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What I get from "hybrid 3-4" is "complicated"

Why not just run a good old 4-3, line em up and beat the guy across from you?

Send the DEs after the QB.

Put the DBs in coverage.

Just. Be. Better.

No. Horton hates a hybrid.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/1/26/3918510/ray-horton-cleveland-browns-34-defense

"It won't be a hybrid, not unless we're playing golf," Horton, who was hired Jan. 18, quipped. "It'll be a 3-4. It'll be the same defense we ran here [in Arizona]."

Actually, Danny Shelton came from a 4-3 system in Washington, he is adapting to the 3-4 NT and Nate Orchard was a 4-3 DE at Utah when he got all those sacks, so I don't think this front seven would have to change hardly at all..

We would need 4-3 OLBs more than anything and they are not as sought after as 3-4 OLBs, so they can readily be found.

Right now, we have the following:

DT; Randy Starks (his natural position), Plus- Danny Shelton and John Hughes, both played DT in college and are being asked to play different positions in the current scheme..So, you would need one more DT...easily found on free agency, someone like Nick Fairly or even bring Ahtyba Rubin back.

DE; Nate Orchard, Xavier Cooper, Desmond Bryant, Armonty Bryant, POSSIBLY Barko Mingo (where he played in college)..

OLB; Craig Robertson and Christian Kirksey..and that is ALL..definite need

MLB; VERY short term Karlos Dansby, this would have to be one of the top priorities along with an OLB.

The D-Line, imho, would be the least of the transition pieces.

Sounds like we have the personnel to play a 4-3 rather than a 3-4. Didn't our former coaches see this? Maybe that's why our D stunk so bad.

It's not complicated. In fact, about half of the 3-4 defenses out there right now are hybrids including ours this year. It's just showing some 4-3 looks with 3-4 personnel. You can catch the offense off-guard when players line up in spots they weren't expecting.

Running a good old 4-3 right now gives us 2 choices.

1) Play a bunch of guys that don't fit a 4-3 in 4-3 spots till their contracts run out.

2) Blow the defense up. Cut a bunch of guys and waste a lot of salary cap space on dead money. Play a bunch of cheap free agents that nobody wants till the cap money clears the books and then ignore offense in the draft and draft defense to make up for all the no-names we signed.

To me, it would seem much easier and less painful to just sign a coach that knows how to get the most out of the 3-4 defense.

Just to give you an example...

In just Kruger, Dansby, and Mingo we have about $20 mil committed for just 2016. Those 3 guys don't fit a 4-3 defense. So you either cut them and try to find replacements on the scrap pile or you play them out of position till their contracts run out. In either choice, how well do you think that 4-3 defense is going to do for the next couple of years?

I gave you those 3 players as an example, but really we are talking about at least a dozen players. There are very few players on our front 7 including our depth that can play in a 4-3.

But we did run a hybrid.

I think a lot of teams run it and people get too bogged down w/the 4-3 and 3-4 labels. Just like NE. People say they are a 3-4, but look at what they ran in the playoff game.

I thought we were much more effective last year when we began to play a great deal more 4-3.

I believe we will also be adding a big powerful RG for our offensive line. Hue wants a power run game. I do expect some changes on the line. Andre smith as a free agent could be interesting.

Shelton was only looked at as a Nosetackle in the draft because he is too slow to be a 4-3 DT.

Randy Starks was on the scrap heap for us to sign because he is pretty poor against the run as a 4-3 DT. Turns out he is pretty poor against the run as a 3-4 DE as well.

Nate Orchard could make the switch I think, but I'd like to see him put on about 20 lbs. I would prefer if he was a couple of inches taller too, but there are 4-3 DE's doing well out there that are the same height of 6' 3"

We do not have any LB's that fit the 4-3. Any. Including Dansby.

Mingo isn't strong enough to play OLB right now. He's definitely too weak to put his hand on the ground.

Des Bryant could possibly transition and Armonty Bryant could possibly transition.

thought so. really impressed me with how he got sheard playing for the first time in 3/4.

Desmond Bryant is tailor-made to be a defensive tackle in a 4-3.

He also put him back on his natural side right?

I agree, but he played DE in college in a 4-3 scheme, so he would be learning another position...

Yes a DT not a DE.

Guys play a lot of positions in college that don't translate well in the NFL.

For instance lots of guys do fine playing the LT spot in college, but wind up being guards in the NFL.

Out of curiosity, since Bill Belichick are there any former Browns head coaches that actually were a NFL head coach again?

Man, we sure do hire elite talent

Edit...Romeo was interim coach in 2011 and head coach for the Chiefs in 2012

and successfully led them to the #1 overall 2013 Draft Pick.

Shurmur was an interim head coach. Does that count?

J/C...

Here's some names besides Horton..From teams No longer in the Playoffs.

Greenbay's ..
Winston Moss - Associate Head Coach/Linebackers.. wiki
Darren Perry - Secondary - Safeties.. wiki
Mike Trgovac - Defensive Line.. wiki

Kansas City..
Bob Sutton-Defensive Coordinator... wiki
Gary Gibbs-Linebackers... wiki
Al Harris-Assistant Secondary... wiki

Pittsburgh..
Carnell Lake-Defensive Backs Coach... wiki
John Mitchell-Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Line... wiki
Jerry Olsavsky-Inside Linebackers Coach... wiki
Joey Porter-Outside Linebackers Coach... wiki

Seattle...
Dwaine Board-Defensive Line.. wiki


I understand most would like to see a proven DC come here,So Hue would have more time with the "O" duties.

