DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA Offseason continued II

By the way, I'd like to congratulate Delly on winning the US Open yesterday. Come on, the dude wins a NBA title, gets a big contract to be the starting PG for the Milwaukee Bucks and then jumps sports to win a tennis major championship? Talk about a successful year. He's the Bo Jackson of this generation, but with rings.

haha

I want to ask my fellow Cleveland fans a question, assume the absolute worst and we never won a title with Lebron as a player. Do you think you'd ever see a title in your lifetime? I've gotta be honest, if Lebron didn't win us one I don't think I'd ever see a title in my lifetime.

yep, I agree. I'm pretty firm in believing that the Browns will never win in my lifetime (and I'm 30)

Indians? Maybe

Nope. If we lose back-to-back to the Warriors and assume they still add Durant for the three-peat, I'd probably leave if I was Lebron. No way the Cavs rebound from that for a decade or more.

I think a few other guys here said that once one team in Cleveland won it all, the floodgates would open and we'd accumulate 2-3 more in the next 5-10 years. I believe that. The curse is broken, there's nothing holding us back anymore. Had the Cavs not won, the curse lives and becomes stronger and darker.

An NFL team can go from crap to contending in one draft. If we can add a decent QB, who knows. And that might coincide with Ben retiring and Flacco being old. It could become a Bengals and Browns division.

As for the Indians, who knows. We might be a few weeks away from seeing another parade. I personally don't think we can get past the Big Papi Red Sox retirement run at another ring. That offense, dang. They'll rip us up.

I have predicted a Cubs and Red Sox World Series for a while now. I'm sticking to it. (Winner being the Sox - sorry Cubs fans)

Heard Shump won't stand for the National Anthem. Guy is having a great off-season.

JR LOL I nam not going to post the Twitter battle, but it was kinda funny.

Here's how Darrelle Revis responded to being called out by J.R. Smith on Twitter - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-...ith-on-twitter/

Well, there's a rule in the NBA that he HAS to. I don't know what the punishment is, but I'm sure the NBA will be prepared.

I think Silver goes to the players union and offers them to all kneel opening night to make one big elaborate statement and then stand from there on out. We'll see...

Speaking of Shump, I saw a Facebook rumor that we're talking with the Warriors for a Iggy and Shump swap, straight up. I don't believe that at all. We'd win large.

Yeah, you and I mentioned the punishment for Chris Jackson for Denver, although he changed his name to some Muslim name by then. LOL........not being biased........I just can't remember the damn name.

I wonder if they have changed the rule since then?

Oh..............and didn't Iggy sign w/Denver or somebody like that?

Mamoud Abul Raoof <- pre-Google search

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf <- post-Google search, dang I was kinda close.

I'm pretty sure Iggy has one year left on his deal. I don't understand the trades intent. They'll have money coming off the books when he leaves, which they need. Unless they'll still be over the cap and would be stuck replacing his contract with a MLE. Would Shump fit in there?

I guess it doesn't matter. I don't see it happening.

We've seen what great pitching can do against great offenses.

Impressive.

Okay...........I'm confused. Is Iggy w/GS or Denver? I thought he went to Denver?

No. He's still in GS.

Here ya go...

http://www.chattsportsnet.com/sport-toda...shumpert/12824/

It is hard to imagine a trade between archrivals Golden State Warriors and Cleveland Cavaliers. But talks are going about an Andre Iguodala and Iman Shumpert straight swap.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are dead-set on securing a back-to-back championship next season. They have severed ties with Matthew Dellavedova and Timofey Mozgov but the core of the team remains intact. However, they now must decide who will be traded or kept in the shooting guard/small forward position.

Iman Shumpert was charged with DUI last month while JR Smith still has not signed back yet. Smith wants more money but the Cavs do not want to overpay since there is a lack of interest from other teams to snatch the streaky shooter.

According to Parent Herald, if Cleveland decides Smith is not worth the money, they should get another Smith to replace him. High-flying forward Josh Smith still has no team yet, and his addition to Cavs could give rest to Kevin Love or LeBron James. Smith’s versatility can be a big factor against Golden State Warriors who plan to use Kevin Durant in power forward spot.

If Smith’s concern could be solved by another Smith acquisition, the Iman Shumpert dilemma, on the other hand, could be solved by a trade with their archrivals.

Per YIBADA, Andre Iguodala is already 32 years old and is in the final year of his contract with the Warriors. Should Golden State decide to let him go to make their roster younger, they could ask for Iman Shumpert from the Cavaliers.

Both players have similar skills. They could score and defend well, although Iguodala is more prolific offensively. Shumpert is younger and more defensive minded but the Warriors do not need him to contribute on offense anymore since they already have the Splash Brothers plus Kevin Durant.

If this trade pushes through, both teams are set to benefit from the deal. However, it remains to be seen if both parties are willing to help each other improve their roster.

Thanks for the education.

Damn...........was I freaking dreaming when I heard Iggy was going to Denver or was it another guy?

