DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...ready for prime time?...

Couch was sacked 56 times in 99...51 times in 2001..166 career total.

Jay Cutler was sacked 52 times in 2010..285 career total

Luck was sacked 15 times in 2015. 41 times in 2012...115 career total

I disagree with this statement because it totally disregards any number of contributing factors in a player's decision. Here are a few hypothetical factors;

The player wants to play for another team, maybe his childhood favorite, maybe to reunite with a college buddy.
The player feels unappreciated by his current team, maybe they franchised him or didn't use him the way he wanted.
The player doesn't like the prospects of his current team and wants to play for a team he thinks has a better chance of winning.
There's a team closer to where he wants to live and raise his children

These are just a few of the possible reasons that a player would rather go than stay, even for more money.

A good thing about the NFL is that none of the people involved with any teams ever lie.

True a players agent would never embellish the truth.

Reading the story below, I thought about Coach HJ attempting to sell Browns fans on Cody Kessler for the future while the front office is engaging in the promotion of Griffin as our possible starter and long term answer.

IMO, it would be best if the front office deferred to the headcoach and if the HJ simply said we have to see it play out on the field.

In Griffin's case, his ability to produce over the long term can only be answered over the "long term"...or in his case, well into the second year of his two year contract. Our front office needs to see him play for a year and half before they begin to talk about him being a long term answer, imo.

Everyone needs to take a step back and think, what was Griffin's greatest challenge in the NFL?

Browns exec Sashi Brown says Robert Griffin III could be more than just a short-term solution at QB: ‘He’s going to have to prove it’

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer
link

May 14, 2016 - 03:14 PM | Updated: May 17, 2016 - 10:53 AM

CLEVELAND: Robert Griffin III is projected to become the starting quarterback of the Browns for the upcoming season, but everyone wants to know who’ll be their quarterback of the future.
Rookie third-round draft pick Cody Kessler is a possibility. Next year’s draft may yield another option.
However, Browns head of football operations Sashi Brown said Griffin shouldn’t be ruled out.
“It could be [Griffin], certainly,” Brown said Saturday during Fan Fest at FirstEnergy Stadium. “But he’s going to have to prove it.”
The Browns signed Griffin to a two-year, $15 million contract in March, indicating they view the 2012 NFL offensive rookie of the year as a bridge starter.
But during a panel discussion at Fan Fest, Brown said “we did feel like Robert could play for a long time for us” when the team decided to sign him.
After speaking in front of fans, Brown met with reporters and was asked whether the team’s expectations for Griffin go beyond being a presumptive bridge starter.
“Our plan would be for Robert, if it carries out, to come in, solidify himself and then, if we felt like he’s our answer longer term, to begin working on a longer-term deal,” he said. “Way premature to be talking about that at this point. He’s got to be able to come in, earn the starting job and then be able to show that he can lead our offense in a manner that’s going to allow us to be successful to compete for this division and ultimately for the Super Bowl.
“That comment [about Griffin being able to play in Cleveland for a long time] was certainly in line with that, but also the fact that he’s just 26 years old and he wants to play for a long time. He provides that upside, if he’s able to come in and do what’s first, which is establish himself as a starter and a capable starter for us.”
Griffin led Washington to the playoffs as a rookie four years ago but injuries, struggles developing as a pocket passer and friction with former teammates and coaches contributed to his dramatic downfall. He spent last season as a third-string player behind Kirk Cousins and Colt McCoy without appearing in a regular-season game. Washington cut him in March. The Browns bet on coach Hue Jackson’s belief that the former No. 2 overall pick’s career can be revived.
“He’s a little bit the mirror image of us, where he’s got a chip on his shoulder, there’s a lot of noise about him on the outside, and he’s a tremendous teammate, really passionate about football, wants to learn and get better, wants to be coached hard, wants to be the best he can be,” Brown said. “He’s proven that. He’s done it before, but he knows also that he’s proven he’s got a lot of growth left for him to become the consistent player that we need him to be and he wants to be.
“So with his take on where he was in his career, where he thought he could help us, where we thought he could help us, there was a lot of mesh. And we felt like it was the right time to bring him into the Cleveland Browns’ locker room and pair him with Josh [McCown] and Austin [Davis] and Connor [Shaw] and, of course, now Cody [Kessler], and see if we can find the quarterback of our future.”
Griffin is the favorite to win the starting job, even though McCown played much better last season than his 1-7 record suggests and Jackson is infatuated with Kessler.
But the Browns aren’t ready to back one quarterback by declaring him their starter for 2016.
“There may be a time for that,” Brown said. “We’re not there now, but we always want to be developing quarterbacks here — multiple. Even when we find someone, we want to make sure that we have someone in the backup position when you look around the league and the number of teams whose playoff hopes were ruined because their starter went down or guys fluctuate in terms of their consistency from year to year. When we get a quarterback that’s established himself, we’ll worry about that. Right now, we just need to find the guy. We like the competition.”
Jackson said “it’s too soon” to name a starter. So when does he want to make the call?
“That’s hard to say because I want to feel really good about making that decision,” he replied. “... I don’t have a timeline. Obviously, we’re going to do it way before we play. If we can do it after OTAs [end in early June], great. If it has to be at another time, great. We’ll do it then, too. Whatever’s best for us, that’s what we’ll do.”
McCown completed 63.7 percent of his passes with 12 touchdowns and four interceptions last season, but the 36-year-old journeyman has been expendable since the Browns signed Griffin. Perhaps his fate hinges on Kessler’s development. Either way, Brown is at least entertaining the thought of keeping McCown.
“[We want to] have him come in and compete to be our starter,” Brown said. “Josh has been a great presence for our young guys in the locker room, and that QB room is enhanced by his presence. So that’s our plan with Josh.
“I think [keeping him even if he doesn’t win the starting job will] be a consideration. No spot’s guaranteed on our roster. But certainly he brings a lot to the table with his ability as a quarterback on the field, but he’s a great teammate off the field as well.”
Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

