DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RGIII Continued

Yeah, me too.

I'm more confident in the former rather than the latter.

I don't think its a question of whether Griffin can make reads or not he's proven he can. You can see it on film. The question, for me at least, is how soon can he achieve mastery and what type of offense do you build around him in the meantime? How much patience do you show?

I think its only a matter of time, I'm confident in the kid all around, but what else is new?

I know he's your boy. I respect that.

I hope this doesn't make you mad, but I disagree about reading coverages. That is why I posted all those earlier posts about reading defenses pre and post-snap.

He has really struggled w/post-snap reads and has taken a lot of sacks as a result.

If RGIII is going to succeed in Cleveland, I really believe Hue is going to have to tailor his offense to fit his strengths and even more importantly...mask his weaknesses.

That would include an offense where he has more plays w/one read. Even more importantly, he will need to design plays where RGIII only has to read half the field. One read, if not there, check down or take off. He's a disaster in the pocket when asked to go through his progressions. However, he has that great arm.........so, mixing in 8 and 9 routes to hit home runs while keeping the defense honest, would be smart.

I hope they can pull it off.

I think Hue is going to have to simplify the offense, but put more and more on his plate as they go. One read and run may work for a while, but not for a long while. I think half the field is a good bet to start, especially if they roll him out. I think he's got to put more and more on him though because in the NFL other defenses can dissect a simple offense pretty quick.

That makes sense.

This is what I was trying to say last week week when I tried to post that taking advantage of what RG# does well doesn't mean running only a read option offense and pistol formation plays.

If anyone remembers it, 'm sure you do. You commented on it and I get the feeling you don't forget much that happens on this board

Point is, you said said it more eloquently than my attempt.

I do remember, bro. Not sure about the eloquent part. That ain't really me. LOL

I do have a good memory. Always have. Got it from my mother. It's a blessing and a curse at the same time.............if that makes any sense?????

For simplicity I used the term read-option heavy as short hand for Shanahan's offense during RG3's rookie season. As I was doing so it did occur to me the the Panthers offense, this past season, was also read-option heavy so I concede that might not be the most precise way to describe it. It lumps it together with other offenses that have produced better outcomes for the teams running them. I didn't want to belabor the whole well known injury, coming back too soon and running the same offensive scheme, thing. I didn't think I needed to. It's well documented. The argument can be made that the offense failed because Griffin hadn't recovered from his injury. You can also argue that the offense they ran contributed to the injury in the first place. I'm not saying that his unwillingness to protect himself did not also contribute to him getting hurt. I am saying the confluence of all of these factors would make me disinclined to seek a similar scheme when choosing where I would play. I would be looking for more. Even if, the evolution to a more conventional offense was gradual as was mentioned in post following mine; I would still be seeking a situation that would develop me in that way.

I don't think what Jackson will run is set in concrete. A good offensive coach should be interested in accentuating what his players do well. I certainly think that he has a definite philosophy and a preferred way of playing offense. You say he hasn't created his offense yet. I say if he doesn't know what he wants how could he evaluate that RG3 "fits"?

I never liked Don Shula much, but man, I respect him. He had Bob Griese, Czonka, Kiick, Mercury Morris and he ran the hell out of it. Later, he has Marino and the Marks brothers and throws the hell out of it.

He adjusted to his talent.

Sorry for the butchering of the spelling of guy's names. I didn't feel like looking them up. LOL

I don't get you guys and RG3. He is a 3rd string QB on Washington Scout team. Somebody has him going to the Pro Bowl when Hue get through with him. I know Hue is a QB genius which I never heard him denied. We have been trying to get a Francise QB since the Browns came back and now we finally have a chance to get one. Most all the the experts including analytics say Goff has a shot at being a great one. But of course we are talking Bosa, safety, LT and maybe picking up clowns like Cardale Hogan or Dak Prescott.Some are even talking trading down. That always works out so well for us. The Draft is setup so the crappy teams can get some GOOD players. Not trade down for more average to crappy players. We already passed up on Julio Jones,Kalio Mack and I don't know who else. Please please take a QB at 2. If RG3 works out that would be great, buy lets not put all our eggs in one basket for a injury prone RG3. Did you know that the arrogant Hue Jackson didn't even talk to RG3's last 2 coaches.

Who has him going to the Pro Bowl?

I get down on the FO all the time. I get ripped for it. But, I try and be fair. I don't see the downside of signing RGIII. He has talent. He had success in college. He had a good season in the NFL. He's cheap. We did not give up a draft pick for him.
I fail to see the problem w/giving him a shot.

No, it wasn't you that had him going to the Pro Bowl. I can't remember who it was but my problem with RG3 is , he is not the same type QB as Goff and I,m afraid Hue is so in love with RG3 that he is going to pass on Goff and go all in Griffin.

The QB evaluation is all about projection. I don't see any QB worth taking at number 2 overall. Even the QB I like, I wouldn't take there.

Well RGIII is just a short term. But still need to draft a QB in the long run.

So.. What if we take Wentz?

Well said.

Get the damn QB in here and at least give us some kind of glimmer of hope going forward with this build-up instead of putting us in a situation where we've got a QB who's fragile and a bunch of junk behind him.

Seems to be the popular opinion, but I am not so sure about that.

I totally get the blessing and the curse thing. Sometimes it seems like every silver lining has a cloud.

I look at RG3 as a lottery ticket. I am not sure that he'll pan out mainly because right now he can't make NFL reads. Now he could work his tail off, improve his reads, and prove me wrong. But I'm not holding my breathe. We will get a QB somewhere in this draft.

