Now that's Murica! That is the Christian thing to do, to actually help the people, not to punish one group to help the other group that socialism created!
You see, the only place I even suggested punishing corporations is when they move their headquarters to another country to avoid paying taxes. Those are the monies you suggest helping the poor with.
DC described it quite well. I'm not stumping for punishing anyone or any business who stays in America and promotes American jobs. The American people are the ones who buy their products that made them wealthy in the first place.
It seems that over the past 30 years, the middle income earners have remained pretty much stagnant in wages. Benefits for the average job have gone down. This does not add up to the message you described above.
It would be nice if everyone you described did as you suggest they do. However, the math indicates they don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes it was that bad...I thought they was pulling some kind of stunt.
That's just scary
In this corner, we got a bunch of stumbling bumbling nobodys that have no business in this race and in the other corner we have a one person who doesn't know how to give a straight answer and the other is a socialist.
How in heavens name did it get this far out of whack.
Neither party has enough brains to work through this without stepping in a pile of dung.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Good citizens should not be punished and criminals should be.
Wouldn't take much to find the balance.
Evidently it would... because we've had that system for decades and the divide in this country keeps getting worse.
Quote:
No person HAS to be responsible, they should want to be. Reward those who are and punish those who aren't. Make it more profitable to be responsible and they will beat down your door to show you their greatness.
That's a great platitude, I bet it would sound awesome from the stage with your sleeves rolled up and a cheering crowd... just don't hang around for somebody to ask, "How do you plan to do that?"
I read all you had to say and found it completely foolish.
The reason wages have declined and the ranks of the needy has increased is because businesses are leaving, not coming here.
When you have more workers than jobs available, wages decline. Everyone needs a job at any price. When there are more jobs than workers, competition for workers increases, driving up wages.
China just did it! They learned it from us.
In the beginning they paid 25 cents per hour. As more work came in to their profit friendly business atmosphere, workers began to be in short supply. The company across the street started offering 25 cents per hour, an apartment, and 3 meals per day.
Next, another business offered the same but with even better food. The workers began moving from one business to another.
Today, the workers make dollars per hour, better housing and good food.
You never stopped to think that when this began, our workers had to compete with workers making twenty five cents an hour has anything to do with this?
That's what happened 40. This "global economy" allows companies to pay super low wages in other nations whose workers starve, even when they're working. I can't believe you bring China into the conversation without actually seeing the truth of the matter.
We have businesses who ship out jobs to pay starvation wages yet you truly see that as a positive example and not the real problem here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Good citizens should not be punished and criminals should be.
Wouldn't take much to find the balance.
Evidently it would... because we've had that system for decades and the divide in this country keeps getting worse.
Quote:
No person HAS to be responsible, they should want to be. Reward those who are and punish those who aren't. Make it more profitable to be responsible and they will beat down your door to show you their greatness.
That's a great platitude, I bet it would sound awesome from the stage with your sleeves rolled up and a cheering crowd... just don't hang around for somebody to ask, "How do you plan to do that?"
Good gravy, think for yourself about what laws would bring us to the goal we have set! Contrary to what you believe, I do not know everything!
If you don't like my ideas, just keep on driving businesses out of our Country and then I can tell you, see, told you so.
Your model will work if, and only if, the corporations own up to their own social responsibility.. and they aren't.
And they won't. To put this in real terms, I just filed my taxes last night.... TurboTax gives me a nice overview of what i earned, and what I paid in taxes percentage wise. In 2006 I paid an effective tax rate of 16%. Not bad compared to Europe, and also explains why certain socialism programs would be crippling expensive in the US (since effective tax rate in europe is 30-48%). Fast forward 10 years, I make significantly more money. My effective tax rate is now 7%. Does this make sense? Is this fair? Sure, I could get back to that 16% rate or more. Voluntarily undo my child credit, eliminate my home office deductions and property tax deductions. Don't list my charitable contributions, etc. But should I? Is it my social responsibility to do so? Or am I just doing what is available to me? Is that money better put to use by me and for my family or better put to use by the government? A corporation is going to ask the same questions and come to the same conclusion.
Expecting people and corporations to be socially responsible reminds me of a parable that was wonderfully shown in Fargo:
You never stopped to think that when this began, our workers had to compete with workers making twenty five cents an hour has anything to do with this?
That's what happened 40. This "global economy" allows companies to pay super low wages in other nations whose workers starve, even when they're working. I can't believe you bring China into the conversation without actually seeing the truth of the matter.
