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I dont think its a stroke of genius to overpay someone bc u are desperate either.

Give these guys (whoever is named starter) time to gel, and they'll get better with time.

We did not let him walk, he tried to leave before, and wanted to leave this time. It was him not the team

It is also assuming that both Scwwartz and Mack have no role in their not being here.

Wow .. So u guys are saying it's just a coincidence? .. Same with Gipson ... *LOL* ..

OK ..

And did we not make Schwartz and Gipson offers? ..

And overpaying .. Really? .. Do me a favor and go get me a list of FA's that have been UNDERPAID on the market .. That'll be a short short short list ..

Overpaying for ANY FA is a given ...

Ummm .. Also kinda curious as to how one can over pay when we have MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS JUST SITTING THERE doing nothing but EXPIRING before we spend it ..

U guys can sprin it any way u want ... If it looks like a duck .. Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..

But hey .. We all need hope ... Some folks are just a little slower coming to reality than others ..

We've been down this road before. Nobody listens.

The reality is that most of these guys will be screaming to fire everyone in two years.

I believe we made offers and neither one wanted to sign. Especially Mack....he wanted to leave a few years ago.

And if he didn't, drafting his replacement while he was on the team made him want to leave.

lol. if any player wants to leave bc we drafted his position.. I dont want him anyway!!

Yeah, I'm sure Mack left because he was scared of Erving taking his job.

he did. and he was terrified of Erving...where did that link go...

I said......."of taking his job," rather than "playing next to him." LOL

That would make me want to leave. It's a bit insulting. Especially when the team has more pressing needs.

I bet Mack is beyond happy to be out of this mess. I think Quinn is going to be a short lived HC, but no one rivals the dysfunction of the Browns. No. One.

I think Quinn is going to be a very good coach.

They gotta improve the D and the OL. And most won't agree w/this, but I think Matt Ryan is more Matty Choke than Matty Ice.

he is on that we can agree...he will struggle again this year.

Allow me to lend you a comma.


,


It helps w/the interpretation.

thank you ....typing fast lol...six kids here today all under seven.

LOL............that'll scare the "comma" out of anyone.

Dan Labbe ‏ @ dan_labbe 5m 5 minutes ago

Austin Pasztor is the frontrunner to start at right tackle, not that you would know it from talking to him: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/08/austin_pasztor_cleveland_brown.html

Pasztor is the frontrunner to start. WOndering if he'd be a better RG than RT, but we have little option probably

He might be, but Greco is a darn good RG. We have an opening at RT, so that's where Pazstur is competing.

I thought he played well enough last year at guard. I'm interested to see what he does at RT. Especially, if we want to run more. I am rather upset that Coleman and Drango didn't beat them out. I understand Shon is coming off of surgery, but dang. You'd expect better from the presumed future starting LT.

2 years If you would have said 3 months I would have been able to agree with you.

I agree that Greco is a good RG but I'm not sure this scheme is the best fit for him. Last year I felt like he struggled more than in 2014 under Shanahan and the zone blocking scheme. I think that scheme was far better suited for him. That doesn't mean he can't be effective, just not as impactful in the way he was in 2014.

We'll see.

This is an article that fits with my line of thinking. I'm not saying this writer or myself is correct ...just that we view the player in the same way. And to be fair, I've disagreed with this writer on many other issues and the title of the article is a bit over-the-top. Also, I've not followed interviews or videos from as much has I have in the past about this line or coaching so far to know if gap scheme is what we're doing. I've heard it early on when Hue was hired and know Flip used it last year.
__________

Cleveland Browns: John Greco’s Future in Flux

With the hire of Hue Jackson as Cleveland Browns head coach, there are going to be some major philosophical changes in how the team plays.

Some of those changes are not apparent yet, but everything suggests a substantial emphasis on gap scheme blocking. That being the case, the future of John Greco in a Cleveland Browns uniform appears doubtful.

Two years ago, Greco had his best season as a Brown under Kyle Shanahan as offensive coordinator. Shanahan’s zone scheme was a perfect fit for the skills that Greco brought to the table and the Browns excelled in the running game until Alex Mack suffered a broken fibula. Greco had a legitimately great year.

This past year, when John DeFilippo introduced more gap scheme elements to the offense, Greco was not as effective. Certainly, Greco was adequate for the task, but it was clear he was somewhat miscast for the role. Adequate, sure, but not all that good.

Zone scheme blocking is more reliant on guys who can win with body position, athleticism and sealing off angles whereas gap scheme blocking is more about brute force and being able to hold up in tighter quarters.

Jackson’s history has been a guy who loves to use gap scheme blocking and bully opponents up front. Greco is not going to embarrass himself, but it is difficult to imagine he will excel.

