DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Browns trade #2 pick to Eagles

Peen...no, really it does depend on what these Bigbrain Harvard boys do with the picks they have gotten in trade. If they swing and miss on picks 77 and 100 this year, it's a bad deal. If they swing and miss on the first rounder next year, it's a bad deal...and same goes for the pick in 2018.

I will say this, if Bigbrains were scared to pick a QB at #2 because they lacked experience or did not feel comfortable in their ability to judge QB talent...trading back was probably a relief and a good choice for the those in charge of running this draft.

The most challenging choice for any front office is picking a QB at the top of the draft. Some front offices are confident in their ability to make that pick and some clearly are not.

This front office is brand spanking new with zero experience judging football talent and have never even conducted a draft. More than likely, Sashi and Depo were so damned scared of making a mistake picking #2 that they begged for someone to trade something for the pick...oh wait, Sashi was shopping the #2 pick just a week ago.

When the front office's head strategist (DePodesta) is flying to Florida to meet with Bill Parcells just two weeks before the draft, that is NOT a good sign that everything is under control in Berea. Best advice Parcells could have given if this front office did not feel comfortable making the #2 pick, move out of it any way you can.

This front office is in dire need of leadership with a background in football. Without it, the Browns front office is incomplete.

Green Bay — The rise of North Dakota State's Carson Wentz and the fall of Michigan State's Connor Cook underscore the fleeting nature of scouting reports and how perceptions of quarterbacks can change dramatically in less than a year.

Last May, Cook was ranked second and Wentz 13th among the class of senior quarterbacks by National Football Scouting Inc., the largest of the two scouting combines that serve NFL teams.

Next week, Wentz could be the Los Angeles Rams' selection with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, whereas Cook might fall all the way to the second round and possibly even the third.

NFS, whose members include the Green Bay Packers and 19 other clubs, gave Wentz a priority free agent grade of 4.91 entering his senior season. It represented the opinion of one area scout who went to Fargo, N.D., watched tape and wrote a report that was later disseminated and discussed with personnel from all 20 teams.

Among the quarterbacks rated far ahead of Wentz were USC's Cody Kessler and Arizona State's Mike Bercovici. Wentz also trailed Liberty's Josh Woodrum, Massachusetts' Blake Frohnapfel, Florida State's Everett Golson and Western Kentucky's Brandon Doughty, who, like Bercovici, might be pleased just to secure a free-agent contract after the draft.

"The scout missed him," said a personnel director for one of the NFS member teams. "It was just one scout's opinion."

Meanwhile, Cook received a grade of 6.01, making him a late first-round pick.

"In the summer time he was highly regarded," said an AFC personnel man. "He was overvalued."

Blesto Inc., the other combine, provided its eight member teams with spring grades from two scouts. Using a far different scale, Wentz received grades of 1.7 (seventh round) and 1.3 (third round), whereas Cook received grades of 1.4 (fourth round) and 1.18 (first round).

Everyone knows that preseason grades represent little more than a starting point for scouts exhausted from one draft and now having to switch gears and prepare for another. The measurements and other basic information are more important for teams than the grade, which will be superseded by team scouts.

Still, it's rather startling to see how far Wentz and Cook moved in opposite directions. A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation reflects the change.

In the survey, scouts were asked to name their five favorite quarterbacks in order, with first place worth five points, second place worth four and so on.

Jared Goff, the junior from California, edged Wentz, 73 to 711/2. Goff had eight firsts, one more than Wentz.

Third was junior Paxton Lynch of Memphis with 52 points (one first) and fourth was Cook, who also had one first and totaled 29.

Following, in order, were Christian Hackenberg (11), Dak Prescott (61/2), Jacoby Brissett (four), Jeff Driskel (31/2), Kevin Hogan (21/2), and Cardale Jones and Nate Sudfeld, each one.

Wentz' ascension is more the result of his impressive performance on the field and in interviews during the Senior Bowl and combine than a senior season in which he missed eight of the Bison's 15 games with a broken wrist.

A small-town guy from the North Dakota capital of Bismarck, Wentz seems to have captivated his audience.

