DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Why Some Whites are Flocking Towards Trump

Sounds like he'll be fine.

I grew up in Appalachia.. not nearly as bad as this guy did but this was going on in and around the town I grew up in.

It amazes me how similar the circumstances are between this group and inner city blacks.. it also amazes me how they look at their past and their present, they look at their futures.. all of which are remarkably similar... and they reach TOTALLY different political decisions on it.

Inner city blacks have been voting for liberal democrats for as long as I can remember... rural poor whites have been voting for conservatives (even though many called themselves democrats they seldom voted that way) for as long as I can remember... neither group has seen anything but decline in their standard of living for decades... yet both remain true to their party... true to the rhetoric they are fed...

The single biggest difference, I would say, between this group and the inner city blacks... inner city blacks seem to have more trust in politicians than this group. This group voted in large numbers for Ross Perot and they are throwing a lot of their support behind Trump.. both billionaires, but neither politicians. In Appalachia, if you need your tractor fixed and you can't do it yourself, you hire somebody who fixes tractors... if you need your economy fixed, you vote for a successful business person to put your trust in, not a bunch of career lawyer/politicians.

God help us if these rural poor and inner city poor ever find common ground and begin to realize how much power they could have if they were on the same page.... which is why I believe you see all of the "social issue" stuff... that's what keeps them divided, even though the divide is largely artificial. I don't think either group would care who uses which bathroom (or outhouse ) if they were having some level of economic prosperity.

It's way overdue that poor blacks, and poor whites join forces and force a change. Screw Wall Street, screw big business, and screw politicians. They don't represent the majority of Americans.

Sadly, my dad was saying the same thing in the 1970's.

Yet the rhetoric from both sides of the political aisle is heard and believed by many of the poor. Politics works hard at keeping the poor divided. Most politicians would do anything to deny it accept for Trump.

He actually admitted he loved the uneducated.

They have been doing their best to divide the rich from the poor in both parties since I can remember. It's all a game to them, it has nothing to do with 80 percent of us stuck in the middle

They don't just divide rich/poor - they divide everywhere they can. Their entire goal and strategy is to manufacture platforms that will divide us, and each side tries to split us up into camps that favor themselves.

Want the female vote? Start pointing out that Viagra is covered by some heath insurance providers and then start telling folks that birth control should be free - the campaign on delivering that.

Want the poor vote? Increase social programs... or convince them that the other side wants to take what handouts they already get.

Want the Bible Belt's vote? Reference God and give lip service to being against abortion.



The person that wins is simply the person that does the best job at convincing the most people of the lies they want to be told.... and all along, it is the parties campaign strategists that are deciding which lies we will decide with. Beginning years before the campaign, they are creating faux outrage over things, seeing what plays and what doesn't - testing the waters so that come election time they will have (they hope) crafted a platform of manufactured issues that should garner them the votes they want.

AMEN bro they try to seek, and destroy all of us. IF (damn I need bigger capitol letters. ) We would all stick together as regular folks we could run them out of our country in a heart beat.

Who is them?

Awesome! You, DC, GM, and Pit are hitting on what I thought was important from this article. Great points!!!

Now, we have to figure out how to overcome that. I'll let others talk. I wanna hear some of your ideas.

I do just want to say one thing. I brought up education earlier and there were several conversations about education. When I talk about education, I am not just talking about being book smart or pursing degrees. I am talking about how people can be educated --and educate themselves--in a multitude of ways. arch mentioned "work ethic." I firmly believe that the value of it can be "taught." I don't mean this in a bragging way, but I've done it w/kids for years. Gosh, I want to go on and on, because all of this can be so beautiful.

But, I will stop and I would love to hear from some of you guys as to how we overcome the points you mentioned. DC said something earlier about "God forbid" if poor whites and blacks unite........something like that. I would choose the word "Rejoice" in place of "God forbid."

Destroy the bourgeois class and the bureaucrats next.

You may find this unfathomable, but I believe it would take a violent revolution to overcome the policy of social control by the elite. We're talking about stopping the filthy, greedy rich from continuing their filthy, greedy, rich ways. No amount of dialog will convince them to be kinder to mankind. They just don't think that way. They lip service it, but to them they deserve to own all the money and have all the power. Their methods of controlling the population as a means to their ends is the only way they can think. It' the only thing that makes sense to them. Otherwise, things wouldn't be the way they are now.

