DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns fined Johnny Manziel for missed treatment

Yep, that's pretty much exactly what I said..

j/c:



I love how the author contradicts all of Brown's quotes w/his own unique [well, not really unique] spin and then makes things up to prove his case.

eo there is no proving anything to you. thus the head in the sand. you and browns32 could walk in on him doing a line and you two would look at each other and high five saying the doctor finally gave him something for his sinus problem.

When Hue was hired the rumor surfaced that Hue said in the interview that he wanted to move on from Manziel and the Browns allegedly said, "That won't be a problem."

From that point, I think the Browns have been posturing to get something, anything, in trade value for Manziel. If somebody out there does want him and firmly believes he will be cut, then they aren't likely to trade for him.. I think this is Sashi Brown trying to build a case that we might keep him to up his trade value from nothing to something..

This is, of course, just my humble opinion.

For anyone that's interested, Andre Knott and Zac Jackson (local cleveland media/reporter guys) do a great podcast called A to Z, here is the one on Johnny Manziel if you have an hour to kill.

Enjoy!

Podcast Link

People believe what they want to.

Eo, let's just kick it down a notch and get extremely broad and generic here.

He goes out and puts himself on camera and makes a mess of himself. Pic of him rolling a bill up in a bathroom and just so on and so on. Obviously he's been scolded, warned, many times have seen/lived the result of his antics and etc etc and yet... videos keep popping up.

It's clear there's no off/on switch. It's clear he likes the spotlight. It's clear, after consequences, rehab and endless media bashing he will not shift his priorities.

Why do you stick up for him? Hey I wanted to party up too when I was his age and I damn sure did just that, but I didn't get paid millions nor did I have an army (including an entire city) needing to rely on me.

All JMO of course

I don't know if that is always true. I was a big Manziel supporter. I wanted him to get more time last year.. I argued in favor of 2nd chances, I have stated repeatedly that we DO NOT KNOW if he was in rehab because he's an alcoholic so if he has a drink now on the off week, I don't know if it's that big of a deal.. I'm not even saying I want him gone now, just saying what I think WILL happen.

One thing I will say, if the Browns have any intention of keeping Manziel, which I'm still skeptical about, they have to change the narrative.

Every time a video surfaced, it was Pettine with his "we take these things very serious and we'll look into it" response. Or the notion that he was drinking on the bye week, back in his college town and got suspended.. no wait, he wasn't suspended for drinking he was suspended for lying about drinking... ok, whatever.

First, if we are keeping Manziel, he's the starter... bringing in another high round draft pick to compete for the job isn't going to work for anybody, not the QBs, not the offense, not the staff, not the fans.. nobody.

Second, issue a statement and clear up the drinking thing. Something along the lines of "Manziel was not in rehab because he's an alcoholic, his treatment and progress doesn't have to be alcohol free. Manziel is an adult and as long as he's meeting his obligations to the team, if he wants to drink on his own time, that's up to him."

Third, it has to be stressed to Manziel, we are done playing games with this. You want to be treated like an adult, start acting like one. Missing meetings, missing treatments, sneaking out of town is TOTALLY unacceptable. (For the record, I fully admit I don't know which of those rumors are true and which are not) If you want to have a drink, no problem, if you want to go back to College Station on the bye week, no problem, if you want to go to Vegas or a Biebs concert on your own time, no problem.... just remember that you represent the Cleveland Browns every where you go.

Not saying that would work, not saying that's what we should do.. but if there is one more chance in this for Manziel in Cleveland, it has to be more transparent... on one hand we have no real right to know but on the other hand, if the Browns want any peace with this, we, the fans, need to know what the rules are. If we see a photo or a video or hear a story of him drinking is it ok? Is it a big deal or not? If it is a big deal, then suspend him for drinking, if it's not a big deal, why does he feel the need to try to lie about it? There just has to be some consistency to this and last year, the Browns were all over the map on how they responded to these things... they need to squash that right away.

It's been two weeks since the Cleveland Browns named Hue Jackson their next head coach, but Jackson admitted Wednesday that he has yet to speak with quarterback Johnny Manziel.

"He just wasn't in the first batch of guys," Jackson told Cleveland.com at the Senior Bowl. "But he's definitely on our list."

Good news for Browns fans -- Jackson did reach out to Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas, who debated on opting out if he did not like the new coaching staff.


"I'm kind of picking guys," he said. "Some I know on this team that I've been involved with at other places. Some I don't know and want to get to know. There's no rhyme or reason why I haven't talked to (Manziel), but it's just the process I'm in right now. I'm just kind of picking the guys as I go."