Jackson could see Greco’s versatility and value as a backup and keep him on the roster. Greco can legitimately play all 3 interior line spots and as shown in 2014, that is important.

The cost is nothing. When Greco signed his contract extension through 2017, his contract was frontloaded and in each of 2016 and 2017 Greco makes under $1 million per year. Financially speaking, Greco is a worthwhile commodity.

The Browns are so good with the cap, however, the money may not mean nearly as much as the roster spot does. It is increasingly apparent that NFL teams cannot get enough talented offensive lineman bodies on their roster and some teams, smartly, hoard them.

The Browns have a number of needs to address and they have to pick their spots on in some respects. If they opt to attack the trenches, they may well release Greco to add youth to develop on the offensive line.

If they want to attack some of the other issues on the team, which could include quarterback, running back, wide receiver, tight end, linebacker, and safety, Greco might be a Godsend and someone that Jackson and the Browns are happy they can rely on to take up a roster spot.

From Greco’s point of view, he might be ready to leave Cleveland. As much as he is a hometown guy, being from Ravenna, attending Boardman High School in Youngstown, going to the University of Toledo, and now playing for the Browns, it makes financial sense for him to want out of his contract.

With two years and less than a million in each year of his contract and being 30 now, he might have one chance at a nice contract before the end of his career. For teams that run more of a zone scheme running game, which could include the Atlanta Falcons (where Kyle Shanahan is now); Greco could warrant a lucrative short term contract, where he would make more money than he did in his entire career in Cleveland.

Greco has been a valuable [censored] on the Browns offense. Combining that with Alex Mack’s looming decision on his own contract, it is not a small issue. This is all assuming the Browns aren’t stupid enough to let Mitchell Schwartz get away in free agency.

Obviously, the Browns drafted Cameron Erving last year and they have to hope he can start at center if Mack opts to go elsewhere. It would go a long way in helping Erving in that transition if he has Joel Bitonio flanking his left but also has a talented player on his right.

The Browns did add Austin Pasztor last year and he is more suited to gap scheme blocking. After both Bitonio and Greco ended up on injured reserve, Pasztor did a nice job at left guard as a fill in starter. Certainly not to the level of Bitonio, but he was effective as a puller, acting as the lead blocker, pulling to the right on power calls, which sprung Isaiah Crowell and Duke Johnson to a few big runs at the end of last year. Pasztor might be more suited to be a backup, but he gives them another option at right guard.

http://nflspinzone.com/2016/01/17/cleveland-browns-john-grecos-future-flux/

So...?

I'm not sure how that changes someone's opinion of a player heading into this season. Zero reg. season games have been played between then and now.

The purpose for posting that article was to reference a similar viewpoint I had with the writer regarding John Greco playing in a zone scheme as opposed to a gap scheme. Yes, there were other components in the article (including available guards in the 2016 draft) but I assumed most posters would look to the beginning of the article discussing Greco in relation to my post than the secondary points towards the end in the article.

Yes, the writer hoped Schwartz would be retained. Yes, he suggested Pacztor as an option at RT. All of that is there too.

Furthermore, the article doesn't even say he is bad. It just discusses the comparison between the two schemes, his cost effectiveness since most of his money was paid upfront, yet speculates (which is a point I disagree with) about his longevity in Cleveland.

I don't think Greco should go anywhere and do want him as the starting RG (which is perhaps a point I should have clarified earlier). It's just about what Greco is best at and if it will effect him at all in 2016. An opinion piece...nothing more.

I think Greco is one of--if not thee--most underrated players on the team. I think he is a fine technician that does his job very well....week--in and week--out.

A few weeks ago, ed posted PFF's grade for each of the Brown's offensive starters. Greco had the highest grade other than Joe Thomas. Again, I think he is an underappreciated guy.

I'd agree. He's certainly not the problem. Possibly the best thing to come from Pat Shurmur, lol.


I was just thinking of how I wish a guy like Hank Fraley would open up for us to grab. That worked out for us like no other when the Eagles let him go (I think we got him for a 7th?)

Last year, Greco did his job pretty well. This season remains to be seen. I think he is just knocking the rust off, but I wasn't impressed against the Packers with him. Greco's not the most physically talented O-Lineman, so hopefully his injuries don't linger.

I think... this oline going to get RGIII killed.

Maybe, but let's give them more than one live game before we panic

Agreed. We are in the preseason. That is what this time is for. Fixing the kinks and mistakes and growing together as a unit in preparation to the season

Isn't discussing football the purpose of a football message board?

You. Just. Blew. My. Mind.

OH NO, I said something that might be mistaken as positive and the board police attack... Geesh.

I think I WAS discussing football...

Being unpowered and manhandled isn't exactly a "kink" that can get worked out. There will definitely be improvement throughout the remainder of the preseason, but the line is something I'm definitely having to panic over.