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true but right now our RT is a ?. and Erving ...don't have the words for this forum on how I thought he played last year...yes I know people are saying he played out of position...but man o man... I agree that the two empty spots are huge question marks, but given the three guys we will have on the line, it will be hard for our line to be as bad as the line Garcia had.
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yea I agree but if we trade JT for draft picks then....it would a felony assault on our new QB...guess we have to wait and see what we do before the draft comes along, that will be most telling.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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yea I agree but if we trade JT for draft picks then....it would a felony assault on our new QB...guess we have to wait and see what we do before the draft comes along, that will be most telling. If we trade Joe Thomas I will immediately changed to the "do not draft a QB" camp.
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All Pro
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What if we traded Joe Thomas for the Titans #1 and either #2 this year or #1 next year?
(Not advocating this, and I really don't think the Titans would do it, but we could definitely make some leaps forward with four of the top 33 picks, especially if we hit on 3 of them).
Tunsil, Wentz, Docston, Bell?
Would it be feasible?
Or, if we got this years #1 and next years, we go
Tunsil, Ramsey/Bosa, Bell/Docston? Then have the ammo to go QB/WR in RD 1 next year, or trade up for the top QB?
(I do NOT want to trade Joe Thomas, but we could certainly get something good out of him if we could actually hit on a draft pick. I would rather keep a sure fire HOFer).
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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There is a 0% chance the Titans are trading the number one overall pick for a 30 year old left tackle with two years remaining on his contract.
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not sure what JT's trade value would be this year. last year the Broncos offered a 1st round pick for him. And that was pick #23. This year might be 2nd rounder? (early) or another late 1st rounder I am guessing. I doubt we could get two high draft picks for him...but you never know in this crazy sport we call the NFL.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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#gmstrong
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While I wasn't a Wentz pimp, I would have had no issue with him being drafted. I certainly feel he is the best QB in this draft.
Now? Not so much. You see, I feel you need an environment surrounding a rookie QB that gives him the best chance to succeed. The best possible ingredients for success is a great pass blocking OL and playmakers.
We had a great pass blocking OL and plenty of money to sign a good playmaking WR. We lost two out of five of our OL and signed zero playmakers at the WR position. All we're left with is a prayer with JG and he is not trustworthy and has been out of football for a year.
At this time, I believe the environment created in Berea for a rookie QB would be setting him up to fail. I no longer believe the circumstances are right and lack the faith that circumstances will be made right to bring a rookie QB into the situation this FO has created. What if the plan is to "redshirt" him the first year? If we worry about having the perfect team in place, we'll never draft a QB. I read this somewhere. It's an excerpt from a Colt McCoy article. Can't remember who posted it..... When the draft rolled around, Cleveland ended up taking a chance on me late in the third round. They told me I’d get to spend my rookie year rehabbing my shoulder and getting back to normal. But … once again, things didn’t quite go according to plan.
As it turned out, the Browns would need me earlier than they thought they would. Both quarterbacks ahead of me on the depth chart got hurt early in the year, and I was flung into the starting role in Week 6. The thing was, I was only getting to practice two or three days per week because I still had issues with my arm the day after throwing. Being a rookie with a bum shoulder and limited practice reps in the AFC North wasn’t exactly a recipe for success.
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Your "memory" works fine.
I've said they actually need to stick to that plan, and I have stated how I'd go about it.
What would you do, Vers? I'm guessing you'd do whatever the Browns end up not doing, but you won't definitively ever say what you actually would do. You'll just complain that they're not doing it right, have never done it right, and you have no hope of them ever doing it right.
Does that sound about right?
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Just finished watching Goff's Pro day.
For the record I don't put much emphasis in Pro days for obvious reasons.
However, it does give you a chance to just watch the guy throw. Given a scripted work out with no defense you watch with a grain of salt.
Goff physically looks a little soft. Not a great physical specimen. His throws look ok. He has quick feet and nice form. He was accurate for the most part. What I saw on game tape I still see. I question his ability to drive the ball on the deep out patterns.
A general observation is: he seems pretty laid back. I don't detect a fire or spark in his personality. Not something you can quantify really just a feeling.
It was kind of interesting that after the initial part was "over". Pep Hamilton wanted to see him throw some wet balls. Goff's reaction was hard to determine?
His Pro day or anyone's is not a big deal to me so the needle did not move one way or the other.
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jc
Question for everyone that wants wentz of goff at #2:
For those that want Wentz, if someone trades up to #1 and takes Wentz, do you then want Goff?
For those of you that want Goff, if someone trades up to #1 and takes Goff, do you then want Wentz?
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Legend
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jc
Question for everyone that wants wentz of goff at #2:
For those that want Wentz, if someone trades up to #1 and takes Wentz, do you then want Goff?
For those of you that want Goff, if someone trades up to #1 and takes Goff, do you then want Wentz? I think both can be long term starters in the NFL. That means you take the player that is available if the other one goes first. I am not worried about a trade up.