Jackson said he's not "directing anything" at Manziel.

"I don't think that's the right thing to do," he said. "One of my philosophies for our organization is talent is important, but character and being a good person and doing the things that we want done as a Cleveland Brown is very important."

Jackson added that he hasn't viewed Manziel's newest videos. He intends to address Manziel's offseason once the two meet.

"One, I haven't watched it to be very honest with you," he told 92.3 The Fan. "Then, No. 2, it is the offseason, and I would hope that players would do a great job of representing themselves and our organization and our team in a positive light. That's what we want.

"And if guys don't, I mean, I think everybody understands and recognizes there's consequences for everything that you do."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000629296/article/hue-jackson-has-not-spoken-to-johnny-manziel

Manziel being gone is not a foregone conclusion. I think Hue recognizes Manziel's talent and if he believes it is salvageable he will stay on the roster.

Yet to meet someone who potentially will hold your Qb position, the most important position hands down on all sides of the spectrum of football??

To me that action alone, just that sole action - tells me Hue already wants absolutely nothing to do with that kid. Wise man,imo.

Johnny Manziel’s dad worries, “it could come unraveled”

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 30, 2013, 7:21 PM EST

When we in the football media have talked about Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel’s reputation for partying, we’ve mostly discussed it in terms of how his enjoyment of night life might affect his football career. But Manziel’s parents have much more significant concerns about their son.

In a revealing profile of the Manziel family for ESPN the Magazine, Wright Thompson quotes Paul Manziel, the father of the Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback, expressing concern about what might become of his son. Paul Manziel believes Johnny feels so much pressure from all the scrutiny that comes with being a star quarterback that he might snap.

“Yeah, it could come unraveled. And when it does, it’s gonna be bad. Real bad,” Paul Manziel said. “It’s one night away from the phone ringing, and he’s in jail. And you know what he’s gonna say? ‘It’s better than all the pressure I’ve been under. This is better than that.'”

Manziel’s dad also said that his son drinks to deal with stress, and has anger issues that cause concern for the family.

“I don’t know where the anger comes from,” Paul said. “I don’t think he knows. If it comes from his drinking, or if he’s mad at himself for not being a better person when he fails, when he fails God and his mom and me. If it makes him angry that he’s got demons in him. You can only speculate because you can’t go in there.”

Paul Manziel suggested that Texas A&M isn’t providing the kind of guidance that he’d like to see his son receive in college.

“He still needs to see he’s wrong — and how to control his temper. And if I give up on him, who’s gonna take over? The school sure the hell isn’t gonna do it,” he said.

Paul Manziel also strongly suggested that his son will leave Texas A&M to enter the 2014 NFL draft, saying the family is getting tired of NCAA investigations.

“It’s starting to get under our skin,” Paul says. “They’re so selfish.”

In the NFL, Johnny Manziel won’t have to worry about NCAA compliance rules. But he’ll also be expected to conduct himself like a grown man. And his father seems to wonder if Johnny has grown up enough to do that.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...come-unraveled/

Sometimes Manziel had too much fun, skipping class and sweet-talking his way out of trouble. His father made him a deal: he would buy Manziel a new car if he stayed away from alcohol during his junior and senior years in high school. One summer night, Manziel went to Wal-Mart to buy a phone charger, the security guard smelled alcohol and the police were called.

Manziel denied he had been drinking but was taken to jail. The next day, his father picked him up, sold the car and replaced it with a busted pickup truck that would repeatedly break down on the way to school. He refused to pay the fine for his son, and when the judge sentenced Manziel to 10 hours of community service, John Paul said: Make it 20.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/sports...-line.html?_r=0

Then there's his stint in rehab.

Tab, that is proof. I'm sorry if you simply refuse to admit it. I'm sorry you can't follow the bouncing ball and look at the history of JFF to see the obvious. That's not my cross to bear.

First time I read/knew about that article. Revealing... it is *Yoda voice*

The fact he's had alcohol issues dating back to high school has been widely reported. His own family admits he has alcohol issues since high school. The people who raised him understand it and openly admit it. Rehab was the next logical step. Some people just turn a blind eye to it and act like that's no proof. The answer is obvious.

That seems odd coming from Hue. The Bengals are the dirtiest team in the league. They have quite a few guys that have serious character issues.

And weren't the Raiders accused of dirty play when he coached them? Didn't he only keep Rolando McClain out for a few plays after McClain fired a gun right past another man's head?

It seems to me when in Rome you act as Romans! Aren't all the teams in the AFCN, except Cleveland, have a reputation being dirty and guys having character issues?

