DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Browns trade #2 pick to Eagles

Maybe we are taking Cardale to develop... would not be unhappy about that, he can make all the throws. Last year he would have been top 5 or 10.

Peen...I look at the experience level of this front office and know they are lacking when compared to other front offices...and it does show.

Those who see nothing but sunshine and roses can spin it anyway they want, but facts are facts...these guys are very lacking in experience drafting or even running a Pro football front office.

If the Browns are still looking for a franchise QB 2 or 3 yrs from now, many will point to this moment in time and judge Sashi and Depo accordingly.

If Goff and Wentz are leading their teams to the playoffs while the Browns are still trying to find a franchise QB, maybe some will finally get it.

...do you believe the Browns front office is better prepared to judge QB talent than the front office of the Rams or Eagles?

Maybe because some of them are willing to adjust their opinion based on new information. They may have been adamant about one or the other QBs initially but upon seeing that the Browns and Hue didn't like either of them they then decided that maybe they were wrong about those QBs early on.

To me that beats the hell out of clinging to an original opinion to the ends of the earth while being resistant to new information.

Oh.........and to clarify something........I never wanted either of those QBs at #2. It would take some digging, (not by me), but it could be found that I expressed that opinion several times early on. I mention that not to prove that maybe I was right, but rather to escape any list I might otherwise find myself on as one who sings the praises of the FO no matter what.

"You are entitled to your opinion, but can you tell me what this FO will have to do before you give them some credit or at the very least the benefit of the doubt that they know more about what they are doing and what they need then you are?"


WINNING. That is how they are judged. WINNING. Nothing else. If Sashi, Hue and RG3 give us a winning program then they are what you think they are. If we lose then they aren't so damned smart. Also, I'm sure every staff and front office we've had since the return were assured of 3 or more years. We go 0-16 this year and I seriously doubt the Haslams will hold pat. They sure haven't so far.....

"You are entitled to your opinion, but can you tell me what this FO will have to do before you give them some credit or at the very least the benefit of the doubt that they know more about what they are doing and what they need then you are?"


WINNING. That is how they are judged. WINNING. Nothing else. If Sashi, Hue and RG3 give us a winning program then they are what you think they are. If we lose then they aren't so damned smart. Also, I'm sure every staff and front office we've had since the return were assured of 3 or more years. We go 0-16 this year and I seriously doubt the Haslams will hold pat. They sure haven't so far.....

I for one am a person who was/is really enamored with Wentz. I think that he is going to be really good. However, Sashi & Company know more about what they are doing, what their plan is, and who fits into their plan than I or anyone not directly involved with this FO knows. I have not and will not change my opinion about what I think about Wentz.

With that being said, I believe that our organization has made a turn for the better and may be the best we've had since the Browns return. Does that make me a homer, an idiot, clueless, or just plain football dumb? May be, but I will believe in this team regardless of what others think about our team or the FO...

Why do you keep saying the Browns are all in with RG3. There not paying him like a Franchise QB.

Howie Roseman said that the history of trading up for one player in the NFL Draft is not favorable for the team that must give up significant resources, which was one of the many topics the Eagles executive vice president of football operations addressed while speaking on a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston on Saturday.

The debate about the price associated with trading up for one player has been a popular one in Philadelphia in recent weeks because the Eagles would likely need to surrender valuable picks and/or players if they want to acquire Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota this spring.

Roseman was not discussing Mariota or any specific player, but rather the topic of draft-day trades.

"When you’re looking at trading up, at some point, your board drops off so dramatically in terms of how you evaluate that player,” Roseman said, as heard on the conference’s webcast. “But the history of trading up for one player, when you look at those trades, isn’t good for the team trading up and putting a lot of resources into it.

"Because the guys who are really good at the draft, if you’re hitting on 60 percent of your first-round picks, that’s a pretty good track record. And then it’s dropping as you go through the rounds. So really, the more chances you get, the more tickets to the lottery you get, the better you should be doing.”