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For those that want Wentz, if someone trades up to #1 and takes Wentz, do you then want Goff? Maybe I'm not one who should answer this because I'm certainly not a Wentz pimp. He would however be my choice if this FO decides to draft a QB. But I am not a person who believes you can draft a QB by simply saying "insert name here". I don't believe there is another QB in this draft class that holds the potential to be near the QB that Wentz holds. So my answer would be no. If they're not drafting Wentz at #2, they certainly need to draft another position besides QB. I'm actually not opposed to drafting another position as it stands.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pit, I agree with the statement:
I am not a person who believes you can draft a QB by simply saying "insert name here".
What I know is that we need a Qb.
What I don't know is if either of these guys will be any good.
A lot of posters feel strongly about one of these Qb's. I thought it would be interesting to see what these people would do if the guy they want is gone. If Wentz pimps want Goff or Goff pimps want Wentz if their guy is gone, then that says something.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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If Wentz pimps want Goff or Goff pimps want Wentz if their guy is gone, then that says something. Both guys can't be good?
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If Wentz is taken by someone trading up I would consider many different options. If trading back was a option I would look at it. The main consideration would be how far and what I could get in trade.
Given that Wentz went number one; Tunsil would be on the table. I have not scouted him and do not consider myself a OL guru. But going on what others think of him and what limited amount I have seen he would have to be considered.
The other consideration would be if they trade Thomas which may very well happen if the offer is right.
There are things I like about Goff but I am not over the top with him. I can not put my finger on it but it is almost like he expects to be good but I can't tell if he has that burning desire to be great.
Bosa seems like a complete solid guy who would help any team.
If they made a trade for Thomas or traded back Lynch or Goff could come into play.
The dark horse in this is Connor Cook. I could see the Browns getting him with pick 32.
It is no secret I am all about Wentz and have been since before Christmas. It would hurt me if the Browns do not get him. But that would not be new.
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Me? No just Wentz but now we got Tunsil either we take him...or we Auction him off and get something real good definitely 3 high picks. All pending on how far back we are going! If not too far then somebodies 1st and 2nd rounder.
What ever we do I'm for it - 3 years from now I might criticize it... but not right after the draft. Unless we took WR at #2...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I know you been on him for along time. I'll say I like his release. I also like that he expects to be good. I like that. I just don't have any desire to debate anything anymore. After the last crash of this site I lost over 10,000 post. I'm going to be 64 in 3 month's. On may 10th I get my third hip replacement.
Hell I watched the 64 game. Look at my member number. It's 13. I've been on this board forever. And now I'm a newbie again. Well at least vers knows I'm old.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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I know you been on him for along time. I'll say I like his release. I also like that he expects to be good. I like that. I just don't have any desire to debate anything anymore. After the last crash of this site I lost over 10,000 post. I'm going to be 64 in 3 month's. On may 10th I get my third hip replacement.
Hell I watched the 64 game. Look at my member number. It's 13. I've been on this board forever. And now I'm a newbie again. Well at least vers knows I'm old. Does anyone even pay attention to the post count?
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Yes when it gets into a heated debate. Hell a few yrs ago I went of on Mac and surely expected a timeout. And I'm tired of people that don't respect your opinion because of your post count. Anyways I do read these threads daily but I have no desire to post anymore.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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On may 10th I get my third hip replacement.
Hell I watched the 64 game. Well at least vers knows I'm old. Dude, you have 3 hips?!  Good luck with that surgery. I know you're old. I got here in '01. You were here then as I remember.
#gmstrong
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If Wentz pimps want Goff or Goff pimps want Wentz if their guy is gone, then that says something. Both guys can't be good? They can. And that is what I am trying to figure out. Do people like both these guys and prefer one or do they like only one but not the other.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Nor - I remember you from the old board.
Don't worry about post count and keep posting. Hate to lose a smart reasonable poster.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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If Wentz pimps want Goff or Goff pimps want Wentz if their guy is gone, then that says something. Both guys can't be good? They can. And that is what I am trying to figure out. Do people like both these guys and prefer one or do they like only one but not the other. I like both, I just think Goff is more of a sure thing. We need the more sure thing at this point in time.
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Does anyone even pay attention to the post count? Not many, but I suspect there are a few. It is not the quantity, but rather the quality of the posts that matter...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I never pay attention to a poster's number of posts. Just ignore those that do.......because they probably aren't all that smart to begin with. And yeah, you're old. 
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Good luck with your hip replacement, Nordawg. I had both hips replaced last fall, and its no picnic. Hang in there, it'll get better if you do the rehab faithfully. At least that's what they keep telling me, LOL.
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Dave this will be my 3rd hip replacement. I also have a knee and ankle replacement. They have rebuilt both shoulders and both thumbs. Damn artristis went straight to all my joint's. It's just a matter of time before I need another surgery. And Vers I know I'm old , but you my friend are no spring chicken. lol
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Rarely do I ever look at a post count...Heck I usually can remember what anyone says 2 days ago...my attention is on the current subject and the input.