I was just curious on some of the other "D" coaching positions that may have a guy who could rise up.

Searching through the names of guys, many I didn't list. I was surprised how many DL coaches stay DL coaches and most guys who become DC's were DB coaches.

I don't want to land another O'Neil, but thought there might be a gem in the rough somewhere.

Not having a DC yet made me curious if it was due to guys whose teams are still playing.

Board and Mitchell are both former Browns position coaches.

I'm hearing that Jim Schwartz is a real possibility.

I am seeing that the Eagles and Jaguars (whom he is definitely interviewing with) are also interested.

I would personally prefer Schwartz to all others, as he is a proven DC and has the connections to put a solid staff together on defense along with Hue.

Mike Trgovac - Youngstown native. Played for Bo Schembechler. Was the Panthers DC from 2003 to 2008. Was DC when they played in the NFC championship. Was offered a two year deal to stay by Carolina, but left with a bunch of other assistant coaches that year. The same year Peppers left the Panthers and followed him to GB.

He would be an interesting choice for DC and it would be nice to get a guy that can develop guys on the front 7 no matter what scheme we run.

Correct if I am wrong but if I remember correctly from Cleveland 95 wasn't Scwartz a slappy on Belichick's staff?

Yep, his most common job was picking people up at the airport.

Yup

Early coaching career

Schwartz got his start in the NFL doing research for Bill Belichick on the Cleveland Browns staff in the mid-1990s. Schwartz served as the Tennessee Titans' defensive coordinator from 2002-2008.[3] During his time with Tennessee, Schwartz was considered for several different NFL head coaching openings. He was a candidate for the San Francisco 49ers' head coaching position in 2005, but the job went to Mike Nolan.[4] In January 2008, he interviewed for head coaching positions with the Washington Redskins,[5] Miami Dolphins[6] and Atlanta Falcons.[7] Adam Schefter reported on January 15, 2009 that the Detroit Lions had decided to hire Schwartz as head coach.[8]

I think this would be a tremendous hire, Hue could concentrate on the offense and he could let Schwartz do his thing on Defense. He primarily ran a 4-3 with Detroit I believe, wouldn't mind seeing that maybe a hybrid 3-4 depending on who the Browns are playing and what the strength of that team is.

Schwartz likes the wide 9 which might be a little easier transition for our OLB's since speed is more important than size in that scheme. He replaced Pettine in Buffalo, so would be familiar with his scheme.

I haven't seen anything about an interview yet and we better hurry if we want him because he's at the top of the Eagle's list as well.

Maybe Schwartz never texted Hue, He must not be one of the 142

Ian Rapoport just Tweeted that we will, indeed, interview Ray Horton, and that Tennessee has given permission for us to do so.


Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
The #Browns will interview #Titans defensive coordinator Ray Horton this week, source said. They're getting permission.

thanks for ruining my day...

On Cleveland Browns Daily today, Matt Wilhelm basically let the cat out of the bag that Schwartz had been there recently though the team has not officially announced his interview.

*IF* we're going to stick with the 3-4, which at this stage I'm kinda "over" it - it's been nothing that has really worked here with whoever coordinator... but again, *if* we are sticking with that scheme, I'd want Ray. I felt Ray was actually taking the defense and improving it. Our run defense was likely best under him. I was under the impression Titans were going to extend him so getting permission to even interview is a tad shocking IMO.

I can put a 3-4 defense on the field that looks exactly like a 4-3 and visa versa.

In fact in hybrid schemes this is what you want to do. You want QB's not to know where the rush is coming from our where the coverage will be.

I prefer the odd fronts as a base because the extra lb can rush or drop into coverage. You can do it with a 4-3 as well, but dropping a 300 lb guy into coverage too many times will get you killed.

A 3-4 just gives you a little more flexibility.

Browns have talked to Jim Schwartz about becoming defensive coordinator
5:35 PM ET
Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer
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The Cleveland Browns have contacted Jim Schwartz about becoming the team's defensive coordinator, a league source told ESPN'S Paul Kuharsky.

However, the Eagles and Jaguars also have contacted Schwartz, and he is considering his options. He would have preferred to work for the Titans, but Dick LeBeau is staying in Tennessee.

The Browns have been in touch with former coordinator Ray Horton in addition to Schwartz. Horton is under contract with Tennessee and said he is discussing an extension with the Titans, but the Titans could let him out of his deal. It appears Schwartz or Horton are in line to be defensive coordinator under new coach Hue Jackson.

The NFL Network reported that Horton would interview with the Browns this week.

Schwartz was coach of the Lions from 2009-2013, and spent 2014 in Buffalo. He replaced Mike Pettine, whom the Browns hired to be their coach. He was a college and pro scout from 1993 to 1995 with the Browns under Bill Belichick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...ive-coordinator

I heard that as well Steve. Zegura's reaction implied he was thinking 'Matt, you dumbass, that's not supposed to be made public'.

Hiring Schwartz would be my preference.

J/C..

When Ray Horton's name is mentioned what comes to mind..

1) Tenn has the number 1 pick

2) The Browns put up 28 points against his "D"

Time to move on...

We also put up 23 on the Broncos.

(Also, one of the scores against the Titans was a punt return.)

Still don't like him

He is not my first choice either.