Roseman shared a panel with New England Patriots executive Nick Caserio and Brian Burke, the founder of the Advanced Analytics Website.

When Roseman was general manager, he was aggressive trying to accumulate picks. The Eagles had 48 draft picks during Roseman's five years as general manager. Coach Chip Kelly now has control over all football decisions.

“At the end of the day, it’s about the player you picked,” Roseman said. “You can go through each round of the draft on players on your team and see you have guys who are really good players from the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh round. …There’s always value. You can kind of convince yourself of, ‘Who am I really going to get in the fifth or sixth round? I’m willing to give up that pick, because I really want this player in the second or third round.’ But it’s all about the evaluations and getting the right players into your building.”

Earlier in the conference, Roseman explained the process of trading up in the 2012 draft to acquire Fletcher Cox. He mentioned how that trade was essentially agreed upon the night before the draft.

I was high on Wentz also, and think he can succeed if he has talent around him. I just don't think we have that talent here now. Instead of getting a QB with no weapons, the trade down allows us to get a couple of weapons for the QB we just signed.

And if you are to believe press conferences, which SpiritBro77 clearly does, then you believe the team when they say that RGIII is not even the starter right now.

J/C

I am so sick of reading the crap on here. We got people on a message board complaining that the FO has no football IQ, and act as if they do. We have two QBs in this draft, that just a few months ago were said by most to not be worthy of a high first round, but now our team is foolish because they are not drafting one of them.

I will not even go any further, because I don't want to hear more crap about how dumb this franchise is and how smart some jackwad at a computer is compared to them.

If the Eagles were sitting at #2 and we traded up for either of these two QBs, the sentiment would be that Philly fleeced us and the FO has no clue what to do.

I really wonder why, I have to say very many, of the posters on this board even follow this team. If you have a optimistic view, you are a homer and a fool. You have no idea about anything football. If you have a pessimistic view, you are either a genius, or a hater.

Philly's FO is so smart about football, they hired Kelly and gave him the reins to decimate their team of most of their playmakers. Then they bring in Bradford, who was being paid big money, only to fall out of love with him. Then they fire the genius Kelly. Now they are moving up to number two to take a QB considered at best a low first or second round pick. And the Browns FO is being mocked?

I won't even go into how "smart" the football guys for the Rams are. It's a waste of time.

This board used to be a great place to learn football and to discuss our team. Now it is just a giant pissing match to see who can act smarter than the other about football. And for casual fans who want to give their opinion about their favorite team ridiculed and belittled by the football geniuses here. Noone is safe. It has become a bastion for internet bullies, and ego filled wannabees.

I'm ready for the bashing I'm about to get, but frankly, I don't care. I am a Browns fan, who likes to talk about the Browns. And just like many others that don't even post anymore, I could care less how smart or how right anybody else is on this board. Many just post their feelings at that moment, and then are criticized for it. Opinions don't have to be proved to anybody, they are opinions, and everybody has a right to their own.

I'm sorry for my rant, but this board is so predictable anymore, it is becoming hard to enjoy.

Here's my issue with this trade... quarterback means everything in this league. If you don't have one, you're not going to win consistently. The reason why we've been terrible since the return is that our QB play has been terrible since the return... probably the worst in the NFL.

Agreed.

We were finally in a position to fix that at #2. The team that held the #1 pick had no interest in a QB and wanted to trade the pick. There were two highly regarded QBs in the draft. We really liked at least one of them and most teams liked both to at least some degree. Not even the Browns could screw this up, right?

Mike Silver (who is 100% plugged in via Hue) said on Twitter that Goff was our guy. He also said, however, that the reason we didn't trade up for him to guarantee him is that Hue feels really good about RGIII. If he fell to us, he was the pick... but we weren't going to move up. And apparently, we didn't think highly enough of Wentz to just sit and take him once Goff was gone.

