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I may be missing something..

But the "53rd" man on the roster never plays anyways.. right?

The game day roster is only 45?

Do the 8 Non-GameDay roster guys make up the practice squad? I always thought that was separate..

My point being.. Keep 3 QBs in the 53, just don't have one of them (Kessler) active.. We have Pryor for emergency QB situations.. and heck we haven't even went full Any Given Sunday and lost two QBs in one game.. so..

Ouch. lol

jc

I've seen many people on this board and other places display high praise for Ogbah. Admittedly, I didn't see all of his games and don't know tons about the X's and O's of the game, but I simply did not like the Ogbah pick.

Can someone explain to me why he's been receiving such positive talk

It is separate. How often was Bowe not on the 45 last year? But he definitely was not eligible for the PS. The PS requirements are based on length of time in the league. Anyone can made inactive for a game.

Because the Browns drafted him. LOL

I brought him up before the draft, but I don't think anyone responded, which tells me he wasn't highly thought of on this board BEFORE the draft. Here is a link to tab's pre-draft post about OLBers and DEs. https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1078403/olb-3-4-des#Post1078403 You can see for yourself how people rated these guys.

I think Ogbah has some positives:

--Very strong
--Good bull rusher
--Has a nice rip move
--Played on both left and right side
--Extremely productive. Think he had 12.5 sacks, a bunch of hurries and TFL's
--Great character/hard worker

Concerns:
--Plays too high
--Teams ran right at him
--Got cut a lot
--Did not always use his hands effectively
--One dimensional and one speed pass rusher


Question Mark:
--How effectively can he cover? I don't know the answer to that.

Summary:
I think he'll start by being a situational pass rusher in sub-packages. That's not a bad thing. He will have to add more to his repertoire if he is to become anything more than that.

Thanks for the response Vers ... here are the two things I noticed and have heard, which are both very concerning for me

Your emergency QB does not need to be on the 45 man active game time roster.

And from what I've heard, Hue REALLY likes Kessler.. I think if the GM were to let him get taken, Hue would not be happy about it.

Not to worry, his is coming on an iPad Mini.

If we were a playoff team, then McCown would be important to us.

However, we will be lucky to win 4 games this season. Thus, if we were somehow to get a 4th round pick for McCown, (which I find to be extremely unlikely) then we jump all over that trade. It would make zero sense, from a football stand, and from an analytics stand, to do otherwise.

What does it gain this team to throw McCown out there in case of injury to RG3? Nothing. If RG3 were to get hurt, we could allow Kessler to develop on the field instead, and bring up another young QB to get additional practice reps.

I guess I don't see this team as one that will make the playoffs for at least another few years. As such, I see no need to hang on to old players, with only a year or 2 left. What purpose does that really serve?

As far as whether or not Shaw would be eligible, I see nothing in the rules that says he would not be. He has been on the practice squad for 2 seasons, and has 1 game of accrued NFL service. He should be eligible for the practice squad. If you see something different, please share it with me.

It would make far more sense in this case to then keep someone like Shaw as the #2 and let him take the hits and leave Kessler as the 3rd to continue to develop.


Actually, if you take this line of reasoning to its full extent, it then makes sense to just dump McCown and RG3 and roll with Shaw & Whomever as #1 & #2, then have Kessler as the #3. We're not going to win, anyway, so why bother with any of the expensive guys?

Veteran leadership. Who was in the locker room to help RGIII in Washington? Nobody. Who would be in the locker room to help RGIII and Kessler here if they got rid of McCown? Nobody. Yea, we have coaches, coaches only do so much. It really has nothing to do with a playoff run. As you say, we might be a few years away... maybe Kessler is the guy that will lead that and maybe he's not... but if you play him before he's ready, I assure you he won't be the guy.

yeah,... The chance of Kessler being cut are slim to none.

McCown can win games for us right now and perhaps RG3 will turn his career around affording us the luxury to basically red shirt Kessler this season.

So basically you are saying that the least talented qb on the roster has the best chance of making the team......

Kessler is definitely more talented than Shaw and probably Davis.

My bad...........I thought they were talking about keeping only two qbs and the other two were RGIII and McCown.

No! Now your just putting words into my mouth.

I never said that Kessler was the least talented QB on our roster. He is the least experienced.

He is also a 3rd draft pick. If the team didn't think that he could make our roster, then they never would have made the selection when they did.

