inability to control their drinking, alcoholism. If one is indeed alcoholic, then they CANNOT drink...period. There is no "learning to control" without abstinence. One does not go to rehab to learn how to drink, but not to excess. One goes to learn how to live without drinking. I don't know what was said/agreed/signed upon his release from the rehab center, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Johnny agreed to adhere to a code of conduct that involved staying away from alcohol. He broke that agreement. There had to be consequences. I can't remember where, but somewhere along the line I read that he entered rehab at the urging of his family, not the team. It was voluntary. While Pet should act like a coach, not a father, this is kind of a special circumstance. As has been pointed out, nobody before Pet has really held Johnny accountable. Benching Johnny might not have been the best for winning in the short term, but if it forces Johnny to accept his responsibilities regarding his problems and to his team, then in the long run, it was the right move.

im done. i hope he plays well so we can trade him.... one to many time for me to want anything to do with the cocaine cowboy ..

agree.

This thread got weird.

You are making an HUGE assumption it was for alcoholism. People go to rehab for all kinds of addictive issues, not just alcohol. Maybe he was addicted to porn

From what I have seen, and by all accounts told by the coaching staff up until "liegate", Johnny was doing everything asked of him. In other words, rehab seemed to have helped quite a bit.

I will never, ever agree with how the situation was handle by Pet. Watching the game live in the stadium on Sunday was fantastic. The sideline was electric, the players were engaged and excited - something I had not seen all year. Daddy screwed up by not playing him sooner - if he plays great these last 3 games and shows improvement in each one I think he is done as it is obvious he cannot put football ahead of being a pseudo parent. That whole situation rubbed me the wrong way and I will have a hard time getting over how that dunce handled it.

I've been on my soapbox since it happened about this. Daddy needs to worry about his crappy football team instead of what an adult is doing on his vacation week.

so if it doesn't happen you will be on here saying how wrong you were? Or will it be more of the same old excuses?

If what doesn't happen? I don't make excuses, and have zero problem admitting when I am wrong.

Your comment though did make me think of one of my favorite movies

If JM earns himself more rope as we finish the season, he could do worse than having Pettine as his coach next year. It seems that the very thing that earned MPthe ire of many fans (coaching like he's in HS, acting like JM's guidance counselor, etc) may have been what finally snapped JM into focus.

We fans want wins... and if we think the coach is unfairly keeping 'our winner' off the field, there will be anger and frustration. BUT: we don't know the personalities involved. And from what I understand, coaching is much more than doing a 'plug & play' Madden- or Fantasy-style. There are real human beings inside those uniforms, and only the coaches know how best to handle them. Only the coaches see them every day. Only the coaches know whether they are ready to help the team.

From what I understand, JM might have received the very first discipline of his life that actually worked. If that's the case, maybe Pettine is exactly THE right coach to bring him along. After all, who better than a "seasoned HS coach" to raise and train an arrested adolescent?

.02

I dunno, cfrs... I'm kinda seeing it the same way as superbowl- and I was never a Manziel fanboy. Didn't watch him in college, didn't read/hear about him until his name started popping up in the Browns' draft threads. I've been able (more or less) to just view him as a young QB, without the strong opinions he seems to elicit from many.

The off-field stuff he's done as a pro have been worrisome, but not enough for me to start up a personal hate campaign. The maturity issue is a continuing legitimate concern, but I also remind myself that he'd just now be finishing his senior year at A&M. Then I remember who I was at 22-23.

Going only by what I see on the field, I feel there is more to feel optimistic about than causes for concern. It seems that the coaching he's been given is taking hold, and actually making him better than if he was left to his own (de)vices. It signals a willingness to change his game for the better... a game that is still being assembled.

I'll put it this way: if he continues to show growth throughout the rest of the season, it would be enough for me to feel confident in his potential for next year- while still acknowledging the small sample size. Think of it this way: if JM had been the named starter of Game One, 2015 and showed the same trajectory he's shown in the games he HAS played...

...would you bench him, or let him play out the season?

That's where I'll be regarding Manziel after CLE plays PIT. And not a moment before. To me, that's fair and reasonable.