Didn't you use to have a Unicorn but not on a horse in your old avitar?
Anyways keep on posting if you have a thought...screw everyone else - it shouldn't matter...Express Yourself. Btw...64 was my first year in Cleveland, my first year experiencing team sports including football. Got hooked!
Catch you later
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I know I hadn't seen you post in a very long time. Stick around. Good luck with the surgery.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm sorry you are going through all that, Nor. Keep posting, we miss you around here.
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Slow day went back to look at some more tape of the quarterbacks.
Saw that Charlie Casserly did a survey:
"Did 12 team survey of teams not needing QB in 1st round & who they would take between Goff & Wentz. Vote was: Wentz 8 Goff 4 @nflnetwork"
Thought that was interesting.
Every time I go back to look at tape of the quarterbacks prospects in this draft the more convinced I am about Wentz.
Watching Goff I get why some people like him. He is a talented player. Before the regular 2015 season ended I was already looking at guys like Hackenberg and Goff. Goff was the guy I was leaning toward at that time. Then in December I started watching Lynch. Saw a quarterback listing which just showed guys and their measurements when I noticed Wentz because of his size. I thought I would take a look.
Given the current roster and the realistic prospects for the 2016 season Wentz for me will make the season bearable. I truly believe that Wentz will make the fans of Cleveland happy if we end up with him.
I understand everybody's reluctance and the risk factor with quarterbacks. I get the needs on defense and other positions. Lots of negativity swirling around about the Browns. Ownership, Front Office, how decisions will be or are being made. Free agency and the loss of players.
The one thing that will make things feel better for all Browns fans is getting the right guy to quarterback the team.
We know the team is in bad shape. We know 2016 will be no picnic. But at the end of the season if we start to see that maybe we found our quarterback things will look a whole lot better.
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I like Goff but I just fully believe he is a warm weather Dome QB in this league not really built for the afc north.
Wentz I like but he is in no way worth a top 10 pick.
Lynch I like better than either guy but I woudlnt take him top 10 either. Trade down take your top QB and live with it. trade down a few times if u can.I think Lynch's upside is just off the charts but he has to learn to work from under center.
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j/c A few weeks ago I wrote a post declaring my support for Cardale Jones as my preferred QB pick for the Browns. I still feel that way. I came across an article on Rookie Scouting Portfolio that offers some insights into Cardale's career arc at OSU and looks at some of his mechanics that I think are generally underrated.
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Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Move McCown to #2.
Draft QB in Mid to Late rounds. Let him sit for 2 seasons.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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In our situation you're right. They have to hit often in the draft. Yet we have no real football people in the FO, so the odds aren't good on that.
I don't see the ability to fix our OL and add the weapons needed by 2017 for a young QB to succeed here. I've seen so many good, young prospects ruined across this league from this exact same situation, I simply can't advocate it. Let's face it, as it stands we'll have just as good if not a better opportunity at a QB in the draft next year.
Let's fill some holes first and get everyone on the same page before we bring some kid in and get him killed. Great. When the holes are filled then maybe we can start looking for a QB. LMAO When will that be? I haven't see a Browns team in decades that wasn't riddled with holes. If one of these QB's can be a franchise player and we pass? Then this team deserves what it gets. When a QB you can work with is there.... YOU TAKE HIM. THEY DON'T COME AROUND VERY OFTEN!
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I'm not sold enough on any QB in this draft to consider them a must have. There is no Andrew Luck in this draft. I don't see this class as head and shoulders above next year in regards to QB's. If I did, I would feel differently. And I'm not saying to build the perfect team before we draft a QB. But a stable OL with a year of working together would certainly be nice. You actually sum it up nicely with your sig. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.... I'm not asking for a silk purse. But a sow's ear is what we're dealing with now. That's not the right environment for a QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c A few weeks ago I wrote a post declaring my support for Cardale Jones as my preferred QB pick for the Browns. I still feel that way. I came across an article on Rookie Scouting Portfolio that offers some insights into Cardale's career arc at OSU and looks at some of his mechanics that I think are generally underrated. I gotta say. I agree. I'm doing a mock on another site for Cleveland and for Denver and I drafted Treadwell, Doctson, and Jones for the Browns in rounds 1-3 (no trades allowed.) I planned on taking Jones in the 4th and taking a OT or defender in the third, but all of my third round targets got snatched up so rather than risk missing out on the QB I just took him at 3.
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For what it's worth, I respect your prospect evaluations, having read most of your post over several seasons. So it does mean something that you don't think this is just homerism.
If the team decides that he's the target I think they have to be prepared to use the third round pick to get him.
Another factor, I do think the environment for Jones would be healthier if there were two QBs ahead of him on the depth chart entering the league. Since the Browns have kicked the tires on Kap and RG3, definitely talk to Fitzpatrick also. I'd be incline to give him something he couldn't refuse... for two years. If that isn't feasible, I'd hold my nose and sign RG3.
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If Cardale Jones had played at SD St, he might be talked about as the best qb in the draft class.
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