Further I have seen not one iota of evidence that either Davis or Shaw has what it takes to be even an average starting QB in this League.

I think we are misunderstanding one another.

I believe the fact that Hue took Kessler much earlier than anyone thought he'd go, pretty much locks Kessler into a roster spot. I can't believe we'd risk losing him by putting him on the practice squad.

So there's 1 QB.

Hue also signed off on Griffin in FA. So there's 2 that Hue and this new FO brought in. I see them both as locks on this team.

I'm torn on McCown. IMO his experience and willingness to mentor is huge. He'd be mingling with Griffin & Kessler. That's a good thing.

We talk about both Griffin & McCown being injuries waiting to happen. I don't think Hue is going to play that scared card. But if Griffin goes down in game 3, I really don't think Hue wants Kessler thrown in there that early. Hence why I think Hue goes with Griffin/McCown/Kessler.

The best scenario is Griffin lasts all year and Kessler responds well to sitting on the sidelines soaking up every play and every word out of Hue/Pep and McCown's mouths.

If we're going to be injury bitten yet again at QB, IMO the best hope is Griffin and McCown last at least 6-8 games before having to go with Kessler.

This will be interesting for sure.

Playing to win is the key factor for the Browns. I hate hearing anyone say that it will take years for the Browns to build a competitive, winning team. The Browns had an Offense ranking of 30th at 17.4 points per game. The Browns had a defensive ranking of 29th at 27.0 points per game. Analytics suggest the Browns should have won 4 games and lost 12 last season. They won only 3. If you believe in the coaching staff, the drafted players desire to win, and the fact that the team can not get much worse either offensively or defensively, one has to conclude the team will score more points and let up less points. That statistically leads to more wins.

There are many factors about this up coming season that are intriguing. The Browns play the Eagles in week #1. Will it be the rookie QB Wentz? We also own their 1st round pick in the 2016 draft. We could help our own cause with that game. Not to mention the front office and coaching staff have much to prove against a new coach in Philadelphia.

The Browns have RG3 and we visit the Redskins this season. Another nice little intriguing story line.

The Jets with possibly Geno Smith or a rookie at QB? Who would not like to see our defense show itself against that team.

The Bills and that nightmare with the HC Ryan and his defense killing brother.

The Patriots at home. First week back for Brady. Will he be rusty? Will the Browns defense pass the Brady test?

The Dolphins, another dysfunctional team with a new HC. It is a nice challenge for the Browns.

Throw in the NY Giants and Cowboys for fun. The Giants with a new coach and an old team. The Cowboys, oooh to wish to play the Cowboys with Brandon Weeden as the QB. It could happen.

The Chargers are not a dominant team. They are on the decline. Add the Titans and that young inexperienced team with a new HC. Why not the Browns?

And the AFC North games. Every one of them a must watch game. The Steelers with their 30th Ranked pass defense. The Ravens who the Browns nearly beat twice with Pettine at HC and Oniell at DC. The Bengals games will be a must watch rivalry. Looking forward to the season

If we were doing everything we could to win, we would have done everything possible to maintain continuity, (front office, coaches, and players) while adding a few upper quality free agents, and maximizing the draft. We would have kept quality/useful players, like Schwartz, Benjamin, Bademosi, Gipson, Starks, Hartline, Dansby, and Whitner, and built upon them, instead of tearing the team down to nothing, and restarting from scratch.

This team is in total rebuild mode. Now they are not going to admit that, because they want the fans to keep buying tickets and merchandise, and they won't complain if they happen to win some games, but that is not their main concern right now, They are developing players, and building the team from the ground up, and will not allow veterans to get in the way of that process.

I have to laugh when you talk about the possibility of RG3 being injured, and having a QB "keeping the momentum going". What momentum do you expect this team to have? Seriously. How many games do you expect this team to win this coming season? If we win 5 games, Hue should be coach of the year. This team is going to struggle mightily.

I think back to the Cowboys, and their draft where they landed Aikman, Wisniewski. Daryl Johnston, Stepnoski, and Tolbert, a year after landing Irvin, Norton, and Hennings ....... and proceeded to go 1-15. That was a valuable, though painful, year. It gained experience for a lot of very young players.

Anyway, my point is that that particular Cowboys team did about as well as anyone could imagine them doing in adding top quality players, but it took time for all of the pieces to come together.