.02

No, I'm really not. It is an assumption to be sure, but it really is the assumption that makes the most sense. Yes, it could be other drugs beside alcohol, but it really is all the same thing. I know from experience that living sober requires not drinking, smoking, snorting or dropping anything that will alter my consciousness. That's how sobriety works, and that's what rehab teaches.

I can't disagree with that at all, nor do I have any experience with rehab. We'll never know what he was in there for, though I will agree (and saying HUGE assumption was a little out of line, sorry) that alcohol or drugs was the most likely reason.

That said, he does seem to be handling himself much better than last year, but I do also understand the concerns of those that he could fall off of a cliff at anytime. It is a tricky situation for sure.

My take is if he plays well the last 3 games go all in with JFF and draft accordingly.

2 point plan.

1. Bring everybody back. Even, McCown and Manziel, Austin DAvis, and Connor Shaw.
Even Farmer, Pettine and Scheiner.

( Wish they hadn't given up on Leon McFadden at this point.)

2. Draft Derrick Henry , runningback out of Alabama.

Force Farmer to do it, Haslem can force whatever he wants, Haslem is the owner.

If there was a 3rd point, it would be to leave the defense alone, only draft offensive playmakers who have a chance to score touchdowns sometime in their career.

Haden, Thomas, Bitonio, Schwartz, Mingo, Mack, Gilbert, Sheldon, Erving, Phil Taylor, Skrine, Kruger, Dansby, Bryant, other Bryant, Orchard, and Cooper.

Career touchdowns from that group? It's no wonder they only reach the 6 win mark one time in how many 6 or 7 years now.

You got to score touchdowns.


point 1. Bring everybody back. Everybody!

2. Draft that Rb from Alabama, Derick Henry, ( And I think he plays high and isn't eager to pass block, I don't care, sometimes it's better not to win the draft, win the future. )

I'd be most disappointed, if they took Joey Bosa, because, well they already have pass rushers who only get there once in a while.

This is an apples and oranges comparison. During a season there is not an opportunity to upgrade the position.

The problem is it's not clear if any of the guys coming out are upgrades.

I think it is clear.

It wasn't very long ago, before the last draft, that people were arguing that there really weren't any good QB candidates. Mariota came from a spread offense and Winston had character issues. I wasn't on this board yet, 2 years ago on the other board I was on, the same was said about Bortles, Carr, Manziel, and Bridgewater. It's impossible to accurately project how good college QB's will perform in the NFL, the two are so different. The top 3 in this class, Goff, Lynch (if they declare) and Cook all have question marks. It's always a gamble.

If Johnny performs well over the last 3 games, in my mind he's the starter moving forward. We can draft for other needs at the top of the draft, then take a shot on Cardale in the 3rd. He's a project, but if we're moving forward with Johnny, having a project on the back burner isn't a bad plan. And if Cardale develops into something, so much the better.

Clearly what named player coming out is better?

Or are you saying that it's clear no one is better?

It's an intellectual exercise regarding his progress as a player.

Play along, and see if your opinion might change.

QFT. Thanks for the perspective.

Not all intellectual exercises are worthwhile.

I wanted Manziel to start from the beginning of the season so we didn't have to come up with ways to justify keeping him.

so be it.

J/C

"May you live in interesting times"

Johnny playing from here gives us a much bigger body of work to evaluate. Yeah he's picked up games and series' here and there but 4 successive games to close out is gonna be huge. Not just for him, but for Farmer, and also for Pet and staff. Strap in folks, the next month, as usual is gonna give us Browns fans more interesting times. (That's a curse btw, fits right?)

Who are the 2 best QB's in the draft in your opinion?

Link?

A LOT of discussion about the college QB prospects. Are there 1 or 2 guys in the industry that you really listen to when it comes to evaluating these kids coming out?

And yes, I do agree that no one really knows until these kids actually start playing in the NFL.

I'm still bringing in another QB IF Manziel stays. The off the field stuff is a HUGE concern for me at this point.

deleted

Did you accidentally post nude pics again?