DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon files application for reinstatement from league suspension

I can live w/that. I am only defending JM because he is being bullied by the fans while Gordon gets a pass.

You met me in person. I think you know how I feel about bullying. I'm gonna defend the guy getting bullied, Pit. Sorry......that is just how I am wired.

Bullied in real life? Or bullied on this message board (which he doesn't read)?

Can a person be bullied if that don't know they are being bullied?

I hope you noticed that I did agree with you to some extent and I really didn't try to degrade or dismiss you.

I was simply trying to point out that a team expects a lot out of their QB. That's he the face of the franchise and the leader of the team. I do believe that has a lot to do with the double standard to a great degree. And I do admit that there is a double standard IMO.

If a tree fell on your head, would you feel it?

Before anyone goes off............that was a joke.

Don't agree w/me on this one, Pit. I got this. I ain't backing down when I feel I am right. I have the truth on my side, so I can't freaking lose............well, unless I get suspended again.

Well, that depends. If my wife was there to tell me it hurt, it would.

If she wasn't there, I would have no way of knowing until I asked her.

LOL...........just so you know: I made that post in response to cfrs saying this:



It reminded me of the philosophical [sic] question of yesteryear when some genius asked if a falling tree makes a sound if no one was there to hear it, but I added my own, unique special twist to it..........And again, cfrs ...I was joking. I thought you might actually appreciate it. Heck, I appreciated your grammar joke about resigning and re-signing.

I actually thought so. My reply was a take off on an answer to the joke you were referring to.

The old, "If a tree fell in the woods and no one was there to hear it, would it still make a sound?"

The answer was, "I have no idea, I'll have to ask my wife."

There's no pass given to JG with me. I'm pimping using our latter of our first rounders on the biggest, best WR that's on the board... or deal a little magic to move up to acquire one. Got to give Hue a big, deep, field stretching target that isn't a moron who hangs with the wrong crowd and consistently has shown he does many of the wrong things which takes him away from his teammates.

Not sticking up for Gordon, but people need to realize that the kid has not failed a drug test in almost two years. His suspension was because he had a drink on a plane in which a coach was present.

But for real though, is anyone actually bullying Manziel?

Perhaps it was poor wording on my part, but a QB being a QB, he must show balls-out commitment and unquestioned leadership, a prima Donna WR - and there have plenty - can get away with questionable leadership sometimes. A QB can't.

And was against the rules of his reinstatement, or however it should be phrased. I am sure it is spelled out what one can and cannot do. Typically an adult can have a beer on a plane but past transgressions put him under different guidelines and he decided that drink was more important than following the conditions he forced on himself. If he was told that eating chocolate would violate the terms of his reinstatement then he needs to not eat chocolate or face the consequences. The fact it was just a drink gets no pass from me.

Just like JFF boozing it up on a day off. If he was told not to do it, then don't do it.

No, nobody is bullying him. Vers issue seems to be that people are being very critical of him and they are not being equally critical (or more critical) of Josh Gordon who has a longer and more serious list of issues... and I actually agree with him. All I've said is that from a purely business perspective, I can understand why you might give Gordon another chance but not give Manziel one..

I meant to respond to this post earlier but lost it's place.

As usual you make a very good argument that stands up to debate. Good post.

Of course the position these guys play creates a double standard.

But Manziel has also greatly enhanced the double standard beyond position vs. position.

Look, the kid wanted all the hype and fame coming out of college. He wanted the all the press, all the attention. He wanted the world to see Manziel get wasted and party. He got exactly what he wanted.

And now people want us to feel sorry for the guy because the media and the world is up his butt about every bottle he buys or drinks?

Manziel is the ONLY person who can undo all that. So far he's shown no real effort or desire to do so.

I think a big part of Johnnys problem is the fans fault. No doubt it is his actions that have him in the doghouse, but the guy is a social media freak. I bet you he reads boards. Maybe even this one.

The guy has been ragged on the day he came here. His personality type takes that to heart and I think it comes out in a defiant manner. He does have a weak mind since that stuff bothers him and doesn't drive him to shut people up with his effort and play.

It's now to the point he wants out of Cleveland, and seemingly will do whatever he can to make that happen.

As for Gordon. I doubt he reads much, he is just a egg head receiver in a long line of egg head receivers to play in the NFL. People almost expect that sort of behavior out of a receiver. They don't out of a QB.

JMO

And just when did Gordon get a pass?

Can you prove that? You know, w/quotes?

That's one of those statements that are frequently made on this board and no one challenges it.

I could have sworn that Manziel said he didn't want all the attention? That he was one of the guys? That he dropped the name--Johnny Football? I can't recall any quotes from him saying he wanted attention, hype, and that he thought he deserved to be famous. Can't remember a one.......

Once again, that has no basis on proof. Some stupid reporter said that and then a bunch of reporters, bloggers, fans, etc started repeating that RUMOR, and all of a sudden it became the truth.