Highly regarded, but how many thought Goff and Wentz were worth the top picks? I mean, for a team like us picking that high, yeah, if you like him and he's there you have to scoop him up. But IMO there's a difference between liking a guy, liking a guy a lot, and liking a guy enough to spend two drafts worth of 1st Rd picks to get.

For argument's sake, let's say we came in to the draft originally at 8. We may really, really like Goff, but are we in a position to give up what Philly did considering the rest of our roster? Our impact player cupboard is rather bare. How do we justify giving up this year and next years pick that could net us impact players for 1 QB... then we'd be complaining for the next 2 seasons how we have no impact players. I think the prospect becomes even more absurd if we start at #2 and try to move to #1. I don't know enough about Philly to say whether they are in a position where they can afford what they gave up, or if they are just reaching in hopes it pans out.

Here's my problem with that. No one else in the league would even touch RGIII. Mike Shanahan and Jay Gruden both wanted him gone. The Broncos have a pathetic need at QB and didn't sign him. The Rams decided it was worth losing most of 2 drafts to get Goff instead of getting RGIII for free. The Eagles believed the same about Wentz. The Cowboys had nothing to lose by signing him as a hometown high upside backup yet weren't interested. The Jets still don't have a QB but didn't want him. He's seemingly a fit for Chip Kelly's offense and it didn't happen. And so on.

I liked the RGIII signing at the time. It was low-risk, high-reward. Not anymore. Now, all our eggs are in the RGIII basket and make no mistake about it, that's taking an absolute ton of risk.

I understand it's easy to conclude that we're all in on RGIII as "the guy", but it's still just speculation. When you don't have the QB you want, the next thing you need is a QB who isn't going to screw it all up, someone to hold the fort so to speak i.e. see McCown last year. We just need them to be solid for us. When you don't have the QB to build around yet, it doesn't mean you can't build.

The haul we got is nice... but no amount of draft picks will make up for what will happen if RGIII flops and Goff goes on to an even decent career in Los Angeles or Wentz in Philly. Building depth means absolutely nothing if you don't have a QB as your cornerstone. And what makes the situation even more absurd is the fact that we have so many needs that we'd need to trade down was in part created by our front office's inability to retain free agent talent.

I feel like our current regime thinks they're smartest guys in the room (gee, that sounds familiar). That they believe they can trade down, exploit the fact that Philly overpaid to move up and then out-draft the league. That they believe they can pick a QB off the scrap heap and have him turn into the same quality as the guys going #1/#2. And maybe they can.

Or... maybe they're a bunch of guys who, while intellectually brilliant, are very inexperienced in the ways of the NFL and just blew the best opportunity we've had in 10 years to fix the QB situation once and for all. If Goff or Wentz pan out, no one will care how much the Rams and Eagles paid and everyone will be ripping the Browns for missing another opportunity.

I respectfully take some issue with these last couple parts. We repeatedly see on these boards accusations of how these guys are arrogant and they make decisions based on bruised egos over what's best for the team. Yet I have yet to see a report that backs that up. For all of Schwartz's situation, I don't think even hs manager said it was about ego. But what IS out there are plenty of articles and quotes that talk about how these guys lack that ego.

I'm hoping that's not the case... but as soon as LA traded up for Goff, I got that old familiar feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I certainly don't blame you for feeling that way. We've been on the receiving end of some pretty big trades (i.e. w/ Atlanta) and we've done nothing but pissed it all away. I'd hate to think the Browns have sucked for so long that our behavior has been conditioned, but I think it's totally natural to have that sick feeling. I guess maybe I'm seeing things starting to shape up a little more than others

Someone earlier spoke of comparing the Rams FO and the Current Browns FO in regards to choosing a QB. As a former Rams fan, I saw their current GM when he first got he job. He pulled off the RGIII trade, not dissimilar to the situation Brown and DePodesta pulled off recently.

In looking back, you can say that the Rams won that trade because RGIII is a Brown, not a Redskin. But more than half of those picks they acquired are no longer with the team (Jenkins, Watkins, Pead, etc.). When they had a chance to choose a new QB (not a franchise one but a potential franchise one) they didn't. They stuck with Bradford.

