DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft The WR Thread

I'd seen charts based off this, but not read this article. Has some interesting stuff.

Reception Perception 2016

So we should draft Laquon Treadwell and Josh Doctson or if we miss out on one use Sterling Sheppard or Braxton Miller as backup targets. Gee, who'd a thunk it.

Thanks for posting.

Man, I wish I could see that stuff. The data portions don't show up for me. Must be a flash issue.

I read it earlier in the draft season and thought I posted it here already.

I find data like this useful to confirm what I saw on film and point out incongruncies or highlight lesser known guys.

Boyd for example is a player I like on film and the scores made me do a double take. (still like him)

Malcolm Mitchell and the other Mike Thomas are guys I keep meaning to watch.

Shep is still my favorite WR in this draft. If Edleman/Steve Smith can play the Z why can't Shep?

Totally agree with this and it's much easier to pick a WR when Ben can throw it a mile and all you need is a track star.

What do you think of Doctson?

He's my favorite in the draft. I'll have to check out more of Shepard. I've been focusing on the one's with height as we've got Gabriel and Hawkins already, and I've been operating under the impression that Hue is fond of bigger receivers.

Here's another video I found.
Real Football Network- Top 5 WR Analytics

How typical is the Clemson game for Shepard?

Looked like the toughest challenge on paper, so was the first I watched.

I was surprised how often Clemson let him have free releases and left only a linebacker over him.

Even with that, Oklahoma didn't really seem to be trying to get him the ball.

How much did he benefit from teams being focused on stopping Perine? Shepard seemed to have a lot of single coverage, but he wasn't getting a lot of targets.

Doctson is the opposite. Teams would have multiple defenders around him, and TCU would still get him the ball.

I like him on 3rd down and in the Red Zone. And his speed is better than he gets credit for. His 10 yard split was solid (faster than the track guy Listenbee) and it shows up on deepballs as he uses his burst almost like a passrusher to dip and get past DBs once the ball is in the air. His basketball background shows up in his ability to leap on the run and find the ball.

I also like his awareness and body control. Look at the pic from his freshman year at Wyoming in this article.

SI.com Doctson Article

Shepard has been the man since before Perine got there. He's legit.

Keep hearing that Treadwell is falling on draft boards and Fuller has passed him by. That is good news for us if we are trading down.

Would be nice to trade down and trade down again and get Lynch. then trade up from 32 and get Treadwell. Wont happen but would love it if we did.

Doctsun-great reaction/body control to adjust to make tough catches look easy, uncanny ability to judge when/how to go up for the ball, caught a ton of downfield bombs from Boykin (who I still like as a QB prospect 7th/UDFA steal), I think Doctsun is the best WR in draft and will proly get drafted before pick the Browns 2nd round pick.

I haven't watched the Clemson game. Looking at the box he had 7 for 87. I'll give it watch tonight if I can.

I'm not sure what your question is though..
*shrugs*

Did defenses play Shepard like Clemson did all year?

I think Doctson goes in the 7-24 range. He's kind of why I'm leaning trade down. We need a number one receiver.

Move back to 7. Move 32 up.

Take BOTH Treadwell and Doctson.

Treadwell
Doctson
Hartline
Hawkins
Barnidge
Johnson

Solid group. If Griffin can make quick throws, we could do some damage. Use the later picks to fill other positions, maybe grab Hackenburg in the 4th..

I was with you up to Hackenburg, then you lost me.

Agreed, Hackenburg is the most overrated player in the draft imo.

As an aside, I also love Coleman out of Baylor. Just so explosive with the ball.

Hell draft 4 or 5 wr's.
won't be able to stop anyone,won't be able to run the ball,will be on the 6th or 7th QB by mid-season.But those wr's sure will look pretty running routes.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...rst-round-pick/

Jon Gruden will be “shocked” if Hackenberg isn’t a first-round pick

Posted by Mike Florio on April 19, 2016, 2:47 PM EDT
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AP
Jon Gruden is only nine days away from taking a figurative (or maybe literal) whiz on an electric fence.