Embarrassing.

Really nothing new here, except some quotes from JR.

J.R. Smith on when he will re-sign with Cavs: 'Soon, I hope' - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/j-r-smith-on-when-he-will-re-sign-with-cavs-soon-i-hope/

With just a few weeks away from the start of the regular season, the Cleveland Cavaliers are essentially returning the same roster that won the championship in June. LeBron James is coming back and Richard Jefferson decided not to retire and re-signed. However, the one key player that is still unsigned is J.R. Smith.

The Cavs want Smith back and he wants to return as well, yet no deal has been reached between the two sides. Despite this, Smith remains optimistic and believes he we will be re-signing in Cleveland soon.

From Smith's interview with Complex:

Smith, believe it or not, is still a free agent with Cleveland's training camp just weeks away on Sept. 27. He has no idea when he'll sign with the Cavaliers--"Soon, I hope," he says. Cleveland is realistically the only team Smith can sign with for the money he's looking for. So what's the hold up?

"Well, obviously we're not where we want to be at from a personal standpoint," says Smith. "But it's more than just numbers. I don't want to feel like I'm taking advantage of the Cavs for everything they've done for me, and I don't want them to feel like I'm taking advantage of them. It's more of a mutual respect thing."
...
"Yes and no. It depends on how you look at it," says Smith. "Financially, you can always go somewhere else. Team morale-wise, there are a few teams that I could see working. There are guys I would like to play with, guys I have played with. Being able to live in that city or a particular place, school systems, kids, family life--[with] free agency, everything comes into play. Before, I could just sit there and be like, 'I don't care where I go.' But now I have the kids, and it's like, 'Ok, what's the best fit?'"

Back in July the Cavs and Smith remained "apart" on contract discussions, and it seems like now in September, things haven't really moved along. However both sides at least want the same thing, plus James has advocated for Smith and the Cavs to come to an agreement. And since James' words holds a lot of weight around the organization, it wouldn't be surprising if Smith is right and he re-signs in Cleveland relatively soon.

My Monsters won a title

He also won a title with the Monsters [img]https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=57DF4A85[/img]

I'd do this trade in a heartbeat, Shump even at his very best is barely average, the defense imo is a push, maybe with iggy still being slightly better on the ball and he's worlds ahead offensively. Shump has turned into a headcase...if he thinks he's going to sit for the national anthem, i won't be in cleveland..that i'm sure of. Between that, the DUI for drugs, the dumb rap "career" for a guy that averages 3 points a game...at 40 million dollars...i'm actually suprised he's still here.

Vegas releases 2016-17 NBA season over/under win totals for every team
How many wins do the oddsmakers expect each team to take home this season?
Matt Moore

The Westgate Superbook in Las Vegas revealed its over/under win totals for the 2016-17 NBA season Tuesday, and it's time to start poring over the odds. Remember, these odds are influenced by expected action and designed to get equal money, so it's not a pure reflection of what oddsmakers believe will occur.

First, the numbers:

TEAM O/U WINS
Atlanta Hawks 43.5
Boston Celtics 51.5
Brooklyn Nets 20.5
Charlotte Hornets 39.5
Chicago Bulls 38.5
Cleveland Cavaliers 56.5
Dallas Mavericks 39.5
Denver Nuggets 34.5
Detroit Pistons 45.5
Golden State Warriors 66.5
Houston Rockets 41.5
Indiana Pacers 43.5
Los Angeles Clippers 53.5
Los Angeles Lakers 24.5
Memphis Grizzlies 43.5
Miami Heat 36.5
Milwaukee Bucks 39.5
Minnesota Timberwolves 41.5
New Orleans Pelicans 36.5
New York Knicks 38.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 45.5
Orlando Magic 36.5
Philadelphia 76ers 27.5
Phoenix Suns 26.5
Portland Trail Blazers 46.5
Sacramento Kings 32.5
San Antonio Spurs 56.5
Toronto Raptors 49.5
Utah Jazz 47.5
Washington Wizards 42.5

Notes and reactions:

The Warriors at "only" 66.5 seems like easy money for the over. Even with a diminished bench, and having to get used to Kevin Durant, plus a likelihood that they will value rest more than they did last season in pursuing the 73-win mark, this team still took a 73-win core and added Kevin Durant. There's a six game cushion for them to drop from last season and still hit the over. In related news, Warriors to win over 73 games is plus-500 and that's terrific value.

The Spurs at 56.5 seems high after losing Tim Duncan and Boris Diaw, but it's San Antonio, so you have to stay away as they are immortal warlocks who are not of this realm.

The Sixers are at 27.5, which is 7.5 wins higher than their over/under mark last year .... and 17.5 more than they won last season. The Sixers should be way better with Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons, but this is still a dreck of a core, who may trade Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel. Twenty-eight wins seems like Kilimanjaro.

That Chicago Bulls mark of 38.5 seems tempting to fade the Bulls on. There are a lot of ways that team could go sideways.