Fast forward, Bradford is an Eagle. They got stuck with Foles (who is on his way out) and are now vaulting to the top of the draft to pick another "franchise" QB. Now, how smart do they look now?

My point is this: It's asinine to bask the Browns FO for percieved short comings without proof. Are they green when it comes to football? Kinda. (Brown is not but is as a GM) Does "green" equal failure? No, because every GM was once a new GM and had to make the hard decisions.

And let me say this: What Goff and Wentz do after they get picked is irrelevant to the Browns future. Completely irrelevant!!! Why, because where ever they go, success or not, will depend on THE TEAM THAT PICKED THEM! We see it with Free Agency all the time. A player has to find a team that is a good fit. A good player on one team, is not always a good player on another. It's mostly luck and desire. So if those QB's excel its because the team. Matt Cassell, anyone??

J/C

I am so sick of reading the crap on here. We got people on a message board complaining that the FO has no football IQ, and act as if they do. We have two QBs in this draft, that just a few months ago were said by most to not be worthy of a high first round, but now our team is foolish because they are not drafting one of them.

I will not even go any further, because I don't want to hear more crap about how dumb this franchise is and how smart some jackwad at a computer is compared to them.

If the Eagles were sitting at #2 and we traded up for either of these two QBs, the sentiment would be that Philly fleeced us and the FO has no clue what to do.

I really wonder why, I have to say very many, of the posters on this board even follow this team. If you have a optimistic view, you are a homer and a fool. You have no idea about anything football. If you have a pessimistic view, you are either a genius, or a hater.

Philly's FO is so smart about football, they hired Kelly and gave him the reins to decimate their team of most of their playmakers. Then they bring in Bradford, who was being paid big money, only to fall out of love with him. Then they fire the genius Kelly. Now they are moving up to number two to take a QB considered at best a low first or second round pick. And the Browns FO is being mocked?

I won't even go into how "smart" the football guys for the Rams are. It's a waste of time.

This board used to be a great place to learn football and to discuss our team. Now it is just a giant pissing match to see who can act smarter than the other about football. And for casual fans who want to give their opinion about their favorite team ridiculed and belittled by the football geniuses here. Noone is safe. It has become a bastion for internet bullies, and ego filled wannabees.

I'm ready for the bashing I'm about to get, but frankly, I don't care. I am a Browns fan, who likes to talk about the Browns. And just like many others that don't even post anymore, I could care less how smart or how right anybody else is on this board. Many just post their feelings at that moment, and then are criticized for it. Opinions don't have to be proved to anybody, they are opinions, and everybody has a right to their own.

I'm sorry for my rant, but this board is so predictable anymore, it is becoming hard to enjoy.

this board is so predictable anymore, it is becoming hard to enjoy.

cbus...do you believe the Browns front office is better prepared to judge QB talent than the front office of the Rams or Eagles?

Before you answer, take the time to look up the experience level of each front office and those running the scouting departments.

JMHO, but our front office did not have the confidence in themselves to make a pick at the top of the draft..so they bailed, taking a shot gun approach, hoping to hit on "some" of their many picks they rather than risking it all on one pick at #2.

The Browns looked at this draft from a negative viewpoint rather than from a positive viewpoint. They were more worried about what might go wrong picking at #2...rather than what might be right about drafting at #2.

Obviously the Rams and Eagles did not view their trade(s) from a negative viewpoint. I suppose that kind of confidence in your own ability to judge talent comes from "experience"...the very ingredient lacking in the Browns front office.

I think we are all guilty from time to time.

But there are some that seem to take delight in hammering those with opposing views ad naseum trying to prove they are the smartest person in the room

You are entitled to your opinion, but can you tell me what this FO will have to do before you give them some credit or at the very least the benefit of the doubt that they know more about what they are doing and what they need then you are?

This front office needs to "perform well" in the draft to begin earning my support....