Management says what they have to say...for the betterment of the team. If that means uttering a "smokescreen", well so be it.

who was that guy in charge of contract negotiations and cap space the last 3 years or so? yea i guess he was not allowed to talk to any agents or players.......

You missed the important part of eo's post. Sashi's position carries much more weight now than under the "previous regime"...

you missed my point. it was not one month like eo says. sashi could have been talking to them for years.

No, I didn't miss your point. Sashi was handling the contracts but not in the same position of authority as he now is, so yes, eo is correct in what he stated...

This is the kind of wisdom I like to see from this FO.

The point you are missing is that even though he did negotiate contracts, he did that for players of whom the GM told him to negotiate. He did not have the authority to negotiate contracts with players whom he, himself, thought should be re-signed. Farmer told him who to deal with as Farmer was his boss in that regard.

Someone besides Sashi was responsible for the decision of who to negotiate with, he couldn't just take it upon himself to go over the head of his bosses and negotiate on his own regardless of what his opinion of the players involved.

I really don't understand why some don't see that. Any one of us, in our own jobs, just can't go over our bosses head to do things that are not within our authority to do simply because we think it's the right thing. No matter how much we think we know what should be done, we can't do it without the boss ordering it to be done.

Is that so hard to understand?

he did negotiate with most the players that left. he is the cap guy. his word how much... his job to help sell the players that left on the team. that has been going on for 3 years.

so your saying regardless of what his boss (farmer) wanted Sashi should have negotiated contracts with anyone ne wanted and go to whatever amount he wanted to get his players.... yeah ok

Just reminding people ......

Rey Farmer was fired somewhere around January 3. Some opine that he could have been relieved of his duties prior to that. Sashi Browns was named to his football post on January 3, as well. We hired Hue Jackson 10 days later, on January 13. We had our key people in place early in the process. Our Director of Player Personnel was the last key personnel piece to be hired, and we hired Berry on January 27th.

Free agency opened on March 7.

Sashi Brown was reportedly negotiating with, at least, Benjamin, prior to the time he was named head of football ops. He was also negotiating with Mack's and Schwartz's people.

Brown didn't just set up shop on March 7, and have free agency hit him out of the blue. He was named to his new post earlier than almost any other football decision maker I can think of recently. The Browns did not have to interview anyone, because they promoted from within. The league year opened on March 7. Brown had a full 3 months to make decisions on players, and didn't have to wait for his head coach's input.

Brown was not handcuffed in the process. In fact, he had more lead time than most new GM types get to work with his own free agents.

And this is the lady in charge of ticket sales.

She should be fired.

Tickets are so expensive.

so when something is expensive some one should be fired? brilliant idea

what part of "he did negotiate with most the players that left" did you not get?

That lady negotiated poorly with me as well. I did not get tickets at the price that I wanted.

I had another guy I wanted to complain about as well, but I couldn't find pictures of the Brown's beer guy on the inter-tubes.

He is, after all, in charge of negotiating with the customers too.

to be honest.... i do not really care about your tickets...

Just trying to help continue the conspiracy theory.

conspiracy theory? what i said i fact. no conspiracy....