Vegas almost always goes low on the Grizzlies, in part due to the low amount of action on them. Last year was an exception thanks to an unheralded and unprecedented amount of injuries. (Memphis had 25 players on roster throughout the year, an all-time NBA record.) There are injury concerns this year, but for them to go below 43.5, there would have to be season-ending injuries to at least two of Marc Gasol, Mike Conley, and Chandler Parsons. That could certainly happen, but there's also a good possibility of them clicking and rolling to way above that.

Can you feel the Utah Jazz hype? At 47.5 wins, that's 7.5 over their win total from last season, and puts them in line to scrape 50 wins. The Jazz are a trendy choice, and for good reason. It's probably a stay-away, however, given that 47 is right about where they could land. Too close for comfort.

The Nets have taken the mantle from the Sixers for the lowest projected win total at just 20.5. Given Brook Lopez's foot injuries, that seems like a safe under bet.

The Lakers at 24.5 seems like a stay-away. A roster that young shouldn't be able to go for any more, but it's low enough that even a good month could derail it.

Denver was a steal last year at 27, and even with a seven-win jump year over year, 34.5 feels soft. This is a team with a lot of talent and good coaching. The playoffs are unlikely but 35 wins, if they can just avoid the nasty injury luck they've had the past three years, should be easily obtainable.

I love the Cleveland under. The defending champions are likely to laze through the regular season even more than they did last year at 57 wins. LeBron James might leave for three months to hang out in Miami. Love this under, as I did last year's 57.5 though that was obviously really close.

Oklahoma City has a lower over/under than Portland.

Take the over on the Hawks. Even after losing Al Horford, Vegas always cuts them low. It's easy money. Take the over.

The Celtics have a higher over/under than the Raptors, which is reflected in their narrow advantage in odds for the division title as well.

That's a whole lot of teams under the 50 win mark, although only 6 teams last year did, 10 the year before that, kinda weird. Guess the Warriors took a bunch of wins away from teams.

Only total that really looks good to me is the Raptors over. I think they can get to 50 wins this year.

Celtics will be overhyped once again. We will sweep them in the playoffs just like every other eastern conference team that gets overhyped by Tim Legler. Who will his trendy pick be this year?

I like the Celts to get to the ECF. Final 4 in the east: Celts, Cavs, Bulls, Knicks (just what the NBA wants)

Cavs over Knicks
Celts over Bulls

Cavs over Celts

Warriors over Cavs

I feel like the Bulls will really suck. They have zero shooting from their backcourt. They'all be great defensively, but they'll be like the early 2010 Celtics whose legs gave out.

the Knicks?

Are we even sure their knees will hold up half the season?

All time great HOF class

So Bosh is apparently out of Miami (they failed him in the physical, but really didn't want to pay him)

Wonder if he'd be an option for a vet minimum

I don't think it matters if he failed the physical or not. NBA contracts are guaranteed. He would have to fail a physical from an independent doctor and be declared disabled for his salary to get cleared from the books.

If he sits for the entire season they can get his contract off the books, but would still have to pay him.

They won't release him, that would mean they would still have to pay his salary.

Yes, but they would save the money on any cap tax and such, so there would be some savings. But like I said, it's an independent doctor that both Bosh and the team agree on that would have to sign off on that. So it's not like the Heat can just wink-wink their way out of it.

Why would the Heat agree to that?

It's a collective bargaining thing. It's meant to protect the team if a player breaks his neck or something and suddenly can no longer play.

In order to get his salary off the books, an independent doctor (that both team and player agree on) has to declare him "disabled", but it appears he would still get paid whatever his contract value is. The Heat would save money on any tax penalties, since they are over the cap.

They would probably "release" him at that point to make roster room, but they are on the hook for the salary until the doctor signs off on it. The funny part is that apparently, if Bosh signs with another team and plays 10 games, then the doctor's ruling goes out the window, and the Heat are back on the hook for that salary being on the books.

In other news, it looks like Mo Williams is retiring: https://twitter.com/JasonLloydABJ/status/780455481689145344

Sorry. I think we are in agreement on this. When I said they would still have to pay him I meant that they will still have to write checks to Chris Bosh. When I said he is off the books I meant that he would not count against the cap, luxury tax, etc.

I think Chris Bosh is done. He and Pat Riley are not even on speaking terms.

Crazy that the Heat Big Three is already toast. James went back to Miami, Wade is in Chicago, and Bosh is done because of a medical issue. Things change quickly.

Yeah, when I was saying that the Heat would save money, I only only referring to the the luxury tax that they wouldn't have to pay on the contract.

Interesting enough, Mo Williams retiring sort of falls into the same sort of rules. As a retired player, he doesn't count as a roster spot, but the Cavs are still on the hook for the salary. They can release him, but it wouldn't serve any purpose other than to let him play for another team (they pay the old contract regardless). Williams can actually file for a "voluntary retirement", which would cancel his contract obligation for the Cavs, but he wouldn't be able to re-sign with another team for one year.