We have businesses who ship out jobs to pay starvation wages yet you truly see that as a positive example and not the real problem here.
My eyes are wide open because I have lived the exodus of jobs to China. This is the New World Order and there is no way to stop it. When all Nations are equal in wages and taxes, then it will be over. Get used to it. Find a way for our Nation to survive it. But can't you see how wages are rising in China? Open your eyes to how Capitalism works, the world is going Capitalist. Next it will be India.
Good citizens should not be punished and criminals should be.
Wouldn't take much to find the balance.
Evidently it would... because we've had that system for decades and the divide in this country keeps getting worse.
Quote:
No person HAS to be responsible, they should want to be. Reward those who are and punish those who aren't. Make it more profitable to be responsible and they will beat down your door to show you their greatness.
That's a great platitude, I bet it would sound awesome from the stage with your sleeves rolled up and a cheering crowd... just don't hang around for somebody to ask, "How do you plan to do that?"
Good gravy, think for yourself about what laws would bring us to the goal we have set! Contrary to what you believe, I do not know everything!
If you don't like my ideas, just keep on driving businesses out of our Country and then I can tell you, see, told you so.
I don't want to drive business out of the United States... but I perceive your plan to be, "Cut corporate taxes and let the market self-regulate"... that hasn't been working.... because as Pit pointed out, this is an ever-expanding global economy...
Companies are finding the pressure points... for example, it's cheaper to manufacture product in Taiwan, so they set up manufacturing there, we need distribution and sales in the US because that's where the consumers are so they have stores with relatively low paying cashier jobs, we can incorporate in Ireland because of the tax benefits... and the executives? Hell they are rich enough to live where ever they want based on personal preference.
See, we haven't had much of a net loss or gain in jobs, we've had a swap of decent paying jobs for low paying jobs. It takes more skills and would require higher pay in this country to manufacture the items, so they are manufactured elsewhere now.. it takes less skill to shine the red light on a bar code and tell the person to enter their pin and hit the green button.
Lowering taxes will only alleviate the issue of corporate HQs, which are basically a paper game any way... the issue is the jobs that are shipped out that would require higher wages here to fill...
What you guys fail to see is that America CAN compete with the rest of the world because it isn't all about wages.
We have a very stable government with extensive Patent Laws. Our leaders can't just order a CEO executed because of a mistake or something he said like other Nations do.
Our energy prices are some of the lowest on the planet.
Our workers are some of the most educated on the planet and are known for the quality of work they do.
America leads in technological development and some of the best and brightest scientists on the planet are right here, even the best of other countries are right here!
Those things all compete with the lower wages paid in other countries.
BUT!!! We also have some of the highest business taxes on the Planet and we need to fix that. I never said businesses are to self regulate, I said someone needs to find reasonable regulations that brings them here and keeps them honest.
Pit raised a great point. A bunch of the GOP proclaims they follow Christ, but many forget about the social justive gospel that Christ valued.
Yet the left boycotts Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby, who are both headquartered here, pay their taxes, pay above market wages to their employees, provide better than market benefits, etc because of a comment from ownership or actually trying to live out their beliefs... but they don't boycott companies that don't do those things.... and I've been told that many on the left proclaim to follow Christ as well.
So do you want the GOP and the corporate entities to be like Christ or not? Seems the left wants it when it suits them and boycotts them when it doesn't.
Pit raised a great point. A bunch of the GOP proclaims they follow Christ, but many forget about the social justive gospel that Christ valued.
Keep on driving businesses out of America and you will have plenty more mouths to feed.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for one day, teach a man how to fish (like providing him with a job) and you feed him for a lifetime. Which is more Christian?
Please stop punishing the man by driving away jobs!
I must say that I believe having available health care to every American isn't about capitalism or socialism to me. For me that's simply a talking points used to construct a debate.
To me, it's about human decency and human rights.
People make it a political football. I feel it's about humanity and compassion. Things that Christ did stand for.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pit I agree to an extent and something has to give...the costs of healthcare is insane. If I thought it would prove a point I post my bills over the last 2yrs for my healthcare costs and would like to hear anyones argument that it seems right.
If I hadnt had the resources I do...we wouldve been sunk and bankrupted from it even with insurance...Idk how middle hell even high middle class survives a major medical problem...guess they dont and tap into retirement 2nd mortgage ect...to pay for it....and probably bankruptcy and just start over.
The stories Ive heard over the last couple years at the DR's and hospitals has been depressing to listen to.