I did say JMO. That is how it looks to me. I agree, there is no proof. I hope I am wrong. I am not ready to close the book on Johnny. I just think it is to the point it won't work. But, we'll see. Maybe Hue talks to the guy after watching flim and lets him know he is wanted.

Well, of course no one challenges it, because when the Browns drafted Johnny Football, he was living a Rock Star lifestyle... it's an undisputed FACT and the entire basis of anything 'Johnny Manziel'

Why is that so hard to understand?

Or are you seriously going to say that he was purely a victim of all that fame coming out of college? That trying to trademark Johnny Football is an example of a quiet, mature, professional??? Get real man!

So, you have no quotes?

Seriously? You want a quote of him SAYING he wants to be a partying dude instead of devoted to his craft and his team? You think people just come out and make those announcements? Matt Leinart said all the right things too about wanting to be devoted to his craft and putting his team first and every opportunity he got, he was flying back to LA to hang in the hot tub with his celebrity friends...

You are a teacher, what do you believe more when a kid gets in trouble, what the kid says or what you see with your own two eyes? Ever have a parent/teacher/student conference where little Bobby sits there in front of you and his parents and swears he's going to change, he's going to do his work, he wants to get his grades up? Do you just assume that because he said it, it must be true, or do you wait to see if he ACTUALLY changes?

If Manziel didn't want all of the attention, he would have taken the hint the first 12 or 13 times it happened that he was out in public partying and hanging with his celeb buddies and it ended up on youtube.. and he would have thought, "Huh, if I don't want all of this attention, maybe I need to find a different way to live my social life. Because everywhere I go, people with cameras keep filming me drinking and putting me on the internet."

Sorry Vers, Manziels actions speak a lot louder than anything he may have said since being drafted.

Ball game over.

I like you Vers, I really do. But it's nonsense like this which makes it a) hard to defend you and b) difficult to agree with you.

I clearly pointed out who Manziel was when we drafted him. If you are seriously asking for personal quotes from Manziel prior to him going in to re-hab, you're frankly being disingenuous and petty because you are trying to argue a point that can't be argued and the premise that Manziel came to us as an attention whore and party animal doesn't even run contrary to your position on this subject.

If the swan fits...

That's two posts this morning where you are misrepresenting my intent.

I was talking about him wanting all they hype, fame, press, and attention. I could have sworn I mentioned his comments about wanting to be one of the guys? Dropping the name Johnny Football? Not wanting the constant coverage from the press?

Please don't lower yourself to the standard practice on here of misrepresenting the intent of another's post just to win a damn argument.

Are you guys honestly not getting my point or is it deliberate? I was clearly debating whether or not Johnny wanted all the media attention, hype, etc.

I keep referring to him wanting to be one of the guys, dropping the Johnny Football nickname, dropping the money sign, etc.

We dont get it, we all still have our blinders on. You are the enlightened one.

Wow
Been two days, sweet, a bunch of new posts in Josh Gordon thread. O I forgot we can't get enough of Johnny.

Stuff like this is what you guys are even argue about. He is sooooo hyped and exploited for crap he does that he has even turned a fans message board into a TMZ skit.

It's a joke. Every thread, wr or coach or any other type thread turns to a Johnny thread. Come on guys. The team makes us look bad enough as fans. Let it go or keep it to the Johnny thread part 7.

It's like when one person gets louder than all the others to be heard in a group. But you guys are online so instead of uppercase letters you just post same Johnny crap In another thread nothing about Johnny.

Stuff like this has turned this message boards to garbage.

That said, I'm rooting for Josh, just can't trust him. We can't just assume his spot. Try to get whoever hue likes as a wr from Cincy. Try for jefferys, try anyway. Jefferys, Gordon, Cincy wr, benji, barny, and duke is pretty stout. Then if Gordon screws up its jefferys, Cincy wr, benji. Not horrible.

Finally someone is making sense.

Do you even know what your point is? No one is denying that he dropped the nickname, money sign, and made the claim he wanted to be one of the guys...

Look, there's always going to be hype surrounding a top college QB heading to the pros. But Manziel took his fame above and beyond that norm and helped create the JFF persona. That was his choice.

Unfortunately the reality is that no matter how much he may mean he wants to change, there are still plenty of people (or vultures) who are going to be up his butt to see if he really does, and just like you try to point out the hypocrisy of posters, people are going to point out the hypocrisy of Johnny Manziel.

The only way people forget that lifestyle is for Manziel to make that lifestyle forgettable.

As far as how this compares to Gordon? Frankly I don't care. I don't believe in using one person's bad behavior to excuse someone else's. Not a single person has said the basis of a successful team is a WR. As for QB's, personally, I don't believe we can rely on a guy with the maturity of a 12yr old to turn this around.

Didn't he bring his old HS coach to Cleveland to live with him and be a mentor after his rehab stint?

I would tend to agree with you... I think he had (or is having) trouble going from being the biggest fish in a small pond to being a guy who has to prove himself every single day.

No Devil. I am completely ignorant......just as I always am when I don't agree w/you guys.

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Good first step, bro.