That being said, I look at every other QB in this draft as a lottery ticket as well. Your guy Goff may be the most NFL ready, but probably has the lowest ceiling of the top choices because of his weaker arm. He is going to need a dink and dunk offense to succeed. The other guys that you think are Clowns will take a little longer to be ready but can actually throw the ball 40 yards downfield. Every QB in this draft class is a lottery ticket though. There are no sure things.

Given that we have a history of wasting draft picks and are drafting at #2 this year. I would prefer that we are sure about whoever it is that we draft at #2. If it is Goff and we didn't trade down, my money is on us wasting another pick.

j/c

My problem with Goff is I envision a late season game against the Steelers. The weather will be terrible and our receivers won't be able to get open. He'll force things into coverage with a weak arm, and the Steelers will get a lead. We'll have to throw more to come from behind. Our O-Line will miscommunicate and James Harrison will get a free shot. Goff breaks in half.

Could this happen similarly with RG3? Yes, but we could trade the #2 pick into more assets and fill more holes. We could get receivers that can make contested catches and/or get open. We could try to fix our run D.

If we go Goff, I feel like we'll end up with another broken savior on a bad team.

Not strong does not mean weak.

Goff does not have a weak arm. He can make all the throws and has the best touch of anyone in the draft. Granted his arm is not as strong as Cardale 's but no one is except maybe Jamarcus Russell's. Who btw I think I saw working the window at McDonalds the other day.

When you say trade down to fill more holes do you mean with guys like Phil Taylor. Richardson, Gilbert?

The last thing I want is another drafted QB with questionable arm strength.

I'd prefer a McCoy over a Weeden though..

I have no problems with this signing .... I think he stinks and is going to be a bust but looking at our situation he was the best "roll of the dice" option when u take into account age and potential upside ... I just don't think he's accurate enough or makes good decisions .... But there is clearly a MAJOR LACK of QB talent in this league and we unfortunately are the poster boys of that reality ... So go ahead and take a shot at the dart board ,...

2 questions I do have ,...

I keep seeing that Hue is a QB guru ..... Who has he gurued? (Shut up vers ... *L*) .... Not being a jerk .... I looked at his past and for the life out of me can't figure out who he "molded" into an above average QB much less earned the QB "guru" moniker .....

2. What kind of QB's are Wentz and the other dude we may take at 2 .... How close is the system they will run to the system we will need to install to give RG any chance to succeed? ....

Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco are the two main ones people talk about.

he also had Jason Campbell playing the best of his career until he got hurt

I think that is a misnomer. In Campbell's two years with the Raiders he had 19 TDs and 12 INTs with a completion percentage of 59%. He was basically the same as his career average.

Which in 2016 gets you 70 million.

He started more than ten games though, that disqualifies him.

I can't wait till Bortles, Bridgewater, and Carr's next contract numbers come out in a few years..

In 2010 as Oakland's OC with Campbell at QB he had the team at 6th in the NFL in scoring. His receivers:

12 Jacoby Ford KR
85 Darrius Heyward-Bey
15 Johnnie Lee Higgins
89 Nick Miller PR
18 Louis Murphy
81 Chaz Schilens

When Louis Murphy is your top receiver, and you're 6th in the NFL in scoring, you're doing something right.

Wikipedia: 2010 Oakland Raiders season

He also had Pryor and that tiny, baby-faced white dude that I can't remember playing decent ball.

Switching gears, one thing that people forgot about when discussing if RG3 can make it or not here is Alfred Morris. Shanny and Shanny Jr. had that running game going like "wow!". IIrc, Morris and the run game's decline went hand in hand with Griffen's.

Summary: Hue needs to whip up a nasty run game to protect RG3 while the dude gets fully dialed into the offense.

I wish we would have taken Carr. Man, he is already on a path towards being one great QB. *sigh* Thank you Browns person who insisted on Manziel instead of Carr.

It figures ..... Car also carried maturity concerns, he goes to the Raiders .... and matures. Manziel carried maturity concerns, he comes here .... and is gone 2 years later.

Only the Browns.

Carr had no maturity concerns. He was seen as a high character guy whose focus was on his family.

I could have sworn that there were some issues there. Maybe I am thinking of someone else.

All I remember is people basically saying he was ganna suck because his brother sucked..

Couple things here. Totally agree here on Griffin. This guys mechanics are shot. If he ever even had good mech's. Defenses didn't know what to do with this guy his rookie year. Then they figured him out. Keep him in the pocket because his mechanics blow and he can't make a decent read if his life depended on it.

So what do some people want? They want us to bypass the top 2 QB's and go with RG, McCown and the junk behind them. Brilliant thinking. I see that as yet another year we will be looking at our 3rd stringer by mid season.

On Hue Jackson as this mystified QB genius. Totally agree. The QB's he's worked with have had success, but who's to say it was because of Jackson. Just because Huey's running the offense doesn't mean he's directly responsible for the maturation of said QB. Really wish people would drop this Genius thing concerning Huey and QB's. He hasn't proved anything to me other than the fact he runs a solid offense that can score.

Wentz and Goff are both solid QB's. Concerning those 2 and Griffin, Huey should run the exact offense he's always run. Balanced with down field throwing.

I love Wentz for many reasons but I keep playing in my mind what Jackson said the other day about what he's looking for in a QB. The stand out part was this. I want a QB that can stand firm in the pocket under distress and still sling it. THAT has GOFF written all over it. Accurate, Outstanding footwork and mechanics, excellent pocket presence and a football junkie with brains to boot. Goff's size is my only concern but the kid isn't even 22 yet.

We're gonna make a huge mistake if we don't take one of these 2 QB's at 2. And it's gonna really piss me off.

oh god it's really going to piss me off if we take a QB at #2...