PitDAWG You can't reason with 40. He will spew non-facts and GOP rhetoric until they pry his withered dead hands off his fun gun. Even he is smart enough to see this country has gone to hell under trickle down globalization but he just can't admit that he was date raped by the party he decided to take to the prom.
OldCold, I'm not what 40 thinks I am. I'm not a hard core liberal. I do have a bit of humanitarian in me, but Bernie is no less a product of anger than Trump is.
A lot of help would come in the form of the government negotiating drug prices. Allowing competition from state to state from insurance carriers. The programs Bernie advocates are not sustainable. I admire Bernie for having the same thoughts and ideas over the decades. I believe he sincerely wants the best for the average American. That's more than I can say about most politicians.
But his radical programs simply won't work. His cause is noble, but this country simply isn't ready to embrace them. I don't know that it ever will be.
My wish for everyone to have proper health care is not politically motivated. It's about the difference between capitalism and human rights. It's about compassion. Unbridled capitalism over basic human rights has gotten us to this point. It won't be a problem Bernie or anyone can easily fix.
Bernie will only further divide us as a nation and cause the stagnation of our political process to even further stagnate. But then, I believe that will happen no matter who is elected from all of the front runners.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm pretty much the same as you. Humanitarian in what I feel is right. I'm backing Bernie though because I think drastic is exactly what we need right now. Not that I expect him to push his promised agenda through this congress, but he at least will start the negotiation from a position of the farthest left you could hope for.
I honestly think he will be elected, and by a landslide. People are sick of the status quo and are demanding change, he promises that change. He is also the most "honest" candidate I've seen in my life. I think the guy has real American integrity, and that's unheard of in politicians these days.
I honestly think he will be elected, and by a landslide
I think its the opposite...he will lose in a landslide...but in some crazy chance he wins it all and the dems get the houses back and his crap starts getting pushed through...well I have the ability to up and move somewhere in the world where Ill feel better suited.
That would be a shame because I love this country and its better then anywhere else Ive lived in the world before...but it would mean this country has turned into a direction unacceptable for me.
Unlike many, I will not try to degrade you or question your support of Bernie. My wife feels the same as you do. I do believe he's honest and has integrity unlike most politicians we see today.
I don't want someone who uses imminent domain to further their wealth, someone who wants to see if sand will glow or a puppet that looks like a robot.
I just find the political climate worsening as time grows and none of us will gain by the polarization that currently exists and grows stronger every day.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pit I dont like Trump a whole lot but if it come down to him and Bernie/Hillary well that would be one of the easiest choices Ive ever voted for....Trump and I wouldnt feel bad about it in the least...other peoples opinion varies I dont mind...its what makes us unique as people.
tell that to the people struggling to pay their bills. how in god's name could that possibly come out of your mouth?
Last edited by Swish; 02/08/1608:26 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
-This? This is about how America can still compete with those countries with low wages...
What you guys fail to see is that America CAN compete with the rest of the world because it isn't all about wages.
We have a very stable government with extensive Patent Laws. Our leaders can't just order a CEO executed because of a mistake or something he said like other Nations do.
Our energy prices are some of the lowest on the planet.
Our workers are some of the most educated on the planet and are known for the quality of work they do.
America leads in technological development and some of the best and brightest scientists on the planet are right here, even the best of other countries are right here!
Those things all compete with the lower wages paid in other countries.
BUT!!! We also have some of the highest business taxes on the Planet and we need to fix that. I never said businesses are to self regulate, I said someone needs to find reasonable regulations that brings them here and keeps them honest.
-See, we have all these things going for us to attract businesses to America. Low wages is only part of the picture. Help?
What you guys fail to see is that America CAN compete with the rest of the world because it isn't all about wages.
No, they cannot.
Quote:
We have a very stable government with extensive Patent Laws. Our leaders can't just order a CEO executed because of a mistake or something he said like other Nations do.
Can you name a single industrialized nation with a profitable business environment that executes CEOs?
What you guys fail to see is that America CAN compete with the rest of the world because it isn't all about wages.
No, they cannot.
Quote:
We have a very stable government with extensive Patent Laws. Our leaders can't just order a CEO executed because of a mistake or something he said like other Nations do.
Can you name a single industrialized nation with a profitable business environment that executes CEOs?
OldCold, I'm not what 40 thinks I am. I'm not a hard core liberal. I do have a bit of humanitarian in me, but Bernie is no less a product of anger than Trump is.
Why is anger driving us? Why isn't just dissatisfaction with our political and economic state? I don't think I'm angry, but that's just me.
Lol less of a political rally, more of a pre game college rally.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