During the 70's and 80's I assume you sided more with the Cowboys way instead of the Raiders. I'll admit I liked watching the Raiders hated playing against teams like them.

You assume wrong. I hate the Cowboys.

And I think you missed my point..........I SAID that I thought it was odd that Hue was bringing up the character angle considering his past.

Hmm, I thought you posted in another thread you weren't a big fan how Cincy plays football. I guess I was mistaken.

What?

Pretty sure you misunderstood.

Aren't most of Cincy's players who are considered dirty on defense? Hue was an offensive coach...

Why are you dragging me into this discussion?

This argument is borderline ridiculous. What the article proves is that Manziel has had an issue with drinking since at least the 10th grade. When your own father suggests he drinks to relieve stress, that's a problem. His entire job hinges on his ability to handle stress, stress in the pocket, stress of the criticism after a loss, stress of coming back from injury, etc..

If his father is willing to say that his way of coping with stress is drinking, then how can you argue that is NOT a big problem?

I have friends who jokingly say, "I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics go to meetings"... you can have very serious alcohol related issues without being a diagnosed alcoholic... so whether he is or isn't, doesn't matter as much to me as the red flags that keep popping up and have for a long time.

Good Lord.. since you are white, you have a chance to win an Oscar for that bit of drama next year..

First, never said anything must be so or that you were a jerk...

Second, there are a lot of people in prison because a volume of circumstantial evidence is just as good as a smoking gun or DNA evidence.. always has been like that, always will be.

Believing in our countries values and character? Innocent until proven guilty? Nobody is suggesting we put him in jail, just wondering if we should trust the future of our football team to him... Ask any employer, they don't need a smoking gun to fire you, if they have enough circumstantial evidence that you aren't taking your job seriously, you are gone... this is an employment situation, not a legal situation.

I was brought up on these words: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.


NOOOO.. don't go. We don't want the truth because deep down in places we don't talk about at parties, we want you on that wall, we need you on that wall. You use words like honor, code, loyalty. You use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. We use them as a punchline. You have neither the time nor the inclination to explain yourself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very knowledge that you provide, and then questions the manner in which you provide it. You would rather I just said thank you, and went on my way....

I'm sure that JFF is the only NFL player or Brown's player that will ever be out at a club drinking in the off season... smh

Johnny's problem isn't that he is out having a good time, it's that he's Johnny. I don't see how anybody can fix that, the kid ALWAYS has a camera pointed at him regardless of what he is doing. Can you imagine being his age living under that microscope?

I personally don't think he has done anything to deserve all this hate from the fans. If he wants to drink when he is off who am I to care? His personal life is personal as far as I'm concerned.

j/c sorta.

I have a job. My job requires a certain level of professionalism, as well as the trust and respect of my customers.

I like to drink.

I don't go out and get drunk in public. Period. Not in the area I work, not most places to be honest. Restaurants, bars, the "party" we were just at Sat. night. I'll have a beer or 3, maybe even 5 if we're somewhere (that party - where I've done work for about 1/2 the people in attendance) for a long enough time.

At home, or at a good friends house, I might imbibe too much at times. No one sees me.

I'm small potatoes, I know. I'm nothing, just ask swish. But my job depends on not just the quality of work I do, but also on my reputation: my work reputation, and my personal/public life reputation.

Manziel could learn a lot.

I don't see Joe Thomas, or Joe Haden, or Schwartz, Craig Robinson........heck, anyone else on the team - going out and partying and videoing. Do the others drink and party? More than likely. Do they flaunt it? Doesn't appear so.

We used a valuable draft pick on him (yea, I know we probably would have blown it on somebody else any way) but regardless..

We used a first round pick on him and signed an $8.3 million contract with $4.3 million guaranteed.. or something like that.

Then he proceeded to take his first year off. He didn't study, he didn't work hard, he didn't prepare... all of this is fairly well documented.

If his biggest problem was that he went out once in a while for a drink... or that he was partying in College Station on the bye week, nobody would give a crap. But when you couple that with his 2014/15 salary and bonus that he basically stole from the Browns.. yea, it gets a little harder to take.

then after rehab and repeated internet postings and warnings by the Browns, he keeps on doing it. It's like he knows he's going to get photographed or videoed, he knows it's going on the internet, he knows the Browns and the fans are going to go nuts.. and he just continues to put himself in a position for it to happen.

I'm not totally down on the kid, but I'd be extremely nervous going into next season with him as the primary option.