"He's a humble kid that was raised right," an AFC personnel director said. "He has high ambition, a good mind and a high likability factor. I think very highly of him."

Of the 69 quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 1984-2015, just two — Steve McNair from Alcorn State in '95 and Joe Flacco from Delaware in '08 — hailed from non-FBS colleges.

If Wentz turns out as good as McNair and Flacco, his employer probably would be ecstatic.

Several scouts said their main reservation concerning Wentz was caliber of competition and North Dakota State's overwhelming march to five straight FCS championships and a 71-5 record.

Wentz walked on and redshirted in 2011, backed up Brock Jensen for two seasons and then started just 23 games (20-3) the past two years. Jensen, from Waupaca, Wis., didn't last long as a Dolphins free agent in 2014 before finding work in the CFL.

"He has skyrocketed this postseason for a guy being hurt most of the year," said an NFC personnel man. "It took three years to start in I-AA. I know he had a hell of a career.

"He couldn't beat out Brock Jensen and now he's going to be the (top) pick in the draft? He's just got a scary profile."

Sixteen of the 17 scouts agreed to pick the best candidate to bust from among the leading passers. Cook led the way with six votes, Lynch garnered five, Hackenberg had three, and both Goff and Wentz had one.

Cook sat out Michigan State's finest victory (at Ohio State) with a shoulder injury but was MVP of the Big Ten championship game for a second time and broke some of Kirk Cousins' school records. His rating of 93.3 was in keeping with his first two seasons as a starter, but the more scouts saw the less they appeared to like.

"He's certainly not a front-line starter that can win you games," an NFL personnel chief said. "Put him on against Iowa and Alabama if you think this guy can do it. Their biggest win, Ohio State, he didn't even play."

Many personnel people have called into question Cook's "makeup" and ability to become the face of an NFL team.

"Like to have a better work ethic out of a quarterback," an AFC scout said. "He knows it. I talked to him. He's a smart kid, a college kid. He liked to hit the streets and chase.

"He wasn't voted team captain. But, he wasn't going to get it over (center) Jack Allen no matter what happened."

That personnel man compared Cook to retired journeyman starter Kyle Orton, and it wasn't intended as a compliment.

Cook could become the Big Ten's first quarterback drafted in the first round since Penn State's Kerry Collins in 1995 when the Nittany Lions had just concluded their second season in the conference.

The Big Ten produced first-round quarterbacks Art Schlichter, Tony Eason, Chuck Long, Jim Everett, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff George from 1982-'90. None of them compared with Tom Brady (sixth round), Drew Brees (second round) and Russell Wilson (third round), who have combined to win six Super Bowls.

"Depth-wise, it's a good group, but I don't see the premier guy in there," an AFC personnel man said. "I would take (Jameis) Winston and (Marcus) Mariota over these guys. They're Pro Bowlers. These guys are solid starters."

Peen...I look at the experience level of this front office and know they are lacking when compared to other front offices...and it does show.

Those who see nothing but sunshine and roses can spin it anyway they want, but facts are facts...these guys are very lacking in experience drafting or even running a Pro football front office.

If the Browns are still looking for a franchise QB 2 or 3 yrs from now, many will point to this moment in time and judge Sashi and Depo accordingly.

If Goff and Wentz are leading their teams to the playoffs while the Browns are still trying to find a franchise QB, maybe some will finally get it.

Not that its any concern of yours but before I tell you that you should go back to school and i hear good old FU has an opening,

How many people are going to call mac out, but ignore all the guys who were so adamant that we should take a qb and NOT trade down, but are still singing the praises of the FO?

Everyone's career starts somewhere and sometime.

If you can, take a moment to listen to Sashi's presser from this morning (not sure it's up yet)


I came away from that very impressed with Sashi Brown.

Keep an open mind, you might as well.

Mac you are just on an obvious witch hunt for whatever reason. You said the Browns FO suck because they didnt trade up to get a QB and you had no idea who they should take.

We got damn near an RG3 deal and you complain. this wasnt a great draft at the top and these guys going 1 and 2 were not the best players in this draft.

You have the right to grab your pitchfork and torch but this isnt a reason to be bashing this guy. Lets see what they do from here.