Same with me. That lady had as much to do with the cost of tickets as Sashi did with the players that we kept prior to this year.

oh so she set the price for the tickets like the cap guy sets the price he will pay for the position? oh you should have explained that better.

Deputy, I'm feelin your pain....

yea. pretty bad when you dont clarify your self right..... but now that i know the ticket lady and the cap guy are the same......

I don't think that's 100% accurate.

Brown was the primary negotiator for the team, and as part of that had to set the range he would go to with each player. Could he possibly be overruled by the coaching staff or GM, if they felt that a player was more important than Brown did? Sure. However, I would bet that Brown set the salary offers and counters for every player we signed, and those who entered free agency for the Browns during his time here.

shhhh.... common sense and fact have no place in pure football. should be saved for the smack shack.....

YT I believe your chronology as generally accurate. I would add that Paul Depodesta was hired on January 5. Where I think I differ from you is in this way. I think Brown had been negotiating in a conventional way with players up to and after the firing of Farmer. Before Depodesta's hiring, during the process of considering his candidacy Brown may have been asked to reduce the intensity and tenor of the negotiations with players. Once Depodesta and Jackson were hired and the new team building strategy was clearly formed and understood by all of the involved parties then a definite shift in the teams approach to the free agent players was implemented.

I think the fan base received some inkling of this shift at or about Feb. 23.

The two links below lead me to believe this is when it became evident that something was afoot. Although Berry has been an integral part of the player acquisition I don't think his function was crucial to formulating the new plan. Executing, yes, formulating, no.

Travis Benjamin

Tashaun Gibson

That's about six weeks from the time both Depodesta and Jackson came onboard. In my opinion this is the window in which the curent player acquisition strategy began. Before that Brown was a highly valued executive but a conventional negotiator doing his assigned duties.

As an aside. I usually read these types of discussions but avoid involvement in them because they can never be definitively settled. I only add this because I think it's fairly obvious that the context of Brown's role in the organization did change significantly at some recent point in time.

j/c

All of this argument seems to assume that the players who left did so because they weren't offered enough. As I, and others, have repeatedly said, that viewpoint doesn't consider the other factors which might have influenced each individual player's decision.

I don't know, I wasn't party to the negotiations, but I have the impression that Gibson, and especially Mack, wanted out. They didn't want to be Browns anymore, so the FO was at an automatic disadvantage in trying to negotiate with them. If true, offering them more money wasn't going to change their minds unless it was an unreasonable amount. Blaming the FO for that isn't fair since it was previous regimes who crated that bad blood.

Benjamin, in my opinion, wasn't worth what he wanted. Schwartz was the only one who I think they could have reasonably retained. As for who messed up the negotiations, the FO or his agent, I haven't a clue.

edited to add...
Guard Dawg's post above posted as I was writing this. I have since read his links, one of which appears to refute my impression of Gibson wanting out. The article implies that the Browns assumed he was too expensive and didn't really negotiate with him. If that is true, and he signed with JAX for what he did, then I will concede that was a mistake by the Browns.

pblack

There is no option for a cap negotiator not to sign someone. GM's decide who they want and cap guys try to get it done cheaply.

So which guy do you think Farmer wanted to sign last year that Sashi failed to sign?

I don't recall Farmer saying that they were trying to extend any of these guys last year. I don't think cap guys sign guys that the GM doesn't want to sign either. So where can you link to showing that Farmer wanted to sign one of the guys and Sashi couldn't get it done?

When you make up a fantasy and call it a fact expect people to call you out on it.

Simple question, who's job title said they were responsible for the 53 man roster last year?

I doubt Brown would lie to a local reporter on such matters. He wouldn't have made comment at all.

The fact he did speaks volumes to me.

lol wow we are doing this again? ok...Gibson stated he wanted to play else where, Benji wanted to play else where, Mack wanted out from what he himself has said...and Schwartz thought it best to test the waters and the rest is history...plain and simple they are no longer here. and the team has moved on from them as have I. I really do not care who failed to sign who, or who was in charge of the negotiations or who told who to sign who or any of it really anymore...it's a done deal and I for one am fairly happy with this years draft haul and the 14? picks we get next year...time for a change and change is coming from what I can tell

If he didn't lie to them, who would he lie to?

I am the eggman, they are the eggmen
I am the walrus, goo goo g' joob

Great lyrics. Did McCartney write the last line?

All I know is this; If you ever needed proof of how many drugs some of these guys were on, read the lyrics to the songs they wrote. (like that one)