In an item posted earlier today on ESPN.com’s premium Insider service, the former Buccaneers and Raiders coach says this about Penn State quarterback Christian Hackenberg: “I’ll be shocked if Hackenberg is not a first-round pick. The biggest surprise to me on Hackenberg is that no one is really talking about him in the first round. This was the No. 1 prospect in the nation a few years ago and someone who showed during his freshman year he could produce at a high level in a true NFL-style offense. What he showed during that first year at Penn State — before the coaching change, before the system change, before all the things that derailed him — would be enough for me to take this guy early. This man can run a 4.7-second 40, he is tough as hell and he works relentlessly. He just has to get in the right system with the right people and refocus on the small details.”

Gruden specifically praised Hackenberg for his ability to pick up former Penn State coach Bill O’Brien’s offense as a freshman.

“Hackenberg threw for 3,000 yards as an 18-year-old kid in an NFL offense that is hard to execute,” Gruden writes. “I do not think people are giving him enough credit for that. The alert signals they had when Bill O’Brien was coaching him were straight out of the New England Patriots playbook. You might see 12-15 alerts per game. The quarterback’s control at the line of scrimmage was similar to the Patriots’. We all have seen Tom Brady point to his temples countless times at the line of scrimmage. They had the same alerts and mannerisms at Penn State. For a freshman to be given that type of autonomy at the line of scrimmage is unusual. When you see the same plays from the same formations that the Patriots are running, with the same audible mannerisms, you are like, ‘Wow, this is cool.'”

It’s not cool that the rest of Gruden’s takeaways on Hackenberg are hidden behind a paywall, but the first two are strong enough to get plenty of attention at a time when few are talking about Hackenberg as a top quarterback prospect.

The naysayers include ESPN’s top two draft experts. In December, Mel Kiper said that Hackenberg should consider returning to school for another season. Todd McShay said this about Hackenberg: “With a 53.3 percent completion rate this season, he’s simply not accurate enough to warrant first-round consideration.”

Coincidentally or not, Gruden’s remarks are coming to light the same day that his brother’s team is hosting Hackenberg. It’s fairly clear what Washington’s pick would be if the elder Gruden were the team’s head coach.

If nothing else, it should make for an interesting discussion between Gruden and Kiper on the ESPN set as Hackenberg slides toward Washington’s selection, and likely beyond.

I can't figure out Hackenberg.

That being said, if we took him in the 2nd I'd be upset, but if we got him in the 3rd or lower I might be happy.

Is there a QB Gruden doesn't like? I seems to me he gushes over every QB he interviews or profiles.

I respect your QB evaluations.

Hackenberg has a good QB body, nice arm, and looked very good his freshman year. But he hasn't looked good since. He has had some terrible O-lines, which has lead, in my opinion, to some bad habits that he will have to unlearn if he is to recover his freshman promise. I think Prescott and Jones are more promising prospects at that stage of the draft.

I like Prescott and Jones as well.

But Hackenberg showed that he can.

Which means he possibly can again.

Price is everything as to how happy I'd be if we got him.

I guess I didn't see what you saw. First I only saw an LB cover him twice. I saw Clemson use their best CB #2 and best S #15 (both NFL prospects btw) on him a lot. And like any WR he faced both press and off. Shep looked good there are a bunch of plays that stood out but only picked 2. I think he wrongly gets pigeonholed as a "slot" WR. But in this game you get to see him win on the outside.

I agree they should have got him the ball more, but that's not Shephard problem that's a coaching/QB problem. And even still he went 7 for 87 against one of the better defenses in the NCAA.

RE: Perine, I think there is enough to evaluate by watching the prospect so whether Perine effects Shep is too speculative for me.

Here's Shep beating Alexander (one of the better CBs in this draft) on a deep post that would have went for ~40ish yards but the QB sailed the throw...


Here'a a catch that shows his ability to adjust to the ball in flight...

I'm not a fan of the stills, it's hard to get a sense of what exactly is going on in them. I like video where I can run it back and forth.

When Mackenzie was covering him, I didn't see him do much. His one big catch, which I'll admit was nice, was against Ryan Carter. Also it looks like it was more of a back shoulder throw than a beating his man throw.

I'm not really trying to say that he was bad, I think he could be solid. I'm just not seeing the "best" receiver in the class.