We got RG3, who was never gonna be a West coast QB in Hues offense for 7 mil a year. That not nearly as risky as picking a rookie QB that honestly does not really fit Hue's scheme. Neither of these guys are great vertical passers where RG3 is.

Your other concerns about the lack of experience is COMPLETELY VALID. this situation though, I do believe you are wrong.

So far the regime brought in Hue Jackson, imho great move.
We failed to keep some of our more talented players. Bad Move especially with Schwartz.

We released overpaid old guys. I thought it was a good move most hate it.

This trade was a good move. It really was.

...that this front office is in dire need of someone with "football experience" in the front office, with a seat next to Sashi and Depo.

You mean besides the 116 years of football experience located in just the top 4 members of our coaching staff, not to mention the scounting department? Experience like that?

You're acting like it's just Haslam, Brown and DePodesta sitting in a sealed room with no outside influence. You're really working hard to discredit this front office. Relax a bit and take a deep breath...

Okay, so you claim the front office doesn't have football experience but that the coaching staff's experience isn't relevant. You then make a joke at the expense of one of the guys who's seeking out people with football experience for consultation.

We've tried going with nothing but football lifers (hello Holmgren and his buddies that literally grew up around professional football in some cases) and it was a miserable failure.

How about maybe, just maybe, we should just go with smart guys who don't have a "system" they need justify and who just want to provide their coach the best players they can? Can we not give that one a try?

You should always believe everything people say in press conferences one week before the draft.

Why wouldn't I believe it?

Because NFL teams lie all the time.

The draft hasn't taken place yet. If it passes and we still have only Griffin, McCown, Shaw, and Davis on the roster then I will join you in your outrage.

I'm not outraged. I said all along that HUE JACKSON has to be comfortable with and work with his QB. It's his choice as to whom he wants to "marry" Well, he married RG3. As long as we win there is nothing to be outraged about. Winning solves all problems. He made his choice, now it's time to rebuild RG3 into an actual quarterback that can actually read a defense. A qb that can stand in the pocket and deliver the football each and every play.As long as that happens it's all good in the hood. If he chose wrong and RG3 isn't the answer, then will will learn that very quickly and we are back to finding a new staff and front office....

They better draft RG3 some WEAPONS. We have no WR talent and no RB talent. None. Kind of hard to score when your one and only weapon is a TE.

So you're giving this regime one off season to fix this team? Fair enough. I hope you're still hating on the FO if it turns around in year 2 or 3. I'd hate for you to have to be happy if it takes more than 1 year.

This year a winning season, next year the playoffs, third year in the hunt for a SB. Why is that wrong if we are now all set at QB? If RG3 is such a GREAT player, how hard is it to build a team around him? We have TWELVE picks in the draft now. Having a STUD franchise QB and twelve picks seems to make it hard for them to lose. Right? They are SO very smart why would we have to wait years and years for results? Nope. If they are such great football minds. If RG3 is a top five QB, then we will see it in WINS.

Seems like the FO is just going to keep trading picks to acquire more picks then load the team up with mediocre mid-round players. That'll make us a winner...

We got an extra first and second round pick. Those are not mid-round picks.

Are they going to actually draft player with those picks or trade them? Drafting talent will make us better, not simply accumulating 100 draft picks.

cbus...do you believe the Browns front office is better prepared to judge QB talent than the front office of the Rams or Eagles?

Before you answer, take the time to look up the experience level of each front office and those running the scouting departments.

JMHO, but our front office did not have the confidence in themselves to make a pick at the top of the draft..so they bailed, taking a shot gun approach, hoping to hit on "some" of their many picks they rather than risking it all on one pick at #2.

The Browns looked at this draft from a negative viewpoint rather than from a positive viewpoint. They were more worried about what might go wrong picking at #2...rather than what might be right about drafting at #2.

Obviously the Rams and Eagles did not view their trade(s) from a negative viewpoint. I suppose that kind of confidence in your own ability to judge talent comes from "experience"...the very ingredient lacking in the Browns front office.

So if you drafted a QB at pick #2 would they also have to win under the same circumstances you laid out?