They added another Hall of Famer the next draft, in Emmit Smith, along with Jimmie Jones, and got to 7-9.

They then added Maryland, Alvin Harper, Eric Williams, Leon Lett, and Larry Brown ..... and made their big move.

At one point they had a Hall of Fame Head Coach, QB, WR, and RB, and won 7 games.

It takes time to rebuild a team from the ground up.

When a team turns around quickly, they typically have a foundation in place .....and they just need to add pieces to build on what they have. We have pieces, and need to build a foundation.

If this team wins 6 or more games, I will be ecstatic, and thrilled to say that I was wrong. I don't expect either to be the case. I accept that this team is going to be fairly awful, as players need time to develop, learn the schemes, and learn to play together. There will probably be about half of the players who start this season who will need to be replaced down the line.

One other thing I would just mention .....

Remember back to 1999? We started off the season with Ty Detmer. He was, by any definition, the better option if we were mainly concerned about winning games. However, after one blowout loss, we decided that the season was not about trying to win games, but rather about building for the future, and getting experience for young players. Now the team was not going to say "Hey, we're going to lose anyway, so we might as well lose with our young players", but that was the reality of that season. It is the reality of the upcoming season as well.

I will say that I hope that you are right, and that we somehow win a whole bunch of games this year ...... but I just don't see it.

If that's the case...please except my oppology bro.

I keep seeing this, over & over. Were only going to win 3-4 games this year. I know were young and have a new staff, but please. I look at our first 4 games and don't see a loss anywhere. All those teams have the same issues we have or worse. There's no reason we can't start off on a roll.

I think you can do everything in your power to rebuild in the best way possible in preparation for the future.

At the same time, you can do everything in your power to win as much as you can with what you've got.

Huh? Maybe the Eagles, but I don't see what you're talking about with the Ravens, Dolphins, or Washington.

We are going to be terrible. We have a new head coach (and staff), a QB that hasn't played well in three years, and a ton of new starters/rookies. It's going to be a very rough year.

I think the Ravens are going down hill fast. Fin's and Redskins are always in the crapper

Remember we nearly beat the Ravens twice last season and we only won 3 games. The Ravens are in the same boat as the Browns. The biggest difference is that the Browns are searching for a QB and the Ravens mistakenly think they have one.

I will count out the Ravens when I see multiple seasons of suck in a row. They were very injured last year. (Also, we lost to them when Matt Schaub was the starting QB. Oof.)

The Joe Flacco contract is already coming back to haunt them though.

Translation: We lost to them twice, and we have less talent & veterans now than we had last year.

I agree, but disagree. I think that the coaches will do all they can to win with players who will be here when the team turns the corner. I do not believe that they will sacrifice player development for wins, though.

We have eliminated much of the veteran leadership on the team, and cast off many of our better players. We have chosen to go with youth at many positions by eliminating so much of the veteran presence on this team.

Right now, we have 10 players age 28 or older on this roster. Of these, some may not be here when the season starts. (Tramon Williams, Josh McCown, Des Bryant, Andrew Hawkins, Paul Kruger, and Marlon Moore) Of these players, I would venture a guess that half, or more, will be gone when the final roster is set.

The ones I did not mention are Joe Thomas, Andy Lee, John Greco, and Gary Barnidge, all of whom I give a solid chance of making the team, unless they are traded.

So, I believe that this team could well be a 27 and under club by the time all is said and done, with maybe only 5 or 6 players outside of that age range.

This team will be hugely inexperienced. We have only 12 players with 6 or more years of experience right now. As noted, I believe that many of those will be gone when the season opens. This team will be made up, predominantly, of players with 4 years or fewer NFL experience. That is not what a team trying to win right away does.

I really want people to look at this roster. Right now, before we cut another player, we have only 27 players who have played more than 2 seasons. At least half of this team will be made up of players who have played 2 seasons in the NFL, or less. (listed as 3rd year players and below on the roster) At least. I believe that it will be more than that number.


This team is going to be incredibly young. That is the choice and direction the powers that be have chosen. Once they decided not to resign their own free agents, I cannot say that I disagree with this choice, but let's not pretend that they are going all in to win games this year. Player development is the order of the day this year. They will speak of wanting to win every game, but their actions will disprove their words. This year is about building for the future.

I think I misinterpreted your comments as well. My apologies.

We split with them. And were a (not blocked) FG away from sweeping them..