You see he went 7 for 87, I see they gave him 6 for ~45, then he had one big play the whole game when some guy I'd never heard of was in coverage. You see him beating Mackenzie, I see Mackenzie in his hip pocket (at least in the stills). I do remember a throw from Mayfield that had me wondering how in the world he had been in the Heisman conversation.

I guess you just had me expecting more going in, so I was disappointed compared to my expectations.

I expected Panthers' Steve Smith and ended up seeing more of the Giants' version.

I'll have to check out some more of his games.

nobody did anything while being covered by Mackenzie the past two seasons. It's the reason he's a first rounder despite having zero college INTs.

This thread just became a whole lot more relevant.

Some of us strongly suspected that it would awhile ago.

Yeah, Mackenzie popped more than Shepard to me.

I'm surprised Mackenzie isn't projected earlier.

I think Mayock has him outside his top 5 CBs.
Mayock's Positional Rankings 4.0

Trade down again. Josh Doctson.

Boomdizzle.

I'm sure Washington would be very interested in moving down to 32... Their major needs appear to be 3-4 DE, C, RB, ILB. 32 is a great spot for those picks.

Could be Doctson or Spence at 21 if we move up from 32.

I don't think there will be any moving up. Moving up requires giving up assets. We are in the acquisition business.

Need Zeke Elliot to fall to us at #8 and a team like Miami would trade up from #13 to us at #8 for their 2nd round pick #42.

Would give Cleveland

#13
#32
#42
#65
#77
3 4th round picks
3 5th round picks

That is how you build thru the draft.

Well of course video is better then stills, but stills are better then nothing. And we have the game on youtube to reference.

I feel like you're shifting the goal posts. First you said Mackenzie didn't cover Shep--by my count Mac lined up on Shep 16 snaps by the 6 min mark. You also said that Shep was covered by LBs a lot that happened twice. Now you're saying he didn't do much when Mac was covering but you don't grade a receiver down because the QB/coach didn't target him or didn't target him accurately. Look at play 6:10 he beat Mac so bad on a whip route that Mac almost falls down. And like I said before Mac is a stud and one of my favorites CB in the class (which to be clear is not to say he's the best CB in this class); if you haven't seen it already you should listen to his combine press conference (I might post it in the DB thread).

The second set of still I posted specifically to show Shep's ability to adjust to the ball in flight, iirc I used those exact words. I didn't say Shep beat his man. I highlighted that play because it was a great catch and the ability to adjust to the ball in flight is a trait he shares with Doctsun.

When you nitpick positive plays from a game where he 7 for 87 against a very good defense...well it sure seems like you're trying to say he was bad.
And, if you recall I didn't day Shep was the best WR. Its only a few posts ago where we discussed Doctsun whom I already listed as the top WR in this class. I said Shep was my favorite WR.

<--Comments like this don't reinforce your stance that you're not trying to say he was bad.

The play occurs @ 4:09-
Shep is running a deep post/deep over route. He wins inside position and has the angle w/ Mac stacked behind and to his right with green grass and open field to the left, except the ball is thrown vertically up the hash marks and Shep adjust and is forced to turn into Mac

All I said was he was my favorite receiver. You filled in whatever you thought that meant...you could have just asked why I like him *shrugs*

Um..okay, I guess we see Shep differently.

The #8 pick has a value of 1400

#13 1150
#42 480

So that trade actually would favor the Browns. You will not get more than that in a trade down from 13 to 8.

Depends on who's there, and how bad someone wants him.

"Numerous sources" have told TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline that Clemson CB Mackensie Alexander is "a very difficult person to deal with off the field."

Additionally, "some of his [college] coaches are giving Alexander less than rave reviews to NFL teams." The junior cornerback's been the topic of discussion across war rooms leading up to the draft, and it sounds like off-field issues could push Alexander down boards. Alexander is viewed by some as a potential mid-first round pick. Alexander is 5'10/190 and ran a 4.47 forty at the Tigers' Pro Day.

Source: Walter Football Apr 19 - 10:25 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football/?ls=roto%3anfl%3amorenewstop

don't need people with attitude problems or substance abuse problems. It's and automatic disqualifier if I am a GM or analytics guys.