That may sound radical to you. But from the moment our government gave over the power to control money to the banks we've been on this path. Money=Debt, Debt=Money. They've created a way to make the citizenry a slave to the debt that's created and we're all paying for it with stagnant income growth, a crumbling infrastructure, inadequate schools, lack of gainful employment opportunities, an increasing dependence on entitlements and an ever widening wealth gap. And it doesn't stop there. Possibly the worst of it is that there is no way out that the banks and corporations will agree to because it would mean sacrifices from them. It's all set up so that the sacrifices are made by the middle class and the poor. The elite is not about to give up their golden goose without a fight. A good example is teaching a toddler to share. It can easily become a fight to convince them. It's human nature.

It's not just an American problem. It's global. It's human nature to lust after riches and power. At any moment at any point in history there is someone fighting for power. It's happening now and it has always happened.

We can talk among ourselves to create answers, but our solutions come from our method of thinking about mankind which includes love, goodwill and caring about all people. The banks, the elite and corporations have no such scruples. They don't care who they hurt just so they get theirs. To them we are not much more than animals grown for slaughter, for profit.

Politicians are no different. In fact, they are driving force behind the assistance to the banks and elite. Again, they are looking out for themselves. They'll sell us out in a heartbeat to increase and preserve their own stash. Worst of all, they do it right in front of our noses in plain sight knowing there's nothing we can do about it but complain and try to strike up a dialog to which they offer up lip service and lies. How many times have we watched them cut spending on things that benefit the people while at the same time voting themselves a pay increase? We see it, we talk about it, we complain but it goes on and on and on.

I'm not suggesting we all take up arms and route out the elite and the politico but you see it in other countries when the populace become desperate enough. It happens every day. I believe that's the only way to overcome.

In the meantime, before we get desperate to that point, we can talk about how to huddle up and make the best of things. But no amount of talking among ourselves, or even voicing our opinions to those running our lives, is going to do anything to improve our situation.

Excellent post ddubia...enjoyed reading it!

Man, I had a long, long reply typed out..........but, it isn't time.

A considered thesis?

I just want to hear the opinions of others on this topic for now.

I agree with pretty much all that you said.. but to address this point right here...

We are no different than them, we just fight on a smaller scale. There are folks out there right now on our level stabbing a co-worker in the back for a promotion, defrauding the welfare system, driving right past a motorist in need because we are late for a meeting or because we just don't care. There are a TON of people who don't give a damn about goodwill and/or caring for other people and you see it every day.

Human nature is human nature whether you have 2 nickles or 2 billion dollars.. it doesn't matter. Some people get it and some people don't. The people at the top come and go but human nature never changes.

"We" left England, say what you want about religion, it had it's place in what happened but it was, by and large, to get away from an oppressive government.. so we came over here and had a nice short run and ended up moving closer and closer to our own oppressive government. The middle east has violent revolutions all the time with evil dictators deposed and new folks establishing themselves in power and those folks become the new oppressors... human nature never changes.

We could take any 20 people off this board and give them the power and the money that the top 20 of the elite have and for a while, they would remember what it was like to be poor to middle class and things would be better... then slowly they would start to get comfortable in their new station in life, they would start to forget and some of them would start to become that which we are railing against today. They would begin to feel their new found power and status being challenged and they would begin to protect it at the expense of the very people they used to be.

Heck, on a smaller scale look at sports, since this is a sports message board... take a kid who has never really had much but was blessed with tremendous God-given physical talent and a work ethic to develop that talent.. One day around age 20-21 he suddenly goes from lower class to a millionaire and on draft day he is humble and thanking God and his mom and his high school coaches and they cry about their good fortune and they say they are in it for the love of the game and the fans.. they promise to be a loyal and devoted team player, true to the team that drafted them and they make promises like bringing championships. Fast forward 4 years, the contract is up and suddenly $10 million a year (for a guy who used to be happy if he had $100 in his pocket) isn't enough to keep them happy because they can get $12 million a year somewhere else.. no longer humble, now it's about them, what they deserve, what they have earned.... loyalty is gone.. while they continue to pay lip service to all of those things they said on draft day..

Don't get me wrong, there are good guys out there, Tim Duncan like guys who don't act like that.... but the majority do and we applaud them for it. You hear it all the time on sports radio, the broadcasters and "experts" saying things like, "You can't blame a guy for wanting to get paid."...

I guess, either we can or we can't... but we seem painfully inconsistent in how we approach it.

Jc

If we're just gonna chalk everything up to human nature, then why complain? What's the point?

If y'all honestly think this is the way it has to be and nothing other changes, please move the hell out of the way and let people who want to make this world better work.

Got no time for dinosaurs.

I stand corrected on that point. You are absolutely right and you said it very well.

Not saying things can't change or improve, just pointing out that you are fighting against thousands of years of human history.

And things change at the human level, voluntarily... not by government fiat.


There is nobody in your way. Go try to make change. I'm sure if you explain it just the right way that the elite power brokers around the world will just voluntarily step aside and start giving their stuff away.