I broke down the age of the team, and it has to be the youngest in the NFL. You mention certain veteran players, and use the fact that they are still here as evidence of something, but just because they are here following OTAs does not mean that they will be here following training camp. It also does not mean that we are not in complete rebuild mode.

Anyway, some of your specific points:



We haven't made it to training camp yet. Don't discount the possibility of something happening down the road. Further, maybe the front office feels that Joe can play for 4-5 more years at a high level of play, and so they will hold on to him. Just because we keep a couple of older players does not mean that we are not in total rebuild mode. Also, just because we have kept a few older players to this point, before training camp has even begun, does not mean that they will still be here when the season begins.



That's not what I said. What I said was that they did about as well as could be expected in adding quality players. (to their roster) Their drafts were magnificent.

In closing, all I can say is this: I hope you are right, and we somehow turn out a winner this season. I don't see it happening, but I would be thrilled to be wrong.

The fact is you make some very valid points. People can scoff and call it negativity all they like.

We are obviously in rebuild mode. It will take three years of very good drafting as well as key FA signings before we are a playoff team at the very least. As of now, we don't have an answer at QB. Actually, more questions than answers at the position.

Our drafts will have to be great and player development will have to be second to none for this to happen. People can label that, degrade that opinion by just being stubborn and single minded all they wish.

The fact is, it needed to be done. Since we still haven't actually committed to a long term QB, those we let go will not be a factor by the time we are ready to make a run. If we actually commit to the QB position for real next year, we will probably be three years away from a shot at the big time. With where we are now, all our ducks will have to fall into a row for this to all unfold.

That's not a pity party, that's reality.

I am curious as to what NFL teams people can think of who have stripped down to the bare bones, and basically rebooted the team.

The Browns have 3 players on the team from draft classes prior to 2012. (Joe Thomas, Joe Haden, John Hughes)

They have 2 players from the 2013 draft, (Mingo and Bryant, who is suspended) and 4 from 2014.

The drafts that should have been our foundation ..... and the players on whom the team should be built are missing. We have a few ..... but not enough.

Now I do think that we have a very promising draft from last year, but how those players play out remains to be seen. However, we have a lot of guys who should be, at the very least, quality depth. Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Duke, Xavier Cooper, Ibraheim Campbell, Gaines, Malcolm Johnson, and Telfer all have some ability, and could potentially start to fill in the foundational blocks of the team. They are extremely young for that role, though.

I used the Cowboys as an example, because it was the best example I could think of where a team completely tore their roster down, and rebuilt it quickly. They did so by virtue of drafting 3 Hall of Fame players in (IIRC) back to back to back drafts, in Irvin, Aikman, and Emmitt Smith. That kind of draft acumen is a huge ask for any front office, but it is what jump started the Cowboys turn-around.

Anyway, what other teams have stripped down to such a young roster, and have rebounded into a winner within a year, or 2, or 3? I am curious as to what teams people can offer as examples?

It took the Bengals many drafts in a row to rebuild their team. They are probably one of the better example of the path we are now on, even though they never hit rock bottom like we did. The Titans are probably on the same path we are on, and they have found their franchise QB. Their rebuild is in year 2, and has been short on wins thus far. The Raiders took the same path we have, and have gone through 4 years of struggles, with some solid drafts in the past few, and yet are only now sniffing a winning record. The Rams took a similar tact, and rebuilt their team through the draft, yet have not yet been able to break through to above .500. The Seahawks did a masterful job of working the draft, and adding top flight players to their roster, yet it took them 3 full off-seasons before they finally broke through. (and they never hit rock bottom like we did)

Anyway, I am curious to hear what examples people can give of teams getting rid of almost all veterans, and then rebounding within a season or 2.

It took the Bengals many drafts in a row to rebuild their team. They are probably one of the better example of the path we are now on, even though they never hit rock bottom like we did.

From 1991 - 2002 the Bengals had records of 2 - 14 once, 3 - 13 four times, a record of 4 - 12 twice, 5 - 11 once, 6 - 10 once, 7 - 11 twice and 8 - 8 once. That is not counting a backslide 4 - 11 - 1 in 2008 and 4 - 12 in 2010. I would say that the Bengals hit rock bottom every bit as badly as the Browns have, perhaps even worse considering they have been in the NFL full time since before the AFL/NFL merger, where the Browns, as we know them today, have only existed since 1999.