As far as imagining being his age and living under that microscope... that microscope is his own creation... every year many high profile athletes are drafted out of major college programs to become integral to NFL teams.. I'm sure many of them were party guys on campus who tore it up and had a great time and were well recognized... they are very famous, they are all in their early 20s, they all become instantly rich... yet, most of them don't have this problem

So don't compare Manziel to me.. or to yourself.. or to a kid who joins the monastery... or the military.. or becomes a plumber... the only reasonable comparison is to his peers.. the other people who leave college, sign large contracts, become famous and enter the NFL... and within that group, can you say he is just acting like everybody else? Do people not want to snap a photo of Russell Wilson if they see him our? Or Teddy Bridgewater? Of course they do.. but those guys and many others keep the other stuff off the radar.. they aren't a big distraction to their team

Yes Tab, I believe that his own father realizing the problem JFF has had since back in high school holds a lot of merit. I believe that a young kid chose to lose a new car in order to continue to drink holds a lot of merit.

I believe you also know that HIPPA laws would strictly prohibit anyone from "being able to prove it".

You can ignore his father. You know, the man who raised him and his concern. You can ignore that this has been a continuing and increasing problem for years now. You have every right to do so.

But to pretend that doesn't build a strong case and provide a lot of credibility that JFF has a huge alcohol problem is pretty much you burying your head in the sand.

People should read the entire espn article. His dad, when they were out golfing, even admitted to being scared of his son.

Yes he did and it's a good read. I'm just not sure how anyone can look at all of the evidence and come away not feeling pretty confident that JFF has a major alcohol problem.

And I'm not a "hater" of JFF. I wish for his sake, the teams sake and us as fans sake, that he can overcome his issues and be a good QB for the Browns. But I'm also fully aware we have a new regime in town and I have my doubts they feel confident to move forward with JFF as the future of the franchise.

And as I read the article, it says if he could make it through his junior and senior year without drinking he could keep the car.. which means the deal was before his junior year.. which means the drinking problem was likely identified when he was a sophomore in HS.. that's 15 years old for those who don't remember the math...


I don't know his father.. but I have a 19 year old son.. and if he was famous, I can't imagine how bad it would have to be for me to lay him out to the media the way his dad did.. Your nature as a father is to protect your kids, protect their reputation, help them keep issues within the family, and get them help... To lay it all out there like that only leads me to believe that there is still probably stuff (maybe even the worst stuff) that he didn't reveal.. JMHO..


I agree, we can banter the notion of "proof" back and forth and throw around the word "alcoholic" all we want... The guy has had plenty of good reasons to keep the partying to a minimum multiple times in his life (a new car in HS, a starting gig in the NFL) and seems to have been perfectly willing to risk those things just so he could go hang out and get his drink on..

People always say, well what is the average 24 year old like... the average 24 year old isn't making $8 million with about a 15 year window to become a superstar.. the rest of us live in reality... I drank a lot, nobody cared... my livelihood didn't depend on it... I didn't have a team of highly successful millionaire men counting on me every day to show up prepared... I would like to think, at the age of 24, if somebody had offered me millions of dollars if only I could keep my partying to a minimum, I would have been able to do it.. like most of the other draft picks.

Keep kicking a man when he is down. Gutty.

two peas in the same pod...

I defend you when people pick on you, but why the hell are you picking on 32? He hasn't said squat about JM recently. Leave him alone.

Eo, I know you don't need my help...but I think we know what you are saying. And I think most would agree with it. I think Pet really mis-handled JM after the first year. I think if Pet tells him to stay out of trouble and have fun, instead of laying down all these ground rules, then this would not be an issue. He knew JM would not listen to not partying and going to clubs, therefore that's what was listed as not to do. And the media ate it up. I think JM's first year was messed up because of drinking, but I think his 2nd yr. was mostly because of attitude, which, IMO, was caused by Pet. laying down the law to behave like he knew he wouldn't.
The more Pet demanded he act like a choir boy, the more Johnny felt like he had to act out in protest. Right or wrong, I think Pet caused this whole mess. Like I said if he just told him to stay out of trouble and have fun, this stuff would have never happened.

Anyway, that's not what I wanted to say

I think People see him as an out of control kid who's actions are going to get him hurt or in trouble, doesn't really matter if it's booze or not. Don't really need proof to see whats going on in his world.

One thing I find interesting....After the Seahawks game, Sherman said he made a point to find JM and tell him
Not To Let Anyone Change Who He Is. At the time I thought that was an odd thing to say. After all Everyone can see he's a young man on a dangerous path, unless there was a darker meaning, like we know your bent on destroying yourself, so don't let anyone stop you.

past transgressions lmao... i think he will live...