The young never do... that's why they will repeat most of the mistakes the dinosaurs made when they were young.

Honest question: To whom would you complain that would set aside their own desires and sacrifice themselves to our favor?

As I stated above, we can huddle together to help protect each other from the rain, but still, a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Getting back to the thread topic I'll give Trump credit for one thing.

I'm 64 years old and have only voted once for President and that was for Ross Perot. Part of the reason I don't vote is I feel an uninformed vote can do more harm than good and I've had a hard time over the years getting real, honest information.

I suspect a lot of voters get their information through the TV ads they see while watching Game Of Thrones. But it doesn't get any better if one reads and studies. The internet has an excessive amount of conflicting information on the issues, the parties and the candidates. The National Conventions are like variety shows. They spend four days saying the same things in many different ways by many different people hoping at least one of those ways will make sense to each individual voter. The candidates themselves give lip service and lies to the voting public. We can't get a straight story from any of them nor from the media. It's always been like this. It's why I've always stayed out of it.

Enter Trump.

He came out of the gate saying the same things we all talk about among ourselves, namely that politicians are liars, the system is rigged and that they manage to make minor issues into major distractions which allows them to skate around the real issues.

And I'm not saying he has a solution for any of it. But here we have a guy who stands up and calls a spade a spade and neither sixteen experienced political opponents nor the elite of their own party could stop him no matter how they tried to degrade him refusing to back him up and yet, this guy is the nominee of the Republican Party running for President against the party's will.

All I'm saying is he got my attention, not that I think he should be President. All I'm saying is he got me interested to see how all this shakes out for the future of our political system now that their security blanket of lies and deception has been thrown back exposing them.

Owing to the success Trump has had so far will it be enough to send a message to the political system that Americians are tired of the status quo and want changes? Will they change the system knowing people want that? I dunno. But Trump has me paying attention to it for the second time in my life. Perot did the same thing back in 1996, but he wasn't tough enough to stand up to the system. I think Trump is proving he is, so regardless if he wins the election I think his appearance will cause some changes.

I'll pay attention from now on to see what happens. If anything.

I'm watching this as much out of curiosity myself and I'm interested to see how Trump does from here on out and I'm interested to see what the aftermath is, if any changes are made.

My fear is that instead of embracing the positives of Trump that have captured the attention of so many people and both parties working to do a little more of that... that both parties will retreat and do everything in their power to make sure it never happens again... And we will be back to getting boring, status quo, type candidates...

J/C Trump has no positives to embrace.

In my opinion, and in the opinion of about 40% of the voters, he does...

And ignoring that, as you have, is exactly what I expect both major parties to do when this is over..... unless he wins.

God. The least thing we need in politics is to remember Donald Trump or any of his words.

j/c:

Can we go back to whether or not we can affect change and drop the pros and cons of Trump? There are a lot of threads about Trump. How can we change a broken system?

by actually following the constitution.

that would a fabulous start.

Destroy the class system and build a civilization based on collaboration instead of competition. Get rid of the monetary system, because no one can be free without economic freedom as well.

By electing an outsider who will see what is going on in government with clear eyes.

Can you expound on this idea? Are you saying you don't want people to be free? Or that eliminating the ability to accumulate wealth relative to others is somehow restricting freedom? I don't understand this.

i get what you're saying, bur you can't believe that Trump is calling people out when he himself is lying.

just because he says things like a "straight shooter", as some people like to say, means what?

the things he says are easy to understand. which means its just easier to say it's stupid.

you know, Haus made me calm down a bit and realize that the comments about Trump being like Hitler were out of line.

but then, out of nowhere, comes my German wife. a while ago, she goes "reggie, did you see the news?"

"nah, what happened"

"trump wants muslims to be on a register"

"ok?"

"ok? did you pay attention in history class? thats the same thing Hitler did to the jews"

oooooooooooooooh.

When Germans are comparing this guy to Hitler, you might wanna listen to it.

I want people to be free. Capitalism does not allow for freedom though. Debt is inherently restricting.

I honestly don't see how people cannot see the links between Donald Trump and fascism. The parallels are so clear. Honestly, if DT is president and there's a Muslim terrorist attack, it could easily transform into putting Muslims into internment camps, if not full blown concentration camps.

Your view on this and other things American are more frightening than anything.

How? What has he said that is frightening?

Does the truth scare you?

Yes, it's very frightening to think we could elect Adolf Hitler to command the world's largest army.

There are just as many simple ways to connect Hillary and the democrats to fascism.. you are just thinking of fascism as it relates to the military..

No I'm not. You're getting neoliberalism confused with fascism, which explains why you don't understand how